National Forum

Have We All Gone Mad?

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=BarneyGrant:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Why are you asking about children in a reply to a post about pub and restaurant owners ?"
Because you stated in that post that all children should get a covid vaccine as soon as possible. I've 4 small children and there is no way I'd give a largely untested and underdeveloped vaccine that is proven to cause blood clots etc to any of them when their risk from covid is minimal. Neither would any responsible parent I know. Another stat that was in the independent, not from a loon on facebook, is that you are twice as likely to develop bloodclots from a vaccine than to die of covid if you are under 40."
Sure you aren't qualified to contradict science, you are saying on one hand that it is largely untested but seem to be satisfied that it is proven to cause blood clots ?

You should really post a link but in any case that shouldn't alarm you even if it were true because obviously millions of people under 40 will be vaccinated so you are not comparing like with like.

I don't think you get the importance of or understand what vaccines are at all to be honest.

In the context of a variant which was clearly making children very ill or worse, of course children should be vaccinated.

I assume your children have received vaccines pre covid ?
"]I'm not sure why you have chosen your online name but I grew up in Africa. As a child apart from all the usual measles, mumps, bcg etc I had regular jabs for yellow fever typhoid and cholera amongst other things. I nearly died of malaria too. All the kids got all their regular proven vaccines on time. I'm not at all anti vaccine in principle. I'm still wary of the covid vaccines. The only widespread testing of these vaccines has been their rushed implementation, which has probably occurred more for economic reasons than public health. There has been no real testing on minors. There have obviously been no longterm studies either. I haven't got any vaccine myself yet although in all probability I will down the line."]It should also be noted that malaria vaccination is by no means fully effective. It is still a massive cause of early mortality and companies are forever claiming to have developed more effective vaccines.

At some stage, the likelihood that coronoviruses are going to be with us for a long time will have to accepted. Either that or the world is going to become more and more like the country where Covid 19 originated."]For sure. They have been with us 30 or 40 years as far as we know and in all probability a lot longer than that."]It's not the viruses which are the problem. it's the stupid humans who continually interfere with nature, that's the problem.

Karma.
"]Cant argue with that Africangael.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3301 - 07/07/2021 12:03:14    2357323

Link

As it stands players are still unvaccinated and putting themselves at risk by playing as it reduces their ability to social distance. Seems to be going well so far but will be tested a bit more as larger crowds are allowed.
I strongly believe for the sake of players and their families the GAA needs to be strong and clamp down hard on anyone behaving in a manner that could spread COVID and especially if it is malicious. There has been a light handed approach taken with Dublin, Down, Monaghan ,Mayo for their transgressions .But more serious breaches are of worry. There was a very serious incident in the Meath v Kildare League 2 semi final where spitting was involved. But no word of any investigation. Regardless of whether the counties involved want anything done or not this needs detailed examination and severe punishment if no satisfactory explanation given.

Nobody whether Player ,official ,or supporter should be spat at .In fact the guards should be involved.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 391 - 12/07/2021 10:18:40    2358884

Link

There was a very serious incident in the Meath v Kildare League 2 semi final where spitting was involved. But no word of any investigation. Regardless of whether the counties involved want anything done or not this needs detailed examination and severe punishment if no satisfactory explanation given.

Nobody whether Player ,official ,or supporter should be spat at .In fact the guards should be involved.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 354


CCCC looked investigated it after a request was made by Meath to look into it. No evidence of McGill being spat at based on video footage available and none of the officials witnessed a spit either.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3656 - 12/07/2021 11:51:45    2358943

Link

Replying To if_in_doubt:  "There was a very serious incident in the Meath v Kildare League 2 semi final where spitting was involved. But no word of any investigation. Regardless of whether the counties involved want anything done or not this needs detailed examination and severe punishment if no satisfactory explanation given.

Nobody whether Player ,official ,or supporter should be spat at .In fact the guards should be involved.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 354


CCCC looked investigated it after a request was made by Meath to look into it. No evidence of McGill being spat at based on video footage available and none of the officials witnessed a spit either."
That may be . But it is not good enough. Did they even talk to the referee. Are you saying everything is all right because the ccc had no video evidence. Matters have to be dealt with even if they happen where no cameras are around. Anyway there was a picture of Mc Gill clearly pointing out the culprit to the referee who didnt seem to want to know.

Players are entitled to know that if they make themselves available during a pandemic this scummy stuff will not be tolerated. Is it to be left to the players themselves to note the culprit for the future.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 391 - 13/07/2021 14:33:12    2359423

Link

Replying To Ashrules:  "As it stands players are still unvaccinated and putting themselves at risk by playing as it reduces their ability to social distance. Seems to be going well so far but will be tested a bit more as larger crowds are allowed.
I strongly believe for the sake of players and their families the GAA needs to be strong and clamp down hard on anyone behaving in a manner that could spread COVID and especially if it is malicious. There has been a light handed approach taken with Dublin, Down, Monaghan ,Mayo for their transgressions .But more serious breaches are of worry. There was a very serious incident in the Meath v Kildare League 2 semi final where spitting was involved. But no word of any investigation. Regardless of whether the counties involved want anything done or not this needs detailed examination and severe punishment if no satisfactory explanation given.

Nobody whether Player ,official ,or supporter should be spat at .In fact the guards should be involved."
There is no evidence whatsoever that outdoor sports are in anyway a risk for spreading the virus. This has been referred to extensively for the past year and has obviously been taken on board even by the Zero covid fanatics.

Spitting is an entirely separate issue. It is a scummy thing to do and anyone who engages in it ought to be banned and dropped regardless of whether there is a health dimension. It is a cowardly lowlife practise designed to provoke a well deserved thump. Fair play to the Meath lad for his restraint. He'd have been carried off on a stretcher back in the day!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 290 - 13/07/2021 19:38:34    2359515

Link

Replying To Ashrules:  "
Replying To if_in_doubt:  "There was a very serious incident in the Meath v Kildare League 2 semi final where spitting was involved. But no word of any investigation. Regardless of whether the counties involved want anything done or not this needs detailed examination and severe punishment if no satisfactory explanation given.

Nobody whether Player ,official ,or supporter should be spat at .In fact the guards should be involved.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 354


CCCC looked investigated it after a request was made by Meath to look into it. No evidence of McGill being spat at based on video footage available and none of the officials witnessed a spit either."
That may be . But it is not good enough. Did they even talk to the referee. Are you saying everything is all right because the ccc had no video evidence. Matters have to be dealt with even if they happen where no cameras are around. Anyway there was a picture of Mc Gill clearly pointing out the culprit to the referee who didnt seem to want to know.

Players are entitled to know that if they make themselves available during a pandemic this scummy stuff will not be tolerated. Is it to be left to the players themselves to note the culprit for the future."
That may be . But it is not good enough. Did they even talk to the referee. Are you saying everything is all right because the ccc had no video evidence. Matters have to be dealt with even if they happen where no cameras are around. Anyway there was a picture of Mc Gill clearly pointing out the culprit to the referee who didnt seem to want to know.

Players are entitled to know that if they make themselves available during a pandemic this scummy stuff will not be tolerated. Is it to be left to the players themselves to note the culprit for the future.
Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 356


Unless the disciplinary process has changed then the CCCC only review incidents that the referee didn't see or didn't cover in their match report.

The brawl took place in front of the 4th official and with a linesman nearby, neither they, the ref or any other official saw a player spitting. Neither GGA Go match footage, or video analysis footage from either team captured a spitting incident taking place.

I'm saying that because 7 officials didn't see it and multiple camera angles picked up no evidence of it either, that there wasn't much else they could do in terms of dealing with an allegation when there is zero evidence to back up it actually happening.

Are you saying that a player pointing at another is enough to suggest something happened that must be dealt with?

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3656 - 13/07/2021 21:44:07    2359573

Link

Replying To if_in_doubt:  "
Replying To Ashrules:  "[quote=if_in_doubt:  "There was a very serious incident in the Meath v Kildare League 2 semi final where spitting was involved. But no word of any investigation. Regardless of whether the counties involved want anything done or not this needs detailed examination and severe punishment if no satisfactory explanation given.

Nobody whether Player ,official ,or supporter should be spat at .In fact the guards should be involved.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 354


CCCC looked investigated it after a request was made by Meath to look into it. No evidence of McGill being spat at based on video footage available and none of the officials witnessed a spit either."
That may be . But it is not good enough. Did they even talk to the referee. Are you saying everything is all right because the ccc had no video evidence. Matters have to be dealt with even if they happen where no cameras are around. Anyway there was a picture of Mc Gill clearly pointing out the culprit to the referee who didnt seem to want to know.

Players are entitled to know that if they make themselves available during a pandemic this scummy stuff will not be tolerated. Is it to be left to the players themselves to note the culprit for the future."
That may be . But it is not good enough. Did they even talk to the referee. Are you saying everything is all right because the ccc had no video evidence. Matters have to be dealt with even if they happen where no cameras are around. Anyway there was a picture of Mc Gill clearly pointing out the culprit to the referee who didnt seem to want to know.

Players are entitled to know that if they make themselves available during a pandemic this scummy stuff will not be tolerated. Is it to be left to the players themselves to note the culprit for the future.
Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 356


Unless the disciplinary process has changed then the CCCC only review incidents that the referee didn't see or didn't cover in their match report.

The brawl took place in front of the 4th official and with a linesman nearby, neither they, the ref or any other official saw a player spitting. Neither GGA Go match footage, or video analysis footage from either team captured a spitting incident taking place.

I'm saying that because 7 officials didn't see it and multiple camera angles picked up no evidence of it either, that there wasn't much else they could do in terms of dealing with an allegation when there is zero evidence to back up it actually happening.

Are you saying that a player pointing at another is enough to suggest something happened that must be dealt with?"]There was no doubt that it happened.

The question is are players supposed to continue playing during a pandemic if the GAA is prepared to leave them exposed to this type of behaviour. It is mealy mouthed to look for high court standard evidence in the middle of a covid situation.

Players are entitled to expect more. I have great respect for Kildare players as individuals but it is a poor reflection on their County Board, management and team that they are not prepared to deal with this and both they and the CCC are hiding behind poor excuses.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 391 - 14/07/2021 10:57:18    2359704

Link

There was no doubt that it happened.

The question is are players supposed to continue playing during a pandemic if the GAA is prepared to leave them exposed to this type of behaviour. It is mealy mouthed to look for high court standard evidence in the middle of a covid situation.

Players are entitled to expect more. I have great respect for Kildare players as individuals but it is a poor reflection on their County Board, management and team that they are not prepared to deal with this and both they and the CCC are hiding behind poor excuses.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 358


No doubt that it happened? Based on McGill's reaction and what Andy McEntee said in an interview afterwards? Hopefully you're not on jury duty any time soon...

I'm not looking for high court standard evidence but at the same time I'm looking for something a bit more solid than Judge Rinder standard evidence.

I'm more than happy to change my mind on this if evidence of a spit ever comes out or if in fact the player allegedly involved confesses that it did happen. Until then though I'm happy to take the innocent until proven guilty approach.

I've a feeling though you had your mind made up on this as soon as it was reported regardless of what evidence, or lack thereof existed.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3656 - 14/07/2021 16:46:56    2359866

Link

Replying To if_in_doubt:  "There was no doubt that it happened.

The question is are players supposed to continue playing during a pandemic if the GAA is prepared to leave them exposed to this type of behaviour. It is mealy mouthed to look for high court standard evidence in the middle of a covid situation.

Players are entitled to expect more. I have great respect for Kildare players as individuals but it is a poor reflection on their County Board, management and team that they are not prepared to deal with this and both they and the CCC are hiding behind poor excuses.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 358


No doubt that it happened? Based on McGill's reaction and what Andy McEntee said in an interview afterwards? Hopefully you're not on jury duty any time soon...

I'm not looking for high court standard evidence but at the same time I'm looking for something a bit more solid than Judge Rinder standard evidence.

I'm more than happy to change my mind on this if evidence of a spit ever comes out or if in fact the player allegedly involved confesses that it did happen. Until then though I'm happy to take the innocent until proven guilty approach.

I've a feeling though you had your mind made up on this as soon as it was reported regardless of what evidence, or lack thereof existed."
There was nothing innocent about it. Both Conor Mc Gill and Andy Mc Entee are very straight people of strong integrity and they gave testimony.
The officials were weak and preferred to not get involved. The CCC were not doing their job.

Main issue is that if the GAA want to run games and bring crowds in during the pandemic, They should at least be taking minimum precautions to protect people. If there was someone spitting at me I would expect the people in charge of the event to ban them .
After the covid clusters linked to gaa finals last year. The government rightly held back on letting us return to games after soccer and rugby. The GAA needs to do better in showing it can be trusted to run events with reasonable disease protection.


Nobody is talking about jail so evidence does not come into it.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 391 - 15/07/2021 09:34:06    2360001

Link

Replying To if_in_doubt:  "There was no doubt that it happened.

The question is are players supposed to continue playing during a pandemic if the GAA is prepared to leave them exposed to this type of behaviour. It is mealy mouthed to look for high court standard evidence in the middle of a covid situation.

Players are entitled to expect more. I have great respect for Kildare players as individuals but it is a poor reflection on their County Board, management and team that they are not prepared to deal with this and both they and the CCC are hiding behind poor excuses.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 358


No doubt that it happened? Based on McGill's reaction and what Andy McEntee said in an interview afterwards? Hopefully you're not on jury duty any time soon...

I'm not looking for high court standard evidence but at the same time I'm looking for something a bit more solid than Judge Rinder standard evidence.

I'm more than happy to change my mind on this if evidence of a spit ever comes out or if in fact the player allegedly involved confesses that it did happen. Until then though I'm happy to take the innocent until proven guilty approach.

I've a feeling though you had your mind made up on this as soon as it was reported regardless of what evidence, or lack thereof existed."
Can I assume you don't know the concept of "balance of probabilities" ?

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 15/07/2021 10:23:17    2360021

Link

Can I assume you don't know the concept of "balance of probabilities" ?

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1436


Feel free to assume away.

I'd be wary of any sporting body enforcing disciplinary action in the form of suspensions or bans without evidence and based solely on one persons word against anothers though.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3656 - 15/07/2021 11:11:34    2360041

Link