National Forum

Empires Collapse From Within

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "We will see."
?

nicko94 (Mayo) - Posts: 53 - 15/08/2021 15:01:06    2371530

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Replying To MesAmis:  "I think people's favoritism of Kerry is based on their performances against Dublin in 2019.

Both performances would have had Dublin beaten out the gate yesterday."
Kerry have the pedigree of 37 All Ireland titles. If Kerry are in the Final, which seems very likely, i'd expect them to perform. Mayo will have to play very well to beat them. A Kerry team won't flop in an All Ireland Final. Too much tradition there.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1765 - 15/08/2021 15:11:48    2371537

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Where are all the little minds now? Those who proclaimed vociferously from the rooftops that football was dead. That the big, bad, blue machine had killed it! Oh, where are they, indeed?

I hope they feel as silly today as they have sounded over the past 3-4 years. It's a good job that most others didn't adopt that attitude, or the Dubs would do 10-in-a-row, as these doomsdayers predicted. It's healthy for the game that Dublin have been beaten, and a nice positive side-effect is that it might shut up these whinge-merchants once and for all.

Suddenly, there'll be nothing at all wrong now with football in places like An Riocht and An Mhi from this day out. It is suddenly Lazarus-like after coming back to life.

The Dubs didn't kill Gaelic football you fools. They made it. See the level of intensity at which Mayo played at, and won, yesterday. Well, they had to get up to that level to down Dublin. Hopefully Mayo complete the job now. It'd be a shame after killing the monster that neither Kerry or Tyrone could ever get near over the last decade, if Mayo now left it after them for either of these two counties to pick up. Over the past 6-7 years, Gaelic football has reached an unprecedented level of skill, athleticism, and intelligence. This fine Dublin team has played a huge part in that.

And when they fell on the sword, it was most fitting that the sword was in the hand of their greatest challenger during their reign of supremacy.

Long live the King. The King is dead!"
One swallow does not make a summer.

Outside of Dublin, Mayo are the best funded county in Ireland so I'd be shocked if they weren't competitive. That doesn't mean that all is well in football... the '6 in a row' Dublin squad are one of the best to have ever played the game, no question. A delight to watch. But Dublin & Mayo are practically semi-professional outfits, 30 odd strong backroom teams etc. Riches that other counties dream of. The ethos of the game is not about the have's and have nots but the way it's going, it won't be long before all the fun is gone in the championship... some say it already had.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 397 - 15/08/2021 15:29:48    2371545

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Replying To Young_gael:  "Oh to be a fly on the wall in Jim Gavin's living room tonight...
It's finally happened, 6 titles in a row, a championship run of over 40 straight victories... finally the titan has been slain. If I were to be brutally honest whilst watching the Meath/Dublin game 3/4 weeks ago there were serious chinks in the armour then, the signs were there. In fact I would argue this has been slowly coming for two years and a slow seeping decline suddenly turned into a freefall this evening. I now can conclude two things:

1) Gavin and Gilroy to an extent were geniuses. I do not wish to bash the current Dublin management, only to say the psychological and tactical decline in Dublin since mid 2020 has been alarmingly quick. They have reverted, in my opinion to the Dublin of the 00s and the Dublin of the 90s: Immense talent but a liability to themselves. They imploded tonight. I was finding myself being reminded of Pillar's Dublin and Tommy Lyon's Dublin. The ebb and flow of the game, the ill-discipline, the cards. It's true, empires truly collapse from within.

2) Mayo proved me wrong. I have to be honest and with the absolute utmost respect to Mayo, I never rated them. I still dont until they win a title. But they proved me wrong tonight and they have blown football back open again. If this doesent inspire every other county then nothing will. Well done to Mayo and the heartiest of congratulations, and I'll be cheering you on in the final."
Tbh and I'm fed up saying this the last 6 years but the Dublin team of the last 10 years or so were a golden generation. As 1 by 1 they have retired the team hasnt done as well. Entirely to be expected. History will remember them as 1 of the best football teams that ever played. Maybe the best.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5541 - 15/08/2021 15:46:11    2371552

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Replying To wexico15:  "9 changes from 2015 final to 2020 so this narrative that it was the same team didn't stack up.

Evan Comerford has the makings of a brilliant keeper but the ice cold composure of Cluxton was missed today and arguably the 1st time the loss of McCaffrey came to roost."
Not exactly the same team for sure but no team stays exactly the same year on year. Some retired after 2018 and 1019. But more than half of them have now retired. And while their replacements are good and could well win Sam next year they arent as great as the lads they are replacing.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5541 - 15/08/2021 15:50:06    2371556

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "I don't care if you reply to me or not. Give the 13 people, who as of 04.30 am on 15/08/21, upticked me an answer?"
20 now Ulsterman

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5541 - 15/08/2021 15:50:50    2371557

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Replying To Square_B:  "One swallow does not make a summer.

Outside of Dublin, Mayo are the best funded county in Ireland so I'd be shocked if they weren't competitive. That doesn't mean that all is well in football... the '6 in a row' Dublin squad are one of the best to have ever played the game, no question. A delight to watch. But Dublin & Mayo are practically semi-professional outfits, 30 odd strong backroom teams etc. Riches that other counties dream of. The ethos of the game is not about the have's and have nots but the way it's going, it won't be long before all the fun is gone in the championship... some say it already had."
Another reason that again highlights the need for senior, inter and junior AI championships, like that operate at club level in almost every county; a tried an proven system. Was there ever any fun in championship for teams like Clare, on days when they got 36-point hammerings at the hands of Kerry? Let the semi-pro counties, Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo, Kildare, Meath, Donegal, and 2-3 more, operate at senior level. Let's not be asking teams to punch above their weight division.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1270 - 15/08/2021 16:01:21    2371564

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Another reason that again highlights the need for senior, inter and junior AI championships, like that operate at club level in almost every county; a tried an proven system. Was there ever any fun in championship for teams like Clare, on days when they got 36-point hammerings at the hands of Kerry? Let the semi-pro counties, Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo, Kildare, Meath, Donegal, and 2-3 more, operate at senior level. Let's not be asking teams to punch above their weight division."
A tried and trusted system for who? Counties who already have riches and resources? That system has been such a success in hurling...

If the GAA are earnest about helping counties outside Division 1 & saving the football championship, counties need basic assistance to help increase game standards and particularly in counties where the commercial fundraising opportunities are not as freely available as Dublin for example. No one is a lesser GAA person just because you happened to be born in the wrong county.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 397 - 15/08/2021 16:34:00    2371585

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Replying To Square_B:  "A tried and trusted system for who? Counties who already have riches and resources? That system has been such a success in hurling...

If the GAA are earnest about helping counties outside Division 1 & saving the football championship, counties need basic assistance to help increase game standards and particularly in counties where the commercial fundraising opportunities are not as freely available as Dublin for example. No one is a lesser GAA person just because you happened to be born in the wrong county."
Tried and trusted at club level, is what I said. And yes, it does work well in hurling. You seldom see completely lop-sided scores in the hurling championship. Actually, there's almost only ever a puck of the ball between the top seven or eight teams. That's why we have a great, very watchable hurling championship. The graded system in hurling is a fine blueprint to base a proper football championship on!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1270 - 15/08/2021 17:44:05    2371598

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Replying To sam1884:  "All this talk of finance etc etc should now seen for what it was. Over the last 6 years Dublin were simply the best team to ever play the game. They were always going to fall into the pack and were never going to win for evermore. Well done to the Dublin team and well done to Mayo on their fantastic win tonight. The football championship is back and the domination is over. The task now is for Leinster counties to get their houses in order and challenge Dublin over the next few years."
One swallow doesn't make a summer. This was Dublin's first championship loss in years and years and it came after extra time. Personally I think 2 Covid impacted year's has messed up Dublin's preparations which is part of the reason why their standards have maybe dropped off a bit. Dublin are able to put in place a better backroom team than anyone else so Covid interruptions to this made the championships more of a lottery than other seasons. In the next 10 seasons I'd say it's still a probability Dublin will win the majority of the All Ireland's. The growth of the GAA in Dublin in last 20 years is a success for the GAA but it makes sense, when you look at Dublin's huge population where this will leave the inter county championship.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1060 - 15/08/2021 18:14:36    2371613

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Tried and trusted at club level, is what I said. And yes, it does work well in hurling. You seldom see completely lop-sided scores in the hurling championship. Actually, there's almost only ever a puck of the ball between the top seven or eight teams. That's why we have a great, very watchable hurling championship. The graded system in hurling is a fine blueprint to base a proper football championship on!"
Oh definitely a fine blueprint to allow the GAA to give up on the development of football in weaker counties that's for sure. As I've said, no one is a lessor GAA person because they happen to be born in the wrong county.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 397 - 15/08/2021 18:57:04    2371633

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Where are all the little minds now? Those who proclaimed vociferously from the rooftops that football was dead. That the big, bad, blue machine had killed it! Oh, where are they, indeed?

I hope they feel as silly today as they have sounded over the past 3-4 years. It's a good job that most others didn't adopt that attitude, or the Dubs would do 10-in-a-row, as these doomsdayers predicted. It's healthy for the game that Dublin have been beaten, and a nice positive side-effect is that it might shut up these whinge-merchants once and for all.

Suddenly, there'll be nothing at all wrong now with football in places like An Riocht and An Mhi from this day out. It is suddenly Lazarus-like after coming back to life.

The Dubs didn't kill Gaelic football you fools. They made it. See the level of intensity at which Mayo played at, and won, yesterday. Well, they had to get up to that level to down Dublin. Hopefully Mayo complete the job now. It'd be a shame after killing the monster that neither Kerry or Tyrone could ever get near over the last decade, if Mayo now left it after them for either of these two counties to pick up. Over the past 6-7 years, Gaelic football has reached an unprecedented level of skill, athleticism, and intelligence. This fine Dublin team has played a huge part in that.

And when they fell on the sword, it was most fitting that the sword was in the hand of their greatest challenger during their reign of supremacy.

Long live the King. The King is dead!"
Oh cone on .
If you are going to use a phrase or a quote then use it properly.
The phrase is:

The king is dead, long live the king!

not the other way round.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5496 - 15/08/2021 20:10:25    2371676

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Replying To Jackeen:  "Like I said on another thread, people have been waiting since 2014 to unleash all sorts of nastiness when Dublin get beaten. Its to be expected. Especially on forums like this. Thankfully I'm not on twitter but by all accounts it's a dumpster for all sorts of vile crap. Why would you bother like?"
While I was happy to see Mayo win yesterday, all we can read into result was Dublin lost a championship match, they have not gone from one of the most respected/best teams in history of the GAA, to all that is wrong with the game in the space of 90 minutes. No excuses for some of the challanges in yesterdays game, however there is no team can claim the moral high ground As you say the usual suspects are lining up to vent their rage and spite on all things related to Dublin football, nothing new there, we see it in all walks of life, get to the top and the trolls come out of the woodwork. Any talk of collapse of an empire is just wishful thinking. Will Dublin win Leinster next year? I hope not, but almost certain they will, can they regain their crown very possibly.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 1815 - 15/08/2021 20:31:00    2371687

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Where are all the little minds now? Those who proclaimed vociferously from the rooftops that football was dead. That the big, bad, blue machine had killed it! Oh, where are they, indeed?

I hope they feel as silly today as they have sounded over the past 3-4 years. It's a good job that most others didn't adopt that attitude, or the Dubs would do 10-in-a-row, as these doomsdayers predicted. It's healthy for the game that Dublin have been beaten, and a nice positive side-effect is that it might shut up these whinge-merchants once and for all.

Suddenly, there'll be nothing at all wrong now with football in places like An Riocht and An Mhi from this day out. It is suddenly Lazarus-like after coming back to life.

The Dubs didn't kill Gaelic football you fools. They made it. See the level of intensity at which Mayo played at, and won, yesterday. Well, they had to get up to that level to down Dublin. Hopefully Mayo complete the job now. It'd be a shame after killing the monster that neither Kerry or Tyrone could ever get near over the last decade, if Mayo now left it after them for either of these two counties to pick up. Over the past 6-7 years, Gaelic football has reached an unprecedented level of skill, athleticism, and intelligence. This fine Dublin team has played a huge part in that.

And when they fell on the sword, it was most fitting that the sword was in the hand of their greatest challenger during their reign of supremacy.

Long live the King. The King is dead!"
Steady on steady on, now it's you whose jumping prematurely to conclusions no?
Saturdays defeat has thankfully put paid to any notion of Dublin being split,for now at least, but football isn't suddenly competitive and funding isn't all of a sudden irrelevant simply because they didnt quite manage to win 7 in a row. (Fifteen years ago winning 2 in a row was thought to be almost impossible.)
If 45 championship consecutive wins doesn't prove the system is wrong then nor does one championship defeat prove the system is right surely?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1263 - 15/08/2021 22:30:59    2371745

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Very few people begrudged Dublin their first All Ireland in 2011 after a gap of 16 years. Even when they won a few there wasn't a lot of hostility. However in recent years the All Ireland has been a coronation and repetitively boring. Many Dubs became arrogant, entitled and dismissive of the wider concerns about football. The media shamefully drank out of Dublin's cup and worshipped at their altar and for that they should hang their heads in shame. Finally the GAA hierarchy in Croke Park should now take their collective head out of their arse and realise Gaelic Games aren't just about Dublin."
Dublin are a long way from finished.
Mayo only got to extra time because the Dubs stopped playing and were handpassing around in their own square.

They will learn from that and be back again. Could still win 50% of the next ten all Irelands

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 987 - 16/08/2021 08:06:04    2371817

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Dublin are a long way from finished.
Mayo only got to extra time because the Dubs stopped playing and were handpassing around in their own square.

They will learn from that and be back again. Could still win 50% of the next ten all Irelands"
Good post and yes I think you're right.

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 757 - 16/08/2021 11:54:08    2371910

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Oh how I agree with what you said!!

JulianMackay (USA) - Posts: 2 - 16/08/2021 12:03:24    2371913

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Steady on steady on, now it's you whose jumping prematurely to conclusions no?
Saturdays defeat has thankfully put paid to any notion of Dublin being split,for now at least, but football isn't suddenly competitive and funding isn't all of a sudden irrelevant simply because they didnt quite manage to win 7 in a row. (Fifteen years ago winning 2 in a row was thought to be almost impossible.)
If 45 championship consecutive wins doesn't prove the system is wrong then nor does one championship defeat prove the system is right surely?"
Well said. You are absolutely correct. There are inequities in finding that quite simply have to be addressed.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5796 - 16/08/2021 13:40:08    2371967

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "This post will age like milk.

Dublin will do a 5 in a row, starting next year.

There is no stopping this juggernaut. Last night was an inevitability, but an exception nonetheless. Not the norm."
Can't see it. Will they win more? Absolutely, but can't see 5 in a row (or 11 in 12 as you seem to be calling it). This Dublin team will win more, but not every year like that. That team they had and the players they lost are quite literally once in a century types which came together in one team at the one time which will not be seen or repeated for a long time. They'll have great players coming through, but so will other counties and it won't be to the sustained talent and standard than went before. Things are cyclical and that'll be the last of many All Ireland in a row I feel. I cannot see them dominating as they did, but will still be there or thereabouts and will add a few more here and there.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1887 - 16/08/2021 14:26:20    2371988

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Where are all the little minds now? Those who proclaimed vociferously from the rooftops that football was dead. That the big, bad, blue machine had killed it! Oh, where are they, indeed?

I hope they feel as silly today as they have sounded over the past 3-4 years. It's a good job that most others didn't adopt that attitude, or the Dubs would do 10-in-a-row, as these doomsdayers predicted. It's healthy for the game that Dublin have been beaten, and a nice positive side-effect is that it might shut up these whinge-merchants once and for all.

Suddenly, there'll be nothing at all wrong now with football in places like An Riocht and An Mhi from this day out. It is suddenly Lazarus-like after coming back to life.

The Dubs didn't kill Gaelic football you fools. They made it. See the level of intensity at which Mayo played at, and won, yesterday. Well, they had to get up to that level to down Dublin. Hopefully Mayo complete the job now. It'd be a shame after killing the monster that neither Kerry or Tyrone could ever get near over the last decade, if Mayo now left it after them for either of these two counties to pick up. Over the past 6-7 years, Gaelic football has reached an unprecedented level of skill, athleticism, and intelligence. This fine Dublin team has played a huge part in that.

And when they fell on the sword, it was most fitting that the sword was in the hand of their greatest challenger during their reign of supremacy.

Long live the King. The King is dead!"
They made it....ha.

Thats a laugh.... they ruined it with the boring possession based stuff, found myself turning games off it was that bad. I dont care if they won or not it was terrible football

Redlouth (Louth) - Posts: 73 - 16/08/2021 14:40:16    2371998

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