National Forum

New Advantage Rule In Hurling

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To football first:  "Grabbing opponent's hurley; holding with "spare" hand; tugging jersey as opponent is about to strike, or burst past the tackler; high tackle where hurley is brought across shoulder/neck. All these are very common, but often ignored because the ref is urged to "let the game flow"."
You think these subtle grey area fouls arent coached?!!!!!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11848 - 12/05/2021 11:23:30    2341236

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "You think these subtle grey area fouls arent coached?!!!!!"
Haha sadly all too true.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 12/05/2021 12:04:10    2341245

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "You think these subtle grey area fouls arent coached?!!!!!"
Of course they're coached - that was my original point. So instead of managers/coaches moaning about refs who "won't let the game flow" (another way of saying "ignore those fouls"), the game would be in a better place if these "grey area" fouls were stamped out.

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 12/05/2021 15:12:41    2341287

Link

What is the new rule? Or is it a new rule or just a new interpretation? Not looking for opinion coz i think we all agree that last weekend was crazy.

does anyone have the actual detail? Apologies if it is in the 4 pages of posts that i haven't read!!

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 12/05/2021 15:29:58    2341292

Link

Replying To football first:  "Of course they're coached - that was my original point. So instead of managers/coaches moaning about refs who "won't let the game flow" (another way of saying "ignore those fouls"), the game would be in a better place if these "grey area" fouls were stamped out."
Sorry misunderstood you. Agree that stamping out those fouls at source would be better. But it's a big leap of faith telling your lads not to do those things while hoping against hope that your opponents wont either or that the ref will punish them......

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11848 - 12/05/2021 15:41:16    2341295

Link

Two examples of how rule was used completely different,ref in limerick match lee for a free as Conor Boylan put a ball over the bar..why wasn't score allowed?in cork game ref played advantage for a foul on Kingston goal scored..he then came back and sent Waterford player off..Laois had a player sin binned for pulling down a forward..Antrim got away with the same in their game..now where is the consistency and these are reasons managers and supporters get p...ed off..I would also compliment dowling,thought he was straight talking and no bull..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2216 - 12/05/2021 16:01:16    2341301

Link

Replying To football first:  "Of course they're coached - that was my original point. So instead of managers/coaches moaning about refs who "won't let the game flow" (another way of saying "ignore those fouls"), the game would be in a better place if these "grey area" fouls were stamped out."
So how do you propose I tackle in the below scenarios once the club games are back:
Scenario 1: "A player picks up the ball, runs straight at me, grabs me, falls to the ground." Or are you saying I should disappear into thin air and let him run through me, or how should I tackle in this scenario?
Scenario 2: "A player is solo running, I chase him and put in my hurl to try flick the ball away. He grabs my hurl, and my arm, and pulls me to the ground".

How should I tackle in both of these scenarios, which happen a lot in every game?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 12/05/2021 16:08:43    2341302

Link

Clearly the only option is to just get rid of the ref in hurling altogether. Seeing as many seem to have an issue with everything.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 12/05/2021 17:31:21    2341314

Link

Replying To football first:  "Of course they're coached - that was my original point. So instead of managers/coaches moaning about refs who "won't let the game flow" (another way of saying "ignore those fouls"), the game would be in a better place if these "grey area" fouls were stamped out."
The "letting the game flow" is a big part of the program. It basically gives free range for dirty play as being "part of the game"

It's also funny to see people saying there's no diving in hurling when an absolutely huge amount of scores in the modern game are coming from frees.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 12/05/2021 17:34:33    2341315

Link

Replying To Heftydickonem:  "The "let it flow" era gave us some of the greatest matches of all time with people just a few seasons ago rejoicing in hurling being the best game in the world. Now 2 or three seasons later, the game as a spectacle has degraded greatly.

Besides the absence of crowds due to the pandemic, whatever could have caused this change?

The game now is "finding your man", it's running up the field throwing the ball back and forth to your teammates until you get bottled up and then "popping" it back out to your half back for yet another shot from 90m, it's systematic fouling by your half forwards, it's being happy to not threaten the goals, it's "trusting the process", it's boring. Thanks Limerick"
So scoring 24 points from from play and forcing five or six brilliant saves from Eoin Murphy is boring-really. Back in 1999 all KK could score was 12 points IN TOTAL on All Ireland Final day, in a final played on a September day (in fairness the other great hurling county Cork could only score one more). I would also point out that Waterford took about six pot shots at Nicky Quaid and Jack Fagan was narrowly wide with a goal effort at the start of the game, in last years final. So much for all the 'negative crop' we hear about Limerick. Hefty, have seen of those glorious points scored from all angles and distance right through a championship played in the worst Winter conditions. And remember they scored four goals against Tipperary- yes the hand pass given by Cian Lynch to Gearoid was shown to be wrongly called and that goal should have been allowed. Tell me again when did Kilkenny score four goals against the Premier County in a championship game. If these scores are so easy to get why did KK fail to beat a Waterford, a side that Limerick beat twice,
I'll tell you straight Hefty, what is worrying you is nothing to do with boredom, but a lot more to do with the fact that one the lesser lights of hurling are coming to the top. Maybe Anthony Daly was right was right when he said 'twas fine for Clare to win an All Ireland, but when they had the cheek to win a second one the attitude changed to 'why dont ye ***k off down to Doolin and yere traditional music' and leave hurling to the 'Landlords'. Hefty i must acquaint you with the words of Liam Griffin when he said 'winners are winners and losers make excuses'. And that of the most iconic of Tipperary sportsmen,, the illustrious John Doyle, when he said 'winning is not the most important thing- its the only thing' .

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 12/05/2021 18:11:28    2341322

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "So scoring 24 points from from play and forcing five or six brilliant saves from Eoin Murphy is boring-really. Back in 1999 all KK could score was 12 points IN TOTAL on All Ireland Final day, in a final played on a September day (in fairness the other great hurling county Cork could only score one more). I would also point out that Waterford took about six pot shots at Nicky Quaid and Jack Fagan was narrowly wide with a goal effort at the start of the game, in last years final. So much for all the 'negative crop' we hear about Limerick. Hefty, have seen of those glorious points scored from all angles and distance right through a championship played in the worst Winter conditions. And remember they scored four goals against Tipperary- yes the hand pass given by Cian Lynch to Gearoid was shown to be wrongly called and that goal should have been allowed. Tell me again when did Kilkenny score four goals against the Premier County in a championship game. If these scores are so easy to get why did KK fail to beat a Waterford, a side that Limerick beat twice,
I'll tell you straight Hefty, what is worrying you is nothing to do with boredom, but a lot more to do with the fact that one the lesser lights of hurling are coming to the top. Maybe Anthony Daly was right was right when he said 'twas fine for Clare to win an All Ireland, but when they had the cheek to win a second one the attitude changed to 'why dont ye ***k off down to Doolin and yere traditional music' and leave hurling to the 'Landlords'. Hefty i must acquaint you with the words of Liam Griffin when he said 'winners are winners and losers make excuses'. And that of the most iconic of Tipperary sportsmen,, the illustrious John Doyle, when he said 'winning is not the most important thing- its the only thing' ."
"winning isn't the most important thing - it's the only thing",, straight outta the Lance Armstrong play book

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 12/05/2021 19:41:30    2341334

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  ""winning isn't the most important thing - it's the only thing",, straight outta the Lance Armstrong play book"
After over 40 years of misery I'd rather see Limerick win ugly than lose heroically any day.

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1062 - 12/05/2021 20:42:17    2341349

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "So scoring 24 points from from play and forcing five or six brilliant saves from Eoin Murphy is boring-really. Back in 1999 all KK could score was 12 points IN TOTAL on All Ireland Final day, in a final played on a September day (in fairness the other great hurling county Cork could only score one more). I would also point out that Waterford took about six pot shots at Nicky Quaid and Jack Fagan was narrowly wide with a goal effort at the start of the game, in last years final. So much for all the 'negative crop' we hear about Limerick. Hefty, have seen of those glorious points scored from all angles and distance right through a championship played in the worst Winter conditions. And remember they scored four goals against Tipperary- yes the hand pass given by Cian Lynch to Gearoid was shown to be wrongly called and that goal should have been allowed. Tell me again when did Kilkenny score four goals against the Premier County in a championship game. If these scores are so easy to get why did KK fail to beat a Waterford, a side that Limerick beat twice,
I'll tell you straight Hefty, what is worrying you is nothing to do with boredom, but a lot more to do with the fact that one the lesser lights of hurling are coming to the top. Maybe Anthony Daly was right was right when he said 'twas fine for Clare to win an All Ireland, but when they had the cheek to win a second one the attitude changed to 'why dont ye ***k off down to Doolin and yere traditional music' and leave hurling to the 'Landlords'. Hefty i must acquaint you with the words of Liam Griffin when he said 'winners are winners and losers make excuses'. And that of the most iconic of Tipperary sportsmen,, the illustrious John Doyle, when he said 'winning is not the most important thing- its the only thing' ."
I think it is silly to say scoring 24 points means a game isn't boring. I have seen plenty of matches wher a score might be 1-15 to 1-13 and there was more hurling in those matches then the ones today. I am not blaming Limerick, it is the way the game is played. I watched the '98 Munster final replay the other evening. It was terribly exciting. Man on man hurling. Dirty at times bu,t the energy was off the charts. Ball was hardly ever thrown in considering the physical nature of the match. Let's not be fooled the game has changed dramatically in the last 4 or 5 years. The 2014 All Ireland drawn game and 1993 drawn match between Kilkenny and Wexford were as a good a games as I have ever seen, today's game has little resemblence to them. Again not blaming Limerick they are playing the game the way everyone is playing today they are just better then everyone else right now but, from a spectator's view not the game it use to be. To me the older game was better.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 12/05/2021 21:14:00    2341354

Link

Replying To gatha:  "I think it is silly to say scoring 24 points means a game isn't boring. I have seen plenty of matches wher a score might be 1-15 to 1-13 and there was more hurling in those matches then the ones today. I am not blaming Limerick, it is the way the game is played. I watched the '98 Munster final replay the other evening. It was terribly exciting. Man on man hurling. Dirty at times bu,t the energy was off the charts. Ball was hardly ever thrown in considering the physical nature of the match. Let's not be fooled the game has changed dramatically in the last 4 or 5 years. The 2014 All Ireland drawn game and 1993 drawn match between Kilkenny and Wexford were as a good a games as I have ever seen, today's game has little resemblence to them. Again not blaming Limerick they are playing the game the way everyone is playing today they are just better then everyone else right now but, from a spectator's view not the game it use to be. To me the older game was better."
This argument of games being higher scoring means that there better is another new thing.

Last years All Ireland final was incredibly boring and the fact Limerick scored 24 points from play doesn't change that. When players are hitting scores from 70/80 meters does not make a game exciting to watch.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 12/05/2021 21:49:31    2341362

Link

Replying To gatha:  "I think it is silly to say scoring 24 points means a game isn't boring. I have seen plenty of matches wher a score might be 1-15 to 1-13 and there was more hurling in those matches then the ones today. I am not blaming Limerick, it is the way the game is played. I watched the '98 Munster final replay the other evening. It was terribly exciting. Man on man hurling. Dirty at times bu,t the energy was off the charts. Ball was hardly ever thrown in considering the physical nature of the match. Let's not be fooled the game has changed dramatically in the last 4 or 5 years. The 2014 All Ireland drawn game and 1993 drawn match between Kilkenny and Wexford were as a good a games as I have ever seen, today's game has little resemblence to them. Again not blaming Limerick they are playing the game the way everyone is playing today they are just better then everyone else right now but, from a spectator's view not the game it use to be. To me the older game was better."
Well Gatha, I am going to matches since the early sixties and that KK/LK games of '18 and '19 were as good as any games I saw before. I saw the 2000 Limerick/ Cork Munster tie the other night and to be honest, though there was lot of blood and bluster, skill was thin on the ground and do not get me started on the distribution. TJ Ryan and Mark Foley bursting out like bulls, opening their shoulders and belting the ball down to where the Rock, Wayne Sherlock and Corcoran almost invariably caught and belted it back again. No imagination, very poor distribution and points missed from thirty yards out by some of the then top forwards in the game. Are you seriously telling that the 2018 All Ireland Semi Finals were not brilliant games. Time and again on the recording I heard Michael Duignan gasp as some of the displays of skill from various players and I can understand because some of the pick ups under pressure were phenomenal, as well as the brilliant points taken and that went for members of all four teams.
Remember lads every thing evolves and changes. Things that don't just die. Tipp had a much feared Full Line in the Fifties/Sixties of Doyle Maher and Carey, a group that had about twenty All Ireland Medals between them. I am quite sure at least two of these men would not be left next or near a county hurling team to day and the third would certainly not have played nineteen years at inter county level.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 12/05/2021 22:15:11    2341367

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "So scoring 24 points from from play and forcing five or six brilliant saves from Eoin Murphy is boring-really. Back in 1999 all KK could score was 12 points IN TOTAL on All Ireland Final day, in a final played on a September day (in fairness the other great hurling county Cork could only score one more). I would also point out that Waterford took about six pot shots at Nicky Quaid and Jack Fagan was narrowly wide with a goal effort at the start of the game, in last years final. So much for all the 'negative crop' we hear about Limerick. Hefty, have seen of those glorious points scored from all angles and distance right through a championship played in the worst Winter conditions. And remember they scored four goals against Tipperary- yes the hand pass given by Cian Lynch to Gearoid was shown to be wrongly called and that goal should have been allowed. Tell me again when did Kilkenny score four goals against the Premier County in a championship game. If these scores are so easy to get why did KK fail to beat a Waterford, a side that Limerick beat twice,
I'll tell you straight Hefty, what is worrying you is nothing to do with boredom, but a lot more to do with the fact that one the lesser lights of hurling are coming to the top. Maybe Anthony Daly was right was right when he said 'twas fine for Clare to win an All Ireland, but when they had the cheek to win a second one the attitude changed to 'why dont ye ***k off down to Doolin and yere traditional music' and leave hurling to the 'Landlords'. Hefty i must acquaint you with the words of Liam Griffin when he said 'winners are winners and losers make excuses'. And that of the most iconic of Tipperary sportsmen,, the illustrious John Doyle, when he said 'winning is not the most important thing- its the only thing' ."
I have to say i enjoyed reading this post, I could sense the passion in the retort and you make some fair points. Although I'm not sure why you chose an all-ireland final from over 20 years ago as an example, the game has undergone several evolutions in the meantime. In truth my post was somewhat tongue in cheek and was intended to get a rise of PatOLogical who appears deranged with his hatred of Kilkenny

I will say you are completely wrong about the boredom though, I genuinely do not like the way hurling has evolved over the last four or five seasons, while it is a stretch to call it boring, it is definitely a lesser spectacle for it.
Do I blame Limerick, well they have certainly contributed to it, but Limerick people won't and shouldn't care as long as they keep winning titles. The game will evolve again in time, I hope for the better but I have my doubts

Heftydickonem (Kilkenny) - Posts: 175 - 12/05/2021 22:44:54    2341373

Link

Replying To StoreysTash:  "A big problem in hurling is the "hear no evil, see no evil" culture which is part of it. If you ask many managers, former players, etc they just won't even give 1 second to any criticism of the game.
As a result, any attempt at changing anything, be it cynical fouling, abuse of referees, any other rule is met with the "hurling is perfect, leave it alone" brigade.
Hurling is not perfect, and anybody who can't see the cheating and feigning injury by ALL counties (including my own) is kidding themselves. There is much more needless off the ball stuff in hurling now than there was when I started playing adult hurling 6-7 years ago or going to Wexford matches 15 years ago. Maybe I was oblivious but that is how I see it.
The lads on Anthony Daly's hurling show were the first people I have heard start to challenge what is going on.

Re Austin Gleeson, sometimes you deservedly get a reputation that you can't rid yourself of. Re Mike Houlihan, I only saw one match he hurled in (1996 All-Ireland) and we don't want the game to go back to that era of hatchet fests either."
If the new rule (no advantage, just blow up immediately for frees) is given some time to bed in, will cynical fouls lessen, especially close to goal when the resulting free should translate into an automatic one-point opposition score ?

Is this the whole point of the new rule - get rid of the cynicism and have a free-flowing game less the fouls/frees ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2588 - 13/05/2021 04:38:37    2341384

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "So scoring 24 points from from play and forcing five or six brilliant saves from Eoin Murphy is boring-really. Back in 1999 all KK could score was 12 points IN TOTAL on All Ireland Final day, in a final played on a September day (in fairness the other great hurling county Cork could only score one more). I would also point out that Waterford took about six pot shots at Nicky Quaid and Jack Fagan was narrowly wide with a goal effort at the start of the game, in last years final. So much for all the 'negative crop' we hear about Limerick. Hefty, have seen of those glorious points scored from all angles and distance right through a championship played in the worst Winter conditions. And remember they scored four goals against Tipperary- yes the hand pass given by Cian Lynch to Gearoid was shown to be wrongly called and that goal should have been allowed. Tell me again when did Kilkenny score four goals against the Premier County in a championship game. If these scores are so easy to get why did KK fail to beat a Waterford, a side that Limerick beat twice,
I'll tell you straight Hefty, what is worrying you is nothing to do with boredom, but a lot more to do with the fact that one the lesser lights of hurling are coming to the top. Maybe Anthony Daly was right was right when he said 'twas fine for Clare to win an All Ireland, but when they had the cheek to win a second one the attitude changed to 'why dont ye ***k off down to Doolin and yere traditional music' and leave hurling to the 'Landlords'. Hefty i must acquaint you with the words of Liam Griffin when he said 'winners are winners and losers make excuses'. And that of the most iconic of Tipperary sportsmen,, the illustrious John Doyle, when he said 'winning is not the most important thing- its the only thing' ."
Great post Oldtourman,all very well said and this line in particularly i the icing on the cake.
"I'll tell you straight Hefty, what is worrying you is nothing to do with boredom, but a lot more to do with the fact that one the lesser lights of hurling are coming to the top. " Hear! Hear!

all was great when Brian Cody was saying after several All-Irelands that : "Galway were brilliant" , Tipp were brilliant" Cork were brilliant" but thank God (spoken in butter wouldn't melt in my mouth style) we managed to bring home Liam again despite have to beat the opposition , and browbeat the refs, umpires and the media before and after the game.
The wrap around tackle whether with hurley or arm, the hurley through the face mask, the swarm or 3 man tackle which has now evolved into a 'rugby style ruck" all came in to play and was allowed to flourish during the Cody era. Only to be further allowed to permeate our game by the statement to the press of " let the game flow", by none other than the saintly Eddie Keher. Nicely packaged and timely delivered. "Let the game flow me arse". How many times over the past 10 years have we heard, 'in order to beat Kilkenny you have to play like them". Now all f a sudden when the tables have turned starting with brilliantly taken Tom Morrisssey point, now WE HAVE T REEXAMINE THE RULES AND PUNISH CYNICAL FOULING BY LIMERICK, OR WHOEVER OTHER THAN KK. Let's do that and call as the first "expert witness" , Mr. Cody himself, who after all wrote the book on this style.

take note) Sauce for the goose sauce for the gander, (hefy whatever the rest of that is, take note. You lauded this stuff a few years ago when it was in your favor.)

Come On Ye Boys In Green

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1358 - 13/05/2021 05:16:28    2341386

Link

Replying To StoreysTash:  "So how do you propose I tackle in the below scenarios once the club games are back:
Scenario 1: "A player picks up the ball, runs straight at me, grabs me, falls to the ground." Or are you saying I should disappear into thin air and let him run through me, or how should I tackle in this scenario?
Scenario 2: "A player is solo running, I chase him and put in my hurl to try flick the ball away. He grabs my hurl, and my arm, and pulls me to the ground".

How should I tackle in both of these scenarios, which happen a lot in every game?"
In both scenarios it would seem that the foul is committed by the player in possession; it is up to the ref to spot this and award the free appropriately

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 13/05/2021 08:37:37    2341392

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  ""winning isn't the most important thing - it's the only thing",, straight outta the Lance Armstrong play book"
Yes, Lance Armstrong would have been a well known idol of John Doyle.....

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 13/05/2021 09:02:44    2341397

Link