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Cillian O'connor POTY

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes Ray Cosgrove is unlucky and is often remembered for "That free". I used to take frees myself years ago and i probably would nt like to have to take an equalising free at the end of a match.On the other side people say what about Cluxtons free in 2011 or Rocks v Mayo and say they had so much bottle.I would argue the opposite.its a free shot.Score you re a hero .Miss and you re still in the game.As a child people grow up dreaming of taking a winning free in a final.Not too many dream of taking an equalising free.There is little or no pressure on a player when teams are level.The real pressure is when your behind and the last kick is to equalise.Alas that did nt work out for Cillian or Ray Cosgrove but they showed the bottle to take it so fair play,"
While I know what way you're looking at it CiarriaMick, I would see it a bit differently. Cluxton's free was taken when Dublin had more or less come back from the brink of defeat and it was a kick to win a first All Ireland in 16 years. There were no guarantees in those days that a replay was a good option and had he missed, who knows !
Rocks free in 17 was to seal a 3 in a row of All Ireland titles.
Not something many teams have achieved and one he was expected to score after a tough hard battle with Mayo.
I don't deny a free to earn a draw in any final carries pressure but I think those kicks were real pressure kicks too. I know I had my fingers chewed off anyway.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2313 - 24/02/2021 19:36:49    2332669

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "While I know what way you're looking at it CiarriaMick, I would see it a bit differently. Cluxton's free was taken when Dublin had more or less come back from the brink of defeat and it was a kick to win a first All Ireland in 16 years. There were no guarantees in those days that a replay was a good option and had he missed, who knows !
Rocks free in 17 was to seal a 3 in a row of All Ireland titles.
Not something many teams have achieved and one he was expected to score after a tough hard battle with Mayo.
I don't deny a free to earn a draw in any final carries pressure but I think those kicks were real pressure kicks too. I know I had my fingers chewed off anyway."
Oh look Dubh linn. I'm sure of course there is pressure but it's a nice pressure. Actually Cluxton himself actually commented on that free a few years ago saying he did nt feel pressure but if it was for a draw it would probably be a different matter. I'm not taking away from Cluxton or Rock at all. They both scored such important frees but my point is it would be more difficult and nerve wrecking to save a game. Your were biting your nalis? I had my head in my hands praying for some injury time. Don't mean to sound like it's an easy task at all just my opinion on those scenarios.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3936 - 24/02/2021 21:27:36    2332682

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "While I know what way you're looking at it CiarriaMick, I would see it a bit differently. Cluxton's free was taken when Dublin had more or less come back from the brink of defeat and it was a kick to win a first All Ireland in 16 years. There were no guarantees in those days that a replay was a good option and had he missed, who knows !
Rocks free in 17 was to seal a 3 in a row of All Ireland titles.
Not something many teams have achieved and one he was expected to score after a tough hard battle with Mayo.
I don't deny a free to earn a draw in any final carries pressure but I think those kicks were real pressure kicks too. I know I had my fingers chewed off anyway."
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if someone misses a free to win a game you ré still in it but when you ré taking a last minute free to save game it's in your head you might be letting everyone down. So for me there s more pressure on an equalising last gasp free but it's still a great achievement to kick a late winner too

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3936 - 24/02/2021 21:38:06    2332683

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I guess what I'm trying to say is that if someone misses a free to win a game you ré still in it but when you ré taking a last minute free to save game it's in your head you might be letting everyone down. So for me there s more pressure on an equalising last gasp free but it's still a great achievement to kick a late winner too"
I agree with ya,, cluxton himself said of the 2011 free that it came at the best possible time because if he missed the ref would have blown the whistle avd it would have been a draw,, so he knew they weren't gonna lose no matter what.
Woulda been tough to miss of course, but at least that way they would have gotten another shot, unlike the 2002 semi miss by Cosgrove.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 24/02/2021 22:09:02    2332687

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Oh look Dubh linn. I'm sure of course there is pressure but it's a nice pressure. Actually Cluxton himself actually commented on that free a few years ago saying he did nt feel pressure but if it was for a draw it would probably be a different matter. I'm not taking away from Cluxton or Rock at all. They both scored such important frees but my point is it would be more difficult and nerve wrecking to save a game. Your were biting your nalis? I had my head in my hands praying for some injury time. Don't mean to sound like it's an easy task at all just my opinion on those scenarios."
Cluxton did say that, more or less said a free is a free routine etc. However a quick look at the video tells a different story, after he places the ball, a big intake of breath, blows out inflating his two cheeks, under pressure, for sure, spoofin when he said otherwise.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 912 - 24/02/2021 22:10:35    2332688

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Oh look Dubh linn. I'm sure of course there is pressure but it's a nice pressure. Actually Cluxton himself actually commented on that free a few years ago saying he did nt feel pressure but if it was for a draw it would probably be a different matter. I'm not taking away from Cluxton or Rock at all. They both scored such important frees but my point is it would be more difficult and nerve wrecking to save a game. Your were biting your nalis? I had my head in my hands praying for some injury time. Don't mean to sound like it's an easy task at all just my opinion on those scenarios."
Oh I know you're not taking away from either of them and that's fair enough. I can see why there is a case to be made for your take on it alright I suppose it's probably down to the tension that was there in those moments that it felt like you were kicking it yourself.
That and half of Croke park willing you on and the other half cursing you.
It's history now anyway and they've well and truly left their mark.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2313 - 24/02/2021 22:26:14    2332689

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "Oh I know you're not taking away from either of them and that's fair enough. I can see why there is a case to be made for your take on it alright I suppose it's probably down to the tension that was there in those moments that it felt like you were kicking it yourself.
That and half of Croke park willing you on and the other half cursing you.
It's history now anyway and they've well and truly left their mark."
That's for certain Duibhlinn and will never be forgotten and rightly so.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3936 - 24/02/2021 23:50:01    2332694

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Replying To arock:  "With certain players, forwards especially when putting inferior opposition to the sword they shine. But when you have to dig deep and use everything to overcome impossible odds and you do it consistently thats the difference. He is stylish, elegant, lovely to watch, but not a team player. For POTY you got to have pretty much everything, and yeah being a POTY on Dublin some might say is easier, but some might say its the reason they are so good. But probably splitting hairs between players to be fair. POTY and All-stars are a joke anyway."
Not sure which players you are talking about putting inferior opposition to the sword but I know you can't be talking about Cillian O'Connor anyway!

His average score from play is actually higher in AI quarters onwards than it is in provincial championship.

He has 1.91 average from play in Connacht vs 2.65 average from play in quarters, semis and AI finals.

His average championship score vs Dublin is indeed higher than his average score against all other teams.

Scored four from play in the most recent final, three in the final before, and two in the final before that.

As for digging deep, he scored two in last 10 minutes of the 2017 final and kicked the last second equalizer in the 2016 final, both games kicking a huge one from around the 45.

Also was Mayo's top man at turning over the opposition in 2020 and regularly tracks back, so very much a team player, which is something people in Mayo have recognized since he's come on to the team.

jonjon (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 25/02/2021 11:51:29    2332719

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Replying To jonjon:  "Not sure which players you are talking about putting inferior opposition to the sword but I know you can't be talking about Cillian O'Connor anyway!

His average score from play is actually higher in AI quarters onwards than it is in provincial championship.

He has 1.91 average from play in Connacht vs 2.65 average from play in quarters, semis and AI finals.

His average championship score vs Dublin is indeed higher than his average score against all other teams.

Scored four from play in the most recent final, three in the final before, and two in the final before that.

As for digging deep, he scored two in last 10 minutes of the 2017 final and kicked the last second equalizer in the 2016 final, both games kicking a huge one from around the 45.

Also was Mayo's top man at turning over the opposition in 2020 and regularly tracks back, so very much a team player, which is something people in Mayo have recognized since he's come on to the team."
Most certainly would be talking about COC there, I'm afraid. It's very notable that COC's greatest scoring hauls have come against oppositions that have been truly abject on the day, beaten up a stick sort of mismatches. The Donegal game some years back, and the recent Tipp 'encounter' are two prime examples. Contrast that sort of 'gay abandon in garbage time', with his failure to execute key scores for Mayo at ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL squeaky bum moments in all-ireland finals. It's a contrast that you seem to be in denial about.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4154 - 25/02/2021 12:30:02    2332723

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Don't know why Mayo people get so worked up about people who question him.

He's a very good player who has been lucky enough to play in 5 finals and 6 including replays, he's been the go to man for them during that time. They look to give him the ball more then any other forward they have and he's their free taker hence why he's the all time top scorer. He wouldn't have made the Dublin team in recent years and that's the reality.

Mayo have been competitive in al those finals and he's never grabbed hold of the game like other great forwards have done in finals and he's not been short of opportunities. He'll go down as Mayo great but outside of the county he'll never be heralded in the same way the other top scorers are.

TheBishop (Galway) - Posts: 290 - 25/02/2021 12:40:13    2332725

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Think ye are being a bit harsh on him lads....wish we had him in Galway as a consistent freetaking option !!... surely he would be worth another 2/3 points per game ?... which would have made a big difference over the last few years

Black+Blue (Galway) - Posts: 134 - 25/02/2021 13:50:54    2332730

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "Most certainly would be talking about COC there, I'm afraid. It's very notable that COC's greatest scoring hauls have come against oppositions that have been truly abject on the day, beaten up a stick sort of mismatches. The Donegal game some years back, and the recent Tipp 'encounter' are two prime examples. Contrast that sort of 'gay abandon in garbage time', with his failure to execute key scores for Mayo at ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL squeaky bum moments in all-ireland finals. It's a contrast that you seem to be in denial about."
Hilarious of you to try and reduce him to 'gay abandon in garbage time' by picking two games over the last decade where he scored a lot from play (and you're somehow using that against him?)

I'm sorry that the last 10 min and indeed the last 10 seconds of All Ireland finals are not ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL squeaky bum moments, they must come in other matches.

Big games over the last 10 years:

Scoreless:
Donegal 2012
Dublin 2013
Dublin 2015 drawn game
Dublin 2016 replay
Kerry 2017 replay

1 from play 2011 Cork
3 (1 goal) from play 2011 Kerry
1 from play 2012 Dublin
10 (3-1) from play 2013 Donegal
3 from play Kerry 2014
5 (1-2) from play Kerry 2014 replay
4 (1-1) from play Dublin 2015 replay
3 from play Tyrone 2016
2 from play Dublin 2016
3 from play Kerry 2017
3 from play Dublin 2017
2 from play Kerry 2019
3 (1 goal) from play Donegal 2019
1 from play Dublin 2019
4 from play Dublin 2020

There's an honest summary of his scoring in big games.

Now add in the fact that he's one of the best free kick takers and you've got an excellent player who clearly performs in big games, including closing moments of finals

jonjon (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 25/02/2021 13:52:09    2332731

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Replying To TheBishop:  "Don't know why Mayo people get so worked up about people who question him.

He's a very good player who has been lucky enough to play in 5 finals and 6 including replays, he's been the go to man for them during that time. They look to give him the ball more then any other forward they have and he's their free taker hence why he's the all time top scorer. He wouldn't have made the Dublin team in recent years and that's the reality.

Mayo have been competitive in al those finals and he's never grabbed hold of the game like other great forwards have done in finals and he's not been short of opportunities. He'll go down as Mayo great but outside of the county he'll never be heralded in the same way the other top scorers are."
Replying To TheBishop: "Cillain O'Connor had a poor 2nd half, barely got on the ball. People can defend him all they want but thats the truth, he's supposed to be Mayo's star forward so its not as if they weren't looking to get him on the ball.

When the game was nice an open in the first half he did well just like he did against Tipp, he's unable to engineer his won score when the game is tight like all great forwards are able to do. He's not in the top 10 forwards in the country."
Like in 2016 when they were a point down 5 minutes into injury time in the final and he went out to midfield, called for the ball, did a 1-2, then a shimmy and pinged it over from 50 yards to force a replay? Yeah can't engineer a score in a big game. You are right pal.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7003 - 22/02/2021 16:37:20 2332460



Gas man I see you ignored the reply when it was pointed out the score nearly 6 minutes into injury time he manufactured himself but you still try and come back with another altered post trying to knock the man. His scoring record from play in big games against big teams is excellent. You don't have to have him as an all time great, I don't care about that but the lads still trying to say he doesn't perform on the big days haven't a clue. And his record from play shows that. Go through the list of all the great players. Gooch, Murphy etc and look at their overall record in big games in Croker. How does it hold up? But they got over the line so the bad days are forgotten.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8401 - 25/02/2021 15:58:02    2332738

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I've never hidden my dislike of him on here, but it's ridiculous to say he's anything but one of the best scoring forwards in the game.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12370 - 25/02/2021 16:12:44    2332739

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I remember him kicking 2 points about 45 years out on each sideline to keep Mayo in division 1 a few years back v Cork down in the Pairc....they were in readable scores.

The comments above just prove my point that he will never be regarded as a great unless he wins a Celtic Cross...and that's fair enough. It's just a fact.

Conor McManus from Monaghan seems to be more lauded than COC though...he has never played in a senior final. One semi final final in think? Great player though...I think if Mayo had McManus alongside what we had in recent years we would have squeezed through in one of those finals.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11589 - 25/02/2021 17:57:34    2332754

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Replying To yew_tree:  "I remember him kicking 2 points about 45 years out on each sideline to keep Mayo in division 1 a few years back v Cork down in the Pairc....they were in readable scores.

The comments above just prove my point that he will never be regarded as a great unless he wins a Celtic Cross...and that's fair enough. It's just a fact.

Conor McManus from Monaghan seems to be more lauded than COC though...he has never played in a senior final. One semi final final in think? Great player though...I think if Mayo had McManus alongside what we had in recent years we would have squeezed through in one of those finals."
Absolutely Mayo would have won an All Ireland if McManus was alongside , possibly two
A class player.

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2842 - 25/02/2021 18:24:39    2332757

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Imagine this place if he had won!

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4517 - 25/02/2021 19:25:53    2332758

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Conor McManus from Monaghan seems to be more lauded than COC though...he has never played in a senior final. One semi final final in think? Great player though...I think if Mayo had McManus alongside what we had in recent years we would have squeezed through in one of those finals.

Aye , and not a bit a dirt about him either.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 25/02/2021 20:06:08    2332760

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The posts on here about players stepping up in All Ireland Finals got me thinking ....so out of Covid boredom I looked up the last 10 years finals ( and replays ) to get players totals and the results were a shock....

I had the impression that C.O Connor didn't amass a big total ( seems most posters did as well )

Open to correction but Very surprisingly it seems he is neck and neck with Dean Rock ...

Dean Rock 46 points ( inc. 1 goal + 35 frees )
C. O Connor 45 points ( 36 frees )

After that it's a mixture of
B. Brogan 2 - 12 ( 7 frees )
Con O Callaghan 3-6
C. Kilkenny 0- 11
Sean O Se 0-15 ( 10 frees )
Paul Geaney 1-08
M.Murphy 1-08
A. Moran 1- 08
L. Keegan 2- 03...

Black+Blue (Galway) - Posts: 134 - 25/02/2021 20:15:34    2332761

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Replying To catch22:  "Conor McManus from Monaghan seems to be more lauded than COC though...he has never played in a senior final. One semi final final in think? Great player though...I think if Mayo had McManus alongside what we had in recent years we would have squeezed through in one of those finals.

Aye , and not a bit a dirt about him either."
I won't say Cillian is a clean player although last year I didn't think he was at much off the ball stuff. Mayo were laughed at for years for being too nice and not having players who play on the edge. Anyway my point is Cillian is a scoring machine weather you like him or not personally is besides the point. He is not the reason Mayo haven't won an All Ireland yet...if he had a little more help who knows.

He is still only 28 so a few years left in him too.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11589 - 25/02/2021 21:23:01    2332764

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