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Replying To gilly1910: "As someone who has family in England and who lived in London for years, I would genuinely have liked to see England win the Euros. However the English football team has always been followed by a boorish, jingoistic element, and they destroy any good will or feeling towards England, to the point where most people outside of England want them to lose. Gareth Southgate is an extremely decent person, who is very socially aware and his team in fairness mirrors that, none of the car crash circus that has followed England teams in the past. However until England can somehow extract themselves from the boorish mentality that follow England, there will never be any universal love or desire to see them win. The FA and Police have done great work over the years to eradicate the thugs that traditionally followed English football, but whether it is possible to change the mindset of a lot of the so called English football fans is debatable as we are now seeing with the horrific abuse that Rashford, Sancho and Saka are now receiving online. Maybe it's a societal issue, as there is no doubt that England has major issues with huge numbers of disaffected white young men, outside the social mainstream and who live in a culture at odds with any canons of proper behaviour. Football gives these men a mechanism to vent their hatred for other cultures and races and to show their absolute ignorance of history. Add in the absolute mess of Brexit, one of its striking features was high levels of support for Brexit among white working-class men without a college education - a group that is also especially likely to vote for right-populist candidates in other countries. These unfortunately for England are the men that attach themselves to the England football team. And we think we've got problems in this country!!" If you're any sort of representation of the 21st century left I don't blame low income whites from supporting the alternative.
Funny thing self proclaimed anti racists like you you probably don't bat an eyelid when a lady speaking at Yale boasts about her fantasy of killing white people, or the NYTs head of online content advocates a white holocaust,or the imam of one of ireland's largest mosques calls for a terrorist attack here in the aftermath of the gay marriage referendum.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1697 - 12/07/2021 20:40:24
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Replying To wexico15: "I'm so so on it really, i was hoping the Danes would go all the way, the story of them players lifting the trophy 4 weeks after seeing their team teammate essentially brought back to life on the pitch would have been amazing." After seeing the scandalous behaviour from a section of the English yobs my view certainly changed, Irish journalist Miguel Delaney said it was the worst policed game he's seen in his professional career.
bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 12/07/2021 20:49:12
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Replying To essmac: "How about the views of an English fan - this is an honest and well-written article in the London Evening Standard:
"The identity of Englishness has not always been an easy one, either to understand or to like. In 1992, I travelled around Sweden following the England team at that year's Euros. Everywhere the England contingent went they were met with generosity and friendship from the Swedish locals and light policing from the authorities. Everywhere they went, the England contingent smashed the place up in a drunken rage. It was a relief when I met a Scotland fan with spare tickets and I was able to go to their games instead. Watching Scotland was fun; being a fan of England was an expression of rage."
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/england-football-team-politicians-english-euro-2020-b945308.html?r=61259#comments-area
There are many, many decent ordinary folk supporting England (such as the writer of the article), same as any other nation's fans; but until the culture changes so that the xenophobes are history, England, like Russia, will remain a hard team for outsiders to get behind." Why single out England and Russia? Immigrants are treated fine everywhere else yeah?
African peoples for example are very welcoming to migrants yeah? (when they're not setting them on fire in Broad daylight of course), and Brazilians, well they just love all those fleeing Venezuelans coming into their country don't they?
If you really cared about immigrants you'd be calling this out but instead you're just using "xenophobia" as a stick to beat the British with.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1697 - 12/07/2021 20:58:39
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The whole Brexit thing has definitely made people here more anti British. I heard a lot of people saying that they really didn't want England to win this European championship as it came so soon after Brexit.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1335 - 12/07/2021 23:01:16
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Replying To Galway9801: "Why single out England and Russia? Immigrants are treated fine everywhere else yeah?
African peoples for example are very welcoming to migrants yeah? (when they're not setting them on fire in Broad daylight of course), and Brazilians, well they just love all those fleeing Venezuelans coming into their country don't they?
If you really cared about immigrants you'd be calling this out but instead you're just using "xenophobia" as a stick to beat the British with." It's more than a stick they would need beat with. Time Rashford and co stuck their two fingers up at FA and walked away. No protection at all from them or their government.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2005 - 12/07/2021 23:25:42
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Just glad those low life thugs who caused so much trouble are not celebrating a win. They deserve every misery that comes their way.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 13/07/2021 06:21:22
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Replying To Galway9801: "If you're any sort of representation of the 21st century left I don't blame low income whites from supporting the alternative.
Funny thing self proclaimed anti racists like you you probably don't bat an eyelid when a lady speaking at Yale boasts about her fantasy of killing white people, or the NYTs head of online content advocates a white holocaust,or the imam of one of ireland's largest mosques calls for a terrorist attack here in the aftermath of the gay marriage referendum." Exactly.
Nor are the same people who support BLM here saying one thing about Cuban cops battering black people in Havana, nor the collapse of South Africa among rival gangs.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2518 - 13/07/2021 07:19:53
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Replying To Galway9801: "If you're any sort of representation of the 21st century left I don't blame low income whites from supporting the alternative.
Funny thing self proclaimed anti racists like you you probably don't bat an eyelid when a lady speaking at Yale boasts about her fantasy of killing white people, or the NYTs head of online content advocates a white holocaust,or the imam of one of ireland's largest mosques calls for a terrorist attack here in the aftermath of the gay marriage referendum." That's the problem right there. The so called woke are so woke they are asleep to everyday issues. They are the ones with Palestinian flags and he/him on bio. But don't say a word about it actually been illegal to be gay in Palestine punishable by death. But will go ape when anyone says look I don't want someone with all there junk still intact changing in my young daughters changing room. They also love China the most abusive regime towards women in the world, they won't support freedom marches in Cuba. Or Venezuela either. And will label those who do as right wing xenophobia's.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 13/07/2021 08:06:17
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Replying To Galway9801: "Why single out England and Russia? Immigrants are treated fine everywhere else yeah?
African peoples for example are very welcoming to migrants yeah? (when they're not setting them on fire in Broad daylight of course), and Brazilians, well they just love all those fleeing Venezuelans coming into their country don't they?
If you really cared about immigrants you'd be calling this out but instead you're just using "xenophobia" as a stick to beat the British with." In fairness to him Brazil isn't in the Euros and neither are any African countries ( Love how you think all African countries can be lumped into one thing too )
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 13/07/2021 09:48:05
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Replying To Galway9801: "Why single out England and Russia? Immigrants are treated fine everywhere else yeah?
African peoples for example are very welcoming to migrants yeah? (when they're not setting them on fire in Broad daylight of course), and Brazilians, well they just love all those fleeing Venezuelans coming into their country don't they?
If you really cared about immigrants you'd be calling this out but instead you're just using "xenophobia" as a stick to beat the British with." In fairness to him Brazil isn't in the Euros and neither are any African countries ( Love how you think all African countries can be lumped into one thing too )
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 13/07/2021 09:51:32
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Replying To bdbuddah: "The whole Brexit thing has definitely made people here more anti British. I heard a lot of people saying that they really didn't want England to win this European championship as it came so soon after Brexit." I don't think it's Brexit as such, more the attitude that has emerged from across the water since Brexit. If the entire Brexit negotiation process has revealed anything, it's that Her Majesty's Government didn't really have a plan in general, and especially not for preserving the arrangements relating to the GFA. What's worse is their blithe attitude to the whole thing, as if it's a mere after thought rather than the cornerstone of peace on these islands for the last 20 years.
And it's very clear that the idea of the Irish Government holding leverage over the Brexit negotiation process infuriated a lot of people of a pro-Brexit/Conservative standpoint over in Britain. Ever since, it's been noticeable that a lot of those types have prominent in the comment sections of Irish media sites, pouring scorn on everything and anything Irish.
Personally, I think that there is was a low level animus in some parts of Britain towards Ireland that never really went away, particularly in services' towns in provincial parts of the island. This was submerged by the general peace and prosperity of the past twenty years but has burst to the surface in the past five years.
There's no doubt in my mind that the British Government would have co-opted the England squad as a Brexit propaganda tool had they won, even though their public position on several issues is completely at odds with what the Conservatives are promoting. Not to mention that most of their starting team are either the sons or grandsons of immigrants.
What we shouldn't forget though is that almost half of Britain voted to stay in the EU and there are a lot of people who don't like what's happening over there. On a personal level, herself is English and everyone she knows is very worried about the emergence of English nationalism as a political force in recent times.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 13/07/2021 10:56:01
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Replying To Galway9801: "Why single out England and Russia? Immigrants are treated fine everywhere else yeah?
African peoples for example are very welcoming to migrants yeah? (when they're not setting them on fire in Broad daylight of course), and Brazilians, well they just love all those fleeing Venezuelans coming into their country don't they?
If you really cared about immigrants you'd be calling this out but instead you're just using "xenophobia" as a stick to beat the British with." That article is about football hooliganism and not immigration per se. Like it or not, England and Russia are seen as the "worst of the worst" when it comes to that sort of thing, at least in Europe (although there has been some very unwelcome activity in Italy also in recent years, with one Irish football fan being stabbed).
Who else trashes parts of their own city before a ball has even been kicked? It's utter madness. And a very ugly atmosphere has been whipped up over there towards foreign fans, with both Danish and Italian fans having been attacked, and also idiots posting unsavory memes about a young German girl crying after their match with England.
This is a problem that England in particular has, I don't recall seeing any other hooliganism related incidents from the other Euro 2020 venues.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 13/07/2021 11:10:03
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England should never be allowed to host any major football tournament, that's clear.
People mention Africa and Russia, well South Africa and Russia both managed to host good World Cup tournaments in 2010 and 2018, although the blowing of vuvuzelas at the SA world cup is still ringing in my ears.
I remember when Russia was awarded the 2018 World Cup, the Russian ultras went into training, this is no exaggeration, they trained to be ready to take on the English hooligans in particular, to continue on the battle of Marseille from 2016.
The media stoked it up as usual and predicted that we were about to see the most violent tournaments ever.
As it turned out it was probably the best tournament ever, no violence worth a mention.
So what happened to the ultras, well before the tournament started the Kremlin cracked down, Putin made it clear to the ultras and anyone else that if you engage in violence and shame Russia you are going to a labour camp in Siberia for a very long time, even the ultras don't mess with the Kremlin.
Any sign of trouble from the English fans in Russia was met with the full force of a steel baton, nothing like the full force of a baton to sober you up.
There are many complex reasons why a section of English fans always behave like this, I think you have to start with the Anglo-Saxon blood to fully understand it, and I could say the same thing about the white supremacists in America today , it's never mentioned but that's my theory anyway.
Social media or anti social media companies are in my opinion the epitome of evil, they are contributing greatly to grand scale destabilization, mind warping, death and destruction.
Recently I lost a very good friend because of something which started out on social media, so I have seen at first hand the destruction it can do.
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 13/07/2021 11:16:51
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I think this thread could go in the dust bin by now, enjoyed Italy winning the final as much as watching Mayo losing another All Ireland final, well almost anyway.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2737 - 13/07/2021 11:42:50
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Naah, keep it. Lock it maybe, but keep it. It's been a good discussion on something very central to Irish identity, namely our relationship with our (third) nearest neighbour.
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1029 - 13/07/2021 12:28:31
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Replying To AfricanGael: "England should never be allowed to host any major football tournament, that's clear.
People mention Africa and Russia, well South Africa and Russia both managed to host good World Cup tournaments in 2010 and 2018, although the blowing of vuvuzelas at the SA world cup is still ringing in my ears.
I remember when Russia was awarded the 2018 World Cup, the Russian ultras went into training, this is no exaggeration, they trained to be ready to take on the English hooligans in particular, to continue on the battle of Marseille from 2016.
The media stoked it up as usual and predicted that we were about to see the most violent tournaments ever.
As it turned out it was probably the best tournament ever, no violence worth a mention.
So what happened to the ultras, well before the tournament started the Kremlin cracked down, Putin made it clear to the ultras and anyone else that if you engage in violence and shame Russia you are going to a labour camp in Siberia for a very long time, even the ultras don't mess with the Kremlin.
Any sign of trouble from the English fans in Russia was met with the full force of a steel baton, nothing like the full force of a baton to sober you up.
There are many complex reasons why a section of English fans always behave like this, I think you have to start with the Anglo-Saxon blood to fully understand it, and I could say the same thing about the white supremacists in America today , it's never mentioned but that's my theory anyway.
Social media or anti social media companies are in my opinion the epitome of evil, they are contributing greatly to grand scale destabilization, mind warping, death and destruction.
Recently I lost a very good friend because of something which started out on social media, so I have seen at first hand the destruction it can do." Agree with Anglo-Saxon take and unsocial media.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8584 - 13/07/2021 12:29:53
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Replying To Gleebo: "I don't think it's Brexit as such, more the attitude that has emerged from across the water since Brexit. If the entire Brexit negotiation process has revealed anything, it's that Her Majesty's Government didn't really have a plan in general, and especially not for preserving the arrangements relating to the GFA. What's worse is their blithe attitude to the whole thing, as if it's a mere after thought rather than the cornerstone of peace on these islands for the last 20 years.
And it's very clear that the idea of the Irish Government holding leverage over the Brexit negotiation process infuriated a lot of people of a pro-Brexit/Conservative standpoint over in Britain. Ever since, it's been noticeable that a lot of those types have prominent in the comment sections of Irish media sites, pouring scorn on everything and anything Irish.
Personally, I think that there is was a low level animus in some parts of Britain towards Ireland that never really went away, particularly in services' towns in provincial parts of the island. This was submerged by the general peace and prosperity of the past twenty years but has burst to the surface in the past five years.
There's no doubt in my mind that the British Government would have co-opted the England squad as a Brexit propaganda tool had they won, even though their public position on several issues is completely at odds with what the Conservatives are promoting. Not to mention that most of their starting team are either the sons or grandsons of immigrants.
What we shouldn't forget though is that almost half of Britain voted to stay in the EU and there are a lot of people who don't like what's happening over there. On a personal level, herself is English and everyone she knows is very worried about the emergence of English nationalism as a political force in recent times." Excellent post. That is my biggest issue with Brexit. The Conservatives/Brexiteers blustered, made false promises and outright lied to a lot of disaffected people to get it through the vote. Northern Ireland simply wasn't considered in any great way whatsoever and now they are left with the mess they're in with the Protocol. They've played face & loose the entire time with the GFA. That eejit Dominic Raab saying he read through it when questioned about it told you all you need to know.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9108 - 13/07/2021 13:13:53
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Excellent post. That is my biggest issue with Brexit. The Conservatives/Brexiteers blustered, made false promises and outright lied to a lot of disaffected people to get it through the vote. Northern Ireland simply wasn't considered in any great way whatsoever and now they are left with the mess they're in with the Protocol. They've played face & loose the entire time with the GFA. That eejit Dominic Raab saying he read through it when questioned about it told you all you need to know." Well, my take on it is that there are some very senior people in the Tory party that viewed the GFA as tantamount to a surrender (Michael Gove). Then you have the likes of the odious Priti Patel, threatening food embargoes on Ireland. And then there's a pro-military wing whose main objective is to get legal immunity for Crown forces accused of Troubles era crimes.
Johnson's way of working is to appear to vigorously oppose anything that he thinks will be unpopular (like the protocol), then to reluctantly agree to it if there's no sign of the other party buckling. Once the thing is signed, he waits for the backlash and then scuttles away from the agreement he signed, calling for a renegotiation. Or he finds a patsy and makes them walk the plank.
He only gets away with it because he's carefully cultivated an image of buffoonishness, so he's never held accountable even for serious policy blunders. And unfortunately the best opposition is not coming from Labour but from the likes of Marcus Rashford.
English nationalists have never been friends of Ireland and the current bunch are certainly not trustworthy. And it's very clear that the Tories will drop the Unionists like a hot snot if and when the opportunity presents itself.
If I were working in government buildings in Dublin, I'd start looking in to contingencies as regards what might happen on this island in the next decade or so, because the worst thing to happen would be to be unprepared.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 13/07/2021 13:42:59
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "I think this thread could go in the dust bin by now, enjoyed Italy winning the final as much as watching Mayo losing another All Ireland final, well almost anyway." Whisht, adults are talking. If the big words are too complicated for you, find something more at your level, like the Beano or the Dandy.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 13/07/2021 13:44:55
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Replying To Gleebo: "Well, my take on it is that there are some very senior people in the Tory party that viewed the GFA as tantamount to a surrender (Michael Gove). Then you have the likes of the odious Priti Patel, threatening food embargoes on Ireland. And then there's a pro-military wing whose main objective is to get legal immunity for Crown forces accused of Troubles era crimes.
Johnson's way of working is to appear to vigorously oppose anything that he thinks will be unpopular (like the protocol), then to reluctantly agree to it if there's no sign of the other party buckling. Once the thing is signed, he waits for the backlash and then scuttles away from the agreement he signed, calling for a renegotiation. Or he finds a patsy and makes them walk the plank.
He only gets away with it because he's carefully cultivated an image of buffoonishness, so he's never held accountable even for serious policy blunders. And unfortunately the best opposition is not coming from Labour but from the likes of Marcus Rashford.
English nationalists have never been friends of Ireland and the current bunch are certainly not trustworthy. And it's very clear that the Tories will drop the Unionists like a hot snot if and when the opportunity presents itself.
If I were working in government buildings in Dublin, I'd start looking in to contingencies as regards what might happen on this island in the next decade or so, because the worst thing to happen would be to be unprepared." Government buildings?
Were you as concerned about the people living in north county Dublin who had to put up with a week of violence at the start of the year.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2518 - 13/07/2021 13:51:52
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