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Cork GAA: The Sleeping Giant

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "
Replying To Oldtourman:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=StoreysTash:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=CiarraiMick:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  ""This is the longest period in my lifetime that Cork hurlers have not won an all ireland"

If Cork don't win the hurling All-Ireland this year, it'll be 16 years since their last win. The longest time Cork have gone without an AI win prior to this was also 16 years, 1903 to 1919.

Of the other two (Kilkenny and Tipperary) of 'the big three'. It's well known, unless you've never met someone from Tipperary, that Tipp have won an AI in every decade since it's inception. But, they went 18 years without an AI win between 1971 and 1989.

Kilkenny didn't win their first AI until 1904, which means they waited 17 years since the start in 1887. But since then the longest they have gone between AI wins is 10 years."
Good man Cockney thanks. My own view though is that while Cork are not winning they are still there or thereabouts just like Dublin in their 16 year hiatus..It's not like Offaly that have gone off the radar at mó. I mean I would nt be shocked to see Cork win the all ireland this year although I know there are a few teams ahead of them."
I posted on here a year or so ago about missing Cork performing on the mainstage. From a Kilkenny point of view, there is a long rivalry and history of great, closely fought games against Cork. No two teams have met in more All-Ireland finals. Cork and Kilkenny have clashed on hurling's biggest stage on 24 occasions.

While it's great to see the likes of Limerick, Galway, Clare etc. playing top class hurling and winning All-Irelands. I miss the great clashes between the black and amber, and the blood and bandages."]You need to get that Stockholm Syndrome sorted out Cockney_Cat. The best thing the game has is different winners and competitors."]Stockholm Syndrome? Of course, the best thing the game has is different winners and competitors, I never said otherwise. But you can't beat that extra bit of frisson in the players and fans when old rivals or neighbours clash, especially when in a final."]Exactly, people, myself included, often celebrate traditionally weaker counties getting good results and winning all Irelands, but as much as hurling needs competition, it also needs the big three.

The tipperary kilkenny rivalry from about 09 to 2016 was the best part of the all Ireland championship in that time imo."]The simple fact is for the first thirteen years of this Century and four times since one of the big three have won McCarthy. A nice long sabbatical from them would do them do the game in general no harm at all. I would far prefer to see Waterford Laois or Dublin break their ducks than hanker after some vague paradise that existed when the big three were total kings."]Who said anything about hankering after a "vague paradise". Yet again you are making things up."]Well Cockney I have heard plenty of this stuff over the years. I'll give you a few snapshots. I was coming out from the '94 CK/LK match, which Lk won narrowly. The week before Tipp had gone out to Clare. The woman in my life, a Wexfordian, had stayed back and listened to what turned to be a tempestuous WX/DUB game on the car radio. By mistake she ran down the battery, while listening. Two lovely young Cork lads helped me to push the car to get it started. Then one of them made what I thought was a telling statement- 'sure with Tipp and Cork gone, there will be nobody at the Munster Final'. Meanwhile in the LK dressingroom it appears that the famous Jap Ryan RIP announced that it was a long time since Kerry were still in the Munster Hurling Championship, while Cork and Tipp were gone'. On Final Day, this sense of arrogance was taken a step further by a then Tipperary Hurling Star, who was a Garda stationed in Thurles. With delightful but oh so telling wit, while directing traffic in Liberty square he invited friends from Clare and limerick to the B Final.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3250 - 14/05/2021 15:56:46    2341712

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=StoreysTash:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=CiarraiMick:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  ""This is the longest period in my lifetime that Cork hurlers have not won an all ireland"

If Cork don't win the hurling All-Ireland this year, it'll be 16 years since their last win. The longest time Cork have gone without an AI win prior to this was also 16 years, 1903 to 1919.

Of the other two (Kilkenny and Tipperary) of 'the big three'. It's well known, unless you've never met someone from Tipperary, that Tipp have won an AI in every decade since it's inception. But, they went 18 years without an AI win between 1971 and 1989.

Kilkenny didn't win their first AI until 1904, which means they waited 17 years since the start in 1887. But since then the longest they have gone between AI wins is 10 years."
Good man Cockney thanks. My own view though is that while Cork are not winning they are still there or thereabouts just like Dublin in their 16 year hiatus..It's not like Offaly that have gone off the radar at mó. I mean I would nt be shocked to see Cork win the all ireland this year although I know there are a few teams ahead of them."
I posted on here a year or so ago about missing Cork performing on the mainstage. From a Kilkenny point of view, there is a long rivalry and history of great, closely fought games against Cork. No two teams have met in more All-Ireland finals. Cork and Kilkenny have clashed on hurling's biggest stage on 24 occasions.

While it's great to see the likes of Limerick, Galway, Clare etc. playing top class hurling and winning All-Irelands. I miss the great clashes between the black and amber, and the blood and bandages."]You need to get that Stockholm Syndrome sorted out Cockney_Cat. The best thing the game has is different winners and competitors."]Stockholm Syndrome? Of course, the best thing the game has is different winners and competitors, I never said otherwise. But you can't beat that extra bit of frisson in the players and fans when old rivals or neighbours clash, especially when in a final."]Exactly, people, myself included, often celebrate traditionally weaker counties getting good results and winning all Irelands, but as much as hurling needs competition, it also needs the big three.

The tipperary kilkenny rivalry from about 09 to 2016 was the best part of the all Ireland championship in that time imo."]The simple fact is for the first thirteen years of this Century and four times since one of the big three have won McCarthy. A nice long sabbatical from them would do them do the game in general no harm at all. I would far prefer to see Waterford Laois or Dublin break their ducks than hanker after some vague paradise that existed when the big three were total kings."]Who said anything about hankering after a "vague paradise". Yet again you are making things up."]Well Cockney I have heard plenty of this stuff over the years. I'll give you a few snapshots. I was coming out from the '94 CK/LK match, which Lk won narrowly. The week before Tipp had gone out to Clare. The woman in my life, a Wexfordian, had stayed back and listened to what turned to be a tempestuous WX/DUB game on the car radio. By mistake she ran down the battery, while listening. Two lovely young Cork lads helped me to push the car to get it started. Then one of them made what I thought was a telling statement- 'sure with Tipp and Cork gone, there will be nobody at the Munster Final'. Meanwhile in the LK dressingroom it appears that the famous Jap Ryan RIP announced that it was a long time since Kerry were still in the Munster Hurling Championship, while Cork and Tipp were gone'. On Final Day, this sense of arrogance was taken a step further by a then Tipperary Hurling Star, who was a Garda stationed in Thurles. With delightful but oh so telling wit, while directing traffic in Liberty square he invited friends from Clare and limerick to the B Final."]I was discussing hurling with a friend from Limerick recently! He reminded me that they were black guarded out of the 1966 Munster semi final in Killarney which Cork won by 2 points and subsequently won the all Ireland. Limerick supporters have long memories. 1966 is awhile back, and they say elephants never forget! I remember that game in Killarney... I was present.. was a very tense game in which Tony Connolly subdued Eamon Cregan, and Cork won 2-6 to 1-7. There was an optimistic air in Cork that year after Tipp were beaten by Limerick in first round. I am seeing a similar optimism with Cork this year!!

Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 657 - 16/05/2021 21:11:20    2342550

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=StoreysTash:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=CiarraiMick:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  ""This is the longest period in my lifetime that Cork hurlers have not won an all ireland"

If Cork don't win the hurling All-Ireland this year, it'll be 16 years since their last win. The longest time Cork have gone without an AI win prior to this was also 16 years, 1903 to 1919.

Of the other two (Kilkenny and Tipperary) of 'the big three'. It's well known, unless you've never met someone from Tipperary, that Tipp have won an AI in every decade since it's inception. But, they went 18 years without an AI win between 1971 and 1989.

Kilkenny didn't win their first AI until 1904, which means they waited 17 years since the start in 1887. But since then the longest they have gone between AI wins is 10 years."
Good man Cockney thanks. My own view though is that while Cork are not winning they are still there or thereabouts just like Dublin in their 16 year hiatus..It's not like Offaly that have gone off the radar at mó. I mean I would nt be shocked to see Cork win the all ireland this year although I know there are a few teams ahead of them."
I posted on here a year or so ago about missing Cork performing on the mainstage. From a Kilkenny point of view, there is a long rivalry and history of great, closely fought games against Cork. No two teams have met in more All-Ireland finals. Cork and Kilkenny have clashed on hurling's biggest stage on 24 occasions.

While it's great to see the likes of Limerick, Galway, Clare etc. playing top class hurling and winning All-Irelands. I miss the great clashes between the black and amber, and the blood and bandages."]You need to get that Stockholm Syndrome sorted out Cockney_Cat. The best thing the game has is different winners and competitors."]Stockholm Syndrome? Of course, the best thing the game has is different winners and competitors, I never said otherwise. But you can't beat that extra bit of frisson in the players and fans when old rivals or neighbours clash, especially when in a final."]Exactly, people, myself included, often celebrate traditionally weaker counties getting good results and winning all Irelands, but as much as hurling needs competition, it also needs the big three.

The tipperary kilkenny rivalry from about 09 to 2016 was the best part of the all Ireland championship in that time imo."]The simple fact is for the first thirteen years of this Century and four times since one of the big three have won McCarthy. A nice long sabbatical from them would do them do the game in general no harm at all. I would far prefer to see Waterford Laois or Dublin break their ducks than hanker after some vague paradise that existed when the big three were total kings."]Who said anything about hankering after a "vague paradise". Yet again you are making things up."]Well Cockney I have heard plenty of this stuff over the years. I'll give you a few snapshots. I was coming out from the '94 CK/LK match, which Lk won narrowly. The week before Tipp had gone out to Clare. The woman in my life, a Wexfordian, had stayed back and listened to what turned to be a tempestuous WX/DUB game on the car radio. By mistake she ran down the battery, while listening. Two lovely young Cork lads helped me to push the car to get it started. Then one of them made what I thought was a telling statement- 'sure with Tipp and Cork gone, there will be nobody at the Munster Final'. Meanwhile in the LK dressingroom it appears that the famous Jap Ryan RIP announced that it was a long time since Kerry were still in the Munster Hurling Championship, while Cork and Tipp were gone'. On Final Day, this sense of arrogance was taken a step further by a then Tipperary Hurling Star, who was a Garda stationed in Thurles. With delightful but oh so telling wit, while directing traffic in Liberty square he invited friends from Clare and limerick to the B Final."]They are all interesting stories. But we're talking about comments on here, not who said what over 25 year's ago.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1459 - 17/05/2021 09:02:43    2342647

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Going back to the subject posted by the OP, I think Cork have already a plan in place, where they finally put concerted effort into structured coaching at underage, which has borne fruit. However this only serves to put Cork on par with the vast majority of counties who did this at least a decade before, if not more. Maybe it was a level of arrogance and apathy of the county board that allowed this to happen.
I think the new plans are admirable and so necessary in the modern game, which is sad in itself but that's another subject. The Kerry, Mayo, Galway, Limerick and Tipp, to name a few, fundraising machine has been extremely successful and made those counties competitive against the Dublin's and Kilkenny's. Cork needed to modernise and I think they are finally doing so.
I will say again though, that it is sad that this is necessary, to raise vast monies to compete, preventing "smaller counties" from ever competing. However I do not blame the larger counties, as it is not just needed to give yourself a chance of winning, but also to compete with other sports such as Rugby and Soccer for our young talent. It is no surprise that we see many excellent young Cork sportsmen leave GAA for rugby and soccer etc, compared to other counties. In those other counties, the set up is far more professionally run and players do not easily leave that environment, even for professional sport. That is the environment Cork need to foster.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 272 - 17/05/2021 09:33:56    2342661

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As an outsider looking in it seems to me the Cork footballers have generally down the years underperformed when you look at the resources apparently available to them which I always found hard to understand.
County Cork has always had a very big population. While Cork is traditionally associated with hurling because of its success the numbers playing football would, I would imagine be huge.
I remember when in college in the 1990's 2 lads from the the county saying to me that they were from traditional hurling areas but played both football and hurling but said that the reverse didn't happen much in West Cork where many only played football.
I also remember talking to a Meath man at a match a few years ago and he said in the early 1990's he played club football in Cork and was amazed at the high standard.
Looking at population and how the GAA was traditionally strong in Cork why do Cork people think Cork not won more football all Ireland's?

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 968 - 17/05/2021 19:13:44    2342899

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "As an outsider looking in it seems to me the Cork footballers have generally down the years underperformed when you look at the resources apparently available to them which I always found hard to understand.
County Cork has always had a very big population. While Cork is traditionally associated with hurling because of its success the numbers playing football would, I would imagine be huge.
I remember when in college in the 1990's 2 lads from the the county saying to me that they were from traditional hurling areas but played both football and hurling but said that the reverse didn't happen much in West Cork where many only played football.
I also remember talking to a Meath man at a match a few years ago and he said in the early 1990's he played club football in Cork and was amazed at the high standard.
Looking at population and how the GAA was traditionally strong in Cork why do Cork people think Cork not won more football all Ireland's?"
I'm not from Cork, but I'd say the main reason Cork haven't won more football All-Irelands is Kerry.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1459 - 19/05/2021 11:19:35    2343301

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "I'm not from Cork, but I'd say the main reason Cork haven't won more football All-Irelands is Kerry."
Especially in pre back door days

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3117 - 19/05/2021 14:15:24    2343369

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Replying To Viking66:  "Especially in pre back door days"
Of the 119 times they have met in the Championship, Cork have won 34 and drawn 12 times.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1459 - 19/05/2021 17:26:15    2343439

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "As an outsider looking in it seems to me the Cork footballers have generally down the years underperformed when you look at the resources apparently available to them which I always found hard to understand.
County Cork has always had a very big population. While Cork is traditionally associated with hurling because of its success the numbers playing football would, I would imagine be huge.
I remember when in college in the 1990's 2 lads from the the county saying to me that they were from traditional hurling areas but played both football and hurling but said that the reverse didn't happen much in West Cork where many only played football.
I also remember talking to a Meath man at a match a few years ago and he said in the early 1990's he played club football in Cork and was amazed at the high standard.
Looking at population and how the GAA was traditionally strong in Cork why do Cork people think Cork not won more football all Ireland's?"
Football is played in hurling strongholds, but hurling will always hold sway. An example of this is the Cahalane brothers. You could not get a family more steeped in west cork football tradition. However both brothers have opted for the hurling panel. If a good footballer was a good hurler also, they would nearly always choose hurling. West cork is an exception. However, hurling has made inroads in football areas as well with the kanturk contingent an example. I think most here would agree that Aidan Walsh was one of the brightest football stars in 2010. However, he wanted to hurl for Cork. He was a massive loss for Cork football and still is.
The point made about Kerry is also very relevant. Cork have had many excellent teams that never made it out of Munster. In the noughties, Cork could never beat Kerry in Croke park. However, seemed to beat everybody else, including the northern teams that Kerry struggled against. Without a back door, they would probably have had a couple more all Ireland's in the noughties.
Cork's record in finals is not great, so that could be deemed underachievement, however overall, Corks record stands up to most football counties except Kerry and Dublin.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 272 - 20/05/2021 14:54:41    2343671

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "I'm not from Cork, but I'd say the main reason Cork haven't won more football All-Irelands is Kerry."
The kind of point I was making is I would guess, based on the huge population of county Cork, that Cork would always have a huge number of Gaelic footballers to pick from. I would guess traditionally Cork would have a bigger pool of Gaelic footballers than Kerry. I would actually say that before the recent growth of the GAA in Dublin that they would have had, by a good bit, a bigger pool of players to pick from than Dublin (years ago soccer was well the most popular sport in Dublin, the GAA seem to have grown a lot ). Based on that why have they not won a huge number of All Ireland's?

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 968 - 20/05/2021 16:48:37    2343712

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "Football is played in hurling strongholds, but hurling will always hold sway. An example of this is the Cahalane brothers. You could not get a family more steeped in west cork football tradition. However both brothers have opted for the hurling panel. If a good footballer was a good hurler also, they would nearly always choose hurling. West cork is an exception. However, hurling has made inroads in football areas as well with the kanturk contingent an example. I think most here would agree that Aidan Walsh was one of the brightest football stars in 2010. However, he wanted to hurl for Cork. He was a massive loss for Cork football and still is.
The point made about Kerry is also very relevant. Cork have had many excellent teams that never made it out of Munster. In the noughties, Cork could never beat Kerry in Croke park. However, seemed to beat everybody else, including the northern teams that Kerry struggled against. Without a back door, they would probably have had a couple more all Ireland's in the noughties.
Cork's record in finals is not great, so that could be deemed underachievement, however overall, Corks record stands up to most football counties except Kerry and Dublin."
When Cork were going well in football a few years when they were won an All Ireland and were contenders for a few years around that time I thought I remember players opting for football over hurling. Players opting for hurling over football is probably a lot to do with usually Cork have had a better chance of winning All Ireland's in hurling. Anyway, when your talking about a country with 500k losing a few players to hurling wouldn't necessarily have a huge impact.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 968 - 20/05/2021 18:14:57    2343739

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "The kind of point I was making is I would guess, based on the huge population of county Cork, that Cork would always have a huge number of Gaelic footballers to pick from. I would guess traditionally Cork would have a bigger pool of Gaelic footballers than Kerry. I would actually say that before the recent growth of the GAA in Dublin that they would have had, by a good bit, a bigger pool of players to pick from than Dublin (years ago soccer was well the most popular sport in Dublin, the GAA seem to have grown a lot ). Based on that why have they not won a huge number of All Ireland's?"
A woeful county board and the complete dominance of Kerry with their "natural born ballers".

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 756 - 20/05/2021 18:27:42    2343744

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "When Cork were going well in football a few years when they were won an All Ireland and were contenders for a few years around that time I thought I remember players opting for football over hurling. Players opting for hurling over football is probably a lot to do with usually Cork have had a better chance of winning All Ireland's in hurling. Anyway, when your talking about a country with 500k losing a few players to hurling wouldn't necessarily have a huge impact."
You mention Dublin and their historic love of Soccer. Well Cork city would be very similar in terms of soccer and rugby. No, there were not any real first choice hurlers choosing football over hurling, even when Cork were successful with the big ball. The only player that really comes close to that is Eoin Cadogan.
The point is, the playing population in cork may play football but the vast majority would count hurling as their main sport. Just like Tipp, Kilkenny and many others. Some of Tipp and Kilkennys best footballers are county hurlers.
The football base in Cork is 2/3 strong city clubs and a very rural, relatively small population of West Cork. There are some other good senior clubs dotted around but if you compare that to Hurling, you would have senior clubs all over north, East and the city.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 272 - 21/05/2021 22:02:33    2344057

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "Football is played in hurling strongholds, but hurling will always hold sway. An example of this is the Cahalane brothers. You could not get a family more steeped in west cork football tradition. However both brothers have opted for the hurling panel. If a good footballer was a good hurler also, they would nearly always choose hurling. West cork is an exception. However, hurling has made inroads in football areas as well with the kanturk contingent an example. I think most here would agree that Aidan Walsh was one of the brightest football stars in 2010. However, he wanted to hurl for Cork. He was a massive loss for Cork football and still is.
The point made about Kerry is also very relevant. Cork have had many excellent teams that never made it out of Munster. In the noughties, Cork could never beat Kerry in Croke park. However, seemed to beat everybody else, including the northern teams that Kerry struggled against. Without a back door, they would probably have had a couple more all Ireland's in the noughties.
Cork's record in finals is not great, so that could be deemed underachievement, however overall, Corks record stands up to most football counties except Kerry and Dublin."
Well said Badger and as I have posted before no teams have met more in the championship since the back door came in than Cork and Kerry. Not only did they meet in munster but met in 2 AI finals 5 semi finals. They drew in munster in 02 06 09 10 15 and 19 and drew in AI semi 2008.The great Kerry team of old had tough battles with Cork. Also a point I've made about Kerry minor teams winning 5 in a row. People said they won handy but against Cork they had some tough games and Cork did nt get a back door because Kerry beat them in semi finals. Ironically when Kerry were going for 6 in a row they beat Cork twice in munster but Cork had backdoor and won the all ireland. Also Cork have a good record at u20/21.Bdtween 05 to11 Kerry were the only county to beat Cork in the chamopionship unti Mayo in 11 and Cork beat Tyrone Meath Dublin Down etc on route. Cork have been unlucky.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2705 - 21/05/2021 23:05:18    2344073

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Well said Badger and as I have posted before no teams have met more in the championship since the back door came in than Cork and Kerry. Not only did they meet in munster but met in 2 AI finals 5 semi finals. They drew in munster in 02 06 09 10 15 and 19 and drew in AI semi 2008.The great Kerry team of old had tough battles with Cork. Also a point I've made about Kerry minor teams winning 5 in a row. People said they won handy but against Cork they had some tough games and Cork did nt get a back door because Kerry beat them in semi finals. Ironically when Kerry were going for 6 in a row they beat Cork twice in munster but Cork had backdoor and won the all ireland. Also Cork have a good record at u20/21.Bdtween 05 to11 Kerry were the only county to beat Cork in the chamopionship unti Mayo in 11 and Cork beat Tyrone Meath Dublin Down etc on route. Cork have been unlucky."
For all the talk about munster being a hurling province, Cork were on the whole the 3rd best team in the country during the 2000s, and the 2nd best in some of those years.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 907 - 22/05/2021 00:13:14    2344088

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