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Sorest AI Final Loss

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Replying To johnocarroll17:  "Mind you - in 1985 both semifinals went to replays. Galway threw it away v Dublin in 1983. They also left Cork off the hook in the 1987 semifinal. And Mayo could have won the AI in 1989. Yes no wins but a few close calls."
I don't remember Galway throwing anything away in '83, besides a few digs :D

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8589 - 03/07/2021 16:37:10    2355649

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Years ago, when going to matches in the 1980's I remember some old Meath supporters used to say that Meath had a great chance of winning in 1951 but we're victims of another success that year.
Meath won the league that year and were given the opportunity to go over to New York to play New York later on. The team vaccinations, which were needed for traveling to the USA back then kept being put off due to progress in the championship. Meath reached the All Ireland final that year against Mayo but ended up having to get vaccinations just before that All Ireland final so they would be ok to travel over to New York afterwards. This was suspossed to have resulted in a sub standard performance in the final.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1346 - 04/07/2021 12:24:39    2355963

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I don't think any Connaught team nor Ulster team beat any Munster or Leinster team during the 70 s or 80s.Those two decades Ulster were considered the weakest province with Connaught a little better. The only time a team from either province got to a final was by beating each other."
In Tyrone, certainly up to 86, nobody took the AI seriously. That may sound ridiculous, and hard to believe, but it's the truth. Partly this was about low self esteem. Most Ulster counties were convinced they'd never beat Dublin or Kerry, so it was pointless trying. The Ulster championship was the goal, and then you had a big day out in Dublin.

I'm old enough to remember Tyrone teams training well and being v focussed on Ulster, and then lapsing into party-mode after the Ulster final.

Tyrone played Cork in 73. There wasn't even a team bus. Individuals getting lifts from friends and family. Guys playing the next day, the previous evening, drinking in their local in a village in Tyrone! Downing shots, everyone cheering. Unbelievable stuff. Meantime, the Cork lads were already in their hotel! A friend of mine was down for the match. He returned to his hotel at 3am, a bit drunk. But that was ok - he was just a fan. Going into the hotel, he heard his name shouted, looking up, a first team Tyrone player (who shall remain nameless), "mooning" out the window at him, cheering, drunk as a skunk, at 3 am.

Such was the level of "preparation". Pat King scored a goal for Tyrone v Cork, but he was un-typical as he was teetotal and ahead of his time in relation to fitness.

Down aside, there was a definite Ulster inferiority complex back then, a feeling you were going to be beat anyway, so you just turned the occasion into a big party.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 04/07/2021 13:58:33    2355988

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Replying To essmac:  "In Tyrone, certainly up to 86, nobody took the AI seriously. That may sound ridiculous, and hard to believe, but it's the truth. Partly this was about low self esteem. Most Ulster counties were convinced they'd never beat Dublin or Kerry, so it was pointless trying. The Ulster championship was the goal, and then you had a big day out in Dublin.

I'm old enough to remember Tyrone teams training well and being v focussed on Ulster, and then lapsing into party-mode after the Ulster final.

Tyrone played Cork in 73. There wasn't even a team bus. Individuals getting lifts from friends and family. Guys playing the next day, the previous evening, drinking in their local in a village in Tyrone! Downing shots, everyone cheering. Unbelievable stuff. Meantime, the Cork lads were already in their hotel! A friend of mine was down for the match. He returned to his hotel at 3am, a bit drunk. But that was ok - he was just a fan. Going into the hotel, he heard his name shouted, looking up, a first team Tyrone player (who shall remain nameless), "mooning" out the window at him, cheering, drunk as a skunk, at 3 am.

Such was the level of "preparation". Pat King scored a goal for Tyrone v Cork, but he was un-typical as he was teetotal and ahead of his time in relation to fitness.

Down aside, there was a definite Ulster inferiority complex back then, a feeling you were going to be beat anyway, so you just turned the occasion into a big party."
Understandable under the circumstances I suppose.
Considering all that was going on during those years the northern teams done well to keep going.
Great to see Derry compete in Croke Park again recently.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 04/07/2021 16:04:51    2356027

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Replying To essmac:  "In Tyrone, certainly up to 86, nobody took the AI seriously. That may sound ridiculous, and hard to believe, but it's the truth. Partly this was about low self esteem. Most Ulster counties were convinced they'd never beat Dublin or Kerry, so it was pointless trying. The Ulster championship was the goal, and then you had a big day out in Dublin.

I'm old enough to remember Tyrone teams training well and being v focussed on Ulster, and then lapsing into party-mode after the Ulster final.

Tyrone played Cork in 73. There wasn't even a team bus. Individuals getting lifts from friends and family. Guys playing the next day, the previous evening, drinking in their local in a village in Tyrone! Downing shots, everyone cheering. Unbelievable stuff. Meantime, the Cork lads were already in their hotel! A friend of mine was down for the match. He returned to his hotel at 3am, a bit drunk. But that was ok - he was just a fan. Going into the hotel, he heard his name shouted, looking up, a first team Tyrone player (who shall remain nameless), "mooning" out the window at him, cheering, drunk as a skunk, at 3 am.

Such was the level of "preparation". Pat King scored a goal for Tyrone v Cork, but he was un-typical as he was teetotal and ahead of his time in relation to fitness.

Down aside, there was a definite Ulster inferiority complex back then, a feeling you were going to be beat anyway, so you just turned the occasion into a big party."
I would say that up to the start of the1990's the feeling would have been that the old straight knock system was advantageous to the Ulster and Connaught football counties for the reason that, most of the time, the standard it took to win a Leinster or Munster football championship was higher than what was taken to win an Ulster or Connaught championship yet the Ulster and Connaught champions were guaranteed spots in the last 4 of the championship. Back then once every 3 years the Leinster and Munster champions would play in the semi final and it would be considered the real All Ireland final by the GAA public.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1346 - 04/07/2021 18:46:20    2356139

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I would say that up to the start of the1990's the feeling would have been that the old straight knock system was advantageous to the Ulster and Connaught football counties for the reason that, most of the time, the standard it took to win a Leinster or Munster football championship was higher than what was taken to win an Ulster or Connaught championship yet the Ulster and Connaught champions were guaranteed spots in the last 4 of the championship. Back then once every 3 years the Leinster and Munster champions would play in the semi final and it would be considered the real All Ireland final by the GAA public."
To answer the initial question, it's 1930.

PearseBro (Monaghan) - Posts: 459 - 05/07/2021 13:29:39    2356528

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Definitely 1991 against Down, now Down deserved the win but 5 more minutes and Meath would most likely have won having played over 10 matches in that campaign

AthboyCelt (Meath) - Posts: 147 - 05/07/2021 15:01:06    2356579

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes Johno two draws in 85 semis but both replays were won easy enough. Yes Galway messed up in 83 and Mayo unlucky in 89 but Cork prob better team. Rossies also unlucky in 80 v Kerry. True a few close calls but alot of one sided losses too that time for Connaught and Ulster teams. Believe it or not i think the unluckiest team in that era were Cork. They were def the 2nd or 3rd best team in the country but came up against a fab Kerry team and there was no back door then."
Mick O'Dwyer also said that too about Cork being the second best team in Ireland at that time!

johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 05/07/2021 16:12:50    2356622

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Replying To johnocarroll17:  "Mick O'Dwyer also said that too about Cork being the second best team in Ireland at that time!"
True Johnno

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 05/07/2021 17:27:12    2356661

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I would say that up to the start of the1990's the feeling would have been that the old straight knock system was advantageous to the Ulster and Connaught football counties for the reason that, most of the time, the standard it took to win a Leinster or Munster football championship was higher than what was taken to win an Ulster or Connaught championship yet the Ulster and Connaught champions were guaranteed spots in the last 4 of the championship. Back then once every 3 years the Leinster and Munster champions would play in the semi final and it would be considered the real All Ireland final by the GAA public."
Connacht and Ulster were always seen as the poorer relations and there was a bit of arrogance from the other two. I remember Kildare being red hot favs in 1998 Nd Galway Beaty them in the final. Similar happened in 2001 just because Meath walloped a Kerry team that didn't show up they were automatically favs but Galway upskittled them in the final.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 06/07/2021 08:14:45    2356823

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Galway losing to Dublin in 1983 was a particularly sore one for my father. He was a proud Galway man and had seen Galway lose plenty of finals in both hurling and football. The 1981 and 1990 hurling finals were tough to take for him but ever after he couldn't talk about 1983.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 06/07/2021 09:58:43    2356842

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Has to be the 2018 final v Limerick. So many games with replays that year v Kilkenny and clare. Played Kilkenny 3 times that year win 2 and drew one, If we had another week before the final I think bodies should have been right. And then to nearly draw it with an unbelievable comeback in the finish. But very disappointing .

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 06/07/2021 11:09:26    2356869

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Connacht and Ulster were always seen as the poorer relations and there was a bit of arrogance from the other two. I remember Kildare being red hot favs in 1998 Nd Galway Beaty them in the final. Similar happened in 2001 just because Meath walloped a Kerry team that didn't show up they were automatically favs but Galway upskittled them in the final."
Yeah maybe a bit of arrogance but mainly confidence or over confidence but that's only natural in a way. It's not there now and for good reason.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 06/07/2021 11:19:42    2356874

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Replying To ecad123:  "Has to be the 2018 final v Limerick. So many games with replays that year v Kilkenny and clare. Played Kilkenny 3 times that year win 2 and drew one, If we had another week before the final I think bodies should have been right. And then to nearly draw it with an unbelievable comeback in the finish. But very disappointing ."
If we had lost that game I think it would have been worse than 1994..
I feel chills just thinking about it.. Would have been so typical of limerick to snatch defeat from the Jaws of victory after being 8 up on 70 mins..

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1062 - 06/07/2021 11:23:26    2356875

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From a Tyrone point of view the loss in 1995 was hard to take. Never got going and the rub of the green was not with us at the end when we could have had a reply.

Galway have lost a lot of All-Ireland hurling finals but do not understand how they lost to Cork in 1990 after such a dominant first half and man of the match display by Joe Cooney.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 06/07/2021 11:31:39    2356882

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Replying To skillet:  "If we had lost that game I think it would have been worse than 1994..
I feel chills just thinking about it.. Would have been so typical of limerick to snatch defeat from the Jaws of victory after being 8 up on 70 mins.."
One would have to say if two members of our Full Back Line ( Mike Casey and Ritchie English) had did not have to go off, it might not have been as close as it was at the end. The face is taht any team that beat Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny on the way to the Final were always going to be hard to beat.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4318 - 06/07/2021 18:47:17    2357080

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Replying To skillet:  "If we had lost that game I think it would have been worse than 1994..
I feel chills just thinking about it.. Would have been so typical of limerick to snatch defeat from the Jaws of victory after being 8 up on 70 mins.."
Honestly don't think anything could top 1994. That's one of the worst ever capitulations in a final that I can remember.
Up there with Jean Van De Velde in the British open when he ended up in a pond with his trousers rolled round his calves trying a recovery shot after a disaster of a final hole.
It was dreadful to watch the whole thing unfold for him but great television.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 06/07/2021 19:07:48    2357092

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Replying To catch22:  "Honestly don't think anything could top 1994. That's one of the worst ever capitulations in a final that I can remember.
Up there with Jean Van De Velde in the British open when he ended up in a pond with his trousers rolled round his calves trying a recovery shot after a disaster of a final hole.
It was dreadful to watch the whole thing unfold for him but great television."
Maybe-but Offaly had in turn wrecked two good teams in Leinster with sharp goal laden bursts. They were eight points down, I think against KK with fifteen minutes gone and they scored three goals in a few minutes and ended up fifteen points up at one stage, although the three in a row chasing KK men brought it back down to 8 by the end. Remember they also did a demolition job on Kilkenny the following year so this was no bad Offaly team and they were worthy champions. Another thing, in relation to Limericks collapse was the fact they had conceded two goals in the closing stages when well ahead against both Cork and Clare that year. Was there ever a serious attempt by the group to rectify this tendency.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4318 - 06/07/2021 21:21:06    2357146

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "One would have to say if two members of our Full Back Line ( Mike Casey and Ritchie English) had did not have to go off, it might not have been as close as it was at the end. The face is taht any team that beat Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny on the way to the Final were always going to be hard to beat."
Oh absolutely... No argument from me on that..we had a fantastic run that year.
If fact I think a bigger factor than our injuries was Skehills injury, the one that added all the extra time..

Flanagan had a great goal opportunity but hit the keeper instead. There should never have been almost 10 mins extra time. We would have been out of sight.. Another goal at that stage was final nail in the coffin for Galway.

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1062 - 06/07/2021 21:23:33    2357148

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From a Donegal perspective, losing to a very poor Kerry team in 14 still hurts. 2 fluke goals but fair play to them.

TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 1141 - 06/07/2021 23:05:32    2357191

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