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New Advantage Rule In Hurling

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I don't understand the update to the advantage rule in hurling. The advantage rule as it was, was one of the best structural innovations introduced in hurling for years, and it really helped the game as a spectacle. It allowed play to be more fluid, without constant stop/starts, but also meant fouls were't ultimately going unpunished.
And I have to say, I thought refs were generally implementing and using the rule brilliantly, it seemed to be a complete success.

So whats the rational for changing it?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 08/05/2021 17:54:12    2340577

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I'd have to agree the stop/start nature of Lim-tipp is awful..it's bad enough with the water breaks..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2205 - 08/05/2021 18:16:28    2340579

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "I don't understand the update to the advantage rule in hurling. The advantage rule as it was, was one of the best structural innovations introduced in hurling for years, and it really helped the game as a spectacle. It allowed play to be more fluid, without constant stop/starts, but also meant fouls were't ultimately going unpunished.
And I have to say, I thought refs were generally implementing and using the rule brilliantly, it seemed to be a complete success.

So whats the rational for changing it?"
The same rationale as 2 players not allowed to lift the cup, absolutely none.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 08/05/2021 18:19:42    2340580

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Actually happened today when Sutcliffe scored a point for Dublin straight from a puckout but instead of allowing the score to stand ref brought it back and the free was missed.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 08/05/2021 18:22:07    2340582

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Absolute scandal - you'd be guaranteed that the bucks that passed this, haven't played a game for 20 years . Refs who apply these rules correctly , will be lambasted for doing their job correctly . Years back, Brian Gavin was playing the advantage rule before it was even in the rule book, yet he still got the big games because his profile was high and the players preferred it that way . But any other refs that were trying to get to his level didn't have that same license for that level of discretion . A Catch 22 situation . It just drives you mad.

Micklow (Wicklow) - Posts: 118 - 08/05/2021 18:37:29    2340583

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I've heard and read the following phrase a few times today, in relation to this new rule: "the free is the advantage"

No. The free…IS THE FREE!
An advantage rule gives an advantage in lieu of an immediate free, the 2 things are mutually exclusive in that regard. If advantage doesn't accrue to the fouled party, THEN the free is given. Almost immediately awarding a free for a foul isn't playing an advantage, its the ABSENCE of playing an advantage.

There were 2 competing viewpoints for discipline in hurling, those who wanted to let the game flow without the ref intervening, and those who just wanted fouls penalized and the rules implemented, regardless. Refs were in a no-win situation. The advantage rule we had up to now met both requirements. Its infuriating to see something that was actually working well hamstrung for no compelling reason.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 08/05/2021 19:18:38    2340590

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "I've heard and read the following phrase a few times today, in relation to this new rule: "the free is the advantage"

No. The free…IS THE FREE!
An advantage rule gives an advantage in lieu of an immediate free, the 2 things are mutually exclusive in that regard. If advantage doesn't accrue to the fouled party, THEN the free is given. Almost immediately awarding a free for a foul isn't playing an advantage, its the ABSENCE of playing an advantage.

There were 2 competing viewpoints for discipline in hurling, those who wanted to let the game flow without the ref intervening, and those who just wanted fouls penalized and the rules implemented, regardless. Refs were in a no-win situation. The advantage rule we had up to now met both requirements. Its infuriating to see something that was actually working well hamstrung for no compelling reason."
Was the game any less fluid before they brought in the advantage rule a few years ago? The fact is that players are fouling alot more now. Im not a saying that the new rule is the way forward but the amount of silly fouls being committed is also a problem. Has the advantage rule up to now led to an increase in fouls because the advantage rule meant they went unchecked? Limerick were guilty of several silly hand around the player type fouls and rightly penalised.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 08/05/2021 21:36:24    2340609

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "I don't understand the update to the advantage rule in hurling. The advantage rule as it was, was one of the best structural innovations introduced in hurling for years, and it really helped the game as a spectacle. It allowed play to be more fluid, without constant stop/starts, but also meant fouls were't ultimately going unpunished.
And I have to say, I thought refs were generally implementing and using the rule brilliantly, it seemed to be a complete success.

So whats the rational for changing it?"
There is no rationale for it Marlon . It's a shocking rule change. Discretion is a very important part of decision making in every walk of life. In many instances discretionary choices are made on the basis of knowledge, experience and a feel for what you are doing. Good referees exercise discretion and common sense. In both football and hurling good referees add to the spectacle. The decision makers in the GAA have been assaulting the game of football with dreadful rules changes for a while now. Unfortunately with this shocking rule changes hurling referees have been robbed of their discretionary powers. Today's game suffered as a result. The assault on hurling has begun. The hurling community and indeed the football community now need to bare their teeth and fight back.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 08/05/2021 21:46:51    2340612

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Was the game any less fluid before they brought in the advantage rule a few years ago? The fact is that players are fouling alot more now. Im not a saying that the new rule is the way forward but the amount of silly fouls being committed is also a problem. Has the advantage rule up to now led to an increase in fouls because the advantage rule meant they went unchecked? Limerick were guilty of several silly hand around the player type fouls and rightly penalised."
Has the advantage rule up to now led to an increase in fouls because the advantage rule meant they went unchecked?

How would the advantage rule lead to fouls going unchecked? The rule doesn't mean ignoring fouls, it means allowing for an advantage to the fouled player before bringing the play back for a free if no advantage occurred.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 08/05/2021 22:14:12    2340617

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Replying To wexico15:  "Actually happened today when Sutcliffe scored a point for Dublin straight from a puckout but instead of allowing the score to stand ref brought it back and the free was missed."
Same thing happened with in the Gaelic Grounds in the second half

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4316 - 08/05/2021 22:29:40    2340620

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Zul 10 I agree limerick did give away a lot of silly frees..what I found annoying was tipp seemed to get away with things limerick were penalized for..also why did they change the advantage rule,if a player gets away after being fouled let him go and let the match progress..if the games are reffed for rest of year like today hurling will be destroyed..I've a feeling that physicality in hurling this year will be taken away..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2205 - 08/05/2021 23:13:32    2340623

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Brian Cody is probably grinning under his cap at all the analysis of fouls, such as, hand or (worse) hurley around the neck, throwing the hurley, pushing the helmet up from behind, jabbing through the face mask with the butt of the hurley, elbow to the face (pre helmet days) , etc. This was all part of Kilkenny's weekly drills for the past 15 years. Why are The Limericks, Tipps, Dublins and Clares of the hurling world now left to answer for the "smoking gun". Brian had his lackeys then go on social media to pre-empt refs by them urging them to "let the game flow", ie. "don't cry foul while my players go on a rampage.
Go back and address the cynical/foul/ penalty/sin-bin /advantage rule at its root rather than come up with
ridiculous stop-gap measures such as we are seeing with today's league openers.

Another ounce of prevention worth considering is to send Brian to the stand for the rest of the game the first time he mouths off to the referee. 2 Eddies (Keher and Brennan) , DJ and Charlie Cate may reply here as they are the usual defense force.
Great to have hurling back .. Let's return to "physical but fair while we're at it.

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1355 - 09/05/2021 00:14:01    2340634

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Here we go again, blame someone else other than the players for not letting the game flow. How about players stop fouling?
Anyone looking at hurling and the tactics used would understand that 5 seconds of advantage is never enough. Teams hunt in packs if you do manage to get the ball to a teammate he is also closed down, then it has to go to someone else, it could be 4 or 5 plays before someone in space gets the ball and the 5secs is well gone at that stage. If your freetaker is on song then the free is a point all day. As a player, which do you want, get the free take the score or run the risk of being turned over after the five seconds. I would take the free all day. Its not my fault that the crowds are complaining about stop start games, that's the fault of the players who foul. The fact that the two pundits yesterday couldn't even articulate that argument shows how little anyone should listen to what they say.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1799 - 09/05/2021 07:45:02    2340645

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Replying To PatOLogical:  "Brian Cody is probably grinning under his cap at all the analysis of fouls, such as, hand or (worse) hurley around the neck, throwing the hurley, pushing the helmet up from behind, jabbing through the face mask with the butt of the hurley, elbow to the face (pre helmet days) , etc. This was all part of Kilkenny's weekly drills for the past 15 years. Why are The Limericks, Tipps, Dublins and Clares of the hurling world now left to answer for the "smoking gun". Brian had his lackeys then go on social media to pre-empt refs by them urging them to "let the game flow", ie. "don't cry foul while my players go on a rampage.
Go back and address the cynical/foul/ penalty/sin-bin /advantage rule at its root rather than come up with
ridiculous stop-gap measures such as we are seeing with today's league openers.

Another ounce of prevention worth considering is to send Brian to the stand for the rest of the game the first time he mouths off to the referee. 2 Eddies (Keher and Brennan) , DJ and Charlie Cate may reply here as they are the usual defense force.
Great to have hurling back .. Let's return to "physical but fair while we're at it."
"throwing the hurley, pushing the helmet up from behind, jabbing through the face mask with the butt of the hurley, elbow to the face (pre helmet days) , etc. This was all part of Kilkenny's weekly drills for the past 15 years."
You are talking bullshit. Show me your evidence for this claim.

"Another ounce of prevention worth considering is to send Brian to the stand for the rest of the game the first time he mouths off to the referee."
So want a special rule that only applies to Brian Cody? All the other managers can carry on as normal mouthing off to the refs?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2445 - 09/05/2021 08:54:00    2340647

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I think a bit like rugby advantage should be allowed to continue until there is either a score or the opposition gets the ball.
It might encourage teams to go for the jugular if it is on, or at least try work a goal a bit like the garryowen in rugby.
Tipp Limerick was a good game ruined by its stop start nature.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 09/05/2021 09:16:31    2340648

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Replying To Marlon_JD:  "Has the advantage rule up to now led to an increase in fouls because the advantage rule meant they went unchecked?

How would the advantage rule lead to fouls going unchecked? The rule doesn't mean ignoring fouls, it means allowing for an advantage to the fouled player before bringing the play back for a free if no advantage occurred."
Yes I understand what an advantage rule is. Does the player who just fouled know he fouled if an advantage was given. Not always and it just might entice the player to do it again. Whatever the reason as someone else said there is too much fouling goin on of late. Most of it is simple hand around the player stuff but is still a foul. However I was impressed in the KK V Dublin game with the defending. There was alot more of that game played near or in the 20 metre area and I though both teams defended well and within the rules. It was obvious that they were aware of the consequences of fouling in that area. For me thats progress.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 09/05/2021 10:03:52    2340653

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Replying To zinny:  "Here we go again, blame someone else other than the players for not letting the game flow. How about players stop fouling?
Anyone looking at hurling and the tactics used would understand that 5 seconds of advantage is never enough. Teams hunt in packs if you do manage to get the ball to a teammate he is also closed down, then it has to go to someone else, it could be 4 or 5 plays before someone in space gets the ball and the 5secs is well gone at that stage. If your freetaker is on song then the free is a point all day. As a player, which do you want, get the free take the score or run the risk of being turned over after the five seconds. I would take the free all day. Its not my fault that the crowds are complaining about stop start games, that's the fault of the players who foul. The fact that the two pundits yesterday couldn't even articulate that argument shows how little anyone should listen to what they say."
Oh right. So you have a deeper understanding of the game than Anthony Daly and Henry Shefflin.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/05/2021 11:09:16    2340668

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Hurling is going soft. 21 frees against Limerick yesterday . About 5 were not frees. For 1 a tilp man picked the ball off the ground. Cathal Barret dived a few times. And there were 2 or 3 more that just weren't frees ...There is an issue with the loose hand but it's not a big issue. The new advantage rule will ultimately suit Limerick I think.. cos the mickey mouse frees won't be given come championship. If they are then Limerick probably won't win as they are a physical hard hitting team. The game is losing its collisions and thats a shame
.....Id agree with Daly and Shefflins view if the ref yesterday. Another soft Cork ref in my opinion

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 09/05/2021 11:28:08    2340671

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I dont agree. The game isnt going soft because you cant put your spare hand out and pull or drag the player. That kind of tackle didnt exist when hurling was tough. Im fed up of hearing this line that hurling is going soft because these kind of fouls are blown. Theres nothing tough about sticking your hand out and impeding a player. Plenty of hard and fair shoulders in all games yesterday were not called as fouls. Youve got it all mixed up.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 09/05/2021 11:53:27    2340682

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Zul 10 looking forward to hear what you think when Clare end up on wrong side of some of these decisions..it will be interesting next weekend to see what way the ref does implement the rules in limerick/Galway game.2 huge teams who are very physical..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2205 - 09/05/2021 14:02:06    2340699

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