National Forum

The GAA And Taking The Knee.

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Replying To the_creeler:  "You can be sure Dublin would try to do something trendy like doing that, the PR machine would swing into full gear.

The best thing the GAA can do is keep trying to promote the games to foreign born and children of foreign born people, be they African or Eastern European."
Ye know, there have been some really silly posts on HS down through the years, but this is just might be the silliest- and that takes some doing.

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1655 - 16/06/2021 09:09:45    2351342

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I think bending the knee is only a positive gesture. There's plenty on this thread claiming that it's following trends and the GAA should take other routes to fight racism instead of hitching onto the BLM movement.

That is a fair point, but unless these posters are actively working in their clubs to promote anti-racism then I'm afraid these words are just as hollow.

There should be some form of an inclusion officer in every club in the country, and an anti-racism policy should be implemented and forefront. Every adult involved with the club in a coaching or playing level should be well aware of the policies. This is important ESPECIALLY in areas where the demographics of the club are 99% white Irish.

If bending the knee gets us to a point where this happens then I'm all for it.

SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 226 - 16/06/2021 10:36:46    2351368

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There's a discussion to be had about racism in Ireland and maybe even within the GAA, but to my mind transposing the specific political issues of a very different society will generate more heat than light. I also wonder how long this taking the knee ritual is going to last across the sporting landscape.

I have relatives who teach in school in areas of Dublin which have a very high non-Irish population and from what I'm hearing, there's a lot of energy being expended by Dublin GAA into popularising the games amongst immigrant populations, through coaching in schools and whatnot. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some non-Irish surnames popping up on their team sheets in the years to come.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1887 - 16/06/2021 11:02:16    2351375

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Replying To SurelyToGod:  "I think bending the knee is only a positive gesture. There's plenty on this thread claiming that it's following trends and the GAA should take other routes to fight racism instead of hitching onto the BLM movement.

That is a fair point, but unless these posters are actively working in their clubs to promote anti-racism then I'm afraid these words are just as hollow.

There should be some form of an inclusion officer in every club in the country, and an anti-racism policy should be implemented and forefront. Every adult involved with the club in a coaching or playing level should be well aware of the policies. This is important ESPECIALLY in areas where the demographics of the club are 99% white Irish.

If bending the knee gets us to a point where this happens then I'm all for it."
Are there any clubs where the demograph would be 99% white Irish? Probably in the rural areas in fairness but certainly not in any city club. Not even close.
Recent development in the doughiska area here in Galway City for example has seen Castlegars catchment area transform to at least 50% of the kids born to immigrant parents.
The interest in GAA just isn't there unfortunately, not yet anyway.
Kids will more often than not choose a sport that their fathers encourage them to play, and for Africans /Eastern Europeans that's going to be soccer. Most of them wouldnt have even heard of the GAA until they moved here.
Soccer here has benefited hugely from the influx of migrants over the last 25 years in terms of numbers playing the game but I don't think the FAI has pulled up any trees in terms of any anti racism actions.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 612 - 16/06/2021 16:01:05    2351452

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Dublin manager and Monaghan official wouldnt bother taking off their silly Baseball caps for our National Anthem last weekend and fellas are worried about bending knees ???

gerry1414 (Dublin) - Posts: 8 - 16/06/2021 22:58:52    2351528

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If you are a racist just keep your big mouth shut, no conversation needed.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8130 - 16/06/2021 23:02:44    2351530

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Are there any clubs where the demograph would be 99% white Irish? Probably in the rural areas in fairness but certainly not in any city club. Not even close.
Recent development in the doughiska area here in Galway City for example has seen Castlegars catchment area transform to at least 50% of the kids born to immigrant parents.
The interest in GAA just isn't there unfortunately, not yet anyway.
Kids will more often than not choose a sport that their fathers encourage them to play, and for Africans /Eastern Europeans that's going to be soccer. Most of them wouldnt have even heard of the GAA until they moved here.
Soccer here has benefited hugely from the influx of migrants over the last 25 years in terms of numbers playing the game but I don't think the FAI has pulled up any trees in terms of any anti racism actions."
I remember reading a report from the census some years ago stating that a remote district of Co. Mayo was the only part of the State that had a 100 per cent Irish born population. Chances are that there are no such areas anymore.

As for sporting choice, I think it comes down to getting into the schools, as most kids will play what their friends play. For instance, Pakistan-born Sharoize Akram won an All-Ireland U-21 medal with Mayo back in 2016, and is thought to be the first person from that community to win a Celtic Cross. He has said that Andy Moran's school coaching sessions were the spur for him to take up gaelic football.

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/the-first-pakistan-born-all-ireland-winner-has-attributed-his-success-to-andy-moran-332381

In Ballyhaunis also the immigrant population has been key to the survival of the local GAA club.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/jul/14/pitching-up-ancient-sports-for-irelands-most-ethnically-diverse-town

So it seems to me that the GAA has some good outlets to increase participation amongst immigrant communities already without necessarily having to jump on political bandwagons.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1887 - 17/06/2021 09:04:56    2351554

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Replying To realdub:  "If you are a racist just keep your big mouth shut, no conversation needed."
This sort of attitude is much of the reason why the Left keeps losing across the Western world: "If you don't agree with every word of my ideology, then you're my enemy" or "expressing any doubts about immigration or immigration policy makes you a racist".

Suppressing people's right to speak causes more problems than it solves IMO and drives people to extremism. If someone says something bigoted, you have the right to call them out or ban them, if it occurs in a sporting context like the GAA. I was at an League of Ireland match once where an African striker was the subject of some racist abuse and the perpetrator was rightly removed.

And if someone engages in incitement to hatred or violence then there are laws against that which should be enforced.

Ireland thankfully is one of very few Western countries without a strong ethno-nationalist movement like the Front National/National Rally in France, Alternativ für Deutschland or Lega Nord/Fratelli d'Italia in Italy. But I see that changing if everyone who has reservations over the tactics/ideology of BLM and the NGOs aligned with them continues to be censored or shouted down.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1887 - 17/06/2021 10:03:46    2351566

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Replying To Gleebo:  "This sort of attitude is much of the reason why the Left keeps losing across the Western world: "If you don't agree with every word of my ideology, then you're my enemy" or "expressing any doubts about immigration or immigration policy makes you a racist".

Suppressing people's right to speak causes more problems than it solves IMO and drives people to extremism. If someone says something bigoted, you have the right to call them out or ban them, if it occurs in a sporting context like the GAA. I was at an League of Ireland match once where an African striker was the subject of some racist abuse and the perpetrator was rightly removed.

And if someone engages in incitement to hatred or violence then there are laws against that which should be enforced.

Ireland thankfully is one of very few Western countries without a strong ethno-nationalist movement like the Front National/National Rally in France, Alternativ für Deutschland or Lega Nord/Fratelli d'Italia in Italy. But I see that changing if everyone who has reservations over the tactics/ideology of BLM and the NGOs aligned with them continues to be censored or shouted down."
I'm happy for people who shout slurs to be silenced but where I have trouble is when many of those same people doing the silencing don't seem to have a problem when a lady can speak at Yale University about how she fantasises about killing white people, or when the NYT 's head of online content advocates a white holocaust.
Kind of touching on what you mentioned above it's that double standard that is making far right ideology more attractive to alot of young white males.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 612 - 17/06/2021 10:42:37    2351580

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Replying To Gleebo:  "This sort of attitude is much of the reason why the Left keeps losing across the Western world: "If you don't agree with every word of my ideology, then you're my enemy" or "expressing any doubts about immigration or immigration policy makes you a racist".

Suppressing people's right to speak causes more problems than it solves IMO and drives people to extremism. If someone says something bigoted, you have the right to call them out or ban them, if it occurs in a sporting context like the GAA. I was at an League of Ireland match once where an African striker was the subject of some racist abuse and the perpetrator was rightly removed.

And if someone engages in incitement to hatred or violence then there are laws against that which should be enforced.

Ireland thankfully is one of very few Western countries without a strong ethno-nationalist movement like the Front National/National Rally in France, Alternativ für Deutschland or Lega Nord/Fratelli d'Italia in Italy. But I see that changing if everyone who has reservations over the tactics/ideology of BLM and the NGOs aligned with them continues to be censored or shouted down."
Attitude? So you don't think people should keep their racism to themselves??

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8130 - 17/06/2021 14:25:09    2351641

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I'm happy for people who shout slurs to be silenced but where I have trouble is when many of those same people doing the silencing don't seem to have a problem when a lady can speak at Yale University about how she fantasises about killing white people, or when the NYT 's head of online content advocates a white holocaust.
Kind of touching on what you mentioned above it's that double standard that is making far right ideology more attractive to alot of young white males."
Yes, the double standard thing is what really gets up people's noses IMO.

I get that there is racism everywhere and that ethnic minorities in Ireland probably have to put up with some things that I wouldn't even be aware of, or think about. I believe people from minority backgrounds when they say these things.

That said, I think equality has to be basis of a harmonious society. If you have one set of standards or rules for one group and a different set for others, that breeds massive resentment very quickly.

Ultimately, the only way of converting those whose opinions we might abhor is to listen to what they have to say and to counter it. There are some people who can be reached and then are others who are too far gone.

The story linked below is a good example of a black musician in the US who has successfully turned several hundred KKK members, a group who are far more hateful than anything in Ireland.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/mar/18/daryl-davis-black-musician-who-converts-ku-klux-klan-members

I'm sure there are some people who buy into the whole intersectionality thing who would brand him an Uncle Tom for even trying. But then I've actually seen such people compare Ireland to apartheid South Africa, Israel and the American Deep South on these issues, in all sincerity. Deluded isn't the word.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1887 - 17/06/2021 14:27:39    2351643

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Replying To realdub:  "Attitude? So you don't think people should keep their racism to themselves??"
But define racism,for example a few years back in the face of an avalanche of anti white hate, a student at an American University plastered posters all over campus with the simple message, "it's OK to be white", he was then accused of being a white supremacist.
If a white musician does a cover of a soul classic, he is guilty of cultural appropriation. Again more racism,apparently.
All of mankind's worst attributes are now being bunched together and singularly referred to as "whiteness".
This is scary stuff man.
And I stress again, these are the same ideologues who don't have any issue with a lady calling for a white genocide.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 612 - 17/06/2021 15:19:48    2351664

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Replying To realdub:  "Attitude? So you don't think people should keep their racism to themselves??"
That's all you took from my post? Wow.

Of course I'd rather that people didn't say racist or bigoted things. Unfortunately, if there's anything we've learned over the last several hundred years, it's that people with these feelings are unlikely to keep them to themselves (likewise sexists, homophobes, anti-semites, etc. etc.)

At this point, the choice becomes whether to try to bring the person round to your point-of-view or to write them off completely.

As I said, there are some people out there with unpalatable views who are capable of being persuaded. And then there are inveterate bigots who will never be persuaded or who have gone too far down the Internet rabbit hole.

IMO at times the bar is being set very low these days as to what constitutes racism. Apparently mathematics is increasingly being considered racist these days in the US (where a lot of critical race theory discourse comes from).

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/04/racist-math-education/524199/

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1887 - 17/06/2021 15:31:43    2351666

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Replying To Galway9801:  "But define racism,for example a few years back in the face of an avalanche of anti white hate, a student at an American University plastered posters all over campus with the simple message, "it's OK to be white", he was then accused of being a white supremacist.
If a white musician does a cover of a soul classic, he is guilty of cultural appropriation. Again more racism,apparently.
All of mankind's worst attributes are now being bunched together and singularly referred to as "whiteness".
This is scary stuff man.
And I stress again, these are the same ideologues who don't have any issue with a lady calling for a white genocide."
It's very simple, if you don't like someone because of their skin colour that's your problem not theirs. Don't make it their problem, keep your nasty thoughts to yourself.
I have no time for the 'knee' as I can assure you the vast majority of protagonists have never lost a night's sleep over their concern for what happened in America.

And as for BLM, no time for them either as they are mostly bandwagoners and the whole thing is very divisive.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8130 - 17/06/2021 15:39:07    2351668

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Replying To SurelyToGod:  "I think bending the knee is only a positive gesture. There's plenty on this thread claiming that it's following trends and the GAA should take other routes to fight racism instead of hitching onto the BLM movement.

That is a fair point, but unless these posters are actively working in their clubs to promote anti-racism then I'm afraid these words are just as hollow.

There should be some form of an inclusion officer in every club in the country, and an anti-racism policy should be implemented and forefront. Every adult involved with the club in a coaching or playing level should be well aware of the policies. This is important ESPECIALLY in areas where the demographics of the club are 99% white Irish.

If bending the knee gets us to a point where this happens then I'm all for it."
John Barnes ex Celtic, ex England soccer player who was born in Jamaica said on Tuesday that taking the knee is getting beyond a joke. Radio Ulster Tuesday at 1-15 pm in case people think I'm making it up.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 640 - 17/06/2021 15:56:33    2351671

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Replying To realdub:  "It's very simple, if you don't like someone because of their skin colour that's your problem not theirs. Don't make it their problem, keep your nasty thoughts to yourself.
I have no time for the 'knee' as I can assure you the vast majority of protagonists have never lost a night's sleep over their concern for what happened in America.

And as for BLM, no time for them either as they are mostly bandwagoners and the whole thing is very divisive."
Yeah I agree with all of that.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 612 - 17/06/2021 17:13:04    2351691

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Replying To Saynothing:  "John Barnes ex Celtic, ex England soccer player who was born in Jamaica said on Tuesday that taking the knee is getting beyond a joke. Radio Ulster Tuesday at 1-15 pm in case people think I'm making it up."
John Barnes is an interesting guy, a lot his forefathers back in Jamaica were very involved in getting civil rights for the majority population there.
Trevor Phillips, a black guy who, years ago was part of the group who came up with anti racism campaigns under Tony Blair's British government has been publicly saying for many years that looking back he realises his campaigns and the politically correct way of telling people what they should think doesn't work and actually telling people how they are allowed to think turns them against what your trying to say to them.
A turning point for him was when a few cases became public knowledge of police in Britain not investigating serious crimes when they first became aware of them as they were afraid of being labelled racist and then the issues involved became worse because of police inaction.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 916 - 18/06/2021 13:14:03    2351841

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "John Barnes is an interesting guy, a lot his forefathers back in Jamaica were very involved in getting civil rights for the majority population there.
Trevor Phillips, a black guy who, years ago was part of the group who came up with anti racism campaigns under Tony Blair's British government has been publicly saying for many years that looking back he realises his campaigns and the politically correct way of telling people what they should think doesn't work and actually telling people how they are allowed to think turns them against what your trying to say to them.
A turning point for him was when a few cases became public knowledge of police in Britain not investigating serious crimes when they first became aware of them as they were afraid of being labelled racist and then the issues involved became worse because of police inaction."
He's also listentoable, talks fairly and straight.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 640 - 18/06/2021 23:20:38    2351938

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Taking the knee will lose its impact soon.

When Kaepernick knelt, he was the only fella doing it and he did it during the National Anthem. He put his job on the line and he was criticised by his employers and Trump (though that's probably an endorsement).

Now, we've got everyone doing it. You can't tell whether they believe in it or whether it's just peer pressure.

Move on. Make some other gesture.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 468 - 19/06/2021 11:13:19    2351972

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