National Forum

2021 Hurling Championship

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Replying To tiobraid:  "1997 I beleive no leinster team won a game outside of the leninster championship. The same happened this year and with the exception of Antrim all leinster teams were eliminated by munster teams at the first hurdle. That's probably a first too."
Kilkenny beat Galway in Thurles, QF I think, the famous display by DJ Carey.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1178 - 23/08/2021 22:38:38    2374264

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Replying To arock:  "Just seen a clip on social media of Mulcahy standing on and snapping a Cork players hurley stick. Bizarre behaviour, clearly some issues."
It was childish in fairness.

On a side note you really are a true Dub with your talk of "hurley sticks" : )

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1232 - 23/08/2021 22:46:31    2374265

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Why is it always the other teams fault?"
On what other incidents did I blame the opposition for a Limerick players actions.
Go and have a look at the incident and you will see Downey pulling down on his shoulder potentially injuring him and when Lynch goes to follow him O'Mahony jumps into his back for no legitimate reason. Lynch throws him off and ends up getting treatment for his shoulder. The match was well over with no controversial incidents or dirty belts before this so why was Downey trying to injure somebody.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 519 - 23/08/2021 23:17:58    2374271

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How can a person be involved in the "One Cork" committee and also involved in interviewing Limerick managers.

The_Bull (Cork) - Posts: 247 - 23/08/2021 23:51:54    2374274

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Replying To hurlingexpert:  "Not to be jumping too far ahead, but having had a look at all the possible challengers to limerick i think waterford are best placed to take them down if they have all their players available next year. Their potential team is;
1 O'Keeffe
2 Gleeson
3 Prunty
4 Daly
5 Lyons
6 De Burca
7 D.Fives
8 Barron
9 K.Bennett
10 Fagan
11 Gleeson
12 Sh. Bennett
13 Hutchinson
14 St. Bennett
15 Prendergast

Darragh Fives hasnt played in a while but if he can get back fit he would be a huge addition. This team is obviously assuming he can and also that stephen o'keeffe will be back. 2 mahony's could be available again as well, which would be huge. Id be a little unsure of the balance of the forward line, but its a very good 6. A top class manager could arrange them suitably. I also have iarlaith daly in the barry nash sort of role. Possibly one forward and maybe one defender of being a complete 15, but the basis of a team is there to maybe take down limerick."
Unfortunately I can't see Darragh making it back. An injury magnet. He was the only one that really filled in for DeBurca. It will take astute management to get us over the line. We will get some from the present under age but marrying them to what exists will be the challenge. I believe Kiely is a gem and a target style player using that system prudently. Liam will go to Tipp as it would be hard for him to refuse. Despite what they are saying my sources says they are pursuing him vibrantly. I was worried about the defence but they did a better job than Cork in a losing cause. There is always someone else peaking when we are at our best. Those are the breaks and you have to kick on stronger.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1642 - 24/08/2021 00:46:34    2374277

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Replying To ballydalane:  "Good idea re the handpass. Most handpasses are throws now, where the player lets the ball roll off his fingers without a definite striking action. Refs have obviously decided that they'll sacrifice the proper execution of the handpass for the sake of letting the game flow, and most fans are happy to go along with it. Fine. But if that's the case, let's limit the amount of handpasses players can do. Can't have it every way."
Absolutely. It is so blatant. I would say 60-70% if not more of "handpasses" in the final were throws. I'm amazed there has been so little talk about it. Refs aren't whistling them because it's an infringement that has become accepted as part of the game. If referees were to whistle them there would be 60 or 70 frees in every game and matches would just turn into free taking competitions like they were at the beginning of the year. Something eventually will have to be done to rid this scourge from the game but I expect the resolve to do so won't come for another year or two. Limiting the number of handpasses allowed to one or two per play with say the third pass required to be made with the hurley would be a major improvement imo. It would make it possible for the referee to focus on seeing evidence for the "clear striking action". It's virtually impossible for referees at the moment when a limitless amount of "handpasses" are allowed. In a sequence of 10 passes, when 5 of them may be illegal, which one do they blow for? And if they do whistle the dodgy ones, players, managers and supporters will be up in arms accusing the referee of ruining the game and turning it into a freetaking borefest.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1601 - 24/08/2021 01:19:29    2374279

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Replying To tiobraid:  "1997 I beleive no leinster team won a game outside of the leninster championship. The same happened this year and with the exception of Antrim all leinster teams were eliminated by munster teams at the first hurdle. That's probably a first too."
Swings and roundabouts tiobrad. That'll change again too. It always does.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5667 - 24/08/2021 02:34:31    2374283

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Replying To Canuck:  "It was not boring. Those inter link passes were a joy to watch even when the game was out of reach. This is what makes the sport great that those passes even out of defence are moving the ball forward quickly with intent to attack and score. Repeated performances over again will make Limerick very difficult to turn over. I know everyone has an opinion on who will win. However I was surprised that Derek McGrath as a former team manager could seriously pick Cork looking at the physical strength of Limerick, strength on every line on the field, level of fitness, cohesion and a bench that would fill most teams. I would be confident we would beat this Cork team. I would not be confident of beating them in a year or two but neither can I see them turn Limerick over for a few years. If Waterford had all their players available we would do well to get with 5 points of them. That was last year's Munster final and they have kick up another gear.
Congrats to Limerick. This is their day and thanks for the entertainment provided to us all. Cork are stung but will rise to take revenge on the rest of us."
Canuck, Limerick are top of the pile right now and it looks as if they will be there for a while. All great teams have their period of dominance. Look at Dublin. Then Father Time intervenes. Look again at Dublin. This is a very special Limerick team. No other team is anywhere near them at the moment. Their biggest battle in the near future could be with their own motivation. As for the second half being boring, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The essence of any sport, hurling included is competitiveness. Sunday's final after twenty five minutes was completely devoid of any form of competitiveness. The eventual outcome was in no doubt.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5667 - 24/08/2021 03:19:47    2374285

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Replying To hurlingexpert:  "Not to be jumping too far ahead, but having had a look at all the possible challengers to limerick i think waterford are best placed to take them down if they have all their players available next year. Their potential team is;
1 O'Keeffe
2 Gleeson
3 Prunty
4 Daly
5 Lyons
6 De Burca
7 D.Fives
8 Barron
9 K.Bennett
10 Fagan
11 Gleeson
12 Sh. Bennett
13 Hutchinson
14 St. Bennett
15 Prendergast

Darragh Fives hasnt played in a while but if he can get back fit he would be a huge addition. This team is obviously assuming he can and also that stephen o'keeffe will be back. 2 mahony's could be available again as well, which would be huge. Id be a little unsure of the balance of the forward line, but its a very good 6. A top class manager could arrange them suitably. I also have iarlaith daly in the barry nash sort of role. Possibly one forward and maybe one defender of being a complete 15, but the basis of a team is there to maybe take down limerick."
I believe you are correct. Their problem now will be who replaces Cahill. Is there a danger they go back to Davy or Derek? For their sake I really hope they don't. Eddie Brennan could be an option too or Henry or DJ. Its crucial they get it right.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 3110 - 24/08/2021 09:26:23    2374297

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There is so little talk about throws/handpasses because it is nigh on impossible to adjudicate.
Even if a rule was brought it that said "clear and obvious daylight between ball and hand" for example, what happens when the referee is blind sighted? Or in the junior D match where there is no linesman to help the referee out?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1377 - 24/08/2021 10:10:55    2374305

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "Absolutely. It is so blatant. I would say 60-70% if not more of "handpasses" in the final were throws. I'm amazed there has been so little talk about it. Refs aren't whistling them because it's an infringement that has become accepted as part of the game. If referees were to whistle them there would be 60 or 70 frees in every game and matches would just turn into free taking competitions like they were at the beginning of the year. Something eventually will have to be done to rid this scourge from the game but I expect the resolve to do so won't come for another year or two. Limiting the number of handpasses allowed to one or two per play with say the third pass required to be made with the hurley would be a major improvement imo. It would make it possible for the referee to focus on seeing evidence for the "clear striking action". It's virtually impossible for referees at the moment when a limitless amount of "handpasses" are allowed. In a sequence of 10 passes, when 5 of them may be illegal, which one do they blow for? And if they do whistle the dodgy ones, players, managers and supporters will be up in arms accusing the referee of ruining the game and turning it into a freetaking borefest."
If there are 5 illegal handpasses in a sequence, blow for the 1st one. And keep blowing for any illegal passes.
It will lead to dozens of frees and there will be uproar, but eventually players will start handpassing correctly. There is a rule on how to handpass. If players keep infringing, they can't really complain about it. The GAA would need to back the refs to do their job and support them.
That's if we actually want to stamp them out. I'd doubt the appetite is there to do so.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1142 - 24/08/2021 10:16:21    2374309

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Replying To hurlingexpert:  "Not to be jumping too far ahead, but having had a look at all the possible challengers to limerick i think waterford are best placed to take them down if they have all their players available next year. Their potential team is;
1 O'Keeffe
2 Gleeson
3 Prunty
4 Daly
5 Lyons
6 De Burca
7 D.Fives
8 Barron
9 K.Bennett
10 Fagan
11 Gleeson
12 Sh. Bennett
13 Hutchinson
14 St. Bennett
15 Prendergast

Darragh Fives hasnt played in a while but if he can get back fit he would be a huge addition. This team is obviously assuming he can and also that stephen o'keeffe will be back. 2 mahony's could be available again as well, which would be huge. Id be a little unsure of the balance of the forward line, but its a very good 6. A top class manager could arrange them suitably. I also have iarlaith daly in the barry nash sort of role. Possibly one forward and maybe one defender of being a complete 15, but the basis of a team is there to maybe take down limerick."
I agree Waterford look to be best equipped team,but the group munster championship is a disaster in my opinion,not enough time in between games it never ends up equal,1 team always get the short straw,they really need to find 1 more week to extend it,on that basis 22/23 players isn't enough and that's where Limerick have a great advantage

Fkd12 (Louth) - Posts: 28 - 24/08/2021 10:23:14    2374313

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "If there are 5 illegal handpasses in a sequence, blow for the 1st one. And keep blowing for any illegal passes.
It will lead to dozens of frees and there will be uproar, but eventually players will start handpassing correctly. There is a rule on how to handpass. If players keep infringing, they can't really complain about it. The GAA would need to back the refs to do their job and support them.
That's if we actually want to stamp them out. I'd doubt the appetite is there to do so."
It's a typical "sure leave it alone" hurling thing though. Ignoring rules which are printed in black and white. The cynical fouling rule didn't last to long either.

When pundits and podcasts and highlight reels aren't questioning the lack of enforcement then you know it's no going to change.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 3963 - 24/08/2021 10:54:14    2374319

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "If there are 5 illegal handpasses in a sequence, blow for the 1st one. And keep blowing for any illegal passes.
It will lead to dozens of frees and there will be uproar, but eventually players will start handpassing correctly. There is a rule on how to handpass. If players keep infringing, they can't really complain about it. The GAA would need to back the refs to do their job and support them.
That's if we actually want to stamp them out. I'd doubt the appetite is there to do so."
Referees and the GAA hierarchy have already shown they don't have the stomach to clamp down on illegal handpassing in the face of pressure from players, fans, coaches and media.

The only thing to do then is to curb the use of the handpass. Can't give one if you receive one, something like that.

It's a great skill, Dj Carey with his handball prowess was a beautiful exponent of it, but it's been made a mockery of now. It's like players picking the ball straight off the ground instead of rising it and people saying "ah shur, let the game flow!"

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1178 - 24/08/2021 11:12:37    2374322

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Replying To Viking66:  "Just because it was too fast to see doesn't mean it wasn't a definite striking action. Think all inter county hurlers have practiced it to perfection at this stage not just Limerick players."
Well yes actually it does.

If it's so fast that the ref can't see the definite striking action then it has to be a foul.

The main issue here is that it's going to get worse if it isn't dealt with. When the foul hand pass / throw keeps evolving we will have lads using it to pass to a team mate 20 - 25 meters away.

The ball should clearly leave the holding hand before being stuck.

If done properly it would be impossible to release the ball as quick as most hurlers are now doing it.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 3963 - 24/08/2021 11:23:16    2374330

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Replying To ballydalane:  "Referees and the GAA hierarchy have already shown they don't have the stomach to clamp down on illegal handpassing in the face of pressure from players, fans, coaches and media.

The only thing to do then is to curb the use of the handpass. Can't give one if you receive one, something like that.

It's a great skill, Dj Carey with his handball prowess was a beautiful exponent of it, but it's been made a mockery of now. It's like players picking the ball straight off the ground instead of rising it and people saying "ah shur, let the game flow!""
Agreed. The media are as much to blame as the managers. They make it seem as if the world is ending when a few managers complain about refs implementing some basic rules.
DJ's handpasses were exceptional. He could pass it 30 or 40 yards at pace. To pass it that far, there was clear strike on the ball too.
Today's game is full of 5 to 10 yard handpass flicks. The only way to get the ball out quick enough is a throw.
Just in case someone thinks this is a dig at Limerick, it absolutely isn't. Every single team is at this. Limerick are the best team in the country by a distance, regardless of how teams are handpassing the ball. Their skill level in every other facet is better too, accurate passing, first touch, catching and shooting. Just putting that on the record. :)

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1142 - 24/08/2021 11:36:40    2374334

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The hand pass because a problem when Gaa stopped players from dropping hurl to make hand pass. Maybe we bring it back...

Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 42 - 24/08/2021 12:44:04    2374347

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In the mid 1980's it was commonplace for hurlers to hand pass the ball to the net in play. I never liked that & was delighted the GAA for rid of it in hurling & football.

A couple of rules I'd like to see changed:

1 - Change the hand pass so you can only hand pass off the hurley. This would eliminate the throw full stop. If a player is tackled then the change would be that they will try to offload with a stick pass or get the ball on the hurley and then hand pass. I also think it would add to the skill of the game.

2 - Change the steps rule in both codes to allow 6 steps. With both games being a lot faster than say the 1980's & 90's, this rule doesn't seem in line with the modern game.

Watching the Christy Ring documentary 'Man and Ball' when Christy became a selector with Cork he urged players to take plenty of steps when a Leinster referee was in charge. Cork won the all Ireland with his advice.

Aussie Rules - ball needs to be played once every 15 metres and the game is still a great spectacle with movement and power.

A referee is most likely not going to blow for a foul if a player takes 5 steps. However if the rule allows 6 and a player is completely taking the mick with the number of steps, it is easier to blow for a foul on the 7th step than the 5th.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6279 - 24/08/2021 13:25:09    2374357

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Well i dont know what people think
But i really feel we should have our All Ire Final in Sep
For gods sake its only going to be 2 countys involved
We are trying to compress our champioship too much
Every County should have a fair cut at it
With 2 week between each game easily achieved

rhudson (Galway) - Posts: 1334 - 24/08/2021 14:17:48    2374379

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I see some good points on the handpass but I think trying to implement the current rule would be better. Paraphrasing - "there must be a clear striking action"
If people are saying to pause and slow it down to see it - thats not clear. I don't know how you could police but adding something like "the ball must be thrown up 2-3 inches before striking with the palm" might help. I don't know.
I've read a Tipp man saying to change the rule so that it must be struck with the opposite hand - i dont think that is workable and slows the game down too much if he cant get that hand free without dropping the hurl.
I know personally I got into the habit once I hit adult hurling of basically doing what I see intercounty players do and literally throw it while opening the hand wide - opposition players go crazy but the ref doesnt pull you up on it like he would at underage. I've never once got pulled up on it and its now a hard habit to get out of even in drills at training.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 3110 - 24/08/2021 14:18:49    2374380

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