The hurling round robins were brilliant in 2018 and 2019 in the hurling championship. Obviously the gap between the counties in football is far bigger than the counties in hurling but it may make provincials more interesting.
The round robins could look something like
Munster Group Kerry (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Cork (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Clare (B Championship) Tipperary (B Championship) Limerick (C Championship) Waterford (C Championship)
Leinster Group 1 Dublin (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Kildare (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Offaly (B Championship) Longford (B Championship) Wicklow (C Championship) Carlow (C Championship)
Leinster Group 2 Meath (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Westmeath (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Laois (B Championship) Louth (B Championship) Wexford (C Championship) Kilkenny (possibly in the future) (C Championship)
Connacht Group Mayo (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Roscommon (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Galway (B Championship) Leitrim (B Championship) Sligo (C Championship) London (C Championship)
Ulster Group 1 Tyrone (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Monaghan (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Cavan (B Championship) Down (B Championship) Antrim (C Championship) British Team (C Championship)
Ulster Group 2 Donegal (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Armagh (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Derry (B Championship) Fermanagh (B Championship) British Team (C Championship) British Team (C Championship)
Possibly invite British counties in the future to make all 6 groups with 6 counties
Senior Championship Preliminary QF's 4 Leinster and Ulster Semi finalists 4 Provincial runners ups
Quarter Finals 4 provincial winners 4 Preliminary QF winners
B and C Championships, like the senior Championship, are 12 team knockout competitions. New York can enter C championships
Benefits 1 Ulster Championship awarded more teams in the senior championship 2 Counties have equal chances of AI glory 3 Weaker counties knocked out at provincial championships have realistic competitions to win (B and C championships) 4 Format looks more professional and more games for players and fans (at least 5 championship matches and very max 10 matches to win all Ireland)
Obviously there will be a few hammering but realistically hammering will happen regardless of what structure is in place
Thoughts? Curious to know what people think
GAA2424 (Cork) - Posts: 4 - 03/07/2021 22:14:07
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Replying To GAA2424: "The hurling round robins were brilliant in 2018 and 2019 in the hurling championship. Obviously the gap between the counties in football is far bigger than the counties in hurling but it may make provincials more interesting.
The round robins could look something like
Munster Group Kerry (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Cork (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Clare (B Championship) Tipperary (B Championship) Limerick (C Championship) Waterford (C Championship)
Leinster Group 1 Dublin (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Kildare (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Offaly (B Championship) Longford (B Championship) Wicklow (C Championship) Carlow (C Championship)
Leinster Group 2 Meath (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Westmeath (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Laois (B Championship) Louth (B Championship) Wexford (C Championship) Kilkenny (possibly in the future) (C Championship)
Connacht Group Mayo (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Roscommon (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Galway (B Championship) Leitrim (B Championship) Sligo (C Championship) London (C Championship)
Ulster Group 1 Tyrone (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Monaghan (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Cavan (B Championship) Down (B Championship) Antrim (C Championship) British Team (C Championship)
Ulster Group 2 Donegal (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Armagh (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Derry (B Championship) Fermanagh (B Championship) British Team (C Championship) British Team (C Championship)
Possibly invite British counties in the future to make all 6 groups with 6 counties
Senior Championship Preliminary QF's 4 Leinster and Ulster Semi finalists 4 Provincial runners ups
Quarter Finals 4 provincial winners 4 Preliminary QF winners
B and C Championships, like the senior Championship, are 12 team knockout competitions. New York can enter C championships
Benefits 1 Ulster Championship awarded more teams in the senior championship 2 Counties have equal chances of AI glory 3 Weaker counties knocked out at provincial championships have realistic competitions to win (B and C championships) 4 Format looks more professional and more games for players and fans (at least 5 championship matches and very max 10 matches to win all Ireland)
Obviously there will be a few hammering but realistically hammering will happen regardless of what structure is in place
Thoughts? Curious to know what people think" Trying to get my head around it but from what I make of it it is certainly interesting and gives weaker teams more to aim for. You might be onto something there Gaa2424.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3625 - 03/07/2021 22:50:23
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Replying To GAA2424: "The hurling round robins were brilliant in 2018 and 2019 in the hurling championship. Obviously the gap between the counties in football is far bigger than the counties in hurling but it may make provincials more interesting.
The round robins could look something like
Munster Group Kerry (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Cork (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Clare (B Championship) Tipperary (B Championship) Limerick (C Championship) Waterford (C Championship)
Leinster Group 1 Dublin (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Kildare (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Offaly (B Championship) Longford (B Championship) Wicklow (C Championship) Carlow (C Championship)
Leinster Group 2 Meath (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Westmeath (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Laois (B Championship) Louth (B Championship) Wexford (C Championship) Kilkenny (possibly in the future) (C Championship)
Connacht Group Mayo (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Roscommon (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Galway (B Championship) Leitrim (B Championship) Sligo (C Championship) London (C Championship)
Ulster Group 1 Tyrone (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Monaghan (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Cavan (B Championship) Down (B Championship) Antrim (C Championship) British Team (C Championship)
Ulster Group 2 Donegal (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Armagh (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Derry (B Championship) Fermanagh (B Championship) British Team (C Championship) British Team (C Championship)
Possibly invite British counties in the future to make all 6 groups with 6 counties
Senior Championship Preliminary QF's 4 Leinster and Ulster Semi finalists 4 Provincial runners ups
Quarter Finals 4 provincial winners 4 Preliminary QF winners
B and C Championships, like the senior Championship, are 12 team knockout competitions. New York can enter C championships
Benefits 1 Ulster Championship awarded more teams in the senior championship 2 Counties have equal chances of AI glory 3 Weaker counties knocked out at provincial championships have realistic competitions to win (B and C championships) 4 Format looks more professional and more games for players and fans (at least 5 championship matches and very max 10 matches to win all Ireland)
Obviously there will be a few hammering but realistically hammering will happen regardless of what structure is in place
Thoughts? Curious to know what people think" I wrote the below today on a different thread.
Do we actually watch more games between mismatched teams.
Is anyone crying out for Waterford to now go on and play Cork, Kerry, Clare and Tipperary now that they've gotten hammered by Limerick? Sligo v Roscommon, Galway and Leitrim isn't all that exciting since they've lost to Mayo.
The Provincials are providing the games we need of them as is, lets not drag them out any further. It's not the same as the hurling where teams are evenly matched.
It's not free either. There's only really around 16-18 game weeks that can be scheduled to allow the games to be played in February to July and allow for adequate rest weekends.
Let's not waste them on more provincial fixtures no one wants.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4172 - 04/07/2021 00:29:52
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The British county football teams are bad enough to regularly lose to Kilkenny, but you'd have them entered into the Ulster Senior Football Championship....?
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1639 - 04/07/2021 13:29:33
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Replying To GAA2424: "The hurling round robins were brilliant in 2018 and 2019 in the hurling championship. Obviously the gap between the counties in football is far bigger than the counties in hurling but it may make provincials more interesting.
The round robins could look something like
Munster Group Kerry (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Cork (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Clare (B Championship) Tipperary (B Championship) Limerick (C Championship) Waterford (C Championship)
Leinster Group 1 Dublin (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Kildare (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Offaly (B Championship) Longford (B Championship) Wicklow (C Championship) Carlow (C Championship)
Leinster Group 2 Meath (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Westmeath (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Laois (B Championship) Louth (B Championship) Wexford (C Championship) Kilkenny (possibly in the future) (C Championship)
Connacht Group Mayo (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Roscommon (Provincial Final + Senior Championship) Galway (B Championship) Leitrim (B Championship) Sligo (C Championship) London (C Championship)
Ulster Group 1 Tyrone (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Monaghan (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Cavan (B Championship) Down (B Championship) Antrim (C Championship) British Team (C Championship)
Ulster Group 2 Donegal (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Armagh (Provincial SF + Senior Championship) Derry (B Championship) Fermanagh (B Championship) British Team (C Championship) British Team (C Championship)
Possibly invite British counties in the future to make all 6 groups with 6 counties
Senior Championship Preliminary QF's 4 Leinster and Ulster Semi finalists 4 Provincial runners ups
Quarter Finals 4 provincial winners 4 Preliminary QF winners
B and C Championships, like the senior Championship, are 12 team knockout competitions. New York can enter C championships
Benefits 1 Ulster Championship awarded more teams in the senior championship 2 Counties have equal chances of AI glory 3 Weaker counties knocked out at provincial championships have realistic competitions to win (B and C championships) 4 Format looks more professional and more games for players and fans (at least 5 championship matches and very max 10 matches to win all Ireland)
Obviously there will be a few hammering but realistically hammering will happen regardless of what structure is in place
Thoughts? Curious to know what people think" This feels like an attempt to replicate the success of the hurling competition in football.
The best way I can think of doing it is something along these lines.
National league continues in this shortened format as a development competition. Played February and start of March
Provincial Championships continue as knockout competitions, played end of March and April.
All Ireland is 2 tiers of 2 groups of 8 (similar to the old National League system, just like the hurling championship is similar to their old National League of 2 groups of 6)
Provincial champions qualify for Tier 1 and are seeded 2 to a group.
16 teams are completed by 10 other best teams of the previous season's tier 1 and the finalists from the previous season's tier 2.
Top 3 from each group qualify for the playoffs with top of each group getting a bye to the semifinals.
4th and 5th placed in each group guaranteed their spot in the following season's tier 1.
6th and 7th in each group will qualify depending on which teams win the following season's provincial championships.
8th in each group won't have a spot unless they win their provincial championship in the following year.
The tier 2 championship is 2 groups of 8 with top 4 to quarterfinals. Top 2 in each section get home quarterfinals. There's home advantage for the better ranked teams in the semifinals also.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4172 - 04/07/2021 14:43:42
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Replying To CastleBravo: "The British county football teams are bad enough to regularly lose to Kilkenny, but you'd have them entered into the Ulster Senior Football Championship....?" Yeah. London's junior team compete in it and their senior side is at the bottom of Division 4.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 724 - 04/07/2021 15:16:47
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Replying To Whammo86: "This feels like an attempt to replicate the success of the hurling competition in football.
The best way I can think of doing it is something along these lines.
National league continues in this shortened format as a development competition. Played February and start of March
Provincial Championships continue as knockout competitions, played end of March and April.
All Ireland is 2 tiers of 2 groups of 8 (similar to the old National League system, just like the hurling championship is similar to their old National League of 2 groups of 6)
Provincial champions qualify for Tier 1 and are seeded 2 to a group.
16 teams are completed by 10 other best teams of the previous season's tier 1 and the finalists from the previous season's tier 2.
Top 3 from each group qualify for the playoffs with top of each group getting a bye to the semifinals.
4th and 5th placed in each group guaranteed their spot in the following season's tier 1.
6th and 7th in each group will qualify depending on which teams win the following season's provincial championships.
8th in each group won't have a spot unless they win their provincial championship in the following year.
The tier 2 championship is 2 groups of 8 with top 4 to quarterfinals. Top 2 in each section get home quarterfinals. There's home advantage for the better ranked teams in the semifinals also." League shouldn't be changed. It's a good format. No team should have home advantage in semi-finals.
Move the provincials to the start of the year. Follow up with the League and the Championship.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 724 - 04/07/2021 15:29:18
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Replying To Rolo2010: "League shouldn't be changed. It's a good format. No team should have home advantage in semi-finals.
Move the provincials to the start of the year. Follow up with the League and the Championship." The league is wasted as the secondary competition.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4172 - 04/07/2021 16:16:44
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Replying To Whammo86: "The league is wasted as the secondary competition." Your proposal would make it worse. No county wants that.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 724 - 04/07/2021 16:31:26
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Replying To CastleBravo: "The British county football teams are bad enough to regularly lose to Kilkenny, but you'd have them entered into the Ulster Senior Football Championship....?" I didn't say straight away I just said in the future if they ever get to that level. Ulster groups of 5 work the same only counties just play one game less
GAA2424 (Cork) - Posts: 4 - 04/07/2021 17:31:48
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Your proposal would make it worse. No county wants that." It'd make the league the championship competition.
Really all you need is a Provincial championship and a League based championship, they only take 14 weekends to play those competitions, so there is room for a warm up competition.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4172 - 04/07/2021 18:48:33
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Your proposal would make it worse. No county wants that." The National hurling league was considered an excellent competition that shouldn't be touched before the Provincial groups came in.
Then it became more of a warm up competition because teams were playing enough intense games in the championship proper, so they changed the format.
7/8 games is too much for a warm up competition.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4172 - 04/07/2021 18:56:38
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Replying To Whammo86: "The National hurling league was considered an excellent competition that shouldn't be touched before the Provincial groups came in.
Then it became more of a warm up competition because teams were playing enough intense games in the championship proper, so they changed the format.
7/8 games is too much for a warm up competition." The League format should be left alone and form part of the overall Championship structure.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 724 - 04/07/2021 19:52:23
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Keep NFL unchanged at 7 games per team (4 divs x eight, or 2 divs x2 eights).
AIC with 20 teams, following hurling Prov format round robins. 4 Prov groups of 5 - incl NFL top 18 (low ranked teams reallocated as necessary), and separate Div 3 and Div 4 selection teams. Top 2 in each group to 4 Prov Finals - 4 winners to AI KO QFs, 4 losers v 4 3rds in a QF Playoff Rd.
Works ?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2533 - 04/07/2021 20:08:58
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Replying To Rolo2010: "The League format should be left alone and form part of the overall Championship structure." How do you do that then and allow for more than 8 teams in the mix for the All Ireland but also make the league games between the top teams important?
Like the hurling league around 2015 the current league is the perfect structure for a secondary competition when there's a knockout style championship to follow.
To make the league the championship they needed to have more than 6 teams in the All Ireland.
In football they'd need to have more than 8 teams. 2 groups of 8 just makes so much sense to me.
You're 4 groups of 4 is fine but it doesn't guarantee the 2 best performing teams meet in the final in the way that 2 groups of 8 would.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4172 - 05/07/2021 11:10:10
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Replying To omahant: "Keep NFL unchanged at 7 games per team (4 divs x eight, or 2 divs x2 eights).
AIC with 20 teams, following hurling Prov format round robins. 4 Prov groups of 5 - incl NFL top 18 (low ranked teams reallocated as necessary), and separate Div 3 and Div 4 selection teams. Top 2 in each group to 4 Prov Finals - 4 winners to AI KO QFs, 4 losers v 4 3rds in a QF Playoff Rd.
Works ?" I don't like it because I'd rather a more intense league, where there's something at stake in the games between the top teams.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4172 - 05/07/2021 11:55:31
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Replying To Whammo86: "How do you do that then and allow for more than 8 teams in the mix for the All Ireland but also make the league games between the top teams important?
Like the hurling league around 2015 the current league is the perfect structure for a secondary competition when there's a knockout style championship to follow.
To make the league the championship they needed to have more than 6 teams in the All Ireland.
In football they'd need to have more than 8 teams. 2 groups of 8 just makes so much sense to me.
You're 4 groups of 4 is fine but it doesn't guarantee the 2 best performing teams meet in the final in the way that 2 groups of 8 would." No county wants to change from 4 divisions of 8. It's a good format which gives counties 7 games at their own level.
There is no difference between groups of 8 or 4. The best teams should be good enough to get out.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 724 - 05/07/2021 12:10:47
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What about merging the provinces and rotating the system every year?
It would work like this:
Year 1
Leinster and Connacht merged (17 teams in total +/- Kilkenny/NY/ London). Played on a knockout basis. Winners progress to next round up to final. Losers go the back door route (AI Qualifiers) like it is now.
Munster and Ulster merged (15 teams in total). Format as above.
Year 2
Leinster and Ulster merged (21 teams in total) Munster and Connacht merged
Year 3
Leinster and Munster merged Connacht and Ulster merged
Year 4 and subsequent years, rotate as above.
2 winners of the merged Provincial finals could then meet the 2 winners of the Qualifiers in All Ireland semi finals.
This system would provide a different challenge every year and the likes of Dublin and Kerry would not have straightforward provincial championships. Also, the 4 Munster counties wouldn't be caught in the Cork/Kerry vice like they have been for years
TippRed (Tipperary) - Posts: 42 - 05/07/2021 12:28:47
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Replying To Rolo2010: "No county wants to change from 4 divisions of 8. It's a good format which gives counties 7 games at their own level.
There is no difference between groups of 8 or 4. The best teams should be good enough to get out." Exact same thing was said about hurling before the provincial groups came in.
There is a difference between groups of 8 and groups of 4. Teams get more games, the games aren't dead rubbers because the competition is designed in a way that pretty much every placing means something.
When you divide the field in to 4 you can have the 2 best teams on the same side of the draw.
The 2 groups of 8 will absolutely have the 2 best performing teams reaching the final because 1st and 2nd in each group are kept apart until the final and the top of each group are kept apart until the final.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4172 - 05/07/2021 13:27:03
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Decouple provincials from All Ireland is the way to go. Make provincials the early season comp and play championship on a league/championship basis. With qualifiers to knockout from each division.More from D1 than the others. Also have relegation/promotion playoffs
centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 360 - 05/07/2021 13:43:48
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