National Forum

Question For Dubs

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "If Dublin was split into 2 or more teams I'd guess their hurlers won't win as many all Irelands anymore. Oh wait! They have nt won one in many years. Is anyone thinking of that. Look most people want Dublin beaten at this stage but people are going overboard with their views. Most agree the gaa were wrong. Super 8s wrong but splitting Dublin is also wrong. This should nt be about bringing Dublin down. It should be about bringing weaker counties up.Gaa should be using the money on the poor not the rich."
Ok. Let's put some meat on the bones of that theory then. Can you give a realistic strategy as to how even 10 counties could match dublin on a yearly basis?

You see the thing is, where was this attitude when so much money was pumped into dublin in the first place? Why was this the approach taken, when we know are told that, in fact, great volunteers is the formula for success?

As for seeing dublin beaten? What will that achieve? They are still there next year, with the same advantages and the same unfairness.

HardCase (USA) - Posts: 64 - 09/12/2020 19:17:42    2320816

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Replying To avonali:  "what staff? Give me. the facts. How many are in this staff? Have they more staff that , say, Kerry. I'm. talking about staff directly involved with the team. Not development officers etc."
Im talking about staff and structures that these lads have had access to throughout their development.

Are you suggesting when these lads turned 18 and eligible for adult football that they only started to develop then?

Are you suggesting that Dublin do not have access to better structures and supports than other counties?

Are you suggesting that the above is not a clear indication of better funding?

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4006 - 09/12/2020 20:02:24    2320833

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Replying To daytona11:  "Im talking about staff and structures that these lads have had access to throughout their development.

Are you suggesting when these lads turned 18 and eligible for adult football that they only started to develop then?

Are you suggesting that Dublin do not have access to better structures and supports than other counties?

Are you suggesting that the above is not a clear indication of better funding?"
They seem to be deluded. I can't figure out why gaa don't do something about this. In a few years there will be a huge dropout of players and huge fall off in attendances. People won't tolerate it. We aren't stupid. It's blatantly unfair that the powers that be favour one county over another and patronise the rest of us.

the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 09/12/2020 20:28:35    2320853

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Dublin are not the problem if you want to be honest about it. Dublin have put great structures in place and a great team that have won five All Ireland's in a row. Other teams have done the four in a row but fallen at the fifth hurdle.
That's galling to some but it had to be done some day and I'm glad it was Dublin that done it.
The real problem is the relatively small number of counties and players that are in with a serious chance of winning and this applies to Hurling also.
Dublin have raised the bar and just as with any other team that are constantly winning, most want to see them lose.
When they do that won't fix anything but it will make plenty happy for a little while. Then it'll be back to Kerry or Tyrone or Mayo and maybe one or two others but that's about it.

The GAA does need to invest more in the counties that are in need of help and address the structure of the competitions. Counties do need to be willing to embrace change, the GAA needs to be willing to change as the whole way in which the major competitions operate is skewed and always has been.
I don't for a minute though think that the correct thing to do is try to bring the standard that Dublin have set back down to the level of others in order to try and make things seem ok and please a few that aren't able to win what they were once used to.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 09/12/2020 20:36:35    2320858

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Replying To daytona11:  "Im talking about staff and structures that these lads have had access to throughout their development.

Are you suggesting when these lads turned 18 and eligible for adult football that they only started to develop then?

Are you suggesting that Dublin do not have access to better structures and supports than other counties?

Are you suggesting that the above is not a clear indication of better funding?"
I'm suggesting nothing. I'm asking you for facts and figures. Just enquiring.

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1832 - 09/12/2020 20:49:04    2320864

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Replying To tonguey:  "They seem to be deluded. I can't figure out why gaa don't do something about this. In a few years there will be a huge dropout of players and huge fall off in attendances. People won't tolerate it. We aren't stupid. It's blatantly unfair that the powers that be favour one county over another and patronise the rest of us."
Who are these 'they' you are referring to?

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1832 - 09/12/2020 20:49:36    2320865

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Replying To HardCase:  "In case you hadnt realised, that is one game a year - that they still won. In the same years, they beat those teams comfortably in any other meetings, a couple of them were hammerings. Fenton hasnt lost a game yet in championship football. Sorry but people arent foolish enough to believe that an odd close game makes the thing close in general. It is kind of insulting to people's intelligence, to be honest with you."
In case you hadnt realised ,that is not one game a year! Dublin didnt win in these years
Mayo took a few hammerings in the league but its accepted they didnt put to much into the League as there battles v Dublin in the championship proves , 3 1 point defeats to Dublin and a couple of draws
2015 - Kerry 0-15 1-10 Dublin
2017 - Kerry 0-13 0-13 Dublin
2017 - Kerry 0-20 1-16 Dublin
2019 - Kerry 1-18 2-14 Dublin
2020- Kerry 1-19 1-19 Dublin
Hardly an odd close game !!

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2823 - 09/12/2020 21:28:59    2320872

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Replying To avonali:  "Who are these 'they' you are referring to?"
Those who seem to think that all other counties have to do is "raise the bar" to Dublin's level. That is the exact problem. We can't coz we are NOT getting the same money Dublin got to put the structures that they have in place.

How many times does this have to be said?! Unless we get the same amount of money that Dublin get how can we meet that standard?!?! The pitch is not level. It's like comparing Man City with Leyton orient!!

the creeler (Cavan) - Posts: 512 - 09/12/2020 22:06:45    2320887

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Replying To tonguey:  "Those who seem to think that all other counties have to do is "raise the bar" to Dublin's level. That is the exact problem. We can't coz we are NOT getting the same money Dublin got to put the structures that they have in place.

How many times does this have to be said?! Unless we get the same amount of money that Dublin get how can we meet that standard?!?! The pitch is not level. It's like comparing Man City with Leyton orient!!"
It isnt even remotely like that.

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 757 - 09/12/2020 22:16:18    2320890

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Replying To superbluedub:  "In case you hadnt realised ,that is not one game a year! Dublin didnt win in these years
Mayo took a few hammerings in the league but its accepted they didnt put to much into the League as there battles v Dublin in the championship proves , 3 1 point defeats to Dublin and a couple of draws
2015 - Kerry 0-15 1-10 Dublin
2017 - Kerry 0-13 0-13 Dublin
2017 - Kerry 0-20 1-16 Dublin
2019 - Kerry 1-18 2-14 Dublin
2020- Kerry 1-19 1-19 Dublin
Hardly an odd close game !!"
Correct me if I'm wrong but..but.. didn't Dublin win the All Ireland in each of those years?? I seem to remember the so-called Drive for Five??

jimski (Kildare) - Posts: 379 - 09/12/2020 22:38:16    2320902

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Replying To Galway9801:  "If Dublin is split into 2/3/4,,, (if),,, from your experience living in the capital,, and attending games with other dubs, talking to them etc,,, would Dublin fans on the whole buy into the new reality and support their new "counties",, or would there be a drop off in interest,, kind of a "unified Dublin or nothing" situation.
If my county was split into 2 I'm not sure I'd be as emotionally invested in the new set up as the old one tbh."
In relation to your own county, I've always felt there is natural split there anyway. I've always gotten the feeling that Connemara is closer to ourselves here in Mayo (and I don't mean geographically) than it is to east Galway, particularly those areas near the Tipperary and Offaly borders that would never be considered the west of Ireland if they weren't in County Galway. You can see this in the divide between hurling and football areas too. The city seems like a place apart from both. Perhaps I'm completely off the mark and I have no problem with Galway people telling me that if that is the case, that's just the feeling I get.

the_walls (Mayo) - Posts: 493 - 09/12/2020 22:42:20    2320904

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "Dublin are not the problem if you want to be honest about it. Dublin have put great structures in place and a great team that have won five All Ireland's in a row. Other teams have done the four in a row but fallen at the fifth hurdle.
That's galling to some but it had to be done some day and I'm glad it was Dublin that done it.
The real problem is the relatively small number of counties and players that are in with a serious chance of winning and this applies to Hurling also.
Dublin have raised the bar and just as with any other team that are constantly winning, most want to see them lose.
When they do that won't fix anything but it will make plenty happy for a little while. Then it'll be back to Kerry or Tyrone or Mayo and maybe one or two others but that's about it.

The GAA does need to invest more in the counties that are in need of help and address the structure of the competitions. Counties do need to be willing to embrace change, the GAA needs to be willing to change as the whole way in which the major competitions operate is skewed and always has been.
I don't for a minute though think that the correct thing to do is try to bring the standard that Dublin have set back down to the level of others in order to try and make things seem ok and please a few that aren't able to win what they were once used to."
But there has always been a small number of counties in with a serious chance of winning.
When was that any different?

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2729 - 09/12/2020 22:47:02    2320906

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "Dublin are not the problem if you want to be honest about it. Dublin have put great structures in place and a great team that have won five All Ireland's in a row. Other teams have done the four in a row but fallen at the fifth hurdle.
That's galling to some but it had to be done some day and I'm glad it was Dublin that done it.
The real problem is the relatively small number of counties and players that are in with a serious chance of winning and this applies to Hurling also.
Dublin have raised the bar and just as with any other team that are constantly winning, most want to see them lose.
When they do that won't fix anything but it will make plenty happy for a little while. Then it'll be back to Kerry or Tyrone or Mayo and maybe one or two others but that's about it.

The GAA does need to invest more in the counties that are in need of help and address the structure of the competitions. Counties do need to be willing to embrace change, the GAA needs to be willing to change as the whole way in which the major competitions operate is skewed and always has been.
I don't for a minute though think that the correct thing to do is try to bring the standard that Dublin have set back down to the level of others in order to try and make things seem ok and please a few that aren't able to win what they were once used to."
A good start would be give the same money per playing member to each club in the country. Dublin clubs getting over 270 per playing member versus about 20 per playing player in other counties is simply unfair and needs to be addressed.

meath87889699 (Meath) - Posts: 41 - 09/12/2020 22:53:07    2320910

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Replying To tonguey:  "Those who seem to think that all other counties have to do is "raise the bar" to Dublin's level. That is the exact problem. We can't coz we are NOT getting the same money Dublin got to put the structures that they have in place.

How many times does this have to be said?! Unless we get the same amount of money that Dublin get how can we meet that standard?!?! The pitch is not level. It's like comparing Man City with Leyton orient!!"
Cavan game development of €183.000 for a population of 76K, = €2.36 per head of population.

Dublin Games development € 1.3million for a population € 1.34 million = 97 cent per head of population.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4273 - 09/12/2020 23:21:26    2320915

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Replying To jimski:  "Correct me if I'm wrong but..but.. didn't Dublin win the All Ireland in each of those years?? I seem to remember the so-called Drive for Five??"
Your correct as you already know ! the post was in reply to a poster saying There was only an odd close game between these teams and a fair few hammerings -:)

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2823 - 09/12/2020 23:45:05    2320923

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Firstly splitting Dublin is ridiculous.

The population has always been there but there has been changes which should be noted.

Dublin used to end at the county bounds but lets behonest large parts of Meath,Kildare are extensions of Dublin with young lads and girls identifying as Dubs rather than Meath or Kildare.

Kerry have thankfully no issue with finance but again should be noted that a lot of fund raising is done abroad for Currans for example. They also have significant more costs than Dublin when stadia upkeep and travel/accommodation is factored in.

This is not a Dublin problem it's a GAA problem.
You simply cant justify the money being provided to Dublin anymore.

You also cant have CP as a defacto home ground that's another advantage that is wrong.
Championship yes - League no.

Dublin are self sufficient and a well run organisation and fair play to them. They maximise their natural advantages and there financial attractiveness.

In 2007 the GAA felt the game was dying in Dublin.
In the 2000s you would regularly have 70k at Leinster championship games. Now you are lucky to get half of that.

The GAA created this imbalance and the evidence is infront of our eyes.

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 09/12/2020 23:50:20    2320927

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Replying To jimski:  "Correct me if I'm wrong but..but.. didn't Dublin win the All Ireland in each of those years?? I seem to remember the so-called Drive for Five??"
Exactly.
Serious revisionism going on lately. It is painful to listen to.
Meanwhile Fenton could potentially go his entire time at ic football unbeaten. I have to say, it is disappointing to see the trend emerging that dublin fans and indeed those higher up the ladder, seem like they couldnt give a toss about the gaa, outside of dublin gaa. It isnt what the thing is supposed to be about. No person from outside dublin had an issue with dublin getting the investment in the first place, even though it probably meant their own counties had less of a chance of winning something. It is disappointing that the opposite seems like something that dublin fans could never fathom taking place.

HardCase (USA) - Posts: 64 - 10/12/2020 01:04:25    2320938

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Replying To HardCase:  "Exactly.
Serious revisionism going on lately. It is painful to listen to.
Meanwhile Fenton could potentially go his entire time at ic football unbeaten. I have to say, it is disappointing to see the trend emerging that dublin fans and indeed those higher up the ladder, seem like they couldnt give a toss about the gaa, outside of dublin gaa. It isnt what the thing is supposed to be about. No person from outside dublin had an issue with dublin getting the investment in the first place, even though it probably meant their own counties had less of a chance of winning something. It is disappointing that the opposite seems like something that dublin fans could never fathom taking place."
That's just not true. I and many other Dubs would welcome a discussion on restructuring the championship to level things out as much as possible. There are imbalances all over the place from county populations, size of provinces and yes funding too. If splitting Dublin was part of a complete overhaul of the championship structure then it would have to be considered. However when all we hear is split Dublin in 2/4/6 or whatever in isolation as a means to stop us from winning matches then it is hard not to be defensive.

bubba83 (Dublin) - Posts: 333 - 10/12/2020 09:30:10    2320958

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Replying To KillingFields:  "But there has always been a small number of counties in with a serious chance of winning.
When was that any different?"
That's my point. It's fine suggesting split Dublin and that will make it more difficult for them but it's not going to change things as regards the likes of Kerry who will then just have an easier run to an All Ireland title. If it's not Kerry it'll be one of a small number. The only way to change these "traditional " winners is to bring about change to the whole structure of the competition and if you are going to consider splitting Dublin you also have to be prepared to merge smaller counties with the more traditional strongholds. There is generally a small number of teams in most sports that dominate over time but that doesn't mean it has to remain that way in the GAA if all are prepared to address the problems and accept changes.
It won't happen today or tomorrow though because Dublin will lose at some stage and it's easier to stick with what's there.
Listen, I don't have all the answers but if people want to make changes to Dublin they have to be prepared to accept changes themselves.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 10/12/2020 10:09:03    2320971

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Replying To bubba83:  "That's just not true. I and many other Dubs would welcome a discussion on restructuring the championship to level things out as much as possible. There are imbalances all over the place from county populations, size of provinces and yes funding too. If splitting Dublin was part of a complete overhaul of the championship structure then it would have to be considered. However when all we hear is split Dublin in 2/4/6 or whatever in isolation as a means to stop us from winning matches then it is hard not to be defensive."
Well said bubba83

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2823 - 10/12/2020 10:33:47    2320977

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