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Have We All Gone Mad?

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Replying To realdub:  "Well its seems it can be caught and passed,vaccinated or not. So to put a 'vaccine' into a child's body, a vaccine that has yet to prove itself, is irresponsible in my opinion."
Vaccines greatly help protect against serious illness and death if you do contract the virus, your body is ready to fight it, that's how they work.

Vaccines as well as medicine have saved hundreds millions of lives worldwide , that is provable, the evidence is unquestionable.

I am not aware of any vaccine where the benefits have not far outweighed any perceived risks.

When you say "prove itself" I assume you mean that we do not yet know what if any long term side effects the vaccine could potentially have.

This is a normal question that everyone should consider but as I already mentioned above the weight of evidence is firmly on the side of science.

Most people assume that human Corona Virus is something which only appeared in 2019.

The first human corona virus was discovered as far back as the 1960's.

We've had MERS-Cov and the SARS-Cov outbreak in 2003 so science wasn't exactly caught unprepared when it came to developing vaccines.

It's not the case at the moment but if a variant became very dangerous to the health of children would you honestly hesitate in having your children vaccinated ?

Perceived risk v reward, I know what I'd choose for my family but everyone is entitled to make their own choice.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 05/07/2021 15:09:46    2356583

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "The Brazilian Health Ministry says 1,122 children under the age of 10 have died from Covid-19 since the pandemic started. The Brazilian government records the number people who died from severe acute respiratory diseases -- such as severe cases of the flu, and others.

However, researchers from global health organization Vital Strategies, which works in more than 70 countries around the world, say its studies suggest such case numbers have been severely underreported.

When comparing the number of Brazilian child deaths from such illnesses in 2018 and 2019 with the number of deaths since the beginning of the pandemic, Vital Strategies found an excess 2,975 deaths. The organization says it's likely that the vast majority of these excess deaths -- not just the official number of 1,122 -- were because of Covid-19.


Courtesy cnn"
There are 40 million people under the age of 15 in Brazil. If those excess deaths you mentioned above are accurate, then that, as a fraction, is 1/14333rd of the youth population..
Considering that Brazil has a poor enough health service, avd that it was very slow to enforce the draconian measures that we did, then if anything those minuscule numbers mentioned above damage your argument, not enhance it. I would have assumed it would be way way worse."
I don't think anything that can help save children's lives should ever be described as an "argument".

If you look closely at the quote from the source, it specified clearly that it referred to under 10's yet you have expanded that to under 15's.

You then took this irrelevant number and divided it by the number of known excess deaths in children under the age of 15 to produce a fraction to suit your own narrative when in fact what you should have was calculate the percentage increase of excess deaths compared to average deaths in that age bracket pre-covid and pre relevant variant/s.

I don't know how many people are killed every year on Irish roads due to drunk drivers but I'm sure if I researched it I could produce a fraction that would seem minuscule.

Would that then give me justification to present a case that because the numbers are presented in such a way that drink driving is somehow ok because the risks of dying are so low that nothing more should be done to discourage drink driving and save more lives ?

Of course it wouldn't.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 05/07/2021 15:34:01    2356594

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "And the results of the numerous trials on children taking the vaccines are?"
Why are you asking about children in a reply to a post about pub and restaurant owners ?

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 05/07/2021 16:04:58    2356615

Link

Replying To AfricanGael:  "Vaccines greatly help protect against serious illness and death if you do contract the virus, your body is ready to fight it, that's how they work.

Vaccines as well as medicine have saved hundreds millions of lives worldwide , that is provable, the evidence is unquestionable.

I am not aware of any vaccine where the benefits have not far outweighed any perceived risks.

When you say "prove itself" I assume you mean that we do not yet know what if any long term side effects the vaccine could potentially have.

This is a normal question that everyone should consider but as I already mentioned above the weight of evidence is firmly on the side of science.

Most people assume that human Corona Virus is something which only appeared in 2019.

The first human corona virus was discovered as far back as the 1960's.

We've had MERS-Cov and the SARS-Cov outbreak in 2003 so science wasn't exactly caught unprepared when it came to developing vaccines.

It's not the case at the moment but if a variant became very dangerous to the health of children would you honestly hesitate in having your children vaccinated ?

Perceived risk v reward, I know what I'd choose for my family but everyone is entitled to make their own choice."
Rusk v reward for me, fine, for young children, not a chance.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8591 - 05/07/2021 16:50:47    2356648

Link

Replying To realdub:  "Well its seems it can be caught and passed,vaccinated or not. So to put a 'vaccine' into a child's body, a vaccine that has yet to prove itself, is irresponsible in my opinion."
Vaccines reduce the risk of getting sick, as well as the risk of contracting the virus, as well as the risk of transmitting the virus. Vaccines are very safe. I would consider taking two ibuprofen a greater risk to health. Vaccines have changed the world for the better and are a credit to science.

Just on a side note, there seems to be the growing idea out there that the two astra zeneca jabs are not as effective against the delta variant as other vaccines. This is not really true. While its efficacy is slightly lower in terms of preventing catching the virus (60%), its efficacy against preventing serious illness is approximately 90%, which is pretty damn high.

97Cavans (Cavan) - Posts: 320 - 05/07/2021 17:38:39    2356667

Link

Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "The Brazilian Health Ministry says 1,122 children under the age of 10 have died from Covid-19 since the pandemic started. The Brazilian government records the number people who died from severe acute respiratory diseases -- such as severe cases of the flu, and others.

However, researchers from global health organization Vital Strategies, which works in more than 70 countries around the world, say its studies suggest such case numbers have been severely underreported.

When comparing the number of Brazilian child deaths from such illnesses in 2018 and 2019 with the number of deaths since the beginning of the pandemic, Vital Strategies found an excess 2,975 deaths. The organization says it's likely that the vast majority of these excess deaths -- not just the official number of 1,122 -- were because of Covid-19.


Courtesy cnn"
There are 40 million people under the age of 15 in Brazil. If those excess deaths you mentioned above are accurate, then that, as a fraction, is 1/14333rd of the youth population..
Considering that Brazil has a poor enough health service, avd that it was very slow to enforce the draconian measures that we did, then if anything those minuscule numbers mentioned above damage your argument, not enhance it. I would have assumed it would be way way worse."
I don't think anything that can help save children's lives should ever be described as an "argument".

If you look closely at the quote from the source, it specified clearly that it referred to under 10's yet you have expanded that to under 15's.

You then took this irrelevant number and divided it by the number of known excess deaths in children under the age of 15 to produce a fraction to suit your own narrative when in fact what you should have was calculate the percentage increase of excess deaths compared to average deaths in that age bracket pre-covid and pre relevant variant/s.

I don't know how many people are killed every year on Irish roads due to drunk drivers but I'm sure if I researched it I could produce a fraction that would seem minuscule.

Would that then give me justification to present a case that because the numbers are presented in such a way that drink driving is somehow ok because the risks of dying are so low that nothing more should be done to discourage drink driving and save more lives ?

Of course it wouldn't."]Well in order to prevent road deaths we could always permanently ban cars and bikes and force people to only use public transport? If it saves even one life it will have been worth it right?
(crickets chirping.....)

I appreciate your point re the u 15s, fair enough, but in order to reply to your post I Google checked Brazils demographics and they only provided me with u15. You however have also expanded your numbers when you said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, how do we know? And define "vast majority". The number you mentioned above is also an overestimation.

And I don't think you could make just anything seem minuscule either. Looking at cancer deaths for example, I think we can safely assume that at least one of this forums 30+ contributors will die at the hands of that disease. Unlike covid, I personally know loads of people who cancer has taken, loads too from suicide (about 20 I'd say), I find cancer and heart problems a far scarier prospect than getting covid,and I'm not that scared of cancer or heart disease.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1706 - 05/07/2021 19:33:36    2356701

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "The Brazilian Health Ministry says 1,122 children under the age of 10 have died from Covid-19 since the pandemic started. The Brazilian government records the number people who died from severe acute respiratory diseases -- such as severe cases of the flu, and others.

However, researchers from global health organization Vital Strategies, which works in more than 70 countries around the world, say its studies suggest such case numbers have been severely underreported.

When comparing the number of Brazilian child deaths from such illnesses in 2018 and 2019 with the number of deaths since the beginning of the pandemic, Vital Strategies found an excess 2,975 deaths. The organization says it's likely that the vast majority of these excess deaths -- not just the official number of 1,122 -- were because of Covid-19.


Courtesy cnn"
There are 40 million people under the age of 15 in Brazil. If those excess deaths you mentioned above are accurate, then that, as a fraction, is 1/14333rd of the youth population..
Considering that Brazil has a poor enough health service, avd that it was very slow to enforce the draconian measures that we did, then if anything those minuscule numbers mentioned above damage your argument, not enhance it. I would have assumed it would be way way worse."
I don't think anything that can help save children's lives should ever be described as an "argument".

If you look closely at the quote from the source, it specified clearly that it referred to under 10's yet you have expanded that to under 15's.

You then took this irrelevant number and divided it by the number of known excess deaths in children under the age of 15 to produce a fraction to suit your own narrative when in fact what you should have was calculate the percentage increase of excess deaths compared to average deaths in that age bracket pre-covid and pre relevant variant/s.

I don't know how many people are killed every year on Irish roads due to drunk drivers but I'm sure if I researched it I could produce a fraction that would seem minuscule.

Would that then give me justification to present a case that because the numbers are presented in such a way that drink driving is somehow ok because the risks of dying are so low that nothing more should be done to discourage drink driving and save more lives ?

Of course it wouldn't."]Well in order to prevent road deaths we could always permanently ban cars and bikes and force people to only use public transport? If it saves even one life it will have been worth it right?
(crickets chirping.....)

I appreciate your point re the u 15s, fair enough, but in order to reply to your post I Google checked Brazils demographics and they only provided me with u15. You however have also expanded your numbers when you said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, how do we know? And define "vast majority". The number you mentioned above is also an overestimation.

And I don't think you could make just anything seem minuscule either. Looking at cancer deaths for example, I think we can safely assume that at least one of this forums 30+ contributors will die at the hands of that disease. Unlike covid, I personally know loads of people who cancer has taken, loads too from suicide (about 20 I'd say), I find cancer and heart problems a far scarier prospect than getting covid,and I'm not that scared of cancer or heart disease."]First of all I never said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, that post is courtesy of cnn and I did make that clear at the bottom of the post.

You mention the horrible cancers, heart disease and suicide and we all wish no one would die in such a way but we cant compare them to covid because none are contagious.

We don't need to ban cars to prevent road deaths, it's not the cars which are causing the deaths, it's the humans behind the wheel who are causing the deaths.

That's why we have laws but again a lot of people feel they are above the law, I never seen anywhere in the world with such atrocious and wreck less driving than in Ireland and believe me I've been to some of the most dangerous and lawless places on earth.

Personal responsibly will safe more lives than any law, and we can say the same regarding covid.

I have lost count of the amount of times I have encountered lunatics or had close shaves on the Irish roads.

1972 there were 640 road deaths in Ireland, now it's about 150 per year, 150 too many might I add.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 05/07/2021 21:52:54    2356760

Link

Awful rubbish been talked here.
Ireland is among the safest countries to drive in the world.
In 2019 Ireland had 29 road deaths per million inhabitants, which makes it the second best performing country. The number of road fatalities increased slightly by 1% in 2019 although over the last decade it has fallen by 33%, at a faster pace than the EU average.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 05/07/2021 22:34:58    2356787

Link

Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "The Brazilian Health Ministry says 1,122 children under the age of 10 have died from Covid-19 since the pandemic started. The Brazilian government records the number people who died from severe acute respiratory diseases -- such as severe cases of the flu, and others.

However, researchers from global health organization Vital Strategies, which works in more than 70 countries around the world, say its studies suggest such case numbers have been severely underreported.

When comparing the number of Brazilian child deaths from such illnesses in 2018 and 2019 with the number of deaths since the beginning of the pandemic, Vital Strategies found an excess 2,975 deaths. The organization says it's likely that the vast majority of these excess deaths -- not just the official number of 1,122 -- were because of Covid-19.


Courtesy cnn"
There are 40 million people under the age of 15 in Brazil. If those excess deaths you mentioned above are accurate, then that, as a fraction, is 1/14333rd of the youth population..
Considering that Brazil has a poor enough health service, avd that it was very slow to enforce the draconian measures that we did, then if anything those minuscule numbers mentioned above damage your argument, not enhance it. I would have assumed it would be way way worse."
I don't think anything that can help save children's lives should ever be described as an "argument".

If you look closely at the quote from the source, it specified clearly that it referred to under 10's yet you have expanded that to under 15's.

You then took this irrelevant number and divided it by the number of known excess deaths in children under the age of 15 to produce a fraction to suit your own narrative when in fact what you should have was calculate the percentage increase of excess deaths compared to average deaths in that age bracket pre-covid and pre relevant variant/s.

I don't know how many people are killed every year on Irish roads due to drunk drivers but I'm sure if I researched it I could produce a fraction that would seem minuscule.

Would that then give me justification to present a case that because the numbers are presented in such a way that drink driving is somehow ok because the risks of dying are so low that nothing more should be done to discourage drink driving and save more lives ?

Of course it wouldn't."]Well in order to prevent road deaths we could always permanently ban cars and bikes and force people to only use public transport? If it saves even one life it will have been worth it right?
(crickets chirping.....)

I appreciate your point re the u 15s, fair enough, but in order to reply to your post I Google checked Brazils demographics and they only provided me with u15. You however have also expanded your numbers when you said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, how do we know? And define "vast majority". The number you mentioned above is also an overestimation.

And I don't think you could make just anything seem minuscule either. Looking at cancer deaths for example, I think we can safely assume that at least one of this forums 30+ contributors will die at the hands of that disease. Unlike covid, I personally know loads of people who cancer has taken, loads too from suicide (about 20 I'd say), I find cancer and heart problems a far scarier prospect than getting covid,and I'm not that scared of cancer or heart disease."]First of all I never said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, that post is courtesy of cnn and I did make that clear at the bottom of the post.

You mention the horrible cancers, heart disease and suicide and we all wish no one would die in such a way but we cant compare them to covid because none are contagious.

We don't need to ban cars to prevent road deaths, it's not the cars which are causing the deaths, it's the humans behind the wheel who are causing the deaths.

That's why we have laws but again a lot of people feel they are above the law, I never seen anywhere in the world with such atrocious and wreck less driving than in Ireland and believe me I've been to some of the most dangerous and lawless places on earth.

Personal responsibly will safe more lives than any law, and we can say the same regarding covid.

I have lost count of the amount of times I have encountered lunatics or had close shaves on the Irish roads.

1972 there were 640 road deaths in Ireland, now it's about 150 per year, 150 too many might I add.
"]Cancer and heart disease aren't contagious , but they are preventable, often times very preventable. If we were to take the necessary steps like banning alcohol, cigarettes and fast food,salt, sugar, fatty foods, fizzy drinks, chocolate bars and make our citizens exercise for at least one hour per day, think of the lives we'd save,

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1706 - 06/07/2021 00:06:56    2356804

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "The Brazilian Health Ministry says 1,122 children under the age of 10 have died from Covid-19 since the pandemic started. The Brazilian government records the number people who died from severe acute respiratory diseases -- such as severe cases of the flu, and others.

However, researchers from global health organization Vital Strategies, which works in more than 70 countries around the world, say its studies suggest such case numbers have been severely underreported.

When comparing the number of Brazilian child deaths from such illnesses in 2018 and 2019 with the number of deaths since the beginning of the pandemic, Vital Strategies found an excess 2,975 deaths. The organization says it's likely that the vast majority of these excess deaths -- not just the official number of 1,122 -- were because of Covid-19.


Courtesy cnn"
There are 40 million people under the age of 15 in Brazil. If those excess deaths you mentioned above are accurate, then that, as a fraction, is 1/14333rd of the youth population..
Considering that Brazil has a poor enough health service, avd that it was very slow to enforce the draconian measures that we did, then if anything those minuscule numbers mentioned above damage your argument, not enhance it. I would have assumed it would be way way worse."
I don't think anything that can help save children's lives should ever be described as an "argument".

If you look closely at the quote from the source, it specified clearly that it referred to under 10's yet you have expanded that to under 15's.

You then took this irrelevant number and divided it by the number of known excess deaths in children under the age of 15 to produce a fraction to suit your own narrative when in fact what you should have was calculate the percentage increase of excess deaths compared to average deaths in that age bracket pre-covid and pre relevant variant/s.

I don't know how many people are killed every year on Irish roads due to drunk drivers but I'm sure if I researched it I could produce a fraction that would seem minuscule.

Would that then give me justification to present a case that because the numbers are presented in such a way that drink driving is somehow ok because the risks of dying are so low that nothing more should be done to discourage drink driving and save more lives ?

Of course it wouldn't."]Well in order to prevent road deaths we could always permanently ban cars and bikes and force people to only use public transport? If it saves even one life it will have been worth it right?
(crickets chirping.....)

I appreciate your point re the u 15s, fair enough, but in order to reply to your post I Google checked Brazils demographics and they only provided me with u15. You however have also expanded your numbers when you said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, how do we know? And define "vast majority". The number you mentioned above is also an overestimation.

And I don't think you could make just anything seem minuscule either. Looking at cancer deaths for example, I think we can safely assume that at least one of this forums 30+ contributors will die at the hands of that disease. Unlike covid, I personally know loads of people who cancer has taken, loads too from suicide (about 20 I'd say), I find cancer and heart problems a far scarier prospect than getting covid,and I'm not that scared of cancer or heart disease."]First of all I never said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, that post is courtesy of cnn and I did make that clear at the bottom of the post.

You mention the horrible cancers, heart disease and suicide and we all wish no one would die in such a way but we cant compare them to covid because none are contagious.

We don't need to ban cars to prevent road deaths, it's not the cars which are causing the deaths, it's the humans behind the wheel who are causing the deaths.

That's why we have laws but again a lot of people feel they are above the law, I never seen anywhere in the world with such atrocious and wreck less driving than in Ireland and believe me I've been to some of the most dangerous and lawless places on earth.

Personal responsibly will safe more lives than any law, and we can say the same regarding covid.

I have lost count of the amount of times I have encountered lunatics or had close shaves on the Irish roads.

1972 there were 640 road deaths in Ireland, now it's about 150 per year, 150 too many might I add.
"]Cancer and heart disease aren't contagious , but they are preventable, often times very preventable. If we were to take the necessary steps like banning alcohol, cigarettes and fast food,salt, sugar, fatty foods, fizzy drinks, chocolate bars and make our citizens exercise for at least one hour per day, think of the lives we'd save,"]Cut all that out and there'd probably be more suicides.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 06/07/2021 10:39:17    2356860

Link

Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "The Brazilian Health Ministry says 1,122 children under the age of 10 have died from Covid-19 since the pandemic started. The Brazilian government records the number people who died from severe acute respiratory diseases -- such as severe cases of the flu, and others.

However, researchers from global health organization Vital Strategies, which works in more than 70 countries around the world, say its studies suggest such case numbers have been severely underreported.

When comparing the number of Brazilian child deaths from such illnesses in 2018 and 2019 with the number of deaths since the beginning of the pandemic, Vital Strategies found an excess 2,975 deaths. The organization says it's likely that the vast majority of these excess deaths -- not just the official number of 1,122 -- were because of Covid-19.


Courtesy cnn"
There are 40 million people under the age of 15 in Brazil. If those excess deaths you mentioned above are accurate, then that, as a fraction, is 1/14333rd of the youth population..
Considering that Brazil has a poor enough health service, avd that it was very slow to enforce the draconian measures that we did, then if anything those minuscule numbers mentioned above damage your argument, not enhance it. I would have assumed it would be way way worse."
I don't think anything that can help save children's lives should ever be described as an "argument".

If you look closely at the quote from the source, it specified clearly that it referred to under 10's yet you have expanded that to under 15's.

You then took this irrelevant number and divided it by the number of known excess deaths in children under the age of 15 to produce a fraction to suit your own narrative when in fact what you should have was calculate the percentage increase of excess deaths compared to average deaths in that age bracket pre-covid and pre relevant variant/s.

I don't know how many people are killed every year on Irish roads due to drunk drivers but I'm sure if I researched it I could produce a fraction that would seem minuscule.

Would that then give me justification to present a case that because the numbers are presented in such a way that drink driving is somehow ok because the risks of dying are so low that nothing more should be done to discourage drink driving and save more lives ?

Of course it wouldn't."]Well in order to prevent road deaths we could always permanently ban cars and bikes and force people to only use public transport? If it saves even one life it will have been worth it right?
(crickets chirping.....)

I appreciate your point re the u 15s, fair enough, but in order to reply to your post I Google checked Brazils demographics and they only provided me with u15. You however have also expanded your numbers when you said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, how do we know? And define "vast majority". The number you mentioned above is also an overestimation.

And I don't think you could make just anything seem minuscule either. Looking at cancer deaths for example, I think we can safely assume that at least one of this forums 30+ contributors will die at the hands of that disease. Unlike covid, I personally know loads of people who cancer has taken, loads too from suicide (about 20 I'd say), I find cancer and heart problems a far scarier prospect than getting covid,and I'm not that scared of cancer or heart disease."]First of all I never said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, that post is courtesy of cnn and I did make that clear at the bottom of the post.

You mention the horrible cancers, heart disease and suicide and we all wish no one would die in such a way but we cant compare them to covid because none are contagious.

We don't need to ban cars to prevent road deaths, it's not the cars which are causing the deaths, it's the humans behind the wheel who are causing the deaths.

That's why we have laws but again a lot of people feel they are above the law, I never seen anywhere in the world with such atrocious and wreck less driving than in Ireland and believe me I've been to some of the most dangerous and lawless places on earth.

Personal responsibly will safe more lives than any law, and we can say the same regarding covid.

I have lost count of the amount of times I have encountered lunatics or had close shaves on the Irish roads.

1972 there were 640 road deaths in Ireland, now it's about 150 per year, 150 too many might I add.
"]You have obviously never been in a vehicle in France, Italy, Africa, or the far East so.......

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 06/07/2021 12:09:08    2356903

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "The Brazilian Health Ministry says 1,122 children under the age of 10 have died from Covid-19 since the pandemic started. The Brazilian government records the number people who died from severe acute respiratory diseases -- such as severe cases of the flu, and others.

However, researchers from global health organization Vital Strategies, which works in more than 70 countries around the world, say its studies suggest such case numbers have been severely underreported.

When comparing the number of Brazilian child deaths from such illnesses in 2018 and 2019 with the number of deaths since the beginning of the pandemic, Vital Strategies found an excess 2,975 deaths. The organization says it's likely that the vast majority of these excess deaths -- not just the official number of 1,122 -- were because of Covid-19.


Courtesy cnn"
There are 40 million people under the age of 15 in Brazil. If those excess deaths you mentioned above are accurate, then that, as a fraction, is 1/14333rd of the youth population..
Considering that Brazil has a poor enough health service, avd that it was very slow to enforce the draconian measures that we did, then if anything those minuscule numbers mentioned above damage your argument, not enhance it. I would have assumed it would be way way worse."
I don't think anything that can help save children's lives should ever be described as an "argument".

If you look closely at the quote from the source, it specified clearly that it referred to under 10's yet you have expanded that to under 15's.

You then took this irrelevant number and divided it by the number of known excess deaths in children under the age of 15 to produce a fraction to suit your own narrative when in fact what you should have was calculate the percentage increase of excess deaths compared to average deaths in that age bracket pre-covid and pre relevant variant/s.

I don't know how many people are killed every year on Irish roads due to drunk drivers but I'm sure if I researched it I could produce a fraction that would seem minuscule.

Would that then give me justification to present a case that because the numbers are presented in such a way that drink driving is somehow ok because the risks of dying are so low that nothing more should be done to discourage drink driving and save more lives ?

Of course it wouldn't."]Well in order to prevent road deaths we could always permanently ban cars and bikes and force people to only use public transport? If it saves even one life it will have been worth it right?
(crickets chirping.....)

I appreciate your point re the u 15s, fair enough, but in order to reply to your post I Google checked Brazils demographics and they only provided me with u15. You however have also expanded your numbers when you said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, how do we know? And define "vast majority". The number you mentioned above is also an overestimation.

And I don't think you could make just anything seem minuscule either. Looking at cancer deaths for example, I think we can safely assume that at least one of this forums 30+ contributors will die at the hands of that disease. Unlike covid, I personally know loads of people who cancer has taken, loads too from suicide (about 20 I'd say), I find cancer and heart problems a far scarier prospect than getting covid,and I'm not that scared of cancer or heart disease."]First of all I never said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, that post is courtesy of cnn and I did make that clear at the bottom of the post.

You mention the horrible cancers, heart disease and suicide and we all wish no one would die in such a way but we cant compare them to covid because none are contagious.

We don't need to ban cars to prevent road deaths, it's not the cars which are causing the deaths, it's the humans behind the wheel who are causing the deaths.

That's why we have laws but again a lot of people feel they are above the law, I never seen anywhere in the world with such atrocious and wreck less driving than in Ireland and believe me I've been to some of the most dangerous and lawless places on earth.

Personal responsibly will safe more lives than any law, and we can say the same regarding covid.

I have lost count of the amount of times I have encountered lunatics or had close shaves on the Irish roads.

1972 there were 640 road deaths in Ireland, now it's about 150 per year, 150 too many might I add.
"]You have obviously never been in a vehicle in France, Italy, Africa, or the far East so......."]Oh I have , and that's why I make the comparison, when they have to put adds on tv in Ireland to tell drivers how to use a roundabout , it says it all ! :-).

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 06/07/2021 12:31:42    2356916

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "The Brazilian Health Ministry says 1,122 children under the age of 10 have died from Covid-19 since the pandemic started. The Brazilian government records the number people who died from severe acute respiratory diseases -- such as severe cases of the flu, and others.

However, researchers from global health organization Vital Strategies, which works in more than 70 countries around the world, say its studies suggest such case numbers have been severely underreported.

When comparing the number of Brazilian child deaths from such illnesses in 2018 and 2019 with the number of deaths since the beginning of the pandemic, Vital Strategies found an excess 2,975 deaths. The organization says it's likely that the vast majority of these excess deaths -- not just the official number of 1,122 -- were because of Covid-19.


Courtesy cnn"
There are 40 million people under the age of 15 in Brazil. If those excess deaths you mentioned above are accurate, then that, as a fraction, is 1/14333rd of the youth population..
Considering that Brazil has a poor enough health service, avd that it was very slow to enforce the draconian measures that we did, then if anything those minuscule numbers mentioned above damage your argument, not enhance it. I would have assumed it would be way way worse."
I don't think anything that can help save children's lives should ever be described as an "argument".

If you look closely at the quote from the source, it specified clearly that it referred to under 10's yet you have expanded that to under 15's.

You then took this irrelevant number and divided it by the number of known excess deaths in children under the age of 15 to produce a fraction to suit your own narrative when in fact what you should have was calculate the percentage increase of excess deaths compared to average deaths in that age bracket pre-covid and pre relevant variant/s.

I don't know how many people are killed every year on Irish roads due to drunk drivers but I'm sure if I researched it I could produce a fraction that would seem minuscule.

Would that then give me justification to present a case that because the numbers are presented in such a way that drink driving is somehow ok because the risks of dying are so low that nothing more should be done to discourage drink driving and save more lives ?

Of course it wouldn't."]Well in order to prevent road deaths we could always permanently ban cars and bikes and force people to only use public transport? If it saves even one life it will have been worth it right?
(crickets chirping.....)

I appreciate your point re the u 15s, fair enough, but in order to reply to your post I Google checked Brazils demographics and they only provided me with u15. You however have also expanded your numbers when you said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, how do we know? And define "vast majority". The number you mentioned above is also an overestimation.

And I don't think you could make just anything seem minuscule either. Looking at cancer deaths for example, I think we can safely assume that at least one of this forums 30+ contributors will die at the hands of that disease. Unlike covid, I personally know loads of people who cancer has taken, loads too from suicide (about 20 I'd say), I find cancer and heart problems a far scarier prospect than getting covid,and I'm not that scared of cancer or heart disease."]First of all I never said the "vast majority" of excess deaths are due to covid, that post is courtesy of cnn and I did make that clear at the bottom of the post.

You mention the horrible cancers, heart disease and suicide and we all wish no one would die in such a way but we cant compare them to covid because none are contagious.

We don't need to ban cars to prevent road deaths, it's not the cars which are causing the deaths, it's the humans behind the wheel who are causing the deaths.

That's why we have laws but again a lot of people feel they are above the law, I never seen anywhere in the world with such atrocious and wreck less driving than in Ireland and believe me I've been to some of the most dangerous and lawless places on earth.

Personal responsibly will safe more lives than any law, and we can say the same regarding covid.

I have lost count of the amount of times I have encountered lunatics or had close shaves on the Irish roads.

1972 there were 640 road deaths in Ireland, now it's about 150 per year, 150 too many might I add.
"]You have obviously never been in a vehicle in France, Italy, Africa, or the far East so......."]Oh I have , and that's why I make the comparison, when they have to put adds on tv in Ireland to tell drivers how to use a roundabout , it says it all ! :-)."]If you had driven in Paris or Firenze or Seoul you would know that to say we had more lunatics was nonsense.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 06/07/2021 13:25:31    2356941

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "Why are you asking about children in a reply to a post about pub and restaurant owners ?"
Because you stated in that post that all children should get a covid vaccine as soon as possible. I've 4 small children and there is no way I'd give a largely untested and underdeveloped vaccine that is proven to cause blood clots etc to any of them when their risk from covid is minimal. Neither would any responsible parent I know. Another stat that was in the independent, not from a loon on facebook, is that you are twice as likely to develop bloodclots from a vaccine than to die of covid if you are under 40.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 06/07/2021 13:30:16    2356945

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "Why are you asking about children in a reply to a post about pub and restaurant owners ?"
Because you stated in that post that all children should get a covid vaccine as soon as possible. I've 4 small children and there is no way I'd give a largely untested and underdeveloped vaccine that is proven to cause blood clots etc to any of them when their risk from covid is minimal. Neither would any responsible parent I know. Another stat that was in the independent, not from a loon on facebook, is that you are twice as likely to develop bloodclots from a vaccine than to die of covid if you are under 40."
Sure you aren't qualified to contradict science, you are saying on one hand that it is largely untested but seem to be satisfied that it is proven to cause blood clots ?

You should really post a link but in any case that shouldn't alarm you even if it were true because obviously millions of people under 40 will be vaccinated so you are not comparing like with like.

I don't think you get the importance of or understand what vaccines are at all to be honest.

In the context of a variant which was clearly making children very ill or worse, of course children should be vaccinated.

I assume your children have received vaccines pre covid ?

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 06/07/2021 14:14:40    2356963

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Awful rubbish been talked here.
Ireland is among the safest countries to drive in the world.
In 2019 Ireland had 29 road deaths per million inhabitants, which makes it the second best performing country. The number of road fatalities increased slightly by 1% in 2019 although over the last decade it has fallen by 33%, at a faster pace than the EU average."
Thankfully nobody apart from yourself measures bad driving by deaths alone, post the stats for road traffic accidents and injuries while you are at it.

You do realize that not every bad driver dies don't you.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 06/07/2021 14:31:30    2356974

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Why are you asking about children in a reply to a post about pub and restaurant owners ?"
Because you stated in that post that all children should get a covid vaccine as soon as possible. I've 4 small children and there is no way I'd give a largely untested and underdeveloped vaccine that is proven to cause blood clots etc to any of them when their risk from covid is minimal. Neither would any responsible parent I know. Another stat that was in the independent, not from a loon on facebook, is that you are twice as likely to develop bloodclots from a vaccine than to die of covid if you are under 40."
Sure you aren't qualified to contradict science, you are saying on one hand that it is largely untested but seem to be satisfied that it is proven to cause blood clots ?

You should really post a link but in any case that shouldn't alarm you even if it were true because obviously millions of people under 40 will be vaccinated so you are not comparing like with like.

I don't think you get the importance of or understand what vaccines are at all to be honest.

In the context of a variant which was clearly making children very ill or worse, of course children should be vaccinated.

I assume your children have received vaccines pre covid ?"]I'm not sure why you have chosen your online name but I grew up in Africa. As a child apart from all the usual measles, mumps, bcg etc I had regular jabs for yellow fever typhoid and cholera amongst other things. I nearly died of malaria too. All the kids got all their regular proven vaccines on time. I'm not at all anti vaccine in principle. I'm still wary of the covid vaccines. The only widespread testing of these vaccines has been their rushed implementation, which has probably occurred more for economic reasons than public health. There has been no real testing on minors. There have obviously been no longterm studies either. I haven't got any vaccine myself yet although in all probability I will down the line.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 06/07/2021 16:33:15    2357039

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Why are you asking about children in a reply to a post about pub and restaurant owners ?"
Because you stated in that post that all children should get a covid vaccine as soon as possible. I've 4 small children and there is no way I'd give a largely untested and underdeveloped vaccine that is proven to cause blood clots etc to any of them when their risk from covid is minimal. Neither would any responsible parent I know. Another stat that was in the independent, not from a loon on facebook, is that you are twice as likely to develop bloodclots from a vaccine than to die of covid if you are under 40."
Sure you aren't qualified to contradict science, you are saying on one hand that it is largely untested but seem to be satisfied that it is proven to cause blood clots ?

You should really post a link but in any case that shouldn't alarm you even if it were true because obviously millions of people under 40 will be vaccinated so you are not comparing like with like.

I don't think you get the importance of or understand what vaccines are at all to be honest.

In the context of a variant which was clearly making children very ill or worse, of course children should be vaccinated.

I assume your children have received vaccines pre covid ?"]I'm not sure why you have chosen your online name but I grew up in Africa. As a child apart from all the usual measles, mumps, bcg etc I had regular jabs for yellow fever typhoid and cholera amongst other things. I nearly died of malaria too. All the kids got all their regular proven vaccines on time. I'm not at all anti vaccine in principle. I'm still wary of the covid vaccines. The only widespread testing of these vaccines has been their rushed implementation, which has probably occurred more for economic reasons than public health. There has been no real testing on minors. There have obviously been no longterm studies either. I haven't got any vaccine myself yet although in all probability I will down the line."]It should also be noted that malaria vaccination is by no means fully effective. It is still a massive cause of early mortality and companies are forever claiming to have developed more effective vaccines.

At some stage, the likelihood that coronoviruses are going to be with us for a long time will have to accepted. Either that or the world is going to become more and more like the country where Covid 19 originated.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2557 - 06/07/2021 22:34:02    2357184

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "
Replying To Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Why are you asking about children in a reply to a post about pub and restaurant owners ?"
Because you stated in that post that all children should get a covid vaccine as soon as possible. I've 4 small children and there is no way I'd give a largely untested and underdeveloped vaccine that is proven to cause blood clots etc to any of them when their risk from covid is minimal. Neither would any responsible parent I know. Another stat that was in the independent, not from a loon on facebook, is that you are twice as likely to develop bloodclots from a vaccine than to die of covid if you are under 40."
Sure you aren't qualified to contradict science, you are saying on one hand that it is largely untested but seem to be satisfied that it is proven to cause blood clots ?

You should really post a link but in any case that shouldn't alarm you even if it were true because obviously millions of people under 40 will be vaccinated so you are not comparing like with like.

I don't think you get the importance of or understand what vaccines are at all to be honest.

In the context of a variant which was clearly making children very ill or worse, of course children should be vaccinated.

I assume your children have received vaccines pre covid ?"]I'm not sure why you have chosen your online name but I grew up in Africa. As a child apart from all the usual measles, mumps, bcg etc I had regular jabs for yellow fever typhoid and cholera amongst other things. I nearly died of malaria too. All the kids got all their regular proven vaccines on time. I'm not at all anti vaccine in principle. I'm still wary of the covid vaccines. The only widespread testing of these vaccines has been their rushed implementation, which has probably occurred more for economic reasons than public health. There has been no real testing on minors. There have obviously been no longterm studies either. I haven't got any vaccine myself yet although in all probability I will down the line."]It should also be noted that malaria vaccination is by no means fully effective. It is still a massive cause of early mortality and companies are forever claiming to have developed more effective vaccines.

At some stage, the likelihood that coronoviruses are going to be with us for a long time will have to accepted. Either that or the world is going to become more and more like the country where Covid 19 originated."]For sure. They have been with us 30 or 40 years as far as we know and in all probability a lot longer than that.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 07/07/2021 10:47:51    2357279

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To BarneyGrant:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "[quote=Viking66:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "Why are you asking about children in a reply to a post about pub and restaurant owners ?"
Because you stated in that post that all children should get a covid vaccine as soon as possible. I've 4 small children and there is no way I'd give a largely untested and underdeveloped vaccine that is proven to cause blood clots etc to any of them when their risk from covid is minimal. Neither would any responsible parent I know. Another stat that was in the independent, not from a loon on facebook, is that you are twice as likely to develop bloodclots from a vaccine than to die of covid if you are under 40."
Sure you aren't qualified to contradict science, you are saying on one hand that it is largely untested but seem to be satisfied that it is proven to cause blood clots ?

You should really post a link but in any case that shouldn't alarm you even if it were true because obviously millions of people under 40 will be vaccinated so you are not comparing like with like.

I don't think you get the importance of or understand what vaccines are at all to be honest.

In the context of a variant which was clearly making children very ill or worse, of course children should be vaccinated.

I assume your children have received vaccines pre covid ?"]I'm not sure why you have chosen your online name but I grew up in Africa. As a child apart from all the usual measles, mumps, bcg etc I had regular jabs for yellow fever typhoid and cholera amongst other things. I nearly died of malaria too. All the kids got all their regular proven vaccines on time. I'm not at all anti vaccine in principle. I'm still wary of the covid vaccines. The only widespread testing of these vaccines has been their rushed implementation, which has probably occurred more for economic reasons than public health. There has been no real testing on minors. There have obviously been no longterm studies either. I haven't got any vaccine myself yet although in all probability I will down the line."]It should also be noted that malaria vaccination is by no means fully effective. It is still a massive cause of early mortality and companies are forever claiming to have developed more effective vaccines.

At some stage, the likelihood that coronoviruses are going to be with us for a long time will have to accepted. Either that or the world is going to become more and more like the country where Covid 19 originated."]For sure. They have been with us 30 or 40 years as far as we know and in all probability a lot longer than that."]It's not the viruses which are the problem. it's the stupid humans who continually interfere with nature, that's the problem.

Karma.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 07/07/2021 11:19:31    2357296

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