National Forum

Munster MFC Cork 5-28 Waterford 0-03 (40 Point Win)

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


What do results like this do for football of any age but especially what is deemed underage??..Waterford are struggling enough as it is, in fairness they have kept inter county going consistently all over the years despite little or no success...what do 40 point defeats do for the youngsters that trained for this match, who had the (at their age lets be fair) the embarrassment of having to play out this game when it was obviously done and dusted from early on. I know it couldn't be blown up early either which would be equally embarrassing. I am not blaming Cork either, but surely at underage seed teams in two competitions and let two finalists get promoted or something...Waterford will probably be down a few of this team for senior in the future on top of the natural fall off from underage...who could blame them...a shocking defeat on any team..especially a team doing well to keep football well alive within the county and keeping an inter county team turned out every league and championship...I wish Waterford well in the future..

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 928 - 21/07/2021 22:45:59    2362694

Link

Replying To Fairplayalways:  "What do results like this do for football of any age but especially what is deemed underage??..Waterford are struggling enough as it is, in fairness they have kept inter county going consistently all over the years despite little or no success...what do 40 point defeats do for the youngsters that trained for this match, who had the (at their age lets be fair) the embarrassment of having to play out this game when it was obviously done and dusted from early on. I know it couldn't be blown up early either which would be equally embarrassing. I am not blaming Cork either, but surely at underage seed teams in two competitions and let two finalists get promoted or something...Waterford will probably be down a few of this team for senior in the future on top of the natural fall off from underage...who could blame them...a shocking defeat on any team..especially a team doing well to keep football well alive within the county and keeping an inter county team turned out every league and championship...I wish Waterford well in the future.."
I don't know much about what goes on behind the scenes in waterford minor football but I'd hazard a guess that alot of the blame for this fiasco lies with them.
It's always going to be difficult to beat Cork I admit but I've no doubt that had they applied themselves properly to this task they would have done far better.
An underage team i used to be on were sometimes on the receiving end of some immense hidings but that's because most of our guys would literally just turn up on the day of the game , while the opposition would be training for weeks beforehand.
Thise hammerings were our fault, no one else's.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1262 - 22/07/2021 09:15:03    2362732

Link

Yeh look just another reason why football needs to have tiered competitions. Why we are still even debating it is beyond everyone.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4006 - 22/07/2021 09:36:10    2362738

Link

Replying To daytona11:  "Yeh look just another reason why football needs to have tiered competitions. Why we are still even debating it is beyond everyone."
As I've said it's the teams themselves who don't want a teird championship yet offer no alternative to what's going on at the moment.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 984 - 22/07/2021 09:53:07    2362743

Link

I don't know about little or no preparation...surely a co. Board has to register and I assume pay some sort of fee for each team entered, and yet Waterford have a consistent (be it division 4) inter county senior team every year and put it up to Carlow and Wicklow Limerick etc.be it League or championship so it's not as if they are doing absolutely nothing with football in the county..where are these senior players coming from...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 928 - 22/07/2021 10:02:56    2362746

Link

No one batted an eyelid when Cork minor hurlers humiliated Clare also by 40 points.

Cork 6-28 Clare 0-6

Should Clare be relegated in hurling? Their U20s also lost by a lot.

If Waterford are going to be relegated in football, so should Clare in hurling.

Maybe Cork have sorted out their issues and are going to be a force in the coming years.

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 187 - 22/07/2021 10:05:11    2362747

Link

Replying To skirge7:  "No one batted an eyelid when Cork minor hurlers humiliated Clare also by 40 points.

Cork 6-28 Clare 0-6

Should Clare be relegated in hurling? Their U20s also lost by a lot.

If Waterford are going to be relegated in football, so should Clare in hurling.

Maybe Cork have sorted out their issues and are going to be a force in the coming years."
Strange argument considering we already have a tiered structure in hurling. If Clare, just like Offaly, can't compete with the top tiered counties at any age group they will be relegated. Their results will ensure that.

The tiered structure in hurling been by and large successful and no reason why football can't replicate it.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4006 - 22/07/2021 10:15:08    2362748

Link

Replying To skirge7:  "No one batted an eyelid when Cork minor hurlers humiliated Clare also by 40 points.

Cork 6-28 Clare 0-6

Should Clare be relegated in hurling? Their U20s also lost by a lot.

If Waterford are going to be relegated in football, so should Clare in hurling.

Maybe Cork have sorted out their issues and are going to be a force in the coming years."
I think people very much batted an eyelid when Cork humiliated Clare. If people didn't then there is something serious wrong.
What underage needs is a tiered competition, or a league format to decide what level you are at.
The provinicial championships are just causing more problems than they are solving. I bet Waterford would give many counties minor teams a good game of it, instead they are stuck in with Cork and Kerry who are always going to beat them....and badly more than likely. What incentive is that for a young lad to give his all to play football for Waterford?
A disgrace to treat young lads like such cannon fodder.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1613 - 22/07/2021 10:18:22    2362750

Link

Sometimes lads go out with knots in their stomach fearing the worst, trust me. Those with infinite authority in the association have more than enough to fix the problem, but can't because of the web of politics throughout the organization.

- July 10th MFC Kildare 6-18 Carlow 1-07. This result went over a lot of heads.

An annual "Endurance Trophy" for the weaker counties might be a starting point.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2608 - 22/07/2021 10:18:39    2362751

Link

While we're at it, can anyone shed any light on what the hell happened to the clare players against Cork? Every team gets the odd hammering I guess but 40 points?
I hope that's not an accurate representation of where underage hurling is at in the banner county, they're in big trouble if it is.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1262 - 22/07/2021 12:24:41    2362804

Link

Replying To StoreysTash:  "I think people very much batted an eyelid when Cork humiliated Clare. If people didn't then there is something serious wrong.
What underage needs is a tiered competition, or a league format to decide what level you are at.
The provinicial championships are just causing more problems than they are solving. I bet Waterford would give many counties minor teams a good game of it, instead they are stuck in with Cork and Kerry who are always going to beat them....and badly more than likely. What incentive is that for a young lad to give his all to play football for Waterford?
A disgrace to treat young lads like such cannon fodder."
Seeding competitions at senior level is one thing, but it's trickier to do at underage as there's such turnover in the panels every year.
There are counties who got wiped out in the first round, who won their provincial titles the following year with a stronger crop of players.
Cases like Waterford might be clear-cut, but there would be uproar from the batch of counties who'd be considered borderline tier 1 or 2, based on previous results, if they were demoted. Underage is thankfully more unpredictable than senior level.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1489 - 22/07/2021 12:32:27    2362809

Link

Replying To WanPintWin:  "Seeding competitions at senior level is one thing, but it's trickier to do at underage as there's such turnover in the panels every year.
There are counties who got wiped out in the first round, who won their provincial titles the following year with a stronger crop of players.
Cases like Waterford might be clear-cut, but there would be uproar from the batch of counties who'd be considered borderline tier 1 or 2, based on previous results, if they were demoted. Underage is thankfully more unpredictable than senior level."
Its not really. Especially for the competitions like minor/u17 and u20/21 when you can look at both previous years efforts at the grade in question for trends as well as look how counties did for this age cohort at under 14/15/16 etc

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2729 - 22/07/2021 12:50:15    2362818

Link

Replying To skirge7:  "No one batted an eyelid when Cork minor hurlers humiliated Clare also by 40 points.

Cork 6-28 Clare 0-6

Should Clare be relegated in hurling? Their U20s also lost by a lot.

If Waterford are going to be relegated in football, so should Clare in hurling.

Maybe Cork have sorted out their issues and are going to be a force in the coming years."
to be honest, I did intend raising a similar post last week with that result, but with the fine weather and work I just didnt get around to it..that said, Clare are in a fairly healthy place in hurling, and you will get hammerings like this the odd year but not every year in hurling....Waterford football is at the lowest ebb in DIvision 4 and then to get an underage football hammering like this, you cant really compare Clare underage hurling hammering to Waterford minor football hammering, be it their are individual youngsters on the teams concerned, but the overall code picture is very different if you get my drift...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 928 - 22/07/2021 13:12:45    2362835

Link

Replying To WanPintWin:  "Seeding competitions at senior level is one thing, but it's trickier to do at underage as there's such turnover in the panels every year.
There are counties who got wiped out in the first round, who won their provincial titles the following year with a stronger crop of players.
Cases like Waterford might be clear-cut, but there would be uproar from the batch of counties who'd be considered borderline tier 1 or 2, based on previous results, if they were demoted. Underage is thankfully more unpredictable than senior level."
Well that was why I suggested a league, 4 x groups of 8. Play 3 matches, top 2 in to All-Ireland, bottom 2 in to B comp.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1613 - 22/07/2021 14:31:14    2362863

Link

Replying To Fairplayalways:  "to be honest, I did intend raising a similar post last week with that result, but with the fine weather and work I just didnt get around to it..that said, Clare are in a fairly healthy place in hurling, and you will get hammerings like this the odd year but not every year in hurling....Waterford football is at the lowest ebb in DIvision 4 and then to get an underage football hammering like this, you cant really compare Clare underage hurling hammering to Waterford minor football hammering, be it their are individual youngsters on the teams concerned, but the overall code picture is very different if you get my drift..."
Also the fact that in hurling if you are not performing you will get relegated down through the tiers. As you well know.

Also in underage hurling competitions there are B All irelands.

So comparing a hurling result to a football result really is a silly illogical argument. For the simple reason is hurling is tiered.

Look at the football leagues for example. Some of the best matches we see are Div3/4. Then for some mad reason we have games in the championship where the result is a forgone conclusion.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4006 - 22/07/2021 14:40:04    2362867

Link

Replying To daytona11:  "Also the fact that in hurling if you are not performing you will get relegated down through the tiers. As you well know.

Also in underage hurling competitions there are B All irelands.

So comparing a hurling result to a football result really is a silly illogical argument. For the simple reason is hurling is tiered.

Look at the football leagues for example. Some of the best matches we see are Div3/4. Then for some mad reason we have games in the championship where the result is a forgone conclusion."
Do you think Clare will be in the B all-ireland next year in Minor or U20?

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 187 - 22/07/2021 14:51:44    2362872

Link

All just for the record there is normally a group in hurling and football a minor level in Munster. It went to straight knock out due to covid.

https://munster.gaa.ie/fixtures/minor/#2019

And before that they played 3 quarters. The winners went to the semis. The losers played off a group of 3 with the winner back in the semis. This was done to give the lower teams more competitive games before having to play cork or kerry

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 187 - 22/07/2021 14:56:48    2362874

Link

Replying To StoreysTash:  "Well that was why I suggested a league, 4 x groups of 8. Play 3 matches, top 2 in to All-Ireland, bottom 2 in to B comp."
That would be great as it would re-grade the teams based on their current standard, not the historical results of a barely related group of players. It's an entire revamp of the provincial structure. We all know it makes sense, but you'd have a better chance of solving global warming than passing that through congress.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1489 - 22/07/2021 16:05:02    2362903

Link

its a well rehearsed saying now but beating anybody by 40 points is not doing anything for football or hurling depending on the code...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 928 - 22/07/2021 16:07:34    2362904

Link

Replying To KillingFields:  "Its not really. Especially for the competitions like minor/u17 and u20/21 when you can look at both previous years efforts at the grade in question for trends as well as look how counties did for this age cohort at under 14/15/16 etc"
The previous year's efforts could be from a panel at least 50% different from the current one, if not more. I think re-grading them based on current year results would be much fairer. Let them play their matches and off they go into the lower grade if they don't perform well.
It's a format followed in numerous sports like rugby 7s, hockey and some volleyball competitions. They all start out in the same competition and based on results, either stay in the top tier or go into the lower tiers, until all are played to a conclusion.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1489 - 22/07/2021 16:11:22    2362905

Link