National Forum

Training During Lockdown

(Oldest Posts First)

There were reports this week that Cork and Down footballers, and an unnamed Leinster county having been doing collective training. I've also heard rumours that a senior inter-county hurling squad has been training consistently over the Christmas period. What are your thoughts on this? Should sanctions be imposed on these counties? If they should, what would a fair sanction be? On the other hand, should county squads be allowed train away as normal, just like elite rugby and soccer squads can do at the moment?

football first (None) - Posts: 1235 - 08/01/2021 10:55:54    2326597

Link

If county squads are currently training then they are not showing solidarity with the national effort to ensure our hospitals are not over run by the virus.
Instructions have been given from Tom Ryan and its vital that these are followed.
It's very easy for squad representatives to explain why such groups or pods and sessions are being or have been held.
But the big picture was never as serious... people are dying and our hospitals and their front line staff have never been under so much physical and emotional stress.
Any GAA team that adds to the prospect of further spreading the virus and or delaying the time until teams can get back to training should be sanctioned.
Sanctions should be a last resort...but being named should be enough...and the management of these squads should be named also if squads break the current guidelines.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1629 - 08/01/2021 11:22:42    2326602

Link

There were reports this week that Cork and Down footballers, and an unnamed Leinster county having been doing collective training. I've also heard rumours that a senior inter-county hurling squad has been training consistently over the Christmas period. What are your thoughts on this? Should sanctions be imposed on these counties? If they should, what would a fair sanction be? On the other hand, should county squads be allowed train away as normal, just like elite rugby and soccer squads can do at the moment?
football first (None) - Posts: 1202 - 08/01/2021 10:55:54
The elite rugby squads at least, not sure on soccer, are getting tested several times a week. Privately funded.
Who would be able to fund that testing for GAA players?
The inter county squads probably shouldnt be allowed train as so many players are working, travelling, having far more contacts than the pro players who can isolate more.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2523 - 08/01/2021 11:39:27    2326607

Link

Ah , sure them lads weren't really training and they were all working individually. Nothing to see here.
Move on lads, move on.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 08/01/2021 12:13:17    2326614

Link

It is not surprising to see teams training - I'm sure they are very sorry......sorry they got caught.
It's disgraceful really. The GAA has got lots of money and concessions to get going and it was important in the national interest that they could. I don't but the "elite" argument cause every sport has elite levels and many of these have had to stop and no competition at all. At end of the day, GAA Intercounty players go back into the workplace, homes, shops etc and they shouldn't be exposing others by not sticking to the rules.
And it's not ok to say The players/mgt want to do it and they taking precautions. There is clear and precise guidelines in place and rules from Croke Park. It's as clear as day that what Cork at wasn't even in line with public guidelines never mind what croke park had allowed even before last Tuesday.
But it sums up the way the GAA has gone in last 15/20 years - it's driven by ego maniac Intercounty managers facilitated by weak county boards. They pay no attention to Croke Park and have no respect for them as they will always be phone calls made and favours pulled in, swept under the carpet and move on - "if we don't do it, we get left behind". It's been the way with suspension and appeals going back years and crept into every Avenue of the game.
Inter county managers doing what they want, filling up backroom teams with paid hangers on, if they don't win they say they didn't get enough and want more. They've never respected an off season and trained when they want across club football and to hell with players. They game is no better now than it was in the 90s and early 00s when less resources where thrown at them.
I'd throw the book at these teams. Partly because it's a chance to get some control back and secondly cause these panels have shown absolute no respect to the people who are sacrificing so much - businesses, jobs, social life, education, family, weddings, funerals - at this moment and they still feel above everyone else. It's time this "sure everyone is doing it" attitude was parked and the GAA got it's house in order once and for all.

TheJackel (Monaghan) - Posts: 15 - 08/01/2021 12:28:03    2326618

Link

The Jackel has hit the nail on the head with their post above. It's disgraceful behaviour from these counties. They need to be made an example of, to put a stop to this kind of carry on. Things are as bad, if not worse, than the first peak of the virus and it's going to be a long time before vaccines return things to normal. Even the rugby professionals in Ireland, where players can potentially isolate more easily than GAA players, and are tested regularly, have had outbreaks of COVID. It's going to hit county set-ups soon with knock-on effects for their communities if they don't stop their nonsense and batten down the hatches like they (and us) have been told to.

TheBlackDeath (Cavan) - Posts: 60 - 08/01/2021 16:51:21    2326673

Link

Replying To carlowman:  "If county squads are currently training then they are not showing solidarity with the national effort to ensure our hospitals are not over run by the virus.
Instructions have been given from Tom Ryan and its vital that these are followed.
It's very easy for squad representatives to explain why such groups or pods and sessions are being or have been held.
But the big picture was never as serious... people are dying and our hospitals and their front line staff have never been under so much physical and emotional stress.
Any GAA team that adds to the prospect of further spreading the virus and or delaying the time until teams can get back to training should be sanctioned.
Sanctions should be a last resort...but being named should be enough...and the management of these squads should be named also if squads break the current guidelines."
The green thumbs says yours was a leading post for the rest to follow, but no poster said the hurling fraternity are free of guilt even though they are

Cuhullain (Kildare) - Posts: 237 - 08/01/2021 20:57:51    2326707

Link

Replying To TheJackel:  "It is not surprising to see teams training - I'm sure they are very sorry......sorry they got caught.
It's disgraceful really. The GAA has got lots of money and concessions to get going and it was important in the national interest that they could. I don't but the "elite" argument cause every sport has elite levels and many of these have had to stop and no competition at all. At end of the day, GAA Intercounty players go back into the workplace, homes, shops etc and they shouldn't be exposing others by not sticking to the rules.
And it's not ok to say The players/mgt want to do it and they taking precautions. There is clear and precise guidelines in place and rules from Croke Park. It's as clear as day that what Cork at wasn't even in line with public guidelines never mind what croke park had allowed even before last Tuesday.
But it sums up the way the GAA has gone in last 15/20 years - it's driven by ego maniac Intercounty managers facilitated by weak county boards. They pay no attention to Croke Park and have no respect for them as they will always be phone calls made and favours pulled in, swept under the carpet and move on - "if we don't do it, we get left behind". It's been the way with suspension and appeals going back years and crept into every Avenue of the game.
Inter county managers doing what they want, filling up backroom teams with paid hangers on, if they don't win they say they didn't get enough and want more. They've never respected an off season and trained when they want across club football and to hell with players. They game is no better now than it was in the 90s and early 00s when less resources where thrown at them.
I'd throw the book at these teams. Partly because it's a chance to get some control back and secondly cause these panels have shown absolute no respect to the people who are sacrificing so much - businesses, jobs, social life, education, family, weddings, funerals - at this moment and they still feel above everyone else. It's time this "sure everyone is doing it" attitude was parked and the GAA got it's house in order once and for all."
I would have to agree with everything you say particularly the second half of your post. Inter county managers are out of control and have too .much influence on how resources are spent and used. It drives me mad that county boards will gather gate reciepts from club championships and hand them over for the running of inter county players in to the ground. As you pointed out the games were every bit as entertaining 25 years ago as they are now with half the training, most of which is needless, if the last 5 months is anything to go by when there was no evident drop in standards

UtahBlaine (Galway) - Posts: 96 - 08/01/2021 21:14:20    2326711

Link

Replying To TheJackel:  "It is not surprising to see teams training - I'm sure they are very sorry......sorry they got caught.
It's disgraceful really. The GAA has got lots of money and concessions to get going and it was important in the national interest that they could. I don't but the "elite" argument cause every sport has elite levels and many of these have had to stop and no competition at all. At end of the day, GAA Intercounty players go back into the workplace, homes, shops etc and they shouldn't be exposing others by not sticking to the rules.
And it's not ok to say The players/mgt want to do it and they taking precautions. There is clear and precise guidelines in place and rules from Croke Park. It's as clear as day that what Cork at wasn't even in line with public guidelines never mind what croke park had allowed even before last Tuesday.
But it sums up the way the GAA has gone in last 15/20 years - it's driven by ego maniac Intercounty managers facilitated by weak county boards. They pay no attention to Croke Park and have no respect for them as they will always be phone calls made and favours pulled in, swept under the carpet and move on - "if we don't do it, we get left behind". It's been the way with suspension and appeals going back years and crept into every Avenue of the game.
Inter county managers doing what they want, filling up backroom teams with paid hangers on, if they don't win they say they didn't get enough and want more. They've never respected an off season and trained when they want across club football and to hell with players. They game is no better now than it was in the 90s and early 00s when less resources where thrown at them.
I'd throw the book at these teams. Partly because it's a chance to get some control back and secondly cause these panels have shown absolute no respect to the people who are sacrificing so much - businesses, jobs, social life, education, family, weddings, funerals - at this moment and they still feel above everyone else. It's time this "sure everyone is doing it" attitude was parked and the GAA got it's house in order once and for all."
I would have to agree with everything you say particularly the second half of your post. Inter county managers are out of control and have too .much influence on how resources are spent and used. It drives me mad that county boards will gather gate reciepts from club championships and hand them over for the running of inter county players in to the ground. As you pointed out the games were every bit as entertaining 25 years ago as they are now with half the training, most of which is needless, if the last 5 months is anything to go by when there was no evident drop in standards

UtahBlaine (Galway) - Posts: 96 - 08/01/2021 21:21:46    2326713

Link

Replying To football first:  "There were reports this week that Cork and Down footballers, and an unnamed Leinster county having been doing collective training. I've also heard rumours that a senior inter-county hurling squad has been training consistently over the Christmas period. What are your thoughts on this? Should sanctions be imposed on these counties? If they should, what would a fair sanction be? On the other hand, should county squads be allowed train away as normal, just like elite rugby and soccer squads can do at the moment?"
It is wrong full stop,Especially with this pandemic in full flow.I recall a few years ago when a few teams broke the training ban or holidays or something like that the gaa took one or two counties to task but the bigger counties got off scott free.Wexford were one of the counties punished.This is not just breaking gaa guidelines but putting public health at risk.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2679 - 08/01/2021 22:14:06    2326729

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "It is wrong full stop,Especially with this pandemic in full flow.I recall a few years ago when a few teams broke the training ban or holidays or something like that the gaa took one or two counties to task but the bigger counties got off scott free.Wexford were one of the counties punished.This is not just breaking gaa guidelines but putting public health at risk."
Does it really matter what county or code it is ... to me, we should have learned after some clubs went way overboard in celebrating county club championship wins. Cavan being the obvious example.
Whether it's the so called top counties or not if they are in any form of training, then it's worse than shameful.
When you see the sctual covid numbers... when you see the terrible numbers of frontline heath care staff suffering from covid, and some panels are in a field or gym... come on these guys and managers need to cop on and stop.
The guidelines are for peoples safety. People are to all intents and purposes prisoners in their own homes and panels are meeting up and training !!!! No cop on whatsoever. No loyalty to those who are in the frontline either.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1629 - 09/01/2021 21:39:25    2326835

Link

Replying To carlowman:  "Does it really matter what county or code it is ... to me, we should have learned after some clubs went way overboard in celebrating county club championship wins. Cavan being the obvious example.
Whether it's the so called top counties or not if they are in any form of training, then it's worse than shameful.
When you see the sctual covid numbers... when you see the terrible numbers of frontline heath care staff suffering from covid, and some panels are in a field or gym... come on these guys and managers need to cop on and stop.
The guidelines are for peoples safety. People are to all intents and purposes prisoners in their own homes and panels are meeting up and training !!!! No cop on whatsoever. No loyalty to those who are in the frontline either."
Well said Carlow an and I actually agree with you. Im just saying that the gaa treat counties differently in cases like this. However this is beyond the gaa. This is irresponsible and shows no respect whatsoever.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2679 - 09/01/2021 22:45:10    2326840

Link

I'm not really aware of the process,, logistics behind managing this problem,, forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong,, but surely the decision to put infected people into nursing homes, hospitals and hospices is causing far more damage than an intercounty training session,yet this almost never gets called out.
The Connacht hotel announced to much fanfare back in March that it would offer its rooms to the hse to cater for the expected enormous upsurge in hospitalisations,, and ended up not being needed at all,, my local testing centre here in renmore rarely had anyone in it that I saw (drive past there every weekday),, assuming these services are still available why not use them?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 874 - 10/01/2021 01:22:26    2326847

Link

Replying To CiarraiMick:  "It is wrong full stop,Especially with this pandemic in full flow.I recall a few years ago when a few teams broke the training ban or holidays or something like that the gaa took one or two counties to task but the bigger counties got off scott free.Wexford were one of the counties punished.This is not just breaking gaa guidelines but putting public health at risk."
Yea dublin said they were on a hitorical tour and obviously got away with it.

gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 584 - 10/01/2021 08:54:22    2326855

Link

Replying To gahfan:  "Yea dublin said they were on a hitorical tour and obviously got away with it."
You can't hit Dublin with a home ground ban because they never play at their home ground!

republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 375 - 10/01/2021 14:06:49    2326876

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "I'm not really aware of the process,, logistics behind managing this problem,, forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong,, but surely the decision to put infected people into nursing homes, hospitals and hospices is causing far more damage than an intercounty training session,yet this almost never gets called out.
The Connacht hotel announced to much fanfare back in March that it would offer its rooms to the hse to cater for the expected enormous upsurge in hospitalisations,, and ended up not being needed at all,, my local testing centre here in renmore rarely had anyone in it that I saw (drive past there every weekday),, assuming these services are still available why not use them?"
The issue with nursing homes was stopped last March and while it was a disaster at the time, the current wave has nothing to do with it. I've no idea why you say it's never called out; it's the first thing out of most people's lips when they want to downplay the pandemic and blame the government.

You're right though in saying that you're unaware of the process of managing the problem. Your observations of your local test centre mean nothing considering we're currently running over 26'000 tests a day, with roughly 5500 positive cases on average a day for the last week, and hospitals and ICUs are filling up at an unsustainable speed. Now it does look like things are peaking soon with cases and hospitalisations hopefully starting to drop next week, but there's no way inter county training is acceptable until February at the earliest.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1460 - 10/01/2021 16:32:19    2326896

Link

Replying To CastleBravo:  "The issue with nursing homes was stopped last March and while it was a disaster at the time, the current wave has nothing to do with it. I've no idea why you say it's never called out; it's the first thing out of most people's lips when they want to downplay the pandemic and blame the government.

You're right though in saying that you're unaware of the process of managing the problem. Your observations of your local test centre mean nothing considering we're currently running over 26'000 tests a day, with roughly 5500 positive cases on average a day for the last week, and hospitals and ICUs are filling up at an unsustainable speed. Now it does look like things are peaking soon with cases and hospitalisations hopefully starting to drop next week, but there's no way inter county training is acceptable until February at the earliest."
Most of the criticism I hear is levelled at partying students,, sports people,, those who don't wear masks, yes the government has copped criticism but that's more down to their ad hoc handling of the situation on the whole,, half measures,, you can buy alcohol but not clothes etc. That kind of thing. I can't recall anyone being held to account for nursing home clusters,,
And you can't give out about people down playing the virus so long as they're being factual. The renmore gymnasium was commandeered and assigned as a testing centre,, I saw almost no one going in or out for about two months,, it was shut down in April and has since not reopened,, that's what has happened,,same with connacht hotel,, ended up being totally unused,, I've seen it with my own eyes.

And if I could ask you another statistic,, of those 5500 positive cases a day,, in terms of a percentage how many result in death?
Assuming it's extremely low,, wouldn't it be nice if just every now and again,, those trying to up play the situation reminded us of this?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 874 - 10/01/2021 17:44:53    2326902

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "Most of the criticism I hear is levelled at partying students,, sports people,, those who don't wear masks, yes the government has copped criticism but that's more down to their ad hoc handling of the situation on the whole,, half measures,, you can buy alcohol but not clothes etc. That kind of thing. I can't recall anyone being held to account for nursing home clusters,,
And you can't give out about people down playing the virus so long as they're being factual. The renmore gymnasium was commandeered and assigned as a testing centre,, I saw almost no one going in or out for about two months,, it was shut down in April and has since not reopened,, that's what has happened,,same with connacht hotel,, ended up being totally unused,, I've seen it with my own eyes.

And if I could ask you another statistic,, of those 5500 positive cases a day,, in terms of a percentage how many result in death?
Assuming it's extremely low,, wouldn't it be nice if just every now and again,, those trying to up play the situation reminded us of this?"
Parties and get togethers are blamed because, adding them all together they're the big spreaders of this wave of Covid. Nobody is catching Covid in December because of the movement of patients to nursing homes in march; it's a red herring people throw out to try and deflect responsibility from the public.

On the stats, yes it's true that the overall death rate is low. But for every death there will be 10 patients in ICU, and for every 10 in ICU there'll be 100 Covid patients in other areas of the hospital. These all eat up into our capacity to provide healthcare for everyone else. ICU beds are often used in normal times for patients to recover from major surgery. Without these beds, surgery is cancelled. Services like endoscopy/scans etc. are all cancelled because the nurses and staff are needed to treat the swell of patients in due to Covid. You can't measure the outcome solely in deaths when there's huge other costs throughout the health service due to Covid.

I know some people will say "Well just build more hospitals and get rid of restrictions" but no country has managed to use hospitals as their only line of defence. It'd be like playing a game of soccer with no outfield players and saying "it's fine, sure we have a goalkeeper". Contact tracing and the likes only goes so far, once the disease is allowed get rampant (like it is now) then we have to hit the breaker to stop it.

I know at this stage people have glazed over and I'm just pontificating. I'm as sick as anyone of lockdowns and the endless misery we're in, but this current outbreak is just so demoralising to see how selfish people are and how they still are scrambling for excuses to blame others despite all the evidence.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1460 - 10/01/2021 19:21:02    2326915

Link