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stick to topic lads please

the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 26/04/2021 11:52:51    2338804

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I think the point we're all trying to make is that super/elite leagues are a detriment to any sport and Dublin are now operating at that level in Gaelic football but don't have any competition which gives us the consumer of our great national treasures the worst of both worlds.

Galway4ever (Galway) - Posts: 189 - 26/04/2021 16:32:24    2338833

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Replying To Galway4ever:  "I think the point we're all trying to make is that super/elite leagues are a detriment to any sport and Dublin are now operating at that level in Gaelic football but don't have any competition which gives us the consumer of our great national treasures the worst of both worlds."
Ah no, I wouldn't say elitism / professionalism or what ever you want to call it is detrimental to all sports at all, I would say the opposite is true. What is detrimental to any sport though, or specifically to the integrity of a sporting contest run by a organization which prides and markets itself as one of the great amateur sporting associations in the world is to allow one team to operate at a semi professional level, use the associations HQ as if they owned it, fund them to the eyeballs, allow a major insurer stoke this fire with sponsorship of the semi professional team, while at the same time other counties are raffling houses to try and stay afloat, just in order that they keep their very faint hopes alive. You can't blame the tail when the dog allows it to wag it.

That's what you call detrimental.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 26/04/2021 22:03:28    2338863

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Nottingham Forest are the only team to have won more European Cups (two) than national league titles (one). Yes, Aston Villa won the European Cup in 1982."
If Clough and Taylor stayed together Forrest would have won alot more or if the FA gave them the England job, England would have done alot better in the 80's hard to say if they would have won a tournament.

It's disappointing that small club's have no chance of competing at European level anymore Forrest, Villa, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Celtic in 2003 those type of European journeys are things we'll never see again.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 1038 - 26/04/2021 22:36:43    2338871

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Replying To leitrimguy1985:  "Didn't the Yankees threaten to pull out of the Bronx too if they didn't get a new stadium built. And the new one cost a billion dollars I believe and it isn't a patch on the old one, sight lines etc poor in places. When you have a famed 'club' like the New York Yankees threatening to pull out of New York, it shows that money is king.

And the running joke in ice hockey is that it's most famous club, the Toronto Maple Leafs haven't won a Stanley Cup since the NHL expanded in the 1960s, much to the amusement of the rest of Canada."
I take a passing interest in American MLS games in that if they on television I'll watch them. I don't get franchise system in American sports St Paul/Minneapolis lost their ice hockey team The Stars to Dallas . The Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke moved the NFL team The Rams from his home city St Louis to LA. These franchise owners hold cities to ransom for their demands if they are not met they will move their team to a new city. The Glazers a few years back threatened to move the Buccaneers out of Tampa bay unless they got a new stadium, a stadium was built with public money to keep The Buccaneers in Tampa.

So here is my point National football Associations and UEFA should have never have allowed these type of owners get involved in European soccer. Also these middle-eastern owners with questionable human rights issues and how can a drinks company like Red Bull be allowed to own club's in different countries. It starting to back-fire on UEFA and these owners are challenging their power and competitions. The beautiful game is beginning to look finished.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 1038 - 26/04/2021 23:19:18    2338874

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "The Green Bay Packers are an exception.

The Packers are the only community-owned franchise in North America's four traditional major leagues. Rather than being the property of an individual, partnership, or corporate entity, they are held in 2014 by 360,584 stockholders. No one is allowed to hold more than 200,000 shares, or approximately 4% of the 5,011,557 shares currently outstanding. It is this broad-based community support and non-profit structure which has kept the team in Green Bay for nearly a century even though it is the smallest market in North American professional sports. Wikipedia."
Bayern Munich has a 50%+1 fan control threshold too - EPL should introduce the same.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2151 - 27/04/2021 00:11:08    2338878

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "The Green Bay Packers are an exception.

The Packers are the only community-owned franchise in North America's four traditional major leagues. Rather than being the property of an individual, partnership, or corporate entity, they are held in 2014 by 360,584 stockholders. No one is allowed to hold more than 200,000 shares, or approximately 4% of the 5,011,557 shares currently outstanding. It is this broad-based community support and non-profit structure which has kept the team in Green Bay for nearly a century even though it is the smallest market in North American professional sports. Wikipedia."
Bayern Munich has a 50%+1 fan control threshold too - EPL should introduce the same.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2151 - 27/04/2021 04:51:36    2338882

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "If Clough and Taylor stayed together Forrest would have won alot more or if the FA gave them the England job, England would have done alot better in the 80's hard to say if they would have won a tournament.

It's disappointing that small club's have no chance of competing at European level anymore Forrest, Villa, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Celtic in 2003 those type of European journeys are things we'll never see again."
It's not true to say "that small club's have no chance of competing at European level anymore" If they finish high enough in their respective leagues they will qualify. Celtic were knocked out in the 3rd qualifying round of this season's Champions League, and Rangers got to the last 16 knock out stage of the Europa League.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1500 - 27/04/2021 09:42:43    2338884

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "It's not true to say "that small club's have no chance of competing at European level anymore" If they finish high enough in their respective leagues they will qualify. Celtic were knocked out in the 3rd qualifying round of this season's Champions League, and Rangers got to the last 16 knock out stage of the Europa League."
Think he was making the point that clubs like Forest and Villa might not have won the European Cup in today's format.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3326 - 27/04/2021 11:25:28    2338913

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "I take a passing interest in American MLS games in that if they on television I'll watch them. I don't get franchise system in American sports St Paul/Minneapolis lost their ice hockey team The Stars to Dallas . The Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke moved the NFL team The Rams from his home city St Louis to LA. These franchise owners hold cities to ransom for their demands if they are not met they will move their team to a new city. The Glazers a few years back threatened to move the Buccaneers out of Tampa bay unless they got a new stadium, a stadium was built with public money to keep The Buccaneers in Tampa.

So here is my point National football Associations and UEFA should have never have allowed these type of owners get involved in European soccer. Also these middle-eastern owners with questionable human rights issues and how can a drinks company like Red Bull be allowed to own club's in different countries. It starting to back-fire on UEFA and these owners are challenging their power and competitions. The beautiful game is beginning to look finished."
But shur you can't stop such things in a free market. Many new stadiums in English football are built without the fans wanting it to happen, i'm thinking Highbury, the Boleyn Ground etc gone for shiny new stadiums that are solely built for corporate boxes.

Lets not forget that local owners usually owned the football clubs in England and they basically had players signed for life at a maximum wage which was I believe 20 pounds a week, this was up to the 1960s, and players could not get out of these contracts to go elsewhere without the owners permission, even if their contract was up.

leitrimguy1985 (Leitrim) - Posts: 57 - 27/04/2021 11:45:06    2338917

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Replying To Viking66:  "Think he was making the point that clubs like Forest and Villa might not have won the European Cup in today's format."
Exactly and scraping the cup winners cup robbed small club's who managed to win their domestic cup a good run in Europe like Aberdeen and Dundee United in the 80's.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 1038 - 28/04/2021 12:00:00    2339080

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Replying To leitrimguy1985:  "But shur you can't stop such things in a free market. Many new stadiums in English football are built without the fans wanting it to happen, i'm thinking Highbury, the Boleyn Ground etc gone for shiny new stadiums that are solely built for corporate boxes.

Lets not forget that local owners usually owned the football clubs in England and they basically had players signed for life at a maximum wage which was I believe 20 pounds a week, this was up to the 1960s, and players could not get out of these contracts to go elsewhere without the owners permission, even if their contract was up."
I know what your saying in relation to a free market but my point about the American owners is what The Glazers did in Tampa was totally unethical they threatened to pull out of the city unless they got a new stadium built, that new stadium was built with tax payers money not theirs. Same with Stan Kroenke with moving The Rams to LA, their Stadium was also built with tax payers money and the team was moved because his demands were not met in St Louis.

You do make a good point about how badly owners treated players back in the day, I watched a Johnny Giles interview talking about his treatment when he finished with Leeds he said he went to choke the chairman for a finish.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 1038 - 28/04/2021 12:46:33    2339093

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Replying To Galway4ever:  "I think the point we're all trying to make is that super/elite leagues are a detriment to any sport and Dublin are now operating at that level in Gaelic football but don't have any competition which gives us the consumer of our great national treasures the worst of both worlds."
Solution = split Dubs = brings them closer to the rest = and what exciting derbies we can expect !

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2151 - 29/04/2021 01:38:07    2339243

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "I take a passing interest in American MLS games in that if they on television I'll watch them. I don't get franchise system in American sports St Paul/Minneapolis lost their ice hockey team The Stars to Dallas . The Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke moved the NFL team The Rams from his home city St Louis to LA. These franchise owners hold cities to ransom for their demands if they are not met they will move their team to a new city. The Glazers a few years back threatened to move the Buccaneers out of Tampa bay unless they got a new stadium, a stadium was built with public money to keep The Buccaneers in Tampa.

So here is my point National football Associations and UEFA should have never have allowed these type of owners get involved in European soccer. Also these middle-eastern owners with questionable human rights issues and how can a drinks company like Red Bull be allowed to own club's in different countries. It starting to back-fire on UEFA and these owners are challenging their power and competitions. The beautiful game is beginning to look finished."
Good to see the EPL kicking a few of the rogues off their Committee perches.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2151 - 30/04/2021 00:54:05    2339455

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