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Croke park will be underwater before they would touch the hill.
There is a double train line right behind it and is landlocked by a significant number or properties, before you would even consider the other residents left and the significant objections like last time!
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 25/01/2021 20:56:58
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I think Bord pleanáilte gave planning permission around 03 to demolish Hill but it did nt happen. The railway was to remain in place with the stand being built over it. I'm not sure the reason why it did nt happen. I would nt be surprised to see it happen but not for a while. I hear than seating is going to be put in the Hill this year but it might be temporary ré the covid. I'm not sure really. The stand going all the way around Croke Park would look great but it would take away part of our history.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3673 - 25/01/2021 22:48:34
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Replying To TheUsername: "Croke park will be underwater before they would touch the hill.
There is a double train line right behind it and is landlocked by a significant number or properties, before you would even consider the other residents left and the significant objections like last time!" There is a tail lime at the Davin end. Rail lines can be built over. I understand the properties argument...who is to say in future they won't be bought up by the GAA I order to facilitate a new stand?
I'm just playing devils advocate here....in the medium to long term we will see a very different stadium just like it's unrecognisable from the 1990s.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 25/01/2021 23:05:50
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Sorry I misread the article. John Horan said they might put seats in the Hill for social distancing purposes but that was when they thought a couple of thousand fans might be left in. That was last summer. Did nt see the date on the article till after. Sorry for the confusion.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3673 - 26/01/2021 08:35:52
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Replying To yew_tree: "There is a tail lime at the Davin end. Rail lines can be built over. I understand the properties argument...who is to say in future they won't be bought up by the GAA I order to facilitate a new stand?
I'm just playing devils advocate here....in the medium to long term we will see a very different stadium just like it's unrecognisable from the 1990s." I dont know that much about stadium building to be honest or how problematic it would be to build over the train line etc, it was done in Landsowne and New Aviva and i suppose it could also be a feature of the ground with a stop there. The line is quite significant as its a main artery for part of the Northside shadowing the liffey, North Kildare all the way to Portloaise, maybe its no big deal. I do think the restriction of the footprint of the properties of buying them would add significant cost, you wont be getting much change for 500k+ for properties in and around Clonliffe and in the typical Irish way you could see a few holding out if it meant more money, to facilitate a "bigger scheme" project that required huge purchases of properties to improve the footprint. The local residents i know and maybe understandably, often have had and likely would have strong feeling on the stadium and the impact on their properties.
I suppose all not impossible but i dont see it being a priority for the GAA nor without its problems myself, but im just speculating, my first reaction would be its not a straight forward construction project without its obstacles and then for what worth.
There is some space for facilities behind the hill, the old handball alley is there - im not sure if that has been sold on or whatever at this point or what the plan are there. But it was a great haunt for Dubs fans before and after games, im sure other fans to on non Dub days, maybe you could look at that site for maybe i dont know bars, corporate facilities or what ever.
Id like to see the hill stay as terrace myself, but then Dubs have an infinity with it so we are likely biased, on match days in the heat of it it has its own energy and makes a soul in the ground, one of the great sights in GAA, it could defo do with a lick and upgrade of facilities tough.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 26/01/2021 10:16:58
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Replying To TheUsername: "I dont know that much about stadium building to be honest or how problematic it would be to build over the train line etc, it was done in Landsowne and New Aviva and i suppose it could also be a feature of the ground with a stop there. The line is quite significant as its a main artery for part of the Northside shadowing the liffey, North Kildare all the way to Portloaise, maybe its no big deal. I do think the restriction of the footprint of the properties of buying them would add significant cost, you wont be getting much change for 500k+ for properties in and around Clonliffe and in the typical Irish way you could see a few holding out if it meant more money, to facilitate a "bigger scheme" project that required huge purchases of properties to improve the footprint. The local residents i know and maybe understandably, often have had and likely would have strong feeling on the stadium and the impact on their properties.
I suppose all not impossible but i dont see it being a priority for the GAA nor without its problems myself, but im just speculating, my first reaction would be its not a straight forward construction project without its obstacles and then for what worth.
There is some space for facilities behind the hill, the old handball alley is there - im not sure if that has been sold on or whatever at this point or what the plan are there. But it was a great haunt for Dubs fans before and after games, im sure other fans to on non Dub days, maybe you could look at that site for maybe i dont know bars, corporate facilities or what ever.
Id like to see the hill stay as terrace myself, but then Dubs have an infinity with it so we are likely biased, on match days in the heat of it it has its own energy and makes a soul in the ground, one of the great sights in GAA, it could defo do with a lick and upgrade of facilities tough." Yes it's an awkward one. In one way if like to keep the Hill and in another the stadium would look fab going the whole way around. If you ré in the Hill looking out the stadium looks great. When you ré in the other stands the Hill looks. When Americans or English people go to Croker it looks silly to them. As one said to me it's like the gaa ran out of money and left the corner alone. I see their point but for history and nostalgia I would like the Hill to be kept as is.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3673 - 26/01/2021 11:01:45
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Tone deaf timing from the GAA but that isn't new.
Watch match ticket prices increase when one is allowed back into a stadium.
republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 375 - 26/01/2021 12:03:58
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Replying To TheUsername: "I dont know that much about stadium building to be honest or how problematic it would be to build over the train line etc, it was done in Landsowne and New Aviva and i suppose it could also be a feature of the ground with a stop there. The line is quite significant as its a main artery for part of the Northside shadowing the liffey, North Kildare all the way to Portloaise, maybe its no big deal. I do think the restriction of the footprint of the properties of buying them would add significant cost, you wont be getting much change for 500k+ for properties in and around Clonliffe and in the typical Irish way you could see a few holding out if it meant more money, to facilitate a "bigger scheme" project that required huge purchases of properties to improve the footprint. The local residents i know and maybe understandably, often have had and likely would have strong feeling on the stadium and the impact on their properties.
I suppose all not impossible but i dont see it being a priority for the GAA nor without its problems myself, but im just speculating, my first reaction would be its not a straight forward construction project without its obstacles and then for what worth.
There is some space for facilities behind the hill, the old handball alley is there - im not sure if that has been sold on or whatever at this point or what the plan are there. But it was a great haunt for Dubs fans before and after games, im sure other fans to on non Dub days, maybe you could look at that site for maybe i dont know bars, corporate facilities or what ever.
Id like to see the hill stay as terrace myself, but then Dubs have an infinity with it so we are likely biased, on match days in the heat of it it has its own energy and makes a soul in the ground, one of the great sights in GAA, it could defo do with a lick and upgrade of facilities tough." The way the lines and the stadium might be different in aviva/lansdowne to croke park so not near enough space for entry/egress to allow putting in a stand like the rest of the stadium
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3495 - 26/01/2021 12:30:12
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Replying To republicofcloone: "Tone deaf timing from the GAA but that isn't new.
Watch match ticket prices increase when one is allowed back into a stadium." Hate to break up the GAA bashing but on their website there's an
article saying there's no plans to develop the stadium.
https://www.gaa.ie/news/no-plans-to-proceed-with-expansion-of-cusack-stand/
carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 26/01/2021 12:55:22
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Yes it's an awkward one. In one way if like to keep the Hill and in another the stadium would look fab going the whole way around. If you ré in the Hill looking out the stadium looks great. When you ré in the other stands the Hill looks. When Americans or English people go to Croker it looks silly to them. As one said to me it's like the gaa ran out of money and left the corner alone. I see their point but for history and nostalgia I would like the Hill to be kept as is." It would probably look impressive if there was a continuation of the stadium Mick, but id worry it would just become another lifeless bowl in my opinion. I don't think Croke Park need the additional capacity, its hardly ever full as it is.
The Hogan and Cusack, are alright but nothing like the atmosphere on the hill and all a bit civilized for the kids, with day trippers and tourists, not saying that's a bad thing at all, just saying really. The Canal end is brutal for atmosphere and watching the match in my opinion. Id hate to the hill go the way the Canal end went personally.
I think they should keep the Hill as a terrace, but look at the whole end. Redevelop both the Hill and the Nally in to one massive terrace with none of the barriers and improve facilities make it less steep by building out and improve access and amenities. Though that might be difficult with the existing footprint.
I haven't been to the new PUC yet, but the massive terrace behind one of the goals would be the type of thing id be thinking for the HIll maybe on a bigger scale, would be some sight and craic.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 26/01/2021 13:06:33
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Replying To TheUsername: "It would probably look impressive if there was a continuation of the stadium Mick, but id worry it would just become another lifeless bowl in my opinion. I don't think Croke Park need the additional capacity, its hardly ever full as it is.
The Hogan and Cusack, are alright but nothing like the atmosphere on the hill and all a bit civilized for the kids, with day trippers and tourists, not saying that's a bad thing at all, just saying really. The Canal end is brutal for atmosphere and watching the match in my opinion. Id hate to the hill go the way the Canal end went personally.
I think they should keep the Hill as a terrace, but look at the whole end. Redevelop both the Hill and the Nally in to one massive terrace with none of the barriers and improve facilities make it less steep by building out and improve access and amenities. Though that might be difficult with the existing footprint.
I haven't been to the new PUC yet, but the massive terrace behind one of the goals would be the type of thing id be thinking for the HIll maybe on a bigger scale, would be some sight and craic." Well tbh I have been to the Hill in years for a Dublin game and have nt been there alot really at all. I enjoy the atmosphere all over Croker I must say bar maybe the corporate(alho only there once) Even the premium not bad. I mean when stadium is full and two big teams playing its a great buzz anyway but yes I like the Hill the way it is.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3673 - 26/01/2021 15:39:42
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Replying To TheUsername: "It would probably look impressive if there was a continuation of the stadium Mick, but id worry it would just become another lifeless bowl in my opinion. I don't think Croke Park need the additional capacity, its hardly ever full as it is.
The Hogan and Cusack, are alright but nothing like the atmosphere on the hill and all a bit civilized for the kids, with day trippers and tourists, not saying that's a bad thing at all, just saying really. The Canal end is brutal for atmosphere and watching the match in my opinion. Id hate to the hill go the way the Canal end went personally.
I think they should keep the Hill as a terrace, but look at the whole end. Redevelop both the Hill and the Nally in to one massive terrace with none of the barriers and improve facilities make it less steep by building out and improve access and amenities. Though that might be difficult with the existing footprint.
I haven't been to the new PUC yet, but the massive terrace behind one of the goals would be the type of thing id be thinking for the HIll maybe on a bigger scale, would be some sight and craic." The new PUC is a class stadium with plenty of leg room also. The old stadium was vert tight The two times I was in the new stadium iit was nt full so hard to gauge the real atmosphere but def worth a visit.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3673 - 26/01/2021 16:25:56
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Replying To TheUsername: "I dont know that much about stadium building to be honest or how problematic it would be to build over the train line etc, it was done in Landsowne and New Aviva and i suppose it could also be a feature of the ground with a stop there. The line is quite significant as its a main artery for part of the Northside shadowing the liffey, North Kildare all the way to Portloaise, maybe its no big deal. I do think the restriction of the footprint of the properties of buying them would add significant cost, you wont be getting much change for 500k+ for properties in and around Clonliffe and in the typical Irish way you could see a few holding out if it meant more money, to facilitate a "bigger scheme" project that required huge purchases of properties to improve the footprint. The local residents i know and maybe understandably, often have had and likely would have strong feeling on the stadium and the impact on their properties.
I suppose all not impossible but i dont see it being a priority for the GAA nor without its problems myself, but im just speculating, my first reaction would be its not a straight forward construction project without its obstacles and then for what worth.
There is some space for facilities behind the hill, the old handball alley is there - im not sure if that has been sold on or whatever at this point or what the plan are there. But it was a great haunt for Dubs fans before and after games, im sure other fans to on non Dub days, maybe you could look at that site for maybe i dont know bars, corporate facilities or what ever.
Id like to see the hill stay as terrace myself, but then Dubs have an infinity with it so we are likely biased, on match days in the heat of it it has its own energy and makes a soul in the ground, one of the great sights in GAA, it could defo do with a lick and upgrade of facilities tough." I'd like to see the hill stay terrace but that does not mean it can't be roofed or standing incorporated into a stand.
For example could the lower Davin be brought back as a standing terrace? I think it should of possible and would create better atmosphere and cheaper tickets.
I know dubs complained about Mayo fans getting 50% of Hill tickets for finals and using them. I got an earful from one lad myself in 2013 saying I didn't belong there and was standing in his spot ;)
The fact is they are cheap tickets and will attract the youth. Make the Davin standing and it's problem solved.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 26/01/2021 19:24:28
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Replying To yew_tree: "I'd like to see the hill stay terrace but that does not mean it can't be roofed or standing incorporated into a stand.
For example could the lower Davin be brought back as a standing terrace? I think it should of possible and would create better atmosphere and cheaper tickets.
I know dubs complained about Mayo fans getting 50% of Hill tickets for finals and using them. I got an earful from one lad myself in 2013 saying I didn't belong there and was standing in his spot ;)
The fact is they are cheap tickets and will attract the youth. Make the Davin standing and it's problem solved." Do you really think the gaa are going to pump 71 million into Croke Park and then make tickets cheaper for the punters?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 26/01/2021 22:16:24
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Replying To yew_tree: "I'd like to see the hill stay terrace but that does not mean it can't be roofed or standing incorporated into a stand.
For example could the lower Davin be brought back as a standing terrace? I think it should of possible and would create better atmosphere and cheaper tickets.
I know dubs complained about Mayo fans getting 50% of Hill tickets for finals and using them. I got an earful from one lad myself in 2013 saying I didn't belong there and was standing in his spot ;)
The fact is they are cheap tickets and will attract the youth. Make the Davin standing and it's problem solved." We'd all have different opinions on design, personally I wouldn't like it seen an amalgamated hill with a seated upper tier or roofed, I've got frozen, drowned, blown around and baked in glorious sunshine, I wouldn't have missed any of it, but that is a personal preference. I'd like a redeveloped open super Hill, with the Nally and Hill amalgamated to one big massive super terrace, just like the one tier like PUC, but bigger.
I know where your coming, I'd be lying if I haven't seen some our own give it the big I am about the hill and the Dublin only messing, not all of course but a minority, it's sad to see grown men who should know better go on like that, gargle only makes it worse, I hate it and let's say have intervened on more then one occasion., especially picking on youngsters or women.
On the other hand you can get lads from the country mostly youngsters rotten with drink up for the day who can loose the run of themselves and are lucky to get out alive to, I'm sure they are in the minority to, but both things happen.
But I think the onus is on us, it's our county and I think we have responsibility to be gracious hosts, I honestly get that where ever I go with Dublin (bar the odd exit) and we should model that when people come to Croker, I think the majority of real Dublin GAA people do.
In all honesty I'd hate to see segregation, I met some lovely, knowledgeable people at games and to be honest I prefer being in and around a mix then all with your own. I'd hate to see two ends, country and Dubs. Not saying there aren't issues, just takes away from values of the GAA for me. Probably more then half my pals are from the big expanse the far side of Lucan and had brilliant days out, imagine we both felt we had to be at different ends. Nah. The
On the practical level, I'm not sure we need to increase capacity in Croker with a second terrace. The Dubs will fill the Hill or close most games, but you often see it not even open in back door and quarter finals with other counties, not sure it would be more use then just an increase in cheaper tickets for a semi or a final and I can't really see the GAA doing that really.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 26/01/2021 22:31:37
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Replying To yew_tree: "I'd like to see the hill stay terrace but that does not mean it can't be roofed or standing incorporated into a stand.
For example could the lower Davin be brought back as a standing terrace? I think it should of possible and would create better atmosphere and cheaper tickets.
I know dubs complained about Mayo fans getting 50% of Hill tickets for finals and using them. I got an earful from one lad myself in 2013 saying I didn't belong there and was standing in his spot ;)
The fact is they are cheap tickets and will attract the youth. Make the Davin standing and it's problem solved." Dont see why or should it?
Cost of it.
How would you deal with intersection where seats start and dubs complaining about mayo fans getting hill tickets for finals and using them should be told where to go...
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3495 - 26/01/2021 22:53:51
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Replying To TheUsername: "We'd all have different opinions on design, personally I wouldn't like it seen an amalgamated hill with a seated upper tier or roofed, I've got frozen, drowned, blown around and baked in glorious sunshine, I wouldn't have missed any of it, but that is a personal preference. I'd like a redeveloped open super Hill, with the Nally and Hill amalgamated to one big massive super terrace, just like the one tier like PUC, but bigger.
I know where your coming, I'd be lying if I haven't seen some our own give it the big I am about the hill and the Dublin only messing, not all of course but a minority, it's sad to see grown men who should know better go on like that, gargle only makes it worse, I hate it and let's say have intervened on more then one occasion., especially picking on youngsters or women.
On the other hand you can get lads from the country mostly youngsters rotten with drink up for the day who can loose the run of themselves and are lucky to get out alive to, I'm sure they are in the minority to, but both things happen.
But I think the onus is on us, it's our county and I think we have responsibility to be gracious hosts, I honestly get that where ever I go with Dublin (bar the odd exit) and we should model that when people come to Croker, I think the majority of real Dublin GAA people do.
In all honesty I'd hate to see segregation, I met some lovely, knowledgeable people at games and to be honest I prefer being in and around a mix then all with your own. I'd hate to see two ends, country and Dubs. Not saying there aren't issues, just takes away from values of the GAA for me. Probably more then half my pals are from the big expanse the far side of Lucan and had brilliant days out, imagine we both felt we had to be at different ends. Nah. The
On the practical level, I'm not sure we need to increase capacity in Croker with a second terrace. The Dubs will fill the Hill or close most games, but you often see it not even open in back door and quarter finals with other counties, not sure it would be more use then just an increase in cheaper tickets for a semi or a final and I can't really see the GAA doing that really." I'm not suggesting segregation and never would. But if you look back at all Ireland's pre development one count was given one end and the other the county the other.
On 1997, Mayo has the Hill and Kerry at the then Canal End. Anyway of course the GAA aren't going to make a second terrace with cheaper tickets. I'm just spitballing here.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 27/01/2021 12:43:38
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "I think Bord pleanáilte gave planning permission around 03 to demolish Hill but it did nt happen. The railway was to remain in place with the stand being built over it. I'm not sure the reason why it did nt happen. I would nt be surprised to see it happen but not for a while. I hear than seating is going to be put in the Hill this year but it might be temporary ré the covid. I'm not sure really. The stand going all the way around Croke Park would look great but it would take away part of our history." Have to disagree CiarraiMick, we can't be prisoners of history, otherwise we would never be able to move on. I would love to see Croke Park as one completed bowl, and while it is still a magnificent stadium, it would be truly world class were we to get rid of Hill 16. In saying that, you look at what they did with the Aviva, and the Northern end of the stadium which is the single tier section, is nothing short of awful, it literally ruins what is a fine stadium otherwise. I realise that was done to allay the concerns of local residents, but we really are not very good at completing stadiums in this country!!
gilly1910 (Galway) - Posts: 170 - 28/01/2021 16:24:01
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Replying To yew_tree: "I'd like to see the hill stay terrace but that does not mean it can't be roofed or standing incorporated into a stand.
For example could the lower Davin be brought back as a standing terrace? I think it should of possible and would create better atmosphere and cheaper tickets.
I know dubs complained about Mayo fans getting 50% of Hill tickets for finals and using them. I got an earful from one lad myself in 2013 saying I didn't belong there and was standing in his spot ;)
The fact is they are cheap tickets and will attract the youth. Make the Davin standing and it's problem solved." Yeah I agree,maybe I'm showing my age but I remember when the hill was mainly Dubs and the canal was mainly Meath (there was a few dubs on the canal as well) but the atmosphere was electric both sets of fans singing and chanting at each other great days.I think it has alot to do with price I cant for the life of me understand why they dont have cheaper tickets bigger crowd, better atmosphere and sounds and looks good on TV going all around the world, get more people and kids going to games and hooked on the game.I know they will say they need the money but I've been in croke park many times with say 30 odd thousand and it's dead the atmosphere,cheaper tickets and you might get another 20 odd thousand maybe more would make some difference.i understand other posters saying they like sitting beside lads/ladies from other counties and I do as well but if you had the hill for the Dubs and the canal end for other team and rest of the stadium mixed I think it would create a much better atmosphere.
Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 254 - 28/01/2021 19:06:37
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Replying To Proudroyal: "Yeah I agree,maybe I'm showing my age but I remember when the hill was mainly Dubs and the canal was mainly Meath (there was a few dubs on the canal as well) but the atmosphere was electric both sets of fans singing and chanting at each other great days.I think it has alot to do with price I cant for the life of me understand why they dont have cheaper tickets bigger crowd, better atmosphere and sounds and looks good on TV going all around the world, get more people and kids going to games and hooked on the game.I know they will say they need the money but I've been in croke park many times with say 30 odd thousand and it's dead the atmosphere,cheaper tickets and you might get another 20 odd thousand maybe more would make some difference.i understand other posters saying they like sitting beside lads/ladies from other counties and I do as well but if you had the hill for the Dubs and the canal end for other team and rest of the stadium mixed I think it would create a much better atmosphere." How much cheaper would you make tickets.
Events are managed based on income and if you reduce cost of tickets you have to get a certain amount more in to make same amount of money. If you want more people to attend you need more staff to be working so all that is added up
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3495 - 28/01/2021 22:00:24
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