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Empires Collapse From Within

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Oh to be a fly on the wall in Jim Gavin's living room tonight...
It's finally happened, 6 titles in a row, a championship run of over 40 straight victories... finally the titan has been slain. If I were to be brutally honest whilst watching the Meath/Dublin game 3/4 weeks ago there were serious chinks in the armour then, the signs were there. In fact I would argue this has been slowly coming for two years and a slow seeping decline suddenly turned into a freefall this evening. I now can conclude two things:

1) Gavin and Gilroy to an extent were geniuses. I do not wish to bash the current Dublin management, only to say the psychological and tactical decline in Dublin since mid 2020 has been alarmingly quick. They have reverted, in my opinion to the Dublin of the 00s and the Dublin of the 90s: Immense talent but a liability to themselves. They imploded tonight. I was finding myself being reminded of Pillar's Dublin and Tommy Lyon's Dublin. The ebb and flow of the game, the ill-discipline, the cards. It's true, empires truly collapse from within.

2) Mayo proved me wrong. I have to be honest and with the absolute utmost respect to Mayo, I never rated them. I still dont until they win a title. But they proved me wrong tonight and they have blown football back open again. If this doesent inspire every other county then nothing will. Well done to Mayo and the heartiest of congratulations, and I'll be cheering you on in the final.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 14/08/2021 21:00:13    2371071

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Very few people begrudged Dublin their first All Ireland in 2011 after a gap of 16 years. Even when they won a few there wasn't a lot of hostility. However in recent years the All Ireland has been a coronation and repetitively boring. Many Dubs became arrogant, entitled and dismissive of the wider concerns about football. The media shamefully drank out of Dublin's cup and worshipped at their altar and for that they should hang their heads in shame. Finally the GAA hierarchy in Croke Park should now take their collective head out of their arse and realise Gaelic Games aren't just about Dublin.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9525 - 14/08/2021 22:08:48    2371174

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Well said Young Gael, I couldnt disagree most of what you say is true. As for ulsterman, not worth replying to.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4772 - 14/08/2021 22:26:49    2371198

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All this talk of finance etc etc should now seen for what it was. Over the last 6 years Dublin were simply the best team to ever play the game. They were always going to fall into the pack and were never going to win for evermore. Well done to the Dublin team and well done to Mayo on their fantastic win tonight. The football championship is back and the domination is over. The task now is for Leinster counties to get their houses in order and challenge Dublin over the next few years.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 943 - 14/08/2021 23:02:57    2371235

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Well I hope you're not including me in that group Ulsterman, I am genuinely happy for Mayo and I think it's good for the game. I gave them a good chance before throw-in.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8372 - 14/08/2021 23:19:16    2371244

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Very few people begrudged Dublin their first All Ireland in 2011 after a gap of 16 years. Even when they won a few there wasn't a lot of hostility. However in recent years the All Ireland has been a coronation and repetitively boring. Many Dubs became arrogant, entitled and dismissive of the wider concerns about football. The media shamefully drank out of Dublin's cup and worshipped at their altar and for that they should hang their heads in shame. Finally the GAA hierarchy in Croke Park should now take their collective head out of their arse and realise Gaelic Games aren't just about Dublin."
Excellent post

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 14/08/2021 23:40:29    2371253

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Dublin just aren't as good as they were.

The writing has been on the wall this year for everyone to see if they cared to look.

You can't keep winning indefinitely. You eventually get caught.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13493 - 15/08/2021 00:00:12    2371263

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Replying To realdub:  "Well I hope you're not including me in that group Ulsterman, I am genuinely happy for Mayo and I think it's good for the game. I gave them a good chance before throw-in."
Me too. Ulsterman would be stupid not to recognise the incredible hard work that this Dublin squad have invested in their personal development and the bar that they have set. Their personal commitment to the sport and sacrifices are unparalleled. Look back upon their successes in the last 7-8 years, and even in 2011, they have been involved in the very best AI series games that the sport has ever seen. They will rightly go down in history as the best panel ever to play the game. End of an era but the Jacks will be back.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4497 - 15/08/2021 00:20:56    2371272

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Replying To MesAmis:  "Dublin just aren't as good as they were.

The writing has been on the wall this year for everyone to see if they cared to look.

You can't keep winning indefinitely. You eventually get caught."
That's true but I did think that Dublin began to lose their cool towards the end, 3 black cards, lucky to avoid a red or possibly two, also without being a body language expert and not taking away from mayo but it looked like their heads dropped once mayo went in front. They lost so many 50 /50 balls in extra time.
I found this strange too,as I read Dessies book, "Tangled up in blue", and in it he talks extensively on the importance of psychology in sport.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1263 - 15/08/2021 00:41:06    2371282

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Replying To sam1884:  "All this talk of finance etc etc should now seen for what it was. Over the last 6 years Dublin were simply the best team to ever play the game. They were always going to fall into the pack and were never going to win for evermore. Well done to the Dublin team and well done to Mayo on their fantastic win tonight. The football championship is back and the domination is over. The task now is for Leinster counties to get their houses in order and challenge Dublin over the next few years."
9 changes from 2015 final to 2020 so this narrative that it was the same team didn't stack up.

Evan Comerford has the makings of a brilliant keeper but the ice cold composure of Cluxton was missed today and arguably the 1st time the loss of McCaffrey came to roost.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 15/08/2021 01:07:05    2371293

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Replying To arock:  "Well said Young Gael, I couldnt disagree most of what you say is true. As for ulsterman, not worth replying to."
I don't care if you reply to me or not. Give the 13 people, who as of 04.30 am on 15/08/21, upticked me an answer?

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9525 - 15/08/2021 04:40:46    2371314

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I just think that it's very hard to keep going back to the well year after year when you have to fight battles of that intensity in the latter stages. Dublin are an exceptional side but every dog has its day and yesterday was ours.

I would not write them off next year, particularly if some of the recently retired players can be persuaded to return to the fold. I'm sure one or two will have watched that at home and not wanted things to end in that fashion.

A word for Dublin's fans: I watched the game heavily outnumbered by them and must commend them on their graciousness at the finish.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2138 - 15/08/2021 08:17:07    2371329

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Replying To mayotyroneman:  "Excellent post"
How was it boring? There was very little between them and Kerry in any of the finals

Shocs07 (Limerick) - Posts: 259 - 15/08/2021 08:30:25    2371334

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Dublin have gone back slightly. But let's not ignore the fact that it's primarily Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone (apart from covid) have started to get things right as well. The clearest was good for Mayo. The Cork ambush was good for Kerry. When the Tyrone Kerry match was first announced, and before all this depressing covid stuff got in the way, I was worried that Tyrone were meeting Kerry. I'd have preferred to be meeting Dublin, as I figured a fully fit Tyrone would beat them, but I figured that even a full strength Tyrone team would not beat Kerry.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 15/08/2021 09:01:37    2371339

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Replying To Galway9801:  "That's true but I did think that Dublin began to lose their cool towards the end, 3 black cards, lucky to avoid a red or possibly two, also without being a body language expert and not taking away from mayo but it looked like their heads dropped once mayo went in front. They lost so many 50 /50 balls in extra time.
I found this strange too,as I read Dessies book, "Tangled up in blue", and in it he talks extensively on the importance of psychology in sport."
I think you can over analyse the indiscipline, Dublin have played loads of big games down a man (or two even) in the past decade. The difference was they were a better team overall then.

The new players that have come in aren't as good a group as those they are replacing. And the players who are still there aren't playing as well this year as they have in the past.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13493 - 15/08/2021 09:21:45    2371345

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Replying To Galway9801:  "That's true but I did think that Dublin began to lose their cool towards the end, 3 black cards, lucky to avoid a red or possibly two, also without being a body language expert and not taking away from mayo but it looked like their heads dropped once mayo went in front. They lost so many 50 /50 balls in extra time.
I found this strange too,as I read Dessies book, "Tangled up in blue", and in it he talks extensively on the importance of psychology in sport."
The thing is though, Mayo have beaten Dublin before in semi-finals so it wasn't a complete surprise. If it were a final, then it would have been the biggest surprise in 70 years! I hope they do it against Kerry, it would be wonderful for Mayo and for Connacht.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1372 - 15/08/2021 09:31:44    2371350

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Replying To Young_gael:  "Oh to be a fly on the wall in Jim Gavin's living room tonight...
It's finally happened, 6 titles in a row, a championship run of over 40 straight victories... finally the titan has been slain. If I were to be brutally honest whilst watching the Meath/Dublin game 3/4 weeks ago there were serious chinks in the armour then, the signs were there. In fact I would argue this has been slowly coming for two years and a slow seeping decline suddenly turned into a freefall this evening. I now can conclude two things:

1) Gavin and Gilroy to an extent were geniuses. I do not wish to bash the current Dublin management, only to say the psychological and tactical decline in Dublin since mid 2020 has been alarmingly quick. They have reverted, in my opinion to the Dublin of the 00s and the Dublin of the 90s: Immense talent but a liability to themselves. They imploded tonight. I was finding myself being reminded of Pillar's Dublin and Tommy Lyon's Dublin. The ebb and flow of the game, the ill-discipline, the cards. It's true, empires truly collapse from within.

2) Mayo proved me wrong. I have to be honest and with the absolute utmost respect to Mayo, I never rated them. I still dont until they win a title. But they proved me wrong tonight and they have blown football back open again. If this doesent inspire every other county then nothing will. Well done to Mayo and the heartiest of congratulations, and I'll be cheering you on in the final."
This post will age like milk.

Dublin will do a 5 in a row, starting next year.

There is no stopping this juggernaut. Last night was an inevitability, but an exception nonetheless. Not the norm.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 15/08/2021 09:33:52    2371352

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A football team just lost a match (after extra time) forget this 'empire' guff. As always win or lose players will go back to their clubs and for the lucky few can hope to represent their county again next year. There is a nastiness to this thread which is completely against the ideals of the GAA. Time for some to grow up.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4550 - 15/08/2021 09:41:07    2371354

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Replying To essmac:  "Dublin have gone back slightly. But let's not ignore the fact that it's primarily Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone (apart from covid) have started to get things right as well. The clearest was good for Mayo. The Cork ambush was good for Kerry. When the Tyrone Kerry match was first announced, and before all this depressing covid stuff got in the way, I was worried that Tyrone were meeting Kerry. I'd have preferred to be meeting Dublin, as I figured a fully fit Tyrone would beat them, but I figured that even a full strength Tyrone team would not beat Kerry."
Good post.

I wouldn't have been confident in the Dubs against a fully fit and prepared Tyrone.

Dublin had a look of a team that would be beaten by the first decent side they met this year.

I think of the 3 provincial champions we could have faced I thought we had the best chance of beating Mayo in fact.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13493 - 15/08/2021 10:04:46    2371364

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First half was like watching a game from last 10
Years. Could have sworn I'd seen it all before.
Couldn't get myself to watch the 2nd half.
But sometimes in life things change.
Mayo awoke. Men became legends to dethrone
the kings. Stuff of fairytale. The heart of GAA
stories apart. History would not stop Mayo.
Let the world watch on before our very eyes.
Brilliant stuff Mayo. Now for the Sam?
Will need another performance the same to
beat Kerry/Tyrone.

hunchback (Antrim) - Posts: 55 - 15/08/2021 10:18:23    2371367

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