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Westmeath Hurling

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Replying To Viking66:  "Agree Fairplayalways I think Cork are always in with a chance. But I didnt see anything in their game against Waterford that made me think they are in with a better chance than last year. The intensity in the game was missing altogether I dont think if they meet Waterford or anyone else in the Championship they will get as much space to get the 5 goals. How a pundit can tip them for Liam based on 1 game after 3 weeks training is beyond me! Or anyone else to win it for that matter!"
you obvously dont like whoever the other poster was:)..only joking..I hear what your saying...equally I suppose we cant write them off after one game either I suppose could be argued...I suppose they are comming from really no where last year is what the low expectations are from your point of view..They were missing a killer instinct in recent years..if they have fixed that..they will give anyone on anyday a run for their money..Limerick icluded....

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 866 - 11/05/2021 12:05:42    2341084

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "you obvously dont like whoever the other poster was:)..only joking..I hear what your saying...equally I suppose we cant write them off after one game either I suppose could be argued...I suppose they are comming from really no where last year is what the low expectations are from your point of view..They were missing a killer instinct in recent years..if they have fixed that..they will give anyone on anyday a run for their money..Limerick icluded...."
Wasnt a poster it was Donal og Cusack. And hes a witty and interesting man who is passionate about hurling. And obviously a proud Cork man! It's just the main problem I've seen with Cork senior teams over the last decade has been inconsistent at best intensity. They have always had great hurlers but sometimes they just look a little off the pace and disinterested in the harrying, blocking, tackling side of the game especially up front. For example in 2019 they looked terrible against Tipp in the round Robin opener. Got hammered in the press and on the streets of Cork. They then upped the intensity to beat Limerick well in their next game but never played at that level the rest of the year. Cusack himself made the point a couple of years ago that he thought part of the problem was due to how the Cork senior club championship was refereed in that refs didnt let players away with as much in the tackle as intercounty refs. Now maybe this will be their year for sure but I dont see how anyone can say that after that Waterford game. Games played like that are the 1s Cork have always won handily. Their problem over the last 15 years is inter county championship games arent played like that and even more so as time goes by. Bill Cooper is an important player for them these days......

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3204 - 11/05/2021 13:07:17    2341101

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Replying To Viking66:  "Wasnt a poster it was Donal og Cusack. And hes a witty and interesting man who is passionate about hurling. And obviously a proud Cork man! It's just the main problem I've seen with Cork senior teams over the last decade has been inconsistent at best intensity. They have always had great hurlers but sometimes they just look a little off the pace and disinterested in the harrying, blocking, tackling side of the game especially up front. For example in 2019 they looked terrible against Tipp in the round Robin opener. Got hammered in the press and on the streets of Cork. They then upped the intensity to beat Limerick well in their next game but never played at that level the rest of the year. Cusack himself made the point a couple of years ago that he thought part of the problem was due to how the Cork senior club championship was refereed in that refs didnt let players away with as much in the tackle as intercounty refs. Now maybe this will be their year for sure but I dont see how anyone can say that after that Waterford game. Games played like that are the 1s Cork have always won handily. Their problem over the last 15 years is inter county championship games arent played like that and even more so as time goes by. Bill Cooper is an important player for them these days......"
that is true, and Bill Cooper is a playe i and many dont really think of when we think of "go to men" for Cork..we all think Patrick Horgan and the likes...as you say..wonderful after a a public backlash and then its return to "I dont think we are good enough to win" type of menality when a game is in the melting pot...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 866 - 11/05/2021 14:31:17    2341116

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "that is true, and Bill Cooper is a playe i and many dont really think of when we think of "go to men" for Cork..we all think Patrick Horgan and the likes...as you say..wonderful after a a public backlash and then its return to "I dont think we are good enough to win" type of menality when a game is in the melting pot..."
Not so sure it's a "I dont think we are good enough to win" mentality. It seems more like a "we are Cork we are entitled to win without trying" mentality especially among some of the more gifted forwards.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3204 - 11/05/2021 15:47:33    2341134

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Not patronizing Westmeath but have the greatest respect for them as hurlers. Played with them at college and they were as good as anyone else. Of course I want Waterford to beat them but would prefer that it is not by running up a huge score. Waterford are caught between a rock and a hard spot knowing if they don't will well they will be judged on that. I think the GAA should be taking an debt analysis of Westmeath and others to see where they are coming up short and invest resources. This is in the best interest of the sport. Everyone can not win the All-Ireland but get them competitive. This up and down for 100 years has changed nothing. I cringe every time I see good hurling lads get embarrest by a drubbing. Many of you know what that is like walking off the field after giving it your best.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1642 - 11/05/2021 17:11:07    2341143

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Replying To Canuck:  "Not patronizing Westmeath but have the greatest respect for them as hurlers. Played with them at college and they were as good as anyone else. Of course I want Waterford to beat them but would prefer that it is not by running up a huge score. Waterford are caught between a rock and a hard spot knowing if they don't will well they will be judged on that. I think the GAA should be taking an debt analysis of Westmeath and others to see where they are coming up short and invest resources. This is in the best interest of the sport. Everyone can not win the All-Ireland but get them competitive. This up and down for 100 years has changed nothing. I cringe every time I see good hurling lads get embarrest by a drubbing. Many of you know what that is like walking off the field after giving it your best."
"I want Waterford to beat them but would prefer that it is not by running up a huge score."

For a side that has just conceded 5-22 in your last game. I'd be more concerned about keeping the score down defensively, than daydreaming about 'running up a huge score'.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1464 - 11/05/2021 19:23:28    2341155

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""I want Waterford to beat them but would prefer that it is not by running up a huge score."

For a side that has just conceded 5-22 in your last game. I'd be more concerned about keeping the score down defensively, than daydreaming about 'running up a huge score'."
Why the cutting attitude. I am not day dreaming or night dreaming about anything and well aware of what we conceded against Cork. Maybe Westmeath will beat Waterford and if not I hope they do themselves justice with their performance. Us lesser lights are more inclined to emphasite with others because we know what it is like to struggle.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1642 - 11/05/2021 19:55:24    2341162

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I used to worry about teams conceding big scores...but with the way the game is gone now unless you put 30 points on the board in some format, you wont win...we longed for high scoring games back years ago with a heavier hurls and leather sliothars (I wont comment on players:)) but now its farcical, turn your back for 2/3 minutes and the score has raced up 4 or 5 points in some games..its all almost as little contact as possible, short puck out work the ball to someone loose and he bings this ping ball over the bar..not all of all games I know but alot fo the game thats the process...its it a skill, I suppose it is, but it gets boring too..If you score 5-22 (normally its more 2-26 or something) playing a team of your equal, they will score somthing like 1-28 or something...2-14 to 2-12 was a better game of hurling back in the day..more graft went into winning such games..its too constructed now with lads dropping back as sweepers and what have you..

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 866 - 12/05/2021 19:49:17    2341336

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "I used to worry about teams conceding big scores...but with the way the game is gone now unless you put 30 points on the board in some format, you wont win...we longed for high scoring games back years ago with a heavier hurls and leather sliothars (I wont comment on players:)) but now its farcical, turn your back for 2/3 minutes and the score has raced up 4 or 5 points in some games..its all almost as little contact as possible, short puck out work the ball to someone loose and he bings this ping ball over the bar..not all of all games I know but alot fo the game thats the process...its it a skill, I suppose it is, but it gets boring too..If you score 5-22 (normally its more 2-26 or something) playing a team of your equal, they will score somthing like 1-28 or something...2-14 to 2-12 was a better game of hurling back in the day..more graft went into winning such games..its too constructed now with lads dropping back as sweepers and what have you.."
Saw some pretty dire games back in the 90s too though Fairplayalways they weren't all great games.....

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3204 - 12/05/2021 20:13:40    2341342

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "I used to worry about teams conceding big scores...but with the way the game is gone now unless you put 30 points on the board in some format, you wont win...we longed for high scoring games back years ago with a heavier hurls and leather sliothars (I wont comment on players:)) but now its farcical, turn your back for 2/3 minutes and the score has raced up 4 or 5 points in some games..its all almost as little contact as possible, short puck out work the ball to someone loose and he bings this ping ball over the bar..not all of all games I know but alot fo the game thats the process...its it a skill, I suppose it is, but it gets boring too..If you score 5-22 (normally its more 2-26 or something) playing a team of your equal, they will score somthing like 1-28 or something...2-14 to 2-12 was a better game of hurling back in the day..more graft went into winning such games..its too constructed now with lads dropping back as sweepers and what have you.."
Yes image Waterford got 28 scores in a loss. One score more than Cork. If you look at many of the long range points in games the play is uncontested. Part of this is the rucks have drawn players in and there is someone loose. Also how many points are we now seeing straight from the goal keeper to an unmarked player and over the bar with no play at all. We have the broadcasters calling these a fabulous score. A great score is where a player wins a ball and beats another player or two and then puts it over the bar. The players probable spend more time practicing this like your golf shot and I guess you can't blame them because it gets scores.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1642 - 12/05/2021 20:23:44    2341344

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Replying To Canuck:  "Yes image Waterford got 28 scores in a loss. One score more than Cork. If you look at many of the long range points in games the play is uncontested. Part of this is the rucks have drawn players in and there is someone loose. Also how many points are we now seeing straight from the goal keeper to an unmarked player and over the bar with no play at all. We have the broadcasters calling these a fabulous score. A great score is where a player wins a ball and beats another player or two and then puts it over the bar. The players probable spend more time practicing this like your golf shot and I guess you can't blame them because it gets scores."
100% aggree...I remember being at a NHL league game in Birr where LImerick were visitors in 1985..Limerick won 5-06 to 0-18...Offaly were easily 7 scores better and hurled very well scoring 0-18 which was a big score even then..5 goals conceded though was the undoing...I know there are lots of similar games over the years..that one sticks with me always...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 866 - 12/05/2021 23:39:35    2341378

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "100% aggree...I remember being at a NHL league game in Birr where LImerick were visitors in 1985..Limerick won 5-06 to 0-18...Offaly were easily 7 scores better and hurled very well scoring 0-18 which was a big score even then..5 goals conceded though was the undoing...I know there are lots of similar games over the years..that one sticks with me always..."
I was checking the game I referred to above last night, it was actually 1984 League, and almost a coincidene, Limerick beat Kilkenny the round before the Offaly game by 5-08 (23 points) to 1-18 (21) so 13 scores beat 19...great games and good times in hurling...no stats or dieticians or anything...out the gate and home after the match..

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 866 - 13/05/2021 20:42:40    2341586

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Replying To Canuck:  "Yes image Waterford got 28 scores in a loss. One score more than Cork. If you look at many of the long range points in games the play is uncontested. Part of this is the rucks have drawn players in and there is someone loose. Also how many points are we now seeing straight from the goal keeper to an unmarked player and over the bar with no play at all. We have the broadcasters calling these a fabulous score. A great score is where a player wins a ball and beats another player or two and then puts it over the bar. The players probable spend more time practicing this like your golf shot and I guess you can't blame them because it gets scores."
Hurling is very much like Rugby in that broadcasters make things out to be better than they actually are. As you say people harpe on about those great long range scores players get. But ignore the fast they're in yards of space with no one marking them.

Re scores coming straight from a puck out to an unmarked player. If something similar happened in football no one would say a word yet it's a great bit of skill in hurling.

I do like both games but this hurling love in has gone on for far too long. Many of the skills people talk about to justify hurling being the greatest game in the world are actually no longer even part of the game.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 704 - 13/05/2021 22:16:45    2341605

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Replying To oneoff:  "Hurling is very much like Rugby in that broadcasters make things out to be better than they actually are. As you say people harpe on about those great long range scores players get. But ignore the fast they're in yards of space with no one marking them.

Re scores coming straight from a puck out to an unmarked player. If something similar happened in football no one would say a word yet it's a great bit of skill in hurling.

I do like both games but this hurling love in has gone on for far too long. Many of the skills people talk about to justify hurling being the greatest game in the world are actually no longer even part of the game."
Are you honestly saying that sky etc don't make soccer out to be more exciting than it is? They'll show the two goals but they won't show the 87 or so minutes of the players having a glorified kick about.
Same with boxing for example. Show the ko, don't show the shadow boxing which constitutes 90%of the fight. . Every sport does it, but hurlings different in that there usually is actually something exciting happening.
I like most sports but I wouldnt put gaelic football, soccer, rugby in the same zip code as hurling in terms of the sport as a spectacle.
Pretty much every sport in earth gets its entertainment value from participants making mistakes.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 936 - 13/05/2021 23:20:03    2341618

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Replying To oneoff:  "Hurling is very much like Rugby in that broadcasters make things out to be better than they actually are. As you say people harpe on about those great long range scores players get. But ignore the fast they're in yards of space with no one marking them.

Re scores coming straight from a puck out to an unmarked player. If something similar happened in football no one would say a word yet it's a great bit of skill in hurling.

I do like both games but this hurling love in has gone on for far too long. Many of the skills people talk about to justify hurling being the greatest game in the world are actually no longer even part of the game."
now how anyone thinks rugby is a good game escapes me...hurling, gaelic and soccer (yes soccer) the ball goes up and down the field and there is always a chance of a score, the rules might annoy us by times but in general a foul is straight forward enough (whether we agree or not is another issue) Soccer is the slower of the three, but you have to watch it as there is a chance of a score...Rugby is slow, drawn out, over rated...there is a cross bar for I dont know what, as the scores only count between the posts, you either have to get it over the line on the ground or over the crossbar and between the posts, the rest of the goal from the cross bar down to the ground is defunct..breaks in play are long restarts are laborious slow..you cant pass the ball forward, you cant knock the ball forward, you can tackle almost anyway you want though, you can pull the jersey or shorts or both to keep hold of your opponent..drop kicks are the only real skill in the game and they are extremely rare...you get a penalty in front of goal but its often tapped in the hope of getting the must "try"..each to their own, but rugby does absolutely nothing for me...the clock timing of the game is the only thing that seems a good idea to import into Gaelic games...most over rated sport I ever seen and I have watched a few games over the years...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 866 - 14/05/2021 00:26:35    2341622

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Are you honestly saying that sky etc don't make soccer out to be more exciting than it is? They'll show the two goals but they won't show the 87 or so minutes of the players having a glorified kick about.
Same with boxing for example. Show the ko, don't show the shadow boxing which constitutes 90%of the fight. . Every sport does it, but hurlings different in that there usually is actually something exciting happening.
I like most sports but I wouldnt put gaelic football, soccer, rugby in the same zip code as hurling in terms of the sport as a spectacle.
Pretty much every sport in earth gets its entertainment value from participants making mistakes."
Agreed. As a fan of a team playing nearly every major team sport in the world none of them compare to hurling.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3204 - 14/05/2021 11:17:30    2341657

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "now how anyone thinks rugby is a good game escapes me...hurling, gaelic and soccer (yes soccer) the ball goes up and down the field and there is always a chance of a score, the rules might annoy us by times but in general a foul is straight forward enough (whether we agree or not is another issue) Soccer is the slower of the three, but you have to watch it as there is a chance of a score...Rugby is slow, drawn out, over rated...there is a cross bar for I dont know what, as the scores only count between the posts, you either have to get it over the line on the ground or over the crossbar and between the posts, the rest of the goal from the cross bar down to the ground is defunct..breaks in play are long restarts are laborious slow..you cant pass the ball forward, you cant knock the ball forward, you can tackle almost anyway you want though, you can pull the jersey or shorts or both to keep hold of your opponent..drop kicks are the only real skill in the game and they are extremely rare...you get a penalty in front of goal but its often tapped in the hope of getting the must "try"..each to their own, but rugby does absolutely nothing for me...the clock timing of the game is the only thing that seems a good idea to import into Gaelic games...most over rated sport I ever seen and I have watched a few games over the years..."
Ah no Rugby is the next best team sport to watch after hurling at the minute

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3204 - 14/05/2021 11:18:38    2341658

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Replying To Viking66:  "Ah no Rugby is the next best team sport to watch after hurling at the minute"
tell me what is so exciting about it...I dont see any great skill, over complicated rules on one hand, and no rule for what are deemed basic schoolboy fouls on the other hand (puling back by jerey or togs, hand and foot tripping) etc..you can score if you get the ball over the entire end line!!!..sorry...an over rated load of wannabe aristocratic boredom to me...just does nothing for me...the rare good game is watchable, but how often are they...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 866 - 14/05/2021 11:25:45    2341661

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Are you honestly saying that sky etc don't make soccer out to be more exciting than it is? They'll show the two goals but they won't show the 87 or so minutes of the players having a glorified kick about.
Same with boxing for example. Show the ko, don't show the shadow boxing which constitutes 90%of the fight. . Every sport does it, but hurlings different in that there usually is actually something exciting happening.
I like most sports but I wouldnt put gaelic football, soccer, rugby in the same zip code as hurling in terms of the sport as a spectacle.
Pretty much every sport in earth gets its entertainment value from participants making mistakes."
This is the thing. What is this "spectacle" that's always talked about.

Can you really say last years All Ireland was a spectacle? That it was in anyway exciting? The argument about games being higher scoring doesn't mean it's more exciting. In the modern game a huge amount of scoring comes from frees, 65s etc yet that's rarely ever mentioned.

I would arrange the likes of the Joe McDonough etc actually have more excitement than the Mccarthy Cup has.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 704 - 14/05/2021 11:32:42    2341663

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Plenty of hurling matches are not the spectacle they are made out to be....and an exciting finish often overshadows what was a dour game as the hyperbole/self glorification reaches the level of ridicule.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1377 - 14/05/2021 11:48:56    2341665

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