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Replying To Viking66:  "It's not an ignorant banner. You seem to be the only 1 offended by it! Are you a West Ham fan by any chance?"
It doesn't offend me. I don't like it's origins. What next? Chanting "the anglo celt is coming home" on hill 16. It's of bad taste. I don't follow any soccer team and to tell you the truth I wasn't aware of there being a rivalry between West ham and Millwall.

thegadfly (Cavan) - Posts: 262 - 29/07/2021 18:26:13    2365581

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Replying To thegadfly:  "This thread should have been pulled?
Why so?
I know why your saying that. It's because the truth hurts and it's hit a raw nerve.
I'm not trolling Tyrone. I'm calling a spade a spade and you don't like it."
I'll tell you why it should have been pulled, a lot of lives were lost in the north because the right to their Irishness was denied.Did you by any chance seet the documentary on RTE last night on the Ballymurphy massacre , if you did you might think again before posting such rubbish.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 176 - 29/07/2021 18:39:34    2365587

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "I'll tell you why it should have been pulled, a lot of lives were lost in the north because the right to their Irishness was denied.Did you by any chance seet the documentary on RTE last night on the Ballymurphy massacre , if you did you might think again before posting such rubbish."
What has that got to do with this thread? There's absolutely no correlation. Now your just trying to blur what I'm saying to take the heat away from the crux of the argument.
As I said already, I'm a republican.

thegadfly (Cavan) - Posts: 262 - 29/07/2021 18:51:40    2365591

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Replying To thegadfly:  "It doesn't offend me. I don't like it's origins. What next? Chanting "the anglo celt is coming home" on hill 16. It's of bad taste. I don't follow any soccer team and to tell you the truth I wasn't aware of there being a rivalry between West ham and Millwall."
You said it was ignorant so I thought you were offended. What is this thread all about then? Some young fellas brought a non offensive banner to a game and now there is a long thread about it?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3523 - 29/07/2021 18:55:29    2365592

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Awk bless those serial winners of trophies having to listen to neutrals wanting the underdog to beat them. That's terrible abuse altogether. You never see that in sport do you! Did any of them go to matches as proud GAA people and have to listen to jeers from so called fellow GAA supporters or opposition players like "We dont pay our taxes to the queen" or "away back up to Britain with ye" on top of all the constant bigotry recieved from the other side of the community the rest of the week for daring to wear GAA gear in public places or play hurling in the local park? Or have the RUC constantly harassing bus loads of players and supporters travelling to matches for the same reasons as the other 26 counties who could travel freely without any danger? I think if the 6 county hate only extended as far as on field success you would never have had the seige mentality that existed back when Armagh and Tyrone were lifting Sam. Perhaps take that kindergarten advice you gave and apply it to yourself if that's the best you can do."
Not once in this forum have I ever denied the abuse that ulster gaa people have been subjected to, I've read Mickey Hartes book, I've read Joe kernans book, I've always praised ulster gaa fans as being very good for travelling to games on big numbers, and I've always acknowledged how difficult it is to promote games on the North in the face of anti gaa sentiment, I don't even know what that aspect of your reply that has to do with my post.
Please don't pretend to have a monopoly on begrudgery, I can count on one hand how many times I've heard anti ulster bile being spouted here in Galway at least,( even on the extremely extremely odd occasion when young men from ulster come down for a night out and end up throwing their weight around) to be quite honest I've personally never heard it, except for when it comes to blanket defense football, in which case the criticism is fair imo, and not rooted in bigotry,, Kilkenny, kerry, and ESPECIALLY Dublin get it ten times worse than ye (and the dubs got it even when they weren't much good).
It must give you a great feeling of self righteousness, believing that everyone in the 26 counties hate the North.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 957 - 29/07/2021 19:31:03    2365601

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Replying To Viking66:  "You said it was ignorant so I thought you were offended. What is this thread all about then? Some young fellas brought a non offensive banner to a game and now there is a long thread about it?"
Yes, I did wonder about the merits of starting a special thread concerning 0.001% of Tyrone supporters unless there is an underlying motive. Must admit to never seeing this flag , doesn't feature on TV coverage as far as I know.

Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 412 - 29/07/2021 19:34:04    2365602

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Replying To Viking66:  "You said it was ignorant so I thought you were offended. What is this thread all about then? Some young fellas brought a non offensive banner to a game and now there is a long thread about it?"
You are going to have to read the whole thread to see what it's about. It must have resonated with people so that's why it's long. If the banner appears Saturday evening I'd be very disappointed. It only represents a minority I'm sure.

thegadfly (Cavan) - Posts: 262 - 29/07/2021 19:51:12    2365608

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Gadfly, here are two issues I think.
Firstly there is the assumption that Tyrone fans are aping English football fans.
Secondly, your suggestion that after decades of living in a state where the majority considered themselves British that the young nationalists had somehow absorbed Britishness by osmosis.
The second issue is the one that is causing real offence. As you know, Nationalists in the North suffered long and hard in order to retain and protect their cultural identity. GAA fans and players suffered real harrasment. from crown forces over the decades. Everybody knows the about the shenanigans the British got up to at Crossmaglen etc. Bearing all that in mind I think your remark about young people absorbing Britishness is insensitive at best and downright insulting to those people.
I don't think it's just simply a matter of wanting to be like the English. Millwall was, as you point out, where the slogan originated; MIllwall 's fans, who were predominantly working class, were reviled by the largely middle class London press and the BBC. Perhaps the slogan resonated with the Tyrone lads who get seriously bad press down in the South-it wasn't just simply them aping British fans to be like them. . I also think you have to allow for the fact that the banner is largely tongue in cheek.
Your argument seems to be that our sports ought not be contaminated by such British influences but you are assuming that GAA football. exists in a vacuum. Of course, the GAA played a huge part in the project of de-Anglicising Ireland. But the founders of the GAA studied how the British had codified their sports and borrowed elements from that. Even recently we have adopted the use of cards as a disciplinary measure. The history of Gaelic football is interwoven with that. of other sports; It is not as pure a cultural phenomenon as you might like to think.

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1819 - 29/07/2021 21:56:29    2365631

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Not once in this forum have I ever denied the abuse that ulster gaa people have been subjected to, I've read Mickey Hartes book, I've read Joe kernans book, I've always praised ulster gaa fans as being very good for travelling to games on big numbers, and I've always acknowledged how difficult it is to promote games on the North in the face of anti gaa sentiment, I don't even know what that aspect of your reply that has to do with my post.
Please don't pretend to have a monopoly on begrudgery, I can count on one hand how many times I've heard anti ulster bile being spouted here in Galway at least,( even on the extremely extremely odd occasion when young men from ulster come down for a night out and end up throwing their weight around) to be quite honest I've personally never heard it, except for when it comes to blanket defense football, in which case the criticism is fair imo, and not rooted in bigotry,, Kilkenny, kerry, and ESPECIALLY Dublin get it ten times worse than ye (and the dubs got it even when they weren't much good).
It must give you a great feeling of self righteousness, believing that everyone in the 26 counties hate the North."
A monopoly on begrudgery? You were the poster who decided to start ranking the levels of abuse, not me. I guess if you don't hear much Ulster abuse in Galway then it never really happens going by what you wrote above. Good to know that's your metre stick. Maybe scroll through some of the many anti northern rants on this forum to get a clearer picture and yes, many of them are rooted in bigotry. Just a couple of weeks ago some lad from Wexford was on here praising Laois for sending Antrim back to Britain to collect their dole from Boris or something to that effect, it was removed an hour or two later thankfully, but he clearly isn't alone in his views!

Armagh and Tyrone played a crucial role in a fascinating era for gaelic football yet the media slated them for anti football, puke football, cynicism etc to avoid focusing on their undoubted talent and great play like they did with Dublin and Kerry, who played defensive, cynical football to win all irelands too, but that was just the 'cream rising to the top'. Those types of double standards are well documented at this stage and you've decided it's fair criticism so there you have it.

I never once said I believe that all the 26 counties hate the North, nor do I believe that to be the case for a second either so that's another daft assumption I'll call you on. Ive a lot of time for teams, supporters and people in general in the South and have demonstrated that many times on here and in person.

You said in a previous post that you had to listen to 'anti Southern jibes' which changed your opinion on Northern teams. I guess so long as nobody offends you then the rest of us should "stop whining" when the shoe is on the other foot.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2278 - 29/07/2021 21:58:27    2365632

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "I met plenty from the Inishowen peninsula sneering at and imitating their own county men from the West Donegal Gaeltacht in a nasty way, that's an even sadder mindset.

Look at another of your county men, the self appointed "Ulster Football Spokesman" on this forum, the fine example he is setting when it comes to disrespecting other Gaels and the bad name he manages to single handedly give Donegal."
I'm from West Donegal and we wouldn't be too concerned what anyone thinks about us to be honest! It actually amuses me that Inishowen people would mock anyone ; ) Seriously though, I get your point that people in any walk of life can be nasty. But petty rivalries within counties to me is minor compared to one's nationality being undermined. I just feel that everyone on this island has the right to identify as and feel Irish, no matter how the politics have played out. The pain and misery northern nationalists have endured down the years versus the relatively peaceful lives of southern nationalists is obvious, so when people from the 26 sneer at people in the 6 for being victims of partition, I find it odious.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1028 - 29/07/2021 22:11:38    2365637

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Awk bless those serial winners of trophies having to listen to neutrals wanting the underdog to beat them. That's terrible abuse altogether. You never see that in sport do you! Did any of them go to matches as proud GAA people and have to listen to jeers from so called fellow GAA supporters or opposition players like "We dont pay our taxes to the queen" or "away back up to Britain with ye" on top of all the constant bigotry recieved from the other side of the community the rest of the week for daring to wear GAA gear in public places or play hurling in the local park? Or have the RUC constantly harassing bus loads of players and supporters travelling to matches for the same reasons as the other 26 counties who could travel freely without any danger? I think if the 6 county hate only extended as far as on field success you would never have had the seige mentality that existed back when Armagh and Tyrone were lifting Sam. Perhaps take that kindergarten advice you gave and apply it to yourself if that's the best you can do."
Getting sick and tired of you thinking Ulster only has 6 counties. Remember that Cavan/Monaghan/Donegal traveled throughout the North of Ireland playing championship games through all those dark days and are not receiving any of the British Queens millions to build white elephant stadiums.

seamusorinn (USA) - Posts: 201 - 29/07/2021 22:37:15    2365640

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "A monopoly on begrudgery? You were the poster who decided to start ranking the levels of abuse, not me. I guess if you don't hear much Ulster abuse in Galway then it never really happens going by what you wrote above. Good to know that's your metre stick. Maybe scroll through some of the many anti northern rants on this forum to get a clearer picture and yes, many of them are rooted in bigotry. Just a couple of weeks ago some lad from Wexford was on here praising Laois for sending Antrim back to Britain to collect their dole from Boris or something to that effect, it was removed an hour or two later thankfully, but he clearly isn't alone in his views!

Armagh and Tyrone played a crucial role in a fascinating era for gaelic football yet the media slated them for anti football, puke football, cynicism etc to avoid focusing on their undoubted talent and great play like they did with Dublin and Kerry, who played defensive, cynical football to win all irelands too, but that was just the 'cream rising to the top'. Those types of double standards are well documented at this stage and you've decided it's fair criticism so there you have it.

I never once said I believe that all the 26 counties hate the North, nor do I believe that to be the case for a second either so that's another daft assumption I'll call you on. Ive a lot of time for teams, supporters and people in general in the South and have demonstrated that many times on here and in person.

You said in a previous post that you had to listen to 'anti Southern jibes' which changed your opinion on Northern teams. I guess so long as nobody offends you then the rest of us should "stop whining" when the shoe is on the other foot."
A crude way of putting it,, I simply stated it was hard to continue rooting for Northern teams when they didn't seem to have much time for non ulster teams. Why should I? You're guilty of the exact same thing when you clearly allow certain jibes dictate how you feel about all Ireland contenders, geographically speaking. (that thing about Boris clearly wedged itself hard into your memory circuits, don't tell me that's not affecting your attitude, even if you might claim for the purposes of making yourself seem enlightened to be more level headed about it)
And stop with the "cream rising to the top" nonsense,, I've rarely heard something so inaccurate on here, and that's saying something,, anyone with even a passing knowledge of this forum and the gaa in general would know that Dublin get almost no credit for their success from many posters and gaa fans.
Are you honestly suggesting that Dublins funding, or kerrys lack of competition in munster doesn't come up, regularly? Nauseatingly regularly?
You've been on this forum long enough, that if you're honestly claiming that, you're either an idiot, or you're a liar.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 957 - 29/07/2021 22:39:46    2365641

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C'mon Tyrone ! lol

We need a real all guns blazin' old style final.

If any spice boys turn up on the day rolling about after a flick of the hair or sides they should be kicked off the pitch !

We need a team of winners to beat Kerry in next round.

IssacBall (Derry) - Posts: 51 - 29/07/2021 22:45:50    2365644

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Are we going having a debate on every counties fans...? What county will we pick next? I always found Tyrone fans sound.

I remember the Tyrone team and fans coming to Castlebar for the first competitive game after Cormac mcanallen's death and they received a great reception. Likewise they have always been very welcoming up in Omagh to us Mayo fans.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10843 - 29/07/2021 22:55:42    2365647

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Replying To thegadfly:  "You are going to have to read the whole thread to see what it's about. It must have resonated with people so that's why it's long. If the banner appears Saturday evening I'd be very disappointed. It only represents a minority I'm sure."
I'm not going to read it all again Gadfly. I've posted around a half dozen posts on it including the 4th post. I still dont know why you would be disappointed if a non offensive banner reappears at a game I assume you wont even be at. The whole thread is bizarre which is why I'm still posting on it. But pretty pointless at the same time as I dont think anyone else has condemned the banner except you!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3523 - 30/07/2021 07:14:31    2365659

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Replying To avonali:  "Gadfly, here are two issues I think.
Firstly there is the assumption that Tyrone fans are aping English football fans.
Secondly, your suggestion that after decades of living in a state where the majority considered themselves British that the young nationalists had somehow absorbed Britishness by osmosis.
The second issue is the one that is causing real offence. As you know, Nationalists in the North suffered long and hard in order to retain and protect their cultural identity. GAA fans and players suffered real harrasment. from crown forces over the decades. Everybody knows the about the shenanigans the British got up to at Crossmaglen etc. Bearing all that in mind I think your remark about young people absorbing Britishness is insensitive at best and downright insulting to those people.
I don't think it's just simply a matter of wanting to be like the English. Millwall was, as you point out, where the slogan originated; MIllwall 's fans, who were predominantly working class, were reviled by the largely middle class London press and the BBC. Perhaps the slogan resonated with the Tyrone lads who get seriously bad press down in the South-it wasn't just simply them aping British fans to be like them. . I also think you have to allow for the fact that the banner is largely tongue in cheek.
Your argument seems to be that our sports ought not be contaminated by such British influences but you are assuming that GAA football. exists in a vacuum. Of course, the GAA played a huge part in the project of de-Anglicising Ireland. But the founders of the GAA studied how the British had codified their sports and borrowed elements from that. Even recently we have adopted the use of cards as a disciplinary measure. The history of Gaelic football is interwoven with that. of other sports; It is not as pure a cultural phenomenon as you might like to think."
On top of which Millwall have a long history of Irish fans, Irish players and even Irish managers. Popular at club quizzes for years was the fact Eamon Dunphy used to be the clubs most capped player.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3523 - 30/07/2021 07:17:40    2365660

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Replying To carlovia:  "Hope you weren't watching the Meath team of the late 80 s and early 90s.

Not exactly free flowing football either.

Wasn't it the physical beating that Meath gave Tyrone during that time that toughened Tyrone up."
Sure your comparing apples and oranges. Yes meath were very physical, over the top alot of the times.....and dirty too, but that's not the issue. Tyrone were pulling, dragging , screaming in lads.faces when they missed, feigning injury.....sure what's there to like about that??? And unfortunately they Brought that into the gaa and they'll be remembered for that as much as some brilliant players imo.

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 751 - 30/07/2021 07:55:43    2365665

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When I saw the title of this I immediately thought this is a fellow Dub writing a topic after a few pints and before our two teams possibly exit the championships this weekend. We are after all the only county who, until Thurles on Saturday or perhaps Croke Park on Sunday, who can still win the double.
To put it nicely, we don't care that nobody likes us. Up the Dubs.
PS….we know most people really love us but are reluctant to admit it.

BlueBeret (Dublin) - Posts: 38 - 30/07/2021 08:25:38    2365670

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "Sure your comparing apples and oranges. Yes meath were very physical, over the top alot of the times.....and dirty too, but that's not the issue. Tyrone were pulling, dragging , screaming in lads.faces when they missed, feigning injury.....sure what's there to like about that??? And unfortunately they Brought that into the gaa and they'll be remembered for that as much as some brilliant players imo."
Pulling and dragging has always been part of the game. Smart remarks and a bit of jeering likewise. Feigning injury or at least making a meal of it maybe only since the late 90s but to say Tyrone brought it in is absolute nonsense.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3523 - 30/07/2021 10:39:26    2365698

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Replying To Galway9801:  "A crude way of putting it,, I simply stated it was hard to continue rooting for Northern teams when they didn't seem to have much time for non ulster teams. Why should I? You're guilty of the exact same thing when you clearly allow certain jibes dictate how you feel about all Ireland contenders, geographically speaking. (that thing about Boris clearly wedged itself hard into your memory circuits, don't tell me that's not affecting your attitude, even if you might claim for the purposes of making yourself seem enlightened to be more level headed about it)
And stop with the "cream rising to the top" nonsense,, I've rarely heard something so inaccurate on here, and that's saying something,, anyone with even a passing knowledge of this forum and the gaa in general would know that Dublin get almost no credit for their success from many posters and gaa fans.
Are you honestly suggesting that Dublins funding, or kerrys lack of competition in munster doesn't come up, regularly? Nauseatingly regularly?
You've been on this forum long enough, that if you're honestly claiming that, you're either an idiot, or you're a liar."
I didnt tell you to support a northern team, maybe I'll say what other posters have said in case you missed it, I couldn't care less who you decide to support. You've obviously got a complex off the back of what a few people have said to you and want to blame all 6 counties for that, whatever floats your boat. Yes I would support my neighbouring counties if they get out of Ulster, they usually need it as they aren't very successful these days, I believe you claimed to support them for the same reasons before somebody upset you at a match. But dont assume it's because I hate the other 26 counties. I've travelled to Croker and bought the colours of many a county, usually the underdog.

Which leads me to the 3 teams you've highlighted. 3 successful counties who are always in and around trophies. I root for the underdog against them, like most people on here. But I don't deny their greatness and neither do most level headed posters. I think most would agree current Dublin are the best team they've seen so I'm not sure where you get their 'no credit' theory from, while you talk about inaccuracies. I believe Kilkenny of 06 - 14 was the greatest hurling team I've seen and so do most others I would imagine. The issue of funding is a debatable one, as is provincial routes to an AI. Even posters from Dublin and Kerry have admitted so in the past. The ones calling for Dublin to be split etc boil down to one or two posters that nobody takes seriously, it's fanciful nonsense.

I still dont know how you've decided it's on a toxic level of abuse above that of real life issues that affect everybody in the North. Yes the Boris thing hits home, his brexit mess alone has made life extremely hostile up here again in case you missed that down in Galway too. If you can't see the difference in what we're discussing here perhaps its you that's the idiot.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2278 - 30/07/2021 11:00:11    2365709

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