National Forum

Should There Be A Back Door For Football?

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Replying To Meath10:  "They probably still wouldn't get a game"
Shhhh , he's making my week with his delusional talk. He will start eulogising Peter the avg soon :)

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17779 - 15/04/2021 11:17:01    2337275

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Thank you. I really needed a good laugh. And you gave me one. That's brilliant. I think go west had a song titled after you in 80s.
Brilliant. I love delusions. :)"
Yeah, I think Meath, your own county would be able for Armagh or Tipp, and a good day Cork or Roscommon. The rest I'm afraid would be well beyond the royal county. Ye'd probably bate Kildare, too.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 692 - 15/04/2021 11:25:17    2337276

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Yeah, I think Meath, your own county would be able for Armagh or Tipp, and a good day Cork or Roscommon. The rest I'm afraid would be well beyond the royal county. Ye'd probably bate Kildare, too."
We in top ten. And improving. That's all we ask. A few others in top ten including Tyrone are either stalled or going backwards.
We are realistic where we are and what we have to do, let's not forget we failed to beat Kerry mayo and Galway dues to goalkeeping errors and a error in back line at end of all games , so that's inexperience , but the potential and talent is there , very young team. We are very hopeful and excited about the league where we will make a huge effort to return to division one. And I firmly believe that will happen. So roll on the league

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17779 - 15/04/2021 12:11:59    2337286

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Replying To totalrecall:  "
Replying To CastleBravo:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "They are not needed and contribute nothing. Apart from millions to the GAA coffers, I thought everyone had realised by now that the Super 8's were nothing more than a money making racket. Sure we'll call them "Super" to make everyone feel important, classic case of blind loyalty."
Just to be a pedant, the GAA themselves never used the term "Super 8s" to refer to the QF groups. It was always the "Quarter Final Group Stage". "Super 8s" was a name invented by the media that everyone adopted."
or they should just get rid of the quarter final group stage altogether or phase 1, phase 2 or whatever it is called, the quarter final weekend over 2 days in august b/h was a much better format.............it is no coincidence that the super 8 format came in after the GAA got into bed with Sky"]Only the GAA could come up with a name as nonsensical as "Quarter Final Group Stage". Call it by whatever name, but it's all about grabbing as much money as possible.

AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1946 - 15/04/2021 12:12:08    2337287

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Replying To royaldunne:  "We in top ten. And improving. That's all we ask. A few others in top ten including Tyrone are either stalled or going backwards.
We are realistic where we are and what we have to do, let's not forget we failed to beat Kerry mayo and Galway dues to goalkeeping errors and a error in back line at end of all games , so that's inexperience , but the potential and talent is there , very young team. We are very hopeful and excited about the league where we will make a huge effort to return to division one. And I firmly believe that will happen. So roll on the league"
Are you sure your not Chiricahua Indian with the " we in top ten".

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 895 - 15/04/2021 12:27:25    2337288

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Replying To AfricanGael:  "
Replying To totalrecall:  "[quote=CastleBravo:  "[quote=AfricanGael:  "They are not needed and contribute nothing. Apart from millions to the GAA coffers, I thought everyone had realised by now that the Super 8's were nothing more than a money making racket. Sure we'll call them "Super" to make everyone feel important, classic case of blind loyalty."
Just to be a pedant, the GAA themselves never used the term "Super 8s" to refer to the QF groups. It was always the "Quarter Final Group Stage". "Super 8s" was a name invented by the media that everyone adopted."
or they should just get rid of the quarter final group stage altogether or phase 1, phase 2 or whatever it is called, the quarter final weekend over 2 days in august b/h was a much better format.............it is no coincidence that the super 8 format came in after the GAA got into bed with Sky"]Only the GAA could come up with a name as nonsensical as "Quarter Final Group Stage". Call it by whatever name, but it's all about grabbing as much money as possible."]Think it's more about watching the top teams compete against each other, Super eights are great, it's all about watching the game, no other sport comes close to GAA as fear as viewing goes.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 895 - 15/04/2021 12:58:40    2337291

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Should there be a back door for football? Yes

Should there be more than 1 game in the supposed primary competition for each team? Yes

Is it nonsensical to talk of hiking ticket prices to get more money from games whilst at the same time minimising the number of genuinely competitive matches? Yes

Is the GAA run badly? Yes Yes and heck Yes

Will someone justify this as all being due to Covid? Yes

Did the WHO decree that Football must be restricted to provincial competitions, and that Hurling could have a backdoor but not Football? No

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 744 - 15/04/2021 13:24:23    2337296

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Replying To tyroneed:  "Should there be a back door for football? Yes

Should there be more than 1 game in the supposed primary competition for each team? Yes

Is it nonsensical to talk of hiking ticket prices to get more money from games whilst at the same time minimising the number of genuinely competitive matches? Yes

Is the GAA run badly? Yes Yes and heck Yes

Will someone justify this as all being due to Covid? Yes

Did the WHO decree that Football must be restricted to provincial competitions, and that Hurling could have a backdoor but not Football? No"
Well said

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17779 - 15/04/2021 15:56:47    2337312

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Are you sure your not Chiricahua Indian with the " we in top ten"."
How !

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 863 - 15/04/2021 17:26:12    2337327

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Just a comment on Tyrone I can't see how anyone thinks they are going backwards, under new management and if they have a full panel mostly injury free they will be a tough test for anyone, might even be the team to finally stop Dublin this year, Tyrone Kerry semi final would be some game if they are both hitting form.
Ulster draw will be vital for us to avoid them in the first round at least this time.
I'd rather we were going into Championship with a back door in place, I couldn't care about the league, we'll be playing Tyrone Monaghan and Armagh in our northern section of div 1, we'll be sick looking at each other.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1766 - 15/04/2021 21:34:44    2337352

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Just a comment on Tyrone I can't see how anyone thinks they are going backwards, under new management and if they have a full panel mostly injury free they will be a tough test for anyone, might even be the team to finally stop Dublin this year, Tyrone Kerry semi final would be some game if they are both hitting form.
Ulster draw will be vital for us to avoid them in the first round at least this time.
I'd rather we were going into Championship with a back door in place, I couldn't care about the league, we'll be playing Tyrone Monaghan and Armagh in our northern section of div 1, we'll be sick looking at each other."
I agree with you 100% Tír Chonaill. Tyrone Will be much stronger this year and have a few players back including Cathal McShane. The Tyrone forward line is scary looking.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2732 - 15/04/2021 21:42:07    2337355

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Just a comment on Tyrone I can't see how anyone thinks they are going backwards, under new management and if they have a full panel mostly injury free they will be a tough test for anyone, might even be the team to finally stop Dublin this year, Tyrone Kerry semi final would be some game if they are both hitting form.
Ulster draw will be vital for us to avoid them in the first round at least this time.
I'd rather we were going into Championship with a back door in place, I couldn't care about the league, we'll be playing Tyrone Monaghan and Armagh in our northern section of div 1, we'll be sick looking at each other."
Good to see Armagh back up again. Pity about not being able to see games or will we?

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 895 - 15/04/2021 22:05:20    2337363

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Replying To sam1884:  "Sometimes it's fair to introduce a bit of balance. On their day Cavan were able to win an Ulster title last season. I wouldn't count Cavan much better, or even better than Meath or Kildare.

Dublin haven't had many "championship" games in the last six years outside of Leinster even mind within it. Kerry yes against 14 Dubs in the drawn final and a very good Mayo team in a few finals unless you want to count one or two super 8 games when Dublin were already safely through.

So to say Tyrone and Donegal would give Dublin a game in Leinster - there is no evidence to back that up, yet Cavan winning an Ulster title adds some weight to the argument Meath and maybe Kildare could give Ulster a go. I've had some debates with the original poster over the years but on this occasion I think he is close to being correct."
100% agree.

We haven't seen anything in years to suggest the Ulster teams could do anything against Dublin to back up the bluster from some posters on here.

About time the rest of the country starting waking up to the reality of what the GAA have created here. We've seen in Leinster for years that the football championship has been killed off.

Anyone spending hard earned money to attend football championship games needs their head checked.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 455 - 15/04/2021 23:20:28    2337370

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Partly agree except the straight knockout didn't effect Tipp or Cavan. Can't call it a straight knockout if it's not open draw, it's anything but straight. Different amount of matches to get to the same semifinal. Down the line it has to be open draw, Dublin v Donegal in Ballybofey for a first round match. Take away back doors then if they want, at least it's fair."
Martin Breheny showed in the Indy this week (13th) how a 2-chance AI could have been run off in 10 weeks (link below).

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/retaining-the-provincial-system-was-an-opportunity-squandered-for-an-open-draw-40310556.html

In his idea, teams winning in Rds 1 & 2 (Direct Route) would need to win 6 games (beaten once or unbeaten) to win the AI title, while all others would need to win 7 games (along with 1 defeat).

To ensure all Div 1&2 teams need to win 6 games, I would tweak as follows -

Direct Route
Prelim Rd (14 Div 4&3 teams, 17 byes to Rd 1)
Rd D1 (24 teams)
Rd D2 (12 teams)
Rd D3 (6 teams, 3 winners to AI KO QFs).

Qualifiers
Prelim Qual Rd Q1 (7 teams, 1 bye to Rd Q2)
Rd Q1 (16 teams)
Rd Q2 (14 teams)
Rd Q3 (10 teams, 5 winners to AI KO QFs).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2103 - 16/04/2021 02:26:36    2337373

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Greenfield (Meath) .... I agree with you totally as regards the football Championship.... far too many meaningless one sided games... Nobody with a brain in their head would pay in to see a game where the result is a forgone conclusion...especially neutral supporters... Having a back door only adds more meaningless games and really serves no purpose... Been a straight knockout adds excitement to games as seen last season .. eg Cork v Kerry... if there was a back door the result would not have the same significance...everyone would say " Kerry will beat them when it counts later on "..... All games should count but they don't when there is a back door... Straight knockout brings more excitement to what has become a dour and boring football Championship for the last number of years....!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 283 - 16/04/2021 11:27:42    2337383

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Greenfield (Meath) .... I agree with you totally as regards the football Championship.... far too many meaningless one sided games... Nobody with a brain in their head would pay in to see a game where the result is a forgone conclusion...especially neutral supporters... Having a back door only adds more meaningless games and really serves no purpose... Been a straight knockout adds excitement to games as seen last season .. eg Cork v Kerry... if there was a back door the result would not have the same significance...everyone would say " Kerry will beat them when it counts later on "..... All games should count but they don't when there is a back door... Straight knockout brings more excitement to what has become a dour and boring football Championship for the last number of years....!!"
Would agree. To a extent. That been said straight knockout only works if the provincials don't play a part. Open draw. Apart from that it's pointless, all counties can then look forward to a luck of the draw outcome and not face certain defeat when they face a professional team.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17779 - 16/04/2021 11:46:52    2337384

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Greenfield (Meath) .... I agree with you totally as regards the football Championship.... far too many meaningless one sided games... Nobody with a brain in their head would pay in to see a game where the result is a forgone conclusion...especially neutral supporters... Having a back door only adds more meaningless games and really serves no purpose... Been a straight knockout adds excitement to games as seen last season .. eg Cork v Kerry... if there was a back door the result would not have the same significance...everyone would say " Kerry will beat them when it counts later on "..... All games should count but they don't when there is a back door... Straight knockout brings more excitement to what has become a dour and boring football Championship for the last number of years....!!"
The counter argument to that is that the All Ireland quarter final stage has seen some hotly contested fixtures.

The 2 semifinals this year were a damp squib.

Would there have been a bit of excitement if a top team like Tyrone/Donegal/Kerry/Galway have gotten another go at it last year.

Would the Meath's/Kildare's/Monaghan/Armagh/Roscommon of the world have more chance of long term development Mitch more championship fixtures. These are the teams that can get left behind by not having more championship games.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3534 - 16/04/2021 11:52:45    2337385

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Would agree. To a extent. That been said straight knockout only works if the provincials don't play a part. Open draw. Apart from that it's pointless, all counties can then look forward to a luck of the draw outcome and not face certain defeat when they face a professional team."
I would advocate an open draw certainly... my only reason for wanting to keep the provincial system would be to give some of the so called weaker counties a chance of winning something... The examples been my own county Cavan .... Tipperary last year too.... Roscommon in recent years in the west.... Monaghan in recent times... An open draw would rule out any chance of silver ware for these types of teams.... Let's be honest here... regardless of what system we use the same 3/4 teams will always end up in the semifinals or Finals but by keeping the provincial championships gives the smaller counties something to aim at .... I have absolutely no doubt that Tipperary and Cavan got more joy (and gave their supporters more joy) out of winning their provincial titles than Dublin got out of winning yet another All Ireland..... I think it would be a shame to loose all that.... What do others think...?

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 283 - 16/04/2021 12:16:24    2337386

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "I would advocate an open draw certainly... my only reason for wanting to keep the provincial system would be to give some of the so called weaker counties a chance of winning something... The examples been my own county Cavan .... Tipperary last year too.... Roscommon in recent years in the west.... Monaghan in recent times... An open draw would rule out any chance of silver ware for these types of teams.... Let's be honest here... regardless of what system we use the same 3/4 teams will always end up in the semifinals or Finals but by keeping the provincial championships gives the smaller counties something to aim at .... I have absolutely no doubt that Tipperary and Cavan got more joy (and gave their supporters more joy) out of winning their provincial titles than Dublin got out of winning yet another All Ireland..... I think it would be a shame to loose all that.... What do others think...?"
I see what you saying and don't disagree with the merits. That been said the so called weaker counties of Westmeath Laois, Offaly, Louth, Longford etc haven't a hope of winning any silverware and having their championship season end very abruptly due to the province they are in. Even the two other counties who would be considered strong and could easily be competitive in other provinces (Kildare and my own Meath) haven't a realistic chance of winning Leinster unless there's a huge upset, so while there is benefit for 3 provinces there is not for 10 counties in Leinster, I'd be happy to keep the provincials IF, they were ran as a stand alone competition with perhaps the winners of each province getting a bye in first round of a open draw.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17779 - 16/04/2021 13:47:01    2337392

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Replying To royaldunne:  "I see what you saying and don't disagree with the merits. That been said the so called weaker counties of Westmeath Laois, Offaly, Louth, Longford etc haven't a hope of winning any silverware and having their championship season end very abruptly due to the province they are in. Even the two other counties who would be considered strong and could easily be competitive in other provinces (Kildare and my own Meath) haven't a realistic chance of winning Leinster unless there's a huge upset, so while there is benefit for 3 provinces there is not for 10 counties in Leinster, I'd be happy to keep the provincials IF, they were ran as a stand alone competition with perhaps the winners of each province getting a bye in first round of a open draw."
Scrap the provincials. Hanging onto them for nostalgia or whatever other reason is balderdash. With modern transport teams and supporters can travel anywhere in the country quite easily (even Kerry fans can make it Croke Park), so the days of having to play neighboring counties becoz a bicycle was all supporters had to go to the game are long, long gone. It tells a lot about a competition when people do not even know the name of the trophy that's being played for.

So RoyalDunne, without looking it up, what's the name of the trophy that the Dubs have won 10 times in a row in
Leinster for senior inter-county football?

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 692 - 16/04/2021 14:18:58    2337397

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