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Ulster Championship 2021

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Replying To JP91:  "I fail to see how what minute a penalty is scored matters. Over the course of the game Armagh were the better team and deserved to win. Yes we failed to beat Tyrone after picking up 5 defensive injuries in the first half, the same Tyrone team Monaghan failed to beat. The we managed to get a result against Donegal with a makeshift defense before comfortably beating Roscommon.

Not saying we are a threat to Dublin or Kerry but we could beat any other county in Ireland on our day.

Monaghan remind me of Armagh in 2006, on the way down and hoping for a last hurrah."
You're being very generous to Monaghan there. .

This is the tail end of their greatest ever team, but its not a patch on that Armagh team of the 00s.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4552 - 20/06/2021 08:24:36    2352102

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "What's the odds on a Cavan-Monaghan final Gad?
That would be an odious bit of craic altogether, there would be folk wouldn't sleep for a week before it. Or after it.
It hasn't happened since 1952, a good year for the Breffni."
Yes that would be a great occasion. As likely as Tyrone getting to an Ulster final tbh. Can't see it unless we're allowed to play 18 players, 9 of them backs. Following Tyrone is now like the experience of Scottish friends who follow the Scotland Soccer team - the team does enough to give you hope, before falling in a heap again. It's the hope that wrecks your head

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1066 - 20/06/2021 11:49:48    2352127

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Cavan's win last season may have been a surprise but what does it say about Donegal.....? Either they took the game for granted which smacks of bad management and players who think they are better than the actually are or Donegal are just not as good as they think.... If Donegal think they are going to challenge the Dubs with Eamon Magee still playing in the full back line they are totally deluded... He got roasted on a relatively tight pitch in the Ulster Final so what would happen him in the likes of Croke Park...? He was a great player but Father Time has caught up with him I fear....!!!"
I also think the lack of crowd meant that the occasion was more like a training match and not the usual test of big match temperament that a final should be. That suited Cavan

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1066 - 20/06/2021 11:51:57    2352129

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "Kerry are in danger of buying into the massive bluff that Tyrone have sold them. Dublin will be delighted."
If only, lol

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1066 - 20/06/2021 11:53:50    2352130

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Replying To Galway9801:  "So the tyrone management deliberately let their players be publicly humiliated by their rivals?
If this was all some elaborate ruse to play yourself down well Id bet that the new management have lost the respect of at least some of the players.

Bluff or not, I can't imagine that the reaction that horror show generated will have anything other than a negative effect on team morale."
A dead rubber match played 250 miles down the road a few weeks before championship. Do you think Tyrone were at full tilt?

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 858 - 20/06/2021 12:17:20    2352135

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Replying To JP91:  "I fail to see how what minute a penalty is scored matters. Over the course of the game Armagh were the better team and deserved to win. Yes we failed to beat Tyrone after picking up 5 defensive injuries in the first half, the same Tyrone team Monaghan failed to beat. The we managed to get a result against Donegal with a makeshift defense before comfortably beating Roscommon.

Not saying we are a threat to Dublin or Kerry but we could beat any other county in Ireland on our day.

Monaghan remind me of Armagh in 2006, on the way down and hoping for a last hurrah."
Armagh will be kicking themselves if they don't make at least the ulster final. They certainly have the forward talent to do it and while I'm not playing the poor mouth and we can on our day be still a match for most sides we don't possess the tight mean physical defence of a few years ago to keep them out if we do end up meeting. Think this ulster campaign will be a few of our lads last hurrah so they'll certainly give it everything but hard to deny the coming force that is armagh could do v well in the championship big summer for them. The last proper armagh side were legendary and should have won more than one all ireland. This Armagh side looking to get back to those days winning ulster's trips to croke Park in August well able.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1587 - 20/06/2021 13:28:38    2352150

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The closer to the championship we get, the more I fancy Derry to make a good run of it in ulster.
Derry play the winners of donegal and down. I would fancy them 100% v down. If they play us, it will be in ballybofey and we have been beaten there in 2018 by Tyrone, so it's not the fortress is used to be. Gallagher is a shrewd opperator and has many good players at his disposal. He knows the donegal team inside out if we get to the stage of playing them.

A lot will hinge on injuries, of which I think Derry have a clean bill of health.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3809 - 22/06/2021 11:31:02    2352569

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "I've heard a few people tipping Armagh but I don't really understand it. They have improved a lot and deserved to retain their Division 1 status. But I'd reserve judgement on them until I see how they'd cope with a Championship Monaghan team, assuming of course that both win their respective quarter finals. In their last big Championship match Donegal swatted them away like flies."
completely agree. You would think they are the new kerry in some quarters. They keep talking about this brilliant forward line which hasn't done anything in the championship. They are a good team. But Monaghan will beat them i feel.

The same could be said for Derry - improved but still no wear near the likes of Donegal, Tyrone or Monaghan. Div 3 was very very weak and it showed. That Offaly team were making mistakes that you wouldn't see u14's make.

As for Ulster, Donegal will win i feel. Strongest team with the best players. Defence shaky against the best forward lines but im sure Bonner will drop men back to protect the full back line. I dont feel Neil McGee should start - brilliant player but father time has caught up with him. I remember in 2003 Chris Lawn was the elder statesman in the Tyrone full back line but was replaced by the late Cormac McAnallen after a disaster in the Ulster Final. Lawn came on in the all ireland final in second half and settled the ship. I think Neil McGee could play that vital role. Down is the perfect warm up game - dont have to play Murphy or a few others who are carrying knocks. Derry at home will be a nice test without been to harmful - get Murphy etc minutes in. Tyrone will be a test no doubt but your scoring half forward line and better forwards will get you over the line. Donegal are further on that Tyrone in terms of development. Probably play Monaghan in the final which again will be tough. Should do enough to get over the line.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1948 - 22/06/2021 12:26:12    2352585

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I would have similar thoughts but as we know Ulster is a minefield, I'm not looking past the Down game, hopefully the injuries will start to clear up.
I still think Tyrone will take a lot of beating, I see Cathal McShane is fit again also, don't think we've seen anything yet from the red hands, I'd pay no heed to the result in Killarney.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1797 - 22/06/2021 14:14:26    2352610

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It's very quiet up here with Championship fast approaching. Maybe it's down to the fact that once again there will be very few people allowed to attend? Normally I'd be trying to plot some quicker way to Newry to avoid traffic etc, but there will be none of that this summer ether, for now at least. It's also very hard to know what kind of team we'll have available for Sunday. The league was so disjointed and players were unavailable for a variety of reasons. We'll be watching on TV for sure but it's just not the same. Maybe the buzz will come later in the week!

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7441 - 22/06/2021 15:52:35    2352643

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I would have similar thoughts but as we know Ulster is a minefield, I'm not looking past the Down game, hopefully the injuries will start to clear up.
I still think Tyrone will take a lot of beating, I see Cathal McShane is fit again also, don't think we've seen anything yet from the red hands, I'd pay no heed to the result in Killarney."
I actually would pay much attention to it either (result in Kerry) - its Tyrone's style of play. Logan/Dooher were chatting about attacking football when they got the job, now Logan in the papers staying they will "attack at the right time" & "we have to be right in defence first & foremost."
I think they have come in and realised that without Colm Cavanagh's organisation & leadership they are weak enough in defence. But they are weak because we cant win ball in midfield - Mattie Donnelly & Frank Burns isn't a midfield partnership that is going to win much ball. Kennedy & McNulty arent great either.
So if we meet Donegal it will be both teams with 14 behind the ball and Donegal's greater strength & deep will see them though. Tyrone know if its a dogfight they have a puncher's chance - lucky break here or there, Donegal get a man lined.

I feel this is Donegal's time, if they dont win an all Ireland in the next few years their chance may be gone. Just a pity they have to beat the best football team in the history of the GAA and an excellent Kerry team. Down, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Kerrry, Dublin would be some run to win it. Extremely difficult but not impossible.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1948 - 22/06/2021 16:20:04    2352652

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "I actually would pay much attention to it either (result in Kerry) - its Tyrone's style of play. Logan/Dooher were chatting about attacking football when they got the job, now Logan in the papers staying they will "attack at the right time" & "we have to be right in defence first & foremost."
I think they have come in and realised that without Colm Cavanagh's organisation & leadership they are weak enough in defence. But they are weak because we cant win ball in midfield - Mattie Donnelly & Frank Burns isn't a midfield partnership that is going to win much ball. Kennedy & McNulty arent great either.
So if we meet Donegal it will be both teams with 14 behind the ball and Donegal's greater strength & deep will see them though. Tyrone know if its a dogfight they have a puncher's chance - lucky break here or there, Donegal get a man lined.

I feel this is Donegal's time, if they dont win an all Ireland in the next few years their chance may be gone. Just a pity they have to beat the best football team in the history of the GAA and an excellent Kerry team. Down, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Kerrry, Dublin would be some run to win it. Extremely difficult but not impossible."
MacNiallais the first man confirmed ruled out this weekend. He might not be the last either.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7441 - 22/06/2021 17:46:01    2352675

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Replying To cavanman47:  "You're being very generous to Monaghan there. .

This is the tail end of their greatest ever team, but its not a patch on that Armagh team of the 00s."
Spoken like a true cavan man. 50 years to another Ulster !

Shelbourne1 (Monaghan) - Posts: 260 - 24/06/2021 00:41:15    2352979

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Replying To JP91:  "I fail to see how what minute a penalty is scored matters. Over the course of the game Armagh were the better team and deserved to win. Yes we failed to beat Tyrone after picking up 5 defensive injuries in the first half, the same Tyrone team Monaghan failed to beat. The we managed to get a result against Donegal with a makeshift defense before comfortably beating Roscommon.

Not saying we are a threat to Dublin or Kerry but we could beat any other county in Ireland on our day.

Monaghan remind me of Armagh in 2006, on the way down and hoping for a last hurrah."
Monaghan remind me of Armagh in 2006, on the way down and hoping for a last hurrah.

you hope !

Shelbourne1 (Monaghan) - Posts: 260 - 24/06/2021 00:45:38    2352980

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Replying To Green_Gold:  "Its going to be a really interesting Ulster championship and hard to pick a winner. Tyrone, Donegal and Monaghan will be in the mix and Armagh look good. I wouldn't write Cavan off either, they just seem to be a different animal in the championship.

Unfortunately I can't see the Ulster winners making a serious challenge for the All Ireland. Donegal and Tyrone can put up big scores but are extremely porous at the back. Surely whoever dethroned the Dubs will have to be rock solid at the back"
Tyrone & Donegal are seriously over rated....its Armagh or Monaghan for Ulster with Derry dark horses !

Shelbourne1 (Monaghan) - Posts: 260 - 24/06/2021 00:52:08    2352981

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Replying To Shelbourne1:  "Tyrone & Donegal are seriously over rated....its Armagh or Monaghan for Ulster with Derry dark horses !"
Coming from a Monaghan man. Donegal came back from being 9 down against Monaghan after a gruelling and heavy week of training. They were also without Murphy. I'm not sure if that's a sign of how bad Monaghan are or a sign of a good team that can manage some adversity when it comes head on. Of course, though Armagh and Monaghan have a real shout as they are on the easy side of the draw and it would be crazy if atleast one of them never made an Ulster final. I would agree with you though about Derry. Although they played in a weak division 3, they still won it convincingly and seem to have a good crop of players with their tails up.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 24/06/2021 09:40:02    2353004

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Coming from a Monaghan man. Donegal came back from being 9 down against Monaghan after a gruelling and heavy week of training. They were also without Murphy. I'm not sure if that's a sign of how bad Monaghan are or a sign of a good team that can manage some adversity when it comes head on. Of course, though Armagh and Monaghan have a real shout as they are on the easy side of the draw and it would be crazy if atleast one of them never made an Ulster final. I would agree with you though about Derry. Although they played in a weak division 3, they still won it convincingly and seem to have a good crop of players with their tails up."
Donegal and Tyrone are indeed overrated, but are still well ahead of Monaghan.
Monaghan are not the benchmark for these teams

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 858 - 24/06/2021 10:54:55    2353024

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "Donegal and Tyrone are indeed overrated, but are still well ahead of Monaghan.
Monaghan are not the benchmark for these teams"
Judging by alot of posts on HS, Donegal don't seem to be rated very highly at all. The worst you can rate Donegal is 4th but that seems to be exactly where everyone is putting them. In some cases 5th behind Tyrone, for some reason when Tyrone haven't beat Donegal in 3 years. Donegal haven't hit the heights they have supposed to hit the past number of years. In saying that, they have scoring players all over the pitch that on their day (a very big day) can definitely beat the Dubs. Personally, I believe there is more talent in this Donegal team than there was in the one in 2014. People will call me mad for saying that but I've never seen a Donegal team like this one that can score from virtually anywhere. Defence appears to be the weak link but that's more fixable than not being able to score. We will see. I still think there are 5 teams in Ulster than can win. Well 6 if you think Cavan can repeat what they did last year.

MurphBalls (Donegal) - Posts: 109 - 24/06/2021 11:10:19    2353033

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Replying To MurphBalls:  "Judging by alot of posts on HS, Donegal don't seem to be rated very highly at all. The worst you can rate Donegal is 4th but that seems to be exactly where everyone is putting them. In some cases 5th behind Tyrone, for some reason when Tyrone haven't beat Donegal in 3 years. Donegal haven't hit the heights they have supposed to hit the past number of years. In saying that, they have scoring players all over the pitch that on their day (a very big day) can definitely beat the Dubs. Personally, I believe there is more talent in this Donegal team than there was in the one in 2014. People will call me mad for saying that but I've never seen a Donegal team like this one that can score from virtually anywhere. Defence appears to be the weak link but that's more fixable than not being able to score. We will see. I still think there are 5 teams in Ulster than can win. Well 6 if you think Cavan can repeat what they did last year."
I have huge admiration for this Donegal team, for their individual talents and how they play. They hit a peak in the Ulster final in 2019 when they dismantled Cavan playing within themselves, but then blew up against Mayo. Admittedly injuries played a big part there. Last year they were unbackable in the UF but never showed up to match Cavan's intent. Dublin relaxed after that.
So yeah, I would have rated them very highly indeed but that rating in the overall picture has been tempered by a number of unexpected losses. Thats probably not too far off where most Donegal supporters are at themselves.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 858 - 24/06/2021 11:50:53    2353043

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Assuming Donegal beat Down, there could be an ambush on the cards on the 11th of July when Derry meet Donegal in the quarter final.

If Clifford is the best player in the country then Shane McGuigan is surely a close second in my opinion.

He would get into any team in the country.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 24/06/2021 13:28:39    2353066

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