National Forum

Tyrone Red Card Appeal

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Replying To rorysboys:  "I'm no wild fan of Mac namee but in fairness he deserves to play if shoe was on other foot I would be annoyed if one of the Donegal players got a ban for it. Let him play."
Spot on, wouldn't be many players left on field if reds do were handed out for minor incidents. Then clothesline a player and maybe get a yellow.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 979 - 16/07/2021 20:41:46    2360502

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Replying To TheRock2121:  "Let's hope Murphy is fit. If so I think it's 50/50."
Murphy is nowhere near fit unfortunately, we might get 25 mins out of him in the 2nd half, maybe.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1797 - 16/07/2021 23:17:36    2360541

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Only just read that mcnamee got away with hitting a player twice in the face off the ball infront of the lines man. Gaa showing again that the rules are only a guide to be used when they see fit.
Embarrassing by gaa HQ.

ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 247 - 17/07/2021 12:55:33    2360627

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The more I think about it I think the cccc or appeals board watch TSG and are influenced by the comments. I have noticed the last few years the comments of the pundits seem to carry weight. O Sé and Whelan last Sun night said he should get off in an appeal and so it was
Personally I think it should have been red. It was not dangerous but its really provocation and has no place in the game.,

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2768 - 17/07/2021 14:01:03    2360661

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "The more I think about it I think the cccc or appeals board watch TSG and are influenced by the comments. I have noticed the last few years the comments of the pundits seem to carry weight. O Sé and Whelan last Sun night said he should get off in an appeal and so it was
Personally I think it should have been red. It was not dangerous but its really provocation and has no place in the game.,"
O'Se and Whelan were correct and that is not always the case. Refs do make mistakes and they are not gods (even though some of them think they are) - if that was red then quite of few of your team would be sidelined most matches. You have to be able to differentiate between a punch and a push. Not sure what the previous poster meant who described it as a 'hit'.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2278 - 17/07/2021 14:57:52    2360685

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "The more I think about it I think the cccc or appeals board watch TSG and are influenced by the comments. I have noticed the last few years the comments of the pundits seem to carry weight. O Sé and Whelan last Sun night said he should get off in an appeal and so it was
Personally I think it should have been red. It was not dangerous but its really provocation and has no place in the game.,"
I think you are being a bit hard on the appeals committee. Would you not consider that the cttee looked at the incident and looked at the rule under which the referee applied the red card sanction. The rule uses the word "strike" the definition of which is to hit quickly and forcibly. Maybe the cttee's judgement was that McNamee's action was not covered by the rule. I agree the action was provocative but provocation is not mentioned in the rules. Maybe deliberate contact with the face should be defined as an offence with a red card sanction but as of now it is not. My own opinion at the time was his red card was the correct call but when I looked at the wording of the rule l believe the wrong sanction was applied by the referee.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 17/07/2021 15:11:34    2360691

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Replying To sligo joe:  "I think you are being a bit hard on the appeals committee. Would you not consider that the cttee looked at the incident and looked at the rule under which the referee applied the red card sanction. The rule uses the word "strike" the definition of which is to hit quickly and forcibly. Maybe the cttee's judgement was that McNamee's action was not covered by the rule. I agree the action was provocative but provocation is not mentioned in the rules. Maybe deliberate contact with the face should be defined as an offence with a red card sanction but as of now it is not. My own opinion at the time was his red card was the correct call but when I looked at the wording of the rule l believe the wrong sanction was applied by the referee."
You can bé sent off for a number of incidents besides striking. If the referee put striking in his report (I admit I don't know what was in refs report) then of course the player can get off on appeal on a technicality. I don't know the criteria they use but I have noticed the last few years when TSG pundits point out a few things the cccc seem to agree. Now maybe team managers and county board officials are watching TSG and using these arguments at the appeals process. Again I states this is my own personal opinion but I do think it's a bad act and deserves a red. If someone did that and got punched back in the face the retaliatory would be banned and its hard to keep cool under those circumstances.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2768 - 17/07/2021 15:24:08    2360706

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "You can bé sent off for a number of incidents besides striking. If the referee put striking in his report (I admit I don't know what was in refs report) then of course the player can get off on appeal on a technicality. I don't know the criteria they use but I have noticed the last few years when TSG pundits point out a few things the cccc seem to agree. Now maybe team managers and county board officials are watching TSG and using these arguments at the appeals process. Again I states this is my own personal opinion but I do think it's a bad act and deserves a red. If someone did that and got punched back in the face the retaliatory would be banned and its hard to keep cool under those circumstances."
I agree with all you say regarding provocation etc and in the spirit of the game,yes send him off. But in fact there are only 8 straight red card offences in the rule book. The appeals process is structured, the incident is examined by taking all evidence, video (this is the mainstay, very very rarely are cards overturned without video) if available, and verbal/written evidence. If the evidence concurs with the red card offence as per ref's report, the card stands if not it's rescinded. In this case I think it is reasonable to assume the ref cited the striking rule as none of the other 7 would apply.
As I said before maybe a new rule covering deliberate contact with the face is needed, as
you say provocative.
Ironically behaviour inciting a melee is a red card so if they all joined in after the incident the red would have stuck but only if the ref applied in for the incitement rule.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 17/07/2021 18:33:38    2360780

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Replying To sligo joe:  "I agree with all you say regarding provocation etc and in the spirit of the game,yes send him off. But in fact there are only 8 straight red card offences in the rule book. The appeals process is structured, the incident is examined by taking all evidence, video (this is the mainstay, very very rarely are cards overturned without video) if available, and verbal/written evidence. If the evidence concurs with the red card offence as per ref's report, the card stands if not it's rescinded. In this case I think it is reasonable to assume the ref cited the striking rule as none of the other 7 would apply.
As I said before maybe a new rule covering deliberate contact with the face is needed, as
you say provocative.
Ironically behaviour inciting a melee is a red card so if they all joined in after the incident the red would have stuck but only if the ref applied in for the incitement rule."
Good points Joe and I was thinking the same thing as you in that if a melee started because of that incident there would be no appealing the red card.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2768 - 17/07/2021 20:16:39    2360816

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Replying To ulsterrules:  "Only just read that mcnamee got away with hitting a player twice in the face off the ball infront of the lines man. Gaa showing again that the rules are only a guide to be used when they see fit.
Embarrassing by gaa HQ."
If that's what you call hitting I would have liked you as my teacher in the 80's.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 979 - 17/07/2021 20:37:57    2360827

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Hope it's a good game now anyway, I expected McNamee to get off, at least we know now it's ok to push a fella in the face, might be a yellow card, might not, depending on the ref so batter away now at it. as long as you don't close the fist and mill the head of the fella you're ok. a precedent has been set.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1797 - 17/07/2021 21:35:30    2360852

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Murphy is nowhere near fit unfortunately, we might get 25 mins out of him in the 2nd half, maybe."
He's starting?

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1948 - 17/07/2021 21:37:55    2360853

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "He's starting?"
Aye see that reported, hope it won't be like what happened in the Down game, if he's fit then start him, but starting him and then having to take him off? madness.
better to have in reserve if needed late on.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1797 - 17/07/2021 22:19:50    2360876

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Aye see that reported, hope it won't be like what happened in the Down game, if he's fit then start him, but starting him and then having to take him off? madness.
better to have in reserve if needed late on."
To be fair Declan Bonner knows if Murphy is fit or not. He see's him in training etc. So it looks like he's fit to play to the full game.

No excuses.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1948 - 18/07/2021 00:21:19    2360905

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "To be fair Declan Bonner knows if Murphy is fit or not. He see's him in training etc. So it looks like he's fit to play to the full game.

No excuses."
Nobody is making excuses. He's clearly not fit. He's one of the best players in Ireland so obviously an issue for us. As it would be for you if he was yours. He won't start in my view.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1022 - 18/07/2021 07:31:47    2360933

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "To be fair Declan Bonner knows if Murphy is fit or not. He see's him in training etc. So it looks like he's fit to play to the full game.

No excuses."
Whatever about excuses, the hamstring seems to be a puzzler as regards a player being match ready, players can pass all the physio tests and look/feel perfect in training and then the first sudden unexpected stress at match level and bang it goes again.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 18/07/2021 08:25:35    2360946

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Starting Murphy might be a risk but against Tyrone it's probably worth it. Also sometimes if you plan to play a player that's maybe not 100% injury free it's probably better to start him as if you bring him on as a sub and he breaks down that's 2 subs used. I'm really looking forward to this game. McKenna back in for Tyrone and McShane ready to be sprung. I really think Tyrone s forward line is so exciting and great subs on bench too. Both defenses suspect during league but championship different ball game. So hard to call but can't wait.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2768 - 18/07/2021 09:44:47    2360961

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Starting Murphy might be a risk but against Tyrone it's probably worth it. Also sometimes if you plan to play a player that's maybe not 100% injury free it's probably better to start him as if you bring him on as a sub and he breaks down that's 2 subs used. I'm really looking forward to this game. McKenna back in for Tyrone and McShane ready to be sprung. I really think Tyrone s forward line is so exciting and great subs on bench too. Both defenses suspect during league but championship different ball game. So hard to call but can't wait."
That's a good point Mick, we'll def need him starting against Monaghan if we manage a win today, if we hadn't played him against Down he'd likely be ok by now but anyway that's water under the bridge.
Going to be a sauna in Enniskillen, fitness will be key late on.
Donegal by 2.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1797 - 18/07/2021 13:28:12    2361015

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Justice done for the penalty there, not sure what the referee was looking at for that decision.

joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 203 - 18/07/2021 14:19:15    2361033

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