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Replying To tonguey: " Replying To KillingFields: "I would not bother with Unionists if it involved changing what the GAA has stood for over the years to pander to them. Why should we lose our cultural identity to appease them?? Leave things as they are- we have managed fine without them so far so why change now?? They do not do a lot to include us in their culture/heritage. We should not be bowing before every other culture etc like we have in this country. I for one am sick to the teeth of it. We are losing so much as a result of this- they would come in and take over- would want Amhran na bhFiann stopped, tricolour removed, club names changed, ground names changed etc etc. And the PC brigade would keel over and do it for them to cater to their needs and to be inclusive and not discriminate etc. What about the hard working GAA people who would not want it- it always seems to be oh we need to change this or that to keep the minority happy and to protect their rights etc. What about the rights/wishes of teh majority who may not want it??? Very sickening country we have become. tonguey (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 29/04/2021 10:10:21 What sports organisations do unionists have that is like the GAA with the cultural in terms of language, irish flag, anthem at all games.... Some club names and ground names being changed wouldnt be a major issue and you could gain a huge amount from that" What could you gain by removing names from grounds?? I never said they had the Irish flag or anthem at their events?? What are you on about? Can you imagine the Unionists changing their marching regimes to include Catholics and removing their sashes?? Yea I think not" I'll reply to this one. You certainly won't lose anything by changing names, and if anyone who is a moderate in the North and doesn't go by any Nationalist/Republican or Unionist/Loyalist label, well if they get enticed into playing for a club that doesn't have names of IRA people, then you would be gaining. No one is asking the OO to change that. We know they are a sectarian organisation, and will continue to be until they want to change. The question is how the GAA can appeal to more, as we are not meant to be a sectarian organisation. If the OO did want to change and invite more in, then of course they would need to discuss those changes. But that's not the argument, no one is asking them Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2402 - 29/04/2021 12:47:35 2339292 Link
Replying To tonguey: "Well I am yes and I have no issue with admitting that- inclusive you say?? Of the people who you said in your following post that do not want to be part of organsiation in the first place? Makes good sense alright- let's change the names, the anthem, the flag etc and then what??? They still won't participate- that is sensible. Maybe let them make the first move for a change and start wearing green on their parades???" You're going in a very weird direction on this. Do you want to be part of their parades? Parades aren't sport, which is what we're discussing. No one is asking them to change their parades as we know by their very being that they are sectarian. The GAA is meant to be non sectarian and inclusive. The question was how could the GAA appeal more to them. The answer is not to get the OO to wear green. Jeez man... And I say as much, I'm simply saying that it is what you would need to do. You'll never appeal to hardliners, but moderates in the centre of the community would be more likely. It doesn't take much to change these, it doesn't take away from our games to do so Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2402 - 29/04/2021 12:51:33 2339294 Link
Some people on here seem to be forgetting about what the Gaelic Athletic Association was founded for, to preserve Irish cultural identity when it was under severe pressure. I don't see this goal as having been changed a bit. The reality is most unionists don't care about gaelic games. And if there are any it is always open to them to create new clubs such as the one created in East Belfast for example. Of far more importance strategically to the gaa is how to promote our games amongst those that used to be interested in them and have fallen away from it, one county dominance in football due to an unfair allocation of funds, rural clubs going to the wall without numbers which in turn is due to horrendous planning laws, the east coast getting all the jobs etc etc. republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 375 - 29/04/2021 13:03:22 2339296 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "You're going in a very weird direction on this. Do you want to be part of their parades? Parades aren't sport, which is what we're discussing. No one is asking them to change their parades as we know by their very being that they are sectarian. The GAA is meant to be non sectarian and inclusive. The question was how could the GAA appeal more to them. The answer is not to get the OO to wear green. Jeez man... And I say as much, I'm simply saying that it is what you would need to do. You'll never appeal to hardliners, but moderates in the centre of the community would be more likely. It doesn't take much to change these, it doesn't take away from our games to do so" So what would you name the stands in Croke Park then for example??? the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 29/04/2021 13:05:54 2339297 Link
Replying To tonguey: "Well I am yes and I have no issue with admitting that- inclusive you say?? Of the people who you said in your following post that do not want to be part of organsiation in the first place? Makes good sense alright- let's change the names, the anthem, the flag etc and then what??? They still won't participate- that is sensible. Maybe let them make the first move for a change and start wearing green on their parades???" Your giving things a real classic case of whataboutary here. Making assumptions that all unionists attend Orange parades and that the OO are a direct comparison to the GAA. It isn't much different than the standard bigoted view that the GAA is a breeding ground for the IRA. We will be stuck in a rut forever if that's going to be the attitude on both sides. I thought enough time would've passed by now for most people to understand this. SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 29/04/2021 13:12:26 2339299 Link
I'll expand and say to those on about getting unionists involved..there doesn't seem to be a mention of how the gaa seems to have failed to fully embrace the 'new Irish' as they can be patronizingly be called... children of African and Eastern European immigrants that arrived during the celtic tiger. There seems to be a distinct lack of such diversity coming through apart from some exceptions. There were 122,500 Polish people in the republic in the census of 2016. How many of those are in gaa clubs? These should be the target people to get involved. republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 375 - 29/04/2021 13:17:54 2339300 Link
Replying To republicofcloone: "Some people on here seem to be forgetting about what the Gaelic Athletic Association was founded for, to preserve Irish cultural identity when it was under severe pressure. I don't see this goal as having been changed a bit. The reality is most unionists don't care about gaelic games. And if there are any it is always open to them to create new clubs such as the one created in East Belfast for example. Of far more importance strategically to the gaa is how to promote our games amongst those that used to be interested in them and have fallen away from it, one county dominance in football due to an unfair allocation of funds, rural clubs going to the wall without numbers which in turn is due to horrendous planning laws, the east coast getting all the jobs etc etc." Agree 100% I have no issue with Unionists playing GAA, but not at the expense of our heritage/culture. When in Rome.......... the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 29/04/2021 13:22:11 2339302 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "I'll take you up on your last point. It simply won't happen without many changes that would be needed, but which would be unpalatable to current members. I know a fair few people of a Unionist persuasion, and simply put they see the GAA as the sporting wing of the IRA. Now we all know that isn't the case, but it's how it is portrayed to them. First step that would need to be done would be the removal of glorification of IRA members, hunger strikers etc. in the North on team names, cups, club grounds and so forth. That would need to be done for them to even consider it (and even then it'd be a stretch) and it probably won't happen due to members pushing back against these changes. Lots then to do after that to bring them in (East Belfast GAA is doing good work there in that regard) but there's your answer..." The DUP favourite as next leader believes the Earth is only 4,000 years old. There is no reasoning with those people. They would rather eat each other than have anything to do with the GAA but the good news is their support is plummeting. Young people don't want to have anything to do with evangelical Christian nut jobs who believe in gay conversion therapy...I mean come on. It's laughable even such a bill would be brought before a western democracy in 2021. yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 29/04/2021 13:22:54 2339303 Link
Replying To SaffronDon: "Your giving things a real classic case of whataboutary here. Making assumptions that all unionists attend Orange parades and that the OO are a direct comparison to the GAA. It isn't much different than the standard bigoted view that the GAA is a breeding ground for the IRA. We will be stuck in a rut forever if that's going to be the attitude on both sides. I thought enough time would've passed by now for most people to understand this." I never said that all Unionists attend parades- where did I say that??? Just as not all Nationalists play GAA- what are you on about?? the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 29/04/2021 13:24:43 2339304 Link
Replying To republicofcloone: "I'll expand and say to those on about getting unionists involved..there doesn't seem to be a mention of how the gaa seems to have failed to fully embrace the 'new Irish' as they can be patronizingly be called... children of African and Eastern European immigrants that arrived during the celtic tiger. There seems to be a distinct lack of such diversity coming through apart from some exceptions. There were 122,500 Polish people in the republic in the census of 2016. How many of those are in gaa clubs? These should be the target people to get involved." Perhaps there isn't much interest among the new Irish in gaelic games? Soccer is the biggest sport in Africa and Eastern Europe so alot of immigrants might choose to send their children to play with their local soccer teams instead of their local gaelic or hurling teams. I agree that it needs to be addressed however,, here in Galway city I'd guess that 1/3 if not more of the kids here have parents who come from abroad and that figure will significantly increase as the years go by so the Gaa needs to try to get them interested. Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1720 - 29/04/2021 13:28:23 2339307 Link
Replying To republicofcloone: "Some people on here seem to be forgetting about what the Gaelic Athletic Association was founded for, to preserve Irish cultural identity when it was under severe pressure. I don't see this goal as having been changed a bit. The reality is most unionists don't care about gaelic games. And if there are any it is always open to them to create new clubs such as the one created in East Belfast for example. Of far more importance strategically to the gaa is how to promote our games amongst those that used to be interested in them and have fallen away from it, one county dominance in football due to an unfair allocation of funds, rural clubs going to the wall without numbers which in turn is due to horrendous planning laws, the east coast getting all the jobs etc etc." Would it be safe to assume that a lot has changed in Ireland since 1884? Back when the British put a ban on any or all Irish traditions. There was a good reason to take a strong vow to preserve the games at all costs in their purist form including honouring acts of bravery from men who stood up to this brutality. I've got no problem that club or stands were named after those men as they were men of their times. But I also see it important to stay moving with the times and trying to apply the same rules across the board today that we did nearly 150 years ago just isn't going to work. I'm not calling for removal of all names at the drop of a hat but it would make sense to keep an open mind going forward. I dont think the GAA or Irish culture in general would benefit from being known as a backward thinking sub culture organisation with a high handed attitude to anyone not from a GAA background. SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 29/04/2021 13:30:27 2339308 Link
Replying To tonguey: "I never said that all Unionists attend parades- where did I say that??? Just as not all Nationalists play GAA- what are you on about??" "Maybe let THEM make changes to THEIR parades first" doesn't exactly separate unionism from the OO does it? SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 29/04/2021 13:41:07 2339314 Link
Replying To yew_tree: "The DUP favourite as next leader believes the Earth is only 4,000 years old. There is no reasoning with those people. They would rather eat each other than have anything to do with the GAA but the good news is their support is plummeting. Young people don't want to have anything to do with evangelical Christian nut jobs who believe in gay conversion therapy...I mean come on. It's laughable even such a bill would be brought before a western democracy in 2021." No one is on about the DUP. They are the extremists. You are never going to entice the hardliners, extremists etc. But there are many moderates who do not identify as either community and many mild unionists who are in the centre and these would be who I'd talk about. Everyone fully knows what the DUP are about like you mention, and they are imploding. As they should. Not to disparage all who vote for them, some have simply no option when they get to the ballot box. That's a failing of the DUP and the fear of themmuns and SF that they push to keep their votes up Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2402 - 29/04/2021 13:48:47 2339316 Link
Replying To republicofcloone: "Some people on here seem to be forgetting about what the Gaelic Athletic Association was founded for, to preserve Irish cultural identity when it was under severe pressure. I don't see this goal as having been changed a bit. The reality is most unionists don't care about gaelic games. And if there are any it is always open to them to create new clubs such as the one created in East Belfast for example. Of far more importance strategically to the gaa is how to promote our games amongst those that used to be interested in them and have fallen away from it, one county dominance in football due to an unfair allocation of funds, rural clubs going to the wall without numbers which in turn is due to horrendous planning laws, the east coast getting all the jobs etc etc." Things do change though. That was at a time when being Irish and our culture was under threat. It's not anymore, thanks to the likes of the GAA. But there's no harm in growing it while we can. We've already over the years got rid of a lot of the rules that prevented many peoples joining, and there is no reason why the GAA can't continue to grow, still identify with this Irishness, but also getting rid of very contentious names and such. We should be able to ask about these, while still growing our organisation. We can't stand still. Many many members (such as myself) don't identify as Catholic anymore which was a big thing at the start. Things change Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2402 - 29/04/2021 13:53:09 2339317 Link
Replying To tonguey: "So what would you name the stands in Croke Park then for example???" No issue with those. I'm on about some names in the North that have names of people who were involved in a paramilitary organisation that still has victims and their direct families living in those same communities. Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2402 - 29/04/2021 13:56:03 2339320 Link
Replying To SaffronDon: "Would it be safe to assume that a lot has changed in Ireland since 1884? Back when the British put a ban on any or all Irish traditions. There was a good reason to take a strong vow to preserve the games at all costs in their purist form including honouring acts of bravery from men who stood up to this brutality. I've got no problem that club or stands were named after those men as they were men of their times. But I also see it important to stay moving with the times and trying to apply the same rules across the board today that we did nearly 150 years ago just isn't going to work. I'm not calling for removal of all names at the drop of a hat but it would make sense to keep an open mind going forward. I dont think the GAA or Irish culture in general would benefit from being known as a backward thinking sub culture organisation with a high handed attitude to anyone not from a GAA background." Exactly, similar to my own thoughts... Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2402 - 29/04/2021 13:57:22 2339321 Link
Replying To SaffronDon: ""Maybe let THEM make changes to THEIR parades first" doesn't exactly separate unionism from the OO does it?" Where did I say all unionists attend parades???? If you cannot answer that question then you should not have said that I did say it. the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 29/04/2021 14:00:34 2339323 Link
Replying To SaffronDon: "Would it be safe to assume that a lot has changed in Ireland since 1884? Back when the British put a ban on any or all Irish traditions. There was a good reason to take a strong vow to preserve the games at all costs in their purist form including honouring acts of bravery from men who stood up to this brutality. I've got no problem that club or stands were named after those men as they were men of their times. But I also see it important to stay moving with the times and trying to apply the same rules across the board today that we did nearly 150 years ago just isn't going to work. I'm not calling for removal of all names at the drop of a hat but it would make sense to keep an open mind going forward. I dont think the GAA or Irish culture in general would benefit from being known as a backward thinking sub culture organisation with a high handed attitude to anyone not from a GAA background." I completely agree with you however in the North the GAA never really lost that symbolism. That has been changing and will change more until the GAA in the North, will reflect more of what it does in the south where its all about the locality and pride in the parish. When you read the GAAs website you don't read any of the stuff that some people here think it stands today for https://www.gaa.ie/the-gaa/about-the-gaa/. The GAA is about community and once people realise that they are stronger together than apart hopefully things will change. We can leave the flags and songs to the body politic. zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1805 - 29/04/2021 14:22:32 2339331 Link
Replying To tonguey: "Where did I say all unionists attend parades???? If you cannot answer that question then you should not have said that I did say it." I just gave you an example of how you described unionism with an ugly stereotype. It's a familiar old rant I've heard many times. Maybe that wasn't your intentions as you seem to be deflecting from it now. I can only go by what you typed, so what are you trying to tell us if that's not what you meant? SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 29/04/2021 14:38:23 2339336 Link
anyone know who is on the late late show tomorrow night?? the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 29/04/2021 14:42:35 2339337 Link