National Forum

Round Robin Provincials (Football)

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To centerfield:  "Decouple the provincial from the championship.

Get rid of the league.

Provincials in spring.

Play championship on divisional basis.

Trophy for winning your division.

Div1. 6 qualifiers to knockout. Top 4 directly into QFs.
Div 2. 2 Qualfiers to knockout.
Div 3. 2 Qualifiers to knockout.
Div 4. 2 Qualifiers to knockout.

Div 1 position 5 and 6 and Div 2 qualifiers.
play top 2 in div 3 and 4. to fill remaining 4 QF places.

Use seeding based on position. 2 up 2 down relegation.

Above keeps provincials. Allows weaker team to win something meaningful. Path for every team to win sam if good enough."
I really hate having lower league teams able to advance at the expense of higher level teams.

It takes away a huge part of what's important about the league, maintaining/improving your status. In your system getting relegated isn't a big deal as the team will have an improved chance of making it to the knockout rounds the following season.

Hazard (getting knocked out or relegated) is an important part of what makes competitions interesting and you're taking that away to a huge degree.

You can lose competitive integrity in your system. Say a team like Donegal who'd have aspirations at the All Ireland. If they were out of the running for Sam they'd actually be incentivised to get relegated the following season.

Your system also invites poor teams into the latter stages of the competition. The big problem at the minute is with mismatches but at least they happen early. Why would we want them introduced to the latter stages which is where the pre-Super 8 qualifiers system wasn't actually really broken.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3625 - 11/07/2021 11:21:01    2358512

Link

Replying To centerfield:  "Decouple the provincial from the championship.

Get rid of the league.

Provincials in spring.

Play championship on divisional basis.

Trophy for winning your division.

Div1. 6 qualifiers to knockout. Top 4 directly into QFs.
Div 2. 2 Qualfiers to knockout.
Div 3. 2 Qualifiers to knockout.
Div 4. 2 Qualifiers to knockout.

Div 1 position 5 and 6 and Div 2 qualifiers.
play top 2 in div 3 and 4. to fill remaining 4 QF places.

Use seeding based on position. 2 up 2 down relegation.

Above keeps provincials. Allows weaker team to win something meaningful. Path for every team to win sam if good enough."
Sorry I misread, your top 6 in division 1 qualify for the knockouts, so ignore the Donegal getting relegated criticism.

I still really dislike the idea because of the removal of hazard to the league status.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3625 - 11/07/2021 11:23:14    2358514

Link

Back to 2 divs of 2 groups of 8.
Both Div 1 top 5s & both Div 2 top 3s to Sam Rd of 16.
So, top 10 are in, bottom 10 are out, the mid 12 with 6 in, go up/6 out, go down, and with KO 16 all Div 1 teams post promotion.

It gives everyone a reasonable chance - mid 12 teams will likely make KO every 2 yrs, with chance of more - they are not incentivised to tank, as gaining a KO spot from Div 2 requires Div 1 status the following year - mid 12 teams will likely play one Div 1 and one Div 2 every 2 yrs - when considering to tank or try - might as well try to stay up and be a KO team both years.

OR, in lieu of 7-match groups, have a 10-match Swiss System (Shara) for Upper & Lower 16s (with top 9 and top 4, respectively, to KO 13 (3 byes) - all playing Upper 16 the following year.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2150 - 13/07/2021 01:01:10    2359233

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "Sorry I misread, your top 6 in division 1 qualify for the knockouts, so ignore the Donegal getting relegated criticism.

I still really dislike the idea because of the removal of hazard to the league status."
Only way to get change through Congress is to give some bit of hope to the weaker counties

Seems to work ok I'm hurling for the 2nd tier

Not so sure it would work for a third and fourth tier
After a few years of getting walloped in Q finals there would be a demand to get rid of that also

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 879 - 13/07/2021 03:46:12    2359241

Link

Like hurling, why not have one strong Prov (Uls 9), with others playing in the Rest (23).

Qual Rd 1 - Rest 11 1st Rd losers and 5 Uls non-SF losers to Rd of 16.
Qual Rd 2 - Rest other 10 non-Final losers, 2 Uls SF losers and 8 Qual Rd 1 winners.
Qual Rd 3 - Both Prov Final losers and 10 Qual Rd 2 winners.
AIC KO QFs - 2 Prov Champs and 6 Qual Rd 3 winners.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2150 - 14/07/2021 06:03:26    2359637

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Like hurling, why not have one strong Prov (Uls 9), with others playing in the Rest (23).

Qual Rd 1 - Rest 11 1st Rd losers and 5 Uls non-SF losers to Rd of 16.
Qual Rd 2 - Rest other 10 non-Final losers, 2 Uls SF losers and 8 Qual Rd 1 winners.
Qual Rd 3 - Both Prov Final losers and 10 Qual Rd 2 winners.
AIC KO QFs - 2 Prov Champs and 6 Qual Rd 3 winners."
Because that diminishes all the other provinces. saying theyre not as good as the Ulster championship in terms of quality or anything else.
you love this realignment thing where its very symettrical but that doesnt at all need to be the case..

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2549 - 14/07/2021 09:57:07    2359673

Link

But Ulster is the only Prov worth keeping. Symmetry is a bonus, not the driver.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2150 - 14/07/2021 23:57:57    2359980

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Like hurling, why not have one strong Prov (Uls 9), with others playing in the Rest (23).

Qual Rd 1 - Rest 11 1st Rd losers and 5 Uls non-SF losers to Rd of 16.
Qual Rd 2 - Rest other 10 non-Final losers, 2 Uls SF losers and 8 Qual Rd 1 winners.
Qual Rd 3 - Both Prov Final losers and 10 Qual Rd 2 winners.
AIC KO QFs - 2 Prov Champs and 6 Qual Rd 3 winners."
Interesting Omahunt. Original and still to an extent preserves the idea of a provincial championship.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5688 - 15/07/2021 13:29:17    2360115

Link