National Forum

2021 Hurling Championship

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Replying To Bon:  "Apologies that should of course have been 14. Super stuff.
When you look at the money in Kildare hurling compared to football and you see the reulsts of Kildare Hurling the past few years its some achievement.
Serious work and coaching going on within the county, long may it continue ."
That sums it up really. The spade work has been done at Juvenile level in clubs and with the GPO's and inter county panel and development panels. I know things have been stepped up in terms of resourcing over the last ten years or so but now its time to really drive things home and ensure that this isn't a flash in the pan. Centrally the GAA should also take note. They enabled Dublin to get where they are in football today and I don't think anyone would begrudge us a helping hand in becoming a consistent performer at underage hurling levels in Leinster where we are beating or being competitive with the top teams. That will eventually feed into senior level too.

Wouldn't do hurling any harm if the likes of Kildare could build on their potential, huge playing pick and underage structures that are currently in place. The GAA should take note and help ensure it continues.

I also think some of the success can be tied to Naas playing some their underage hurling in Kilkenny and Dublin. This might be the way to go for hurling at underage levels especially in the lower tier counties. Playing against the best players at your age group week in/out will only help counties improve.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 07/07/2021 14:11:43    2357381

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A very poor night for Wexford but kudos to Kildare. They were well drilled and out-fought our lads.
Having 11 of starting 15 underage for next year is scant consolation today!

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1941 - 07/07/2021 14:20:30    2357391

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Replying To daytona11:  "That sums it up really. The spade work has been done at Juvenile level in clubs and with the GPO's and inter county panel and development panels. I know things have been stepped up in terms of resourcing over the last ten years or so but now its time to really drive things home and ensure that this isn't a flash in the pan. Centrally the GAA should also take note. They enabled Dublin to get where they are in football today and I don't think anyone would begrudge us a helping hand in becoming a consistent performer at underage hurling levels in Leinster where we are beating or being competitive with the top teams. That will eventually feed into senior level too.

Wouldn't do hurling any harm if the likes of Kildare could build on their potential, huge playing pick and underage structures that are currently in place. The GAA should take note and help ensure it continues.

I also think some of the success can be tied to Naas playing some their underage hurling in Kilkenny and Dublin. This might be the way to go for hurling at underage levels especially in the lower tier counties. Playing against the best players at your age group week in/out will only help counties improve."
Would be great to see counties like Kildare being more competitive at senior level. I've long held the belief that the GAA should be doing more to assist counties like Kildare financially to promote the game of hurling through paid coaches and GPOs, which can only get better for having more than 9 counties competing at a high level.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17840 - 07/07/2021 14:43:21    2357399

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Replying To daveboy:  "We want big decisions that affect matches to be right. We want to help officials. That 2019 semi with tipp v wexford was the first time a referee got help from the stands during a match that I can remember. And it wasn't haweye I'm referring to. It was incident where a potential square ball was debated and the message clearly came from upstairs. Essentially they got the decisions right. The fact it came 24 hours after a blatant 65 was not given in the dying seconds to the reigning AI champions to force ET was the key reason for this. What I find v strange is that it hasn't been used since that I can see. Maybe it should have been used last weekend.

That decision in the GG in limerick you refer to would have been overturned after 30 secs of review. Basically how long it takes to take the ensuing puckout"
Yes for sure for both, to get decisions right and help the referee. Mistakes happen with all the participants in the game and coach's do everything possible to eradicate player mistakes. I don't believe that is the case with helping referees. Often subjective rules as written. Expecting to make calls 100 meters away or cover the same ground following the ball that it took 5 players to move etc. etc.
Technology can do this with the minimum interference in spite of the die hards objection. But even before you get to the technology how about some simple consultation. Last week James Owen made a mistake or a wrong call and no one is trying to execute him. What I would hold him accountable for is if he did not consult any of the other officials who are part of his team. May be he did but I find it hard to believe that another ref (the lines man) watching what happened would agree with his decision and his interpretation of the rule. If so neither understands the rule and that is scary. The 65 not called in 2019 that probably denied Limerick an All-Ireland seemed the same. In that case it is hard to believe that 4 other pair of eyes did not see the deflection. At a critical stages of the game the players protest deserved consultation and like you said technology would have corrected it.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3227 - 07/07/2021 14:51:12    2357406

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "A very poor night for Wexford but kudos to Kildare. They were well drilled and out-fought our lads.
Having 11 of starting 15 underage for next year is scant consolation today!"
While I am delighted to see hurling going strong in kildare, I can't understand why county boards are allowing under 20 teams to field players that are underage again next year, surely it is about developing as much players as possible. I don't like the idea of fielding any one who has another year left in a specific age group at county level as you could be missing out on developing more players that could come good in the future. Underage is about developing players, winning is second, if you can win that's great but giving as much exposure to as many players as possible should be the main factor.

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 07/07/2021 14:56:54    2357409

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Replying To Viking66:  "Would be great to see counties like Kildare being more competitive at senior level. I've long held the belief that the GAA should be doing more to assist counties like Kildare financially to promote the game of hurling through paid coaches and GPOs, which can only get better for having more than 9 counties competing at a high level."
They have been putting in a lot of work in fairness and getting good coaching support. I have family in Kildare and set up in Naas is very impressive. Their underage/schools effort is paying big dividends now at senior club. Seems to be a nice mixture of likes of Naas and revived hurling in Celbridge with the older clubs like Coil Dubh and Ardclough.

The more the merrier hurling competitively. Be up against it next day. not sure who they get - Cats or Offaly.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3879 - 07/07/2021 16:16:33    2357443

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Replying To ecad123:  "While I am delighted to see hurling going strong in kildare, I can't understand why county boards are allowing under 20 teams to field players that are underage again next year, surely it is about developing as much players as possible. I don't like the idea of fielding any one who has another year left in a specific age group at county level as you could be missing out on developing more players that could come good in the future. Underage is about developing players, winning is second, if you can win that's great but giving as much exposure to as many players as possible should be the main factor."
I'd also guess that roughly half the Wexford team last night were also involved against Dublin in the 2020 championship.

HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 556 - 07/07/2021 16:30:38    2357448

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Just checked. 9 players were involved in both games. They'd have been just 18 years of age last year

HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 556 - 07/07/2021 16:42:41    2357455

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Replying To Canuck:  "Yes for sure for both, to get decisions right and help the referee. Mistakes happen with all the participants in the game and coach's do everything possible to eradicate player mistakes. I don't believe that is the case with helping referees. Often subjective rules as written. Expecting to make calls 100 meters away or cover the same ground following the ball that it took 5 players to move etc. etc.
Technology can do this with the minimum interference in spite of the die hards objection. But even before you get to the technology how about some simple consultation. Last week James Owen made a mistake or a wrong call and no one is trying to execute him. What I would hold him accountable for is if he did not consult any of the other officials who are part of his team. May be he did but I find it hard to believe that another ref (the lines man) watching what happened would agree with his decision and his interpretation of the rule. If so neither understands the rule and that is scary. The 65 not called in 2019 that probably denied Limerick an All-Ireland seemed the same. In that case it is hard to believe that 4 other pair of eyes did not see the deflection. At a critical stages of the game the players protest deserved consultation and like you said technology would have corrected it."
Agree with you on all points. Good post

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1198 - 07/07/2021 16:51:01    2357457

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I can't see any problem with players under 20 playing for 2 years at the grade..I have a major problem with fellas not left play under 20 if they play a couple of minutes at senior..they would surely get more benefit and also help their own group..can I also say why are we always so shocked by a result like last night..I know there is massive work and effort going into underage and I hope other counties could follow..it might also be that players involved just took eye off the ball due to playing Kildare,how many times do we see that happening especially at club level..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2628 - 07/07/2021 16:53:43    2357458

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Replying To daytona11:  "That sums it up really. The spade work has been done at Juvenile level in clubs and with the GPO's and inter county panel and development panels. I know things have been stepped up in terms of resourcing over the last ten years or so but now its time to really drive things home and ensure that this isn't a flash in the pan. Centrally the GAA should also take note. They enabled Dublin to get where they are in football today and I don't think anyone would begrudge us a helping hand in becoming a consistent performer at underage hurling levels in Leinster where we are beating or being competitive with the top teams. That will eventually feed into senior level too.

Wouldn't do hurling any harm if the likes of Kildare could build on their potential, huge playing pick and underage structures that are currently in place. The GAA should take note and help ensure it continues.

I also think some of the success can be tied to Naas playing some their underage hurling in Kilkenny and Dublin. This might be the way to go for hurling at underage levels especially in the lower tier counties. Playing against the best players at your age group week in/out will only help counties improve."
Naas and Celbridge would also be the most progressive Hurling clubs in the county too. Smart move playing in Kilkenny and Dublin. Great forward thinking. Naas even sent club volunteers in to coach hurling in the primary school there too.
Its no coincidence that Naas and Celbridge have dominated in Kildare at various levels.
You have to have the right people involved from a young age. Its half the battle. The progressive nature of both clubs have ensured this unlike some of the other clubs who seem to be going backwards and unable to field juvenile teams or amalgamate with others. If Hurling is to keep on the up in Kildare its up to each club to put the work in at underage and start competing again, everyone wins from this.
You look at the size of Newbridge and there's very little Hurling there, some years there's been no Hurling there. Its a shame.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2632 - 07/07/2021 17:59:05    2357474

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Replying To ecad123:  "While I am delighted to see hurling going strong in kildare, I can't understand why county boards are allowing under 20 teams to field players that are underage again next year, surely it is about developing as much players as possible. I don't like the idea of fielding any one who has another year left in a specific age group at county level as you could be missing out on developing more players that could come good in the future. Underage is about developing players, winning is second, if you can win that's great but giving as much exposure to as many players as possible should be the main factor."
Building on results is what is important. Wexford will recover from a defeat but can Kildare build on it by becoming a more competitive hurling county. Hopefully they can and be given the tools to do so.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3227 - 07/07/2021 21:02:46    2357525

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I can't see any problem with players under 20 playing for 2 years at the grade..I have a major problem with fellas not left play under 20 if they play a couple of minutes at senior..they would surely get more benefit and also help their own group..can I also say why are we always so shocked by a result like last night..I know there is massive work and effort going into underage and I hope other counties could follow..it might also be that players involved just took eye off the ball due to playing Kildare,how many times do we see that happening especially at club level.."
Yeah that rule is farcical. I get the spirit of why they wanted it, but I think players aren't flogged the way they once were because all involved are losing if a player is over trained.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1941 - 07/07/2021 21:28:51    2357531

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Replying To johnocarroll17:  "No surprise that happened when you remember who the referee was - John Moore from Waterford.

Did you know - Limerick NEVER WON a championship game with him in the middle.

And - more tellingly - Cork NEVER LOST a championship game with him in charge."
Didn't know that but remember the hurt and lack of fair play he presided over that day.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 07/07/2021 23:31:30    2357551

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Replying To Canuck:  "Building on results is what is important. Wexford will recover from a defeat but can Kildare build on it by becoming a more competitive hurling county. Hopefully they can and be given the tools to do so."
I think this is the key point. Westmeath beat Kilkenny a number of years ago in U21 and half of the KK team are now on the senior team - why doesn't the GAA do more to help the likes of Westmeath and Kildare to become more competitive and to bring these lads through to senior?
It was a humbling night for Wexford, that is for sure.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1941 - 08/07/2021 10:38:22    2357610

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Replying To Canuck:  "Building on results is what is important. Wexford will recover from a defeat but can Kildare build on it by becoming a more competitive hurling county. Hopefully they can and be given the tools to do so."
No reason why they can't but it needs financial support from HQ. It worked in Dublin and Kildare seem to have a solid plan in place.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 08/07/2021 12:54:48    2357650

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "No reason why they can't but it needs financial support from HQ. It worked in Dublin and Kildare seem to have a solid plan in place."
Surely GAA funds are raised to promote Gaelic games and funding hurling initiatives, fulltime coaches and GPOs for a start, in Kildare, Westmeath, Laois, Kerry, Antrim, Down, Carlow etc should be high up on the list of to dos with the money. Abd less emphasis on infrastructure projects in counties that are already strong.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17840 - 08/07/2021 15:42:05    2357736

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Didn't know that but remember the hurt and lack of fair play he presided over that day."
Babs Keating was co-commentating the 1990 AI final on UTV and said the same thing on air.

johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 408 - 08/07/2021 16:17:40    2357753

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I can't see any problem with players under 20 playing for 2 years at the grade..I have a major problem with fellas not left play under 20 if they play a couple of minutes at senior..they would surely get more benefit and also help their own group..can I also say why are we always so shocked by a result like last night..I know there is massive work and effort going into underage and I hope other counties could follow..it might also be that players involved just took eye off the ball due to playing Kildare,how many times do we see that happening especially at club level.."
Yes and if Liam Cahill had played Billy Kiely listed in the subs then he would miss Monday night against Tipp. Waterford can not afford that. Also two of the best footballers went to hurling. Still they won last night and the footballers certainly cannot afford that. Surely in a knock out competition they could be playing with both. Especially as they are not playing senior. The chances of both continuing in the competition is not high. Don't know if it is the mangers or the players themselves is the reason.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3227 - 09/07/2021 21:15:08    2358157

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Why is there a preliminary round in the hurling qualifiers?

There will are 7 teams knocked out before the finals. Just give one a bye?

Last year Wexford lost their first game, a semi final, and then we drawn in round 2 of the qualifiers.

Should the draw not be something like

Leinster 1 v Munster 1
Leinster 2 v Munster 2
Leinster 3 v Munster 3
Leinster 4 v bye

Seeing Laois play Antrim again is crazy. The winner will then have to beat a Munster team just to be at the same level that another team begins the qualifiers at.

I would also argue that in stead of a 'bye' the Leinster 4 team should play the Joe McDonagh winners (Most likely Kerry). The Joe McDonagh could have been played off at the same time and the Munster and Leinster Championships.

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 254 - 10/07/2021 11:30:59    2358248

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