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100 per cent. He missed a couple of frees in finals so he is a bottler. Even if he kept them in the game and scored 2 or 3 from play. Like in 16 and then the score he got to force a replay. But yet he hides in big games. There is no pleasing some people.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7908 - 22/02/2021 16:44:03 2332463 Link 10 |
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Yeah, but what's life about?" he asks in reply. "Life is about finding a purpose. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what medals I have or what All Stars or accolades I picked up along the way. Like, no one cares about that. They care about how you make them feel, what you've given back to people. Yes, that injury was really tough but I think meaning and purpose above and beyond football have increased because of it. tommy132 (Mayo) - Posts: 603 - 23/02/2021 15:01:37 2332540 Link 3 |
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That is a nice way to be able to look at your experience. If you can be happy in life , that is the best you can hope for. It's not always possible to see the wood for the trees. As a sportsperson it is only natural to want to win and that will bring satisfaction undoubtedly but not necessarily happiness in your personal life. This is probably the more sound foundation as it is what leads you to performing better in everything else you do and being a better role model to others. There would have to be an element of regret involved also though I think for anyone who has played the game at the highest level and just come up short but it is a lot easier to cope with that regret if you are happy outside of your chosen sport and have the support of good people to help you.It sounds like Tom Parsons is fortunate in that department. Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 23/02/2021 15:38:05 2332544 Link 2 |
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It's a pretty poor reflection on the rest of the country then that a forward not in the top 10 can be the all time leading point scorer....
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11241 - 23/02/2021 16:46:46 2332547 Link 10 |
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Might be close to top goal scorer too, he has 30, and he definitely claimed the biggest haul in a single championship game from the Tipp semi. I think what Bishop says about him underlines that Cillian just isn't for everyone but like some other posters pointed out, his lack of popularity with rivals is hardly an insult really. Hopefully his 2020 fitness holds up going forward and we get a championship this year.
Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 23/02/2021 18:10:51 2332556 Link 0 |
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What is it that coc does anyway, that gets people so riled up? Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1732 - 23/02/2021 19:55:19 2332565 Link 3 |
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He broke the all time goal record in the game against tipp.
Sssthe (Mayo) - Posts: 57 - 23/02/2021 21:20:12 2332573 Link 0 |
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The first game against kerry in 2014 was one of his best games especially the second half. In it mayo were losing and down to 14 men at half time.
Sssthe (Mayo) - Posts: 57 - 23/02/2021 21:24:08 2332576 Link 0 |
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With certain players, forwards especially when putting inferior opposition to the sword they shine. But when you have to dig deep and use everything to overcome impossible odds and you do it consistently thats the difference. He is stylish, elegant, lovely to watch, but not a team player. For POTY you got to have pretty much everything, and yeah being a POTY on Dublin some might say is easier, but some might say its the reason they are so good. But probably splitting hairs between players to be fair. POTY and All-stars are a joke anyway.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 23/02/2021 21:34:21 2332580 Link 1 |
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But why are the dublin lads splitting their vote between the two dublin players, as opposed to just voting for the better one of the two for that season? What are they gaining by doing that? It makes no sense. Surely they just vote for the guy who had the better season, the same as everyone else does? You might get the mayo lads voting for their player, but then no dublin vote is going to the mayo player either so one cancels the other out on that front. I think this was just a case of sour grapes in the years dublin payers didnt get the award. But this year proves that this auld sob story is not of the relevance that people wanted it to have in the past. You might have an argument if oconnor was miles back in the running, but he was well in it. Either it stops people winning it or it doesnt, you cant have it both ways. HardCase (USA) - Posts: 64 - 23/02/2021 21:39:33 2332581 Link 3 |
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Don't think it's anything personal or unique to Cillian O' Connor. I think oppoaition fans will always "dislike" a player who has an "edge" to him especially if he is a top talent. Elite sport is unforgiving, and his scoring stats are superb and he has been instrumental in bringing Mayo to finals. But in 2016 replay and in 2017 he did miss clutch kicks late on, points which if he had scored might have changed Sam's address. This is the harsh reality of elite sport. Ray Cosgrove scored 6-23 in 2002 championship, is that the embedded memory we have of him or is it the late free he missed against Armagh to earn Dublin a replay? Cosgrove never got the chance to change that legacy, Cillian O'Connor's legacy is not yet written.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 686 - 23/02/2021 22:02:57 2332586 Link 3 |
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I thought Cosgrove played on for dublin until 07/08?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 24/02/2021 07:51:30 2332593 Link 1 |
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I think its because he is forever tying to influence referees and officials, even where he's not involved with the situation also has a bit of an edge to him. These attributes go a long way in getting rival supporters on his back and on the other hand make him a cult hero in mayo(along with his ability to score).
Monkeycatcher (Meath) - Posts: 155 - 24/02/2021 09:17:41 2332598 Link 1 |
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I should have made my point clearer i.e he never got the chance with Dublin to eclipse that miss by converting in a similar high stakes situation.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 686 - 24/02/2021 09:59:58 2332608 Link 0 |
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But so much of a guys performance is down to his team and their opposition. In truth, dean rock has missed some very kickeable frees in all ireland finals - far more simple scores than the ones oconnor has missed. But his team won, so it isnt deemed a 'clutch moment'. But is that anything to do with the missed kicks themselves? Not really. Similarly, people argue he wasnt in the final in the second half. But his team couldnt win possession against a superior outfit and he went back the field to help. So is he not really in the game or is the guy making the judgement, maybe not very good at analysing the game? Id say the latter. Similarly, if cluxton played for leitrim, would he be deemed as good? I would argue no, because his kickout can be just as accurate, but if the opposition have fenton, mccarthy, howard, kilkenny and the likes dotted across the pitch, his teammates are simply going to be beaten to the ball on more occasions. If you lose they are deemed 'clutch plays', but his actual kicks could have been just as good as the ones he does for dublin. This 'clutch' stuff is added after the fact, when we know what happens next and how the thing finishes, but it isnt actually known at the time. Why is a missed free in an all ireland final any more a clutch moment if you subsequently win or lose? And why is it any more 'clutch' than one in the semi final, which if it was missed would have the same end result? I just see that clutch stuff as media driven guff personally. People lap it up, but it is quite flawed. What I have noticed here is, you started out trying to answer why people dislike him, and then spun off into some tale about missing frees. So you dislike him because he has missed a free? Do you dislike all freetakers? HardCase (USA) - Posts: 64 - 24/02/2021 10:06:41 2332609 Link 1 |
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I don't dislike him at all, nor do I agree that a player 's legacy can be so defined by singular moments in their career. Nowhere in my post do I say I agree that a player's career can be so narrowly defined. So maybe if you read it again you might be able to understand that what I am saying is O'Connor is not unique in being judged this way, and I just mentioned Cosgrove as another example. However I don't agree that it is just media driven, a lot of quality players have been castigated by fans even from their own counties for "significant" errors. And as for your last point of course if the error has no bearing on a result it is forgotten, goes without saying.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 686 - 24/02/2021 10:48:38 2332611 Link 1 |
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Why is he not a team player?
MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 420 - 24/02/2021 10:53:16 2332613 Link 1 |
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Ah fair enough, I was thinking back to our semifinal with dublin in 07 and he came on in the second half and had a decent goal chance but drove it badly wide where as a point would have brought ye closer to us but fair play to him he went for the kill as any good forward should.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 24/02/2021 11:10:21 2332615 Link 1 |
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"He is stylish, elegant, lovely to watch, but not a team player." I'd actually have the opposite view...Cillian is not the most elegant or stylish forward..he is not blessed with pace and his kicking style is almost robotic but very effective. Is is not a greedy player though. yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11241 - 24/02/2021 11:15:45 2332616 Link 9 |
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Yes Ray Cosgrove is unlucky and is often remembered for "That free". I used to take frees myself years ago and i probably would nt like to have to take an equalising free at the end of a match.On the other side people say what about Cluxtons free in 2011 or Rocks v Mayo and say they had so much bottle.I would argue the opposite.its a free shot.Score you re a hero .Miss and you re still in the game.As a child people grow up dreaming of taking a winning free in a final.Not too many dream of taking an equalising free.There is little or no pressure on a player when teams are level.The real pressure is when your behind and the last kick is to equalise.Alas that did nt work out for Cillian or Ray Cosgrove but they showed the bottle to take it so fair play,
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3680 - 24/02/2021 13:21:59 2332626 Link 1 |