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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "With the four Dublin teams in the tiered competition,play three in the top tier and DLRD in the second tier.Twelve or more teams in top tier?what do people think?" There is one Dublin team , thanks
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 25/02/2021 09:53:35
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "With the four Dublin teams in the tiered competition,play three in the top tier and DLRD in the second tier.Twelve or more teams in top tier?what do people think?" I think realistically all four new teams would have to start in the bottom tier.
Unless it's part of an overall restructuring of the inter-County areas then it will take time to get buy in from players and supporters so it would have to be all four in a bottom tier.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 25/02/2021 10:09:51
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Replying To MesAmis: "I think realistically all four new teams would have to start in the bottom tier.
Unless it's part of an overall restructuring of the inter-County areas then it will take time to get buy in from players and supporters so it would have to be all four in a bottom tier." Dont know any Dublin supporters that would buy in to a split
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 25/02/2021 17:16:31
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Replying To superbluedub: "Dont know any Dublin supporters that would buy in to a split" It Dublin was split, and only Dublin as well as no amalgamations then I agree. You could play their games up Fairview Park for all the crowd to ree. That's if you could get players that is.
If it were done as part of an overall restructuring of the inter-County boundaries then I think it'd have a much better chance.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 25/02/2021 17:58:49
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Replying To MesAmis: "It Dublin was split, and only Dublin as well as no amalgamations then I agree. You could play their games up Fairview Park for all the crowd to ree. That's if you could get players that is.
If it were done as part of an overall restructuring of the inter-County boundaries then I think it'd have a much better chance." Agreed MesAmis,a full restructure of the teams taking part in the AI football championship is required to bring us a fair and even competition.The discussion in the earlier part of the thread centered around amalgamating teams and splitting Dublin.It gave us 16 teams to compete for the AI football championship.Dublin would be split in four but would field two amalgamated teams for the AI championship.Dublin would be represented by four teams in the tiered competition and all other counties would be represented as they are presently for the tiered competition.I believe there is merit in this restructure.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 25/02/2021 20:33:47
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "Agreed MesAmis,a full restructure of the teams taking part in the AI football championship is required to bring us a fair and even competition.The discussion in the earlier part of the thread centered around amalgamating teams and splitting Dublin.It gave us 16 teams to compete for the AI football championship.Dublin would be split in four but would field two amalgamated teams for the AI championship.Dublin would be represented by four teams in the tiered competition and all other counties would be represented as they are presently for the tiered competition.I believe there is merit in this restructure." There is no merit in this restructure nonsense
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 25/02/2021 20:42:28
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For the tiered competition there would be a total of 36 teams divided into three tiers,each comprising 12 Teams.
TIER 1 ...12 teams
Kerry, Fingal, Dn Cty, Dn Sth, Galway, Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan, Mayo, Meath, Roscommon, Armagh.
For the sake of discussion I have divided them into four groups of three,each team will play two home and two away games.I'm a firm believer in the home and away games,it gives opportunity to supporters to attend the home games and also makes good use of the stadia.So heres the four groups,I have kept the three Dublin teams apart....
Group 1.....Kerry Mayo Armagh.
Group 2.....Fingal Galway Meath
Group 3.....Dn City Tyrone Roscommon
Group 4.....Dn South Donegal Monaghan
Top 2 in each group play Qtr finals.
The three Dublin teams to play their home games in Croke Park as part of a triple header.
Tier 2....12 Teams
Kildare, Westmeath, DLR, Laois, Cavan, Clare, Fermanagh, Cork, Derry, Down, Longford, Tipperary.
Again four groups of three teams playing two home and two away games.
Group 1....Kildare Down Clare
Group 2....DLR Tipperary Westmeath
Group 3...Cavan Laois Fermanagh
Group 4...Cork Longford Derry
Top two in each group play Qtr finals
Tier 3.....12 Teams
Offaly, Leitrim, Louth, Wicklow, Limerick, Antrim, Sligo, Wexford, Carlow, Waterford, London, Kilkenny.
Again four groups of three.
Group 1...Offaly Leitrim Carlow
Group 2..Wicklow Antrim London
Group 3..Limerick Wexford Waterford
Group 4..Louth Sligo Kilkenny
Again each team plays two home and two away games.Top two in each group play Qtr finals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There would be promotion to Tier 1 and Tier 2 and demotion to Tier 2 and Tier 3.There are different ways of accomplishing this.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 25/02/2021 21:32:47
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Until the lower team competitions (no disrespect) in both codes are given equal air time and coverage as the top ones there will be no change. In fact players will drop out as they are putting probably as much work in. The gap in standard is not as large as thought. In my time watching most of the time teams can stay in touch with the elites until half time. I don't half stats on it but would be surprised if not true 70% of the time. What does that say ? Probably the lower teams don't half the same level of fitness, coaching, resources, money etc. and definitely support. I will also agree that the top teams pick up their game in second halves.
Some one pointed out in another thread that the top teams get carried putting beatings on lesser teams. I agree, while understanding they have to play out the game. In hockey it is frowned on to continue scoring after you are so far ahead. They will shoot at the goalie not to beat him. In fact going in to double digits is looked at as show boating and the next team will lay the lumber on you. It is a delicate balance as you don't want to be patronizing either. The good respectful teams know how to do it.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 25/02/2021 21:37:16
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "For the tiered competition there would be a total of 36 teams divided into three tiers,each comprising 12 Teams.
TIER 1 ...12 teams
Kerry, Fingal, Dn Cty, Dn Sth, Galway, Tyrone, Donegal, Monaghan, Mayo, Meath, Roscommon, Armagh.
For the sake of discussion I have divided them into four groups of three,each team will play two home and two away games.I'm a firm believer in the home and away games,it gives opportunity to supporters to attend the home games and also makes good use of the stadia.So heres the four groups,I have kept the three Dublin teams apart....
Group 1.....Kerry Mayo Armagh.
Group 2.....Fingal Galway Meath
Group 3.....Dn City Tyrone Roscommon
Group 4.....Dn South Donegal Monaghan
Top 2 in each group play Qtr finals.
The three Dublin teams to play their home games in Croke Park as part of a triple header.
Tier 2....12 Teams
Kildare, Westmeath, DLR, Laois, Cavan, Clare, Fermanagh, Cork, Derry, Down, Longford, Tipperary.
Again four groups of three teams playing two home and two away games.
Group 1....Kildare Down Clare
Group 2....DLR Tipperary Westmeath
Group 3...Cavan Laois Fermanagh
Group 4...Cork Longford Derry
Top two in each group play Qtr finals
Tier 3.....12 Teams
Offaly, Leitrim, Louth, Wicklow, Limerick, Antrim, Sligo, Wexford, Carlow, Waterford, London, Kilkenny.
Again four groups of three.
Group 1...Offaly Leitrim Carlow
Group 2..Wicklow Antrim London
Group 3..Limerick Wexford Waterford
Group 4..Louth Sligo Kilkenny
Again each team plays two home and two away games.Top two in each group play Qtr finals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There would be promotion to Tier 1 and Tier 2 and demotion to Tier 2 and Tier 3.There are different ways of accomplishing this." Again there is only one Dublin team -:)
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 25/02/2021 22:24:34
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Replying To Canuck: "Until the lower team competitions (no disrespect) in both codes are given equal air time and coverage as the top ones there will be no change. In fact players will drop out as they are putting probably as much work in. The gap in standard is not as large as thought. In my time watching most of the time teams can stay in touch with the elites until half time. I don't half stats on it but would be surprised if not true 70% of the time. What does that say ? Probably the lower teams don't half the same level of fitness, coaching, resources, money etc. and definitely support. I will also agree that the top teams pick up their game in second halves.
Some one pointed out in another thread that the top teams get carried putting beatings on lesser teams. I agree, while understanding they have to play out the game. In hockey it is frowned on to continue scoring after you are so far ahead. They will shoot at the goalie not to beat him. In fact going in to double digits is looked at as show boating and the next team will lay the lumber on you. It is a delicate balance as you don't want to be patronizing either. The good respectful teams know how to do it." But will people watch these games involving the lower teams? You can take a horse to water etc.
Champions league finals for example are more often than not pretty boring games but ill bet people will still watch them over an exciting Europa league final.
How many threads have been set up here to discuss lower tier teams/leagues? Not many, And we'd all be generally committed gaa fans, forget about getting casual fans on board.
I'm also sceptical of the idea that bottom ranked teams put in as much effort. I'm not sure like, could be wrong, but it comes across as possibly a tokenistic soundbite.
Is, say, a donegal hurler as committed as a kilkenny one?
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1711 - 27/02/2021 09:17:47
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With a focus firmly on Dublin football, I think there is possibly merit in splitting Dublin in two, purely because of the overwhelming force of numbers. Dublin hurling is probably a decade away from having similar levels of dominance.
But I think Dublin's main advantages are elsewhere.
Dublin also have their own disadvantages - urban environment means that there are more distractions, relative participation numbers are probably lower than in other counties and Dublin do have more competition for elite players from rugby/soccer.
The un-solvable advantages for Dublin:
1. Population
Its a fact that won't change - Dublin has more people. But they don't all play football. In fact, Dublin participation rates may actually compare unfavourably with the likes of Kerry and Mayo. But it's not just players where Dublin have an advantage. Clubs have more members, therefore a better chance at finding a non-playing, key contributor - an administrator, a good coach, a substantial financial backer.
2. Club facilities
I've played in Kerry, Cork, Kildare and Dublin. Cork and Kerry have some big clubs with super facilities - Nemo Ranger in Cork have a fine setup - but there are just more big clubs in Dublin with access to high standard facilities. There are plenty of Dublin clubs who don't have facilities and rely on corpo pitches, but the big clubs are very well run.
3. Money money money - club finances
Dublin is a city, it has more successful business who can offer bigger sponsorship to clubs. Fermanagh is not a city, it has some big companies, but mostly it's the local pub or a big welder.
4. Small county with excellent public transport
The majority of Dublin players don't have a 2 or 3 hour round trip for training. This might not seem like much, but you ask a player based in West Kerry what it is like going to Killarney for training, going home and trying to recover ahead of the next training session and I'm sure they'd have an opinion.
5. Dublin players can wake up in their own beds on the morning of a semi-final or final. It helps.
The more solvable advantages:
1. Smarter Central Funding
Like it or not, this is a big big deal and very hard to level as funding is - I believe (and open to correction) - based on per person membership. Dublin have the numbers and funding teams based on membership is fair, but where this gets skewed is when you have a club like Ballyboden who might have 5 teams at U12 vs a rural club in Offaly or relatively strong Kerry, who might only have 25 players in total.
Ballyboden don't need to invest in every kid to get a consistent supply of high grade talent through to senior, they just need to invest in the best 20 out of 150 or more and pick up those late bloomers along the way.
For a club with 20 young players, they have to maximise the potential of EVERY player in order to succeed. Lets say Ballyboden and Lispole in Kerry are both given 1000 euros per grade instead of per member? Lispole may have 40 kids at U12 and can therefore provide them with excellent facilities - be it fancy cones, a warm drink after a match, a club jacket or more money for an indoor hall for winter training. Ballyboden's would see that money spread a lot thinner, but there's a chance that Ballyboden can still fully fund 60 players or more based on other income.
2. Familiarity with Croke Park
Dublin know Croke Park like no other team. It is effectively their home pitch and many Dublin senior footballers will never see the inside or Parnell Park on a match day. Dublin players know the boundaries, the size, the lines of running. The coaches have developed a way of playing that is completely tailored to Croke Park.
If Dublin have to play 50% of their games in smaller venues then training won't be so consistently based on Croke Park's dimensions. Even the Super 8s favour Dublin - 2 out of 3 games are played there.
kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 76 - 14/03/2021 12:43:21
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Replying To kingdom_come: "With a focus firmly on Dublin football, I think there is possibly merit in splitting Dublin in two, purely because of the overwhelming force of numbers. Dublin hurling is probably a decade away from having similar levels of dominance.
But I think Dublin's main advantages are elsewhere.
Dublin also have their own disadvantages - urban environment means that there are more distractions, relative participation numbers are probably lower than in other counties and Dublin do have more competition for elite players from rugby/soccer.
The un-solvable advantages for Dublin:
1. Population
Its a fact that won't change - Dublin has more people. But they don't all play football. In fact, Dublin participation rates may actually compare unfavourably with the likes of Kerry and Mayo. But it's not just players where Dublin have an advantage. Clubs have more members, therefore a better chance at finding a non-playing, key contributor - an administrator, a good coach, a substantial financial backer.
2. Club facilities
I've played in Kerry, Cork, Kildare and Dublin. Cork and Kerry have some big clubs with super facilities - Nemo Ranger in Cork have a fine setup - but there are just more big clubs in Dublin with access to high standard facilities. There are plenty of Dublin clubs who don't have facilities and rely on corpo pitches, but the big clubs are very well run.
3. Money money money - club finances
Dublin is a city, it has more successful business who can offer bigger sponsorship to clubs. Fermanagh is not a city, it has some big companies, but mostly it's the local pub or a big welder.
4. Small county with excellent public transport
The majority of Dublin players don't have a 2 or 3 hour round trip for training. This might not seem like much, but you ask a player based in West Kerry what it is like going to Killarney for training, going home and trying to recover ahead of the next training session and I'm sure they'd have an opinion.
5. Dublin players can wake up in their own beds on the morning of a semi-final or final. It helps.
The more solvable advantages:
1. Smarter Central Funding
Like it or not, this is a big big deal and very hard to level as funding is - I believe (and open to correction) - based on per person membership. Dublin have the numbers and funding teams based on membership is fair, but where this gets skewed is when you have a club like Ballyboden who might have 5 teams at U12 vs a rural club in Offaly or relatively strong Kerry, who might only have 25 players in total.
Ballyboden don't need to invest in every kid to get a consistent supply of high grade talent through to senior, they just need to invest in the best 20 out of 150 or more and pick up those late bloomers along the way.
For a club with 20 young players, they have to maximise the potential of EVERY player in order to succeed. Lets say Ballyboden and Lispole in Kerry are both given 1000 euros per grade instead of per member? Lispole may have 40 kids at U12 and can therefore provide them with excellent facilities - be it fancy cones, a warm drink after a match, a club jacket or more money for an indoor hall for winter training. Ballyboden's would see that money spread a lot thinner, but there's a chance that Ballyboden can still fully fund 60 players or more based on other income.
2. Familiarity with Croke Park
Dublin know Croke Park like no other team. It is effectively their home pitch and many Dublin senior footballers will never see the inside or Parnell Park on a match day. Dublin players know the boundaries, the size, the lines of running. The coaches have developed a way of playing that is completely tailored to Croke Park.
If Dublin have to play 50% of their games in smaller venues then training won't be so consistently based on Croke Park's dimensions. Even the Super 8s favour Dublin - 2 out of 3 games are played there." Well thought out post and yes per population Dublin participation in the gaa is pretty low.Croke Park is a hard one. Of course its a big advantage and not only pitch knowledge but the fans help too and maybe sometimes refs can be intimidated too unknowns to themselves. Yes in every sport this happens. However its awkward as it's not proper logistically wise to have Dublin play a home game in Parnell Park and thousands of fans lose out attending. Yes Dublin should play away and neutral games but IMO and in the interest of fairness they should be allowed play their home games where they like(in fairness you do mention 50%).On the super 8s (if we ever see them again) that issue is being addressed I believe and Dublin will only get one croke park game. Alot of Dublin fans would enjoy going on the road and great for business in small towns. However its not just Dublin here but the gaa like to maximise finance and are slow to let the dubs out of Croker. I can also see why Dub fans are annoyed at the constant attack on their team. Like always it's when the teams start winning people start to complain. This should have been addressed years ago but when Dubs were nt winning complaints were few bar an odd motion here and there.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 14/03/2021 14:52:19
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A complete in-depth look at the structuring of teams taking part in the AI Senior football championship needs to take place.Splitting Dublin will only work within this realm and in addition amalgamating weaker teams.Tinkering around the edges with financing and administration will not suffice.
From inception the structure and representation of teams was never going to allow for a level and fair competition and the competition has become completely lopsided now and cannot continue in its present format.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 14/03/2021 21:45:52
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "A complete in-depth look at the structuring of teams taking part in the AI Senior football championship needs to take place.Splitting Dublin will only work within this realm and in addition amalgamating weaker teams.Tinkering around the edges with financing and administration will not suffice.
From inception the structure and representation of teams was never going to allow for a level and fair competition and the competition has become completely lopsided now and cannot continue in its present format." No to amalgamation and no to splitting Dublin. Amalgamation could actually weaken some teams .
AfricanGael (UK) - Posts: 1947 - 15/03/2021 09:04:46
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Replying To AfricanGael: "No to amalgamation and no to splitting Dublin. Amalgamation could actually weaken some teams ." On amalgamation, quite simply it will never work and on so many levels.
1) How does management work. For example say Meath and Westmeath are amalgamated. A Westmeath person is appointed manager and picks a 60/40 Westmeath split. Can you imagine the uproar from Meath people. How dare s/he think Westmeath footballers are better than Meath Footballers. Same could be applied if it was Cavan/Monaghan, Offaly/Kildare, Roscommon/ Leitrim etc.
2) How does home venue get decided? i.e Cavan and Monaghan both have 30+ thousand stadia. Where are homes games played? Clones or Breffini Park. What happens to the now defunct former county stadia around the country? Look at Casement Park in Belfast.. do people really want another 10/12 of these around the country.
3) Do county boards amalgamate?
4) Where do teams train?
5) What colours do teams wear?
6) Are county championships amalgamated?
7) How is sponsorship treated? I.e. would counties be allowed have 2 principle sponsors.. i.e would Kinspan sponsor a Cavan AND Monaghan amalgamation. What happens with Monaghan's primary sponsor or do both counties lose out on a revenue stream.
8) How are GDF, central funding and provinicial funding then divvied up.
I'm sure there's plenty more I'm not even think of.
Every argument that people have for splitting up Dublin and the implications of doing so has to be considered if you're going to consider amalgamating counties.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 15/03/2021 10:00:58
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Replying To kingdom_come: "With a focus firmly on Dublin football, I think there is possibly merit in splitting Dublin in two, purely because of the overwhelming force of numbers. Dublin hurling is probably a decade away from having similar levels of dominance.
But I think Dublin's main advantages are elsewhere.
Dublin also have their own disadvantages - urban environment means that there are more distractions, relative participation numbers are probably lower than in other counties and Dublin do have more competition for elite players from rugby/soccer.
The un-solvable advantages for Dublin:
1. Population
Its a fact that won't change - Dublin has more people. But they don't all play football. In fact, Dublin participation rates may actually compare unfavourably with the likes of Kerry and Mayo. But it's not just players where Dublin have an advantage. Clubs have more members, therefore a better chance at finding a non-playing, key contributor - an administrator, a good coach, a substantial financial backer.
2. Club facilities
I've played in Kerry, Cork, Kildare and Dublin. Cork and Kerry have some big clubs with super facilities - Nemo Ranger in Cork have a fine setup - but there are just more big clubs in Dublin with access to high standard facilities. There are plenty of Dublin clubs who don't have facilities and rely on corpo pitches, but the big clubs are very well run.
3. Money money money - club finances
Dublin is a city, it has more successful business who can offer bigger sponsorship to clubs. Fermanagh is not a city, it has some big companies, but mostly it's the local pub or a big welder.
4. Small county with excellent public transport
The majority of Dublin players don't have a 2 or 3 hour round trip for training. This might not seem like much, but you ask a player based in West Kerry what it is like going to Killarney for training, going home and trying to recover ahead of the next training session and I'm sure they'd have an opinion.
5. Dublin players can wake up in their own beds on the morning of a semi-final or final. It helps.
The more solvable advantages:
1. Smarter Central Funding
Like it or not, this is a big big deal and very hard to level as funding is - I believe (and open to correction) - based on per person membership. Dublin have the numbers and funding teams based on membership is fair, but where this gets skewed is when you have a club like Ballyboden who might have 5 teams at U12 vs a rural club in Offaly or relatively strong Kerry, who might only have 25 players in total.
Ballyboden don't need to invest in every kid to get a consistent supply of high grade talent through to senior, they just need to invest in the best 20 out of 150 or more and pick up those late bloomers along the way.
For a club with 20 young players, they have to maximise the potential of EVERY player in order to succeed. Lets say Ballyboden and Lispole in Kerry are both given 1000 euros per grade instead of per member? Lispole may have 40 kids at U12 and can therefore provide them with excellent facilities - be it fancy cones, a warm drink after a match, a club jacket or more money for an indoor hall for winter training. Ballyboden's would see that money spread a lot thinner, but there's a chance that Ballyboden can still fully fund 60 players or more based on other income.
2. Familiarity with Croke Park
Dublin know Croke Park like no other team. It is effectively their home pitch and many Dublin senior footballers will never see the inside or Parnell Park on a match day. Dublin players know the boundaries, the size, the lines of running. The coaches have developed a way of playing that is completely tailored to Croke Park.
If Dublin have to play 50% of their games in smaller venues then training won't be so consistently based on Croke Park's dimensions. Even the Super 8s favour Dublin - 2 out of 3 games are played there." Very well thought out and balanced points.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 15/03/2021 10:17:00
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Replying To brian: "On amalgamation, quite simply it will never work and on so many levels.
1) How does management work. For example say Meath and Westmeath are amalgamated. A Westmeath person is appointed manager and picks a 60/40 Westmeath split. Can you imagine the uproar from Meath people. How dare s/he think Westmeath footballers are better than Meath Footballers. Same could be applied if it was Cavan/Monaghan, Offaly/Kildare, Roscommon/ Leitrim etc.
2) How does home venue get decided? i.e Cavan and Monaghan both have 30+ thousand stadia. Where are homes games played? Clones or Breffini Park. What happens to the now defunct former county stadia around the country? Look at Casement Park in Belfast.. do people really want another 10/12 of these around the country.
3) Do county boards amalgamate?
4) Where do teams train?
5) What colours do teams wear?
6) Are county championships amalgamated?
7) How is sponsorship treated? I.e. would counties be allowed have 2 principle sponsors.. i.e would Kinspan sponsor a Cavan AND Monaghan amalgamation. What happens with Monaghan's primary sponsor or do both counties lose out on a revenue stream.
8) How are GDF, central funding and provinicial funding then divvied up.
I'm sure there's plenty more I'm not even think of.
Every argument that people have for splitting up Dublin and the implications of doing so has to be considered if you're going to consider amalgamating counties." 1) I don't that's a particularly good argument against amalgamation to be honest. There is already a version of this within counties. A manager from the west of the county only picks players from the west etc. We've had that in counties for years and it isn't a reason that the inter county system doesn't work so it isn't a very god reason against amalgamations imo.
2) Home venue could be rotated I'm sure. Some counties already do a version of this. Again I hardly think that's a very good reason against amalgamations.
3) I'd imagine they would have to.
4) They train wherever they want to.
5) They wear whatever colours they want to.
6) This is a more interesting point I think. I think in the long run that the county championships would amalgamate but maybe the 'historical' county championship could still feature as a regional competition maybe.
7) Sponsorship would be of the amalgamated county for the amalgamated county to use. I don't really see the issue here at all.
8) Again, as above. Funding would be for the new amalgamated county to do with what it wishes.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13710 - 15/03/2021 10:25:30
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Replying To brian: "On amalgamation, quite simply it will never work and on so many levels.
1) How does management work. For example say Meath and Westmeath are amalgamated. A Westmeath person is appointed manager and picks a 60/40 Westmeath split. Can you imagine the uproar from Meath people. How dare s/he think Westmeath footballers are better than Meath Footballers. Same could be applied if it was Cavan/Monaghan, Offaly/Kildare, Roscommon/ Leitrim etc.
2) How does home venue get decided? i.e Cavan and Monaghan both have 30+ thousand stadia. Where are homes games played? Clones or Breffini Park. What happens to the now defunct former county stadia around the country? Look at Casement Park in Belfast.. do people really want another 10/12 of these around the country.
3) Do county boards amalgamate?
4) Where do teams train?
5) What colours do teams wear?
6) Are county championships amalgamated?
7) How is sponsorship treated? I.e. would counties be allowed have 2 principle sponsors.. i.e would Kinspan sponsor a Cavan AND Monaghan amalgamation. What happens with Monaghan's primary sponsor or do both counties lose out on a revenue stream.
8) How are GDF, central funding and provinicial funding then divvied up.
I'm sure there's plenty more I'm not even think of.
Every argument that people have for splitting up Dublin and the implications of doing so has to be considered if you're going to consider amalgamating counties." Amalgamation would be for the AI football championship only and county teams would play as presently constituted in the tiered competitions and have their own county championship and identity as now.Who knows but amalgamation could eventually be made permanent depending on how successful it was.
I have to say Brian that your points against amalgamation are too insular,we need to think outside the box and believe in the possible.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 15/03/2021 20:45:26
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Replying To MesAmis: "1) I don't that's a particularly good argument against amalgamation to be honest. There is already a version of this within counties. A manager from the west of the county only picks players from the west etc. We've had that in counties for years and it isn't a reason that the inter county system doesn't work so it isn't a very god reason against amalgamations imo.
2) Home venue could be rotated I'm sure. Some counties already do a version of this. Again I hardly think that's a very good reason against amalgamations.
3) I'd imagine they would have to.
4) They train wherever they want to.
5) They wear whatever colours they want to.
6) This is a more interesting point I think. I think in the long run that the county championships would amalgamate but maybe the 'historical' county championship could still feature as a regional competition maybe.
7) Sponsorship would be of the amalgamated county for the amalgamated county to use. I don't really see the issue here at all.
8) Again, as above. Funding would be for the new amalgamated county to do with what it wishes." great post....logical and sensible!
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 15/03/2021 20:52:54
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "Amalgamation would be for the AI football championship only and county teams would play as presently constituted in the tiered competitions and have their own county championship and identity as now.Who knows but amalgamation could eventually be made permanent depending on how successful it was.
I have to say Brian that your points against amalgamation are too insular,we need to think outside the box and believe in the possible." Nothing insular about it. Why should we think outside the box for one competition. Why should it be only the football championship. You can't have one rule/ set of teams for one competition and different teams for everything else. Again many of the points I raised come into play. GDF and central & provincial council funding goes on a county by county basis. How are the amalgamated teams funded? Do both counties put in the same amount? When do they play and train together for your AI championship? Why are they separate for one thing and not another. It's the GAA you're talking about where change is slow.
County teams want to play games together not in a half assed two set up way with two sets of management, two sets of tactics, two styles of play, two different training regimes and demands on their time. We're talking about player burn out yet we're suggesting that teams now amalgamate. Jesus a young lad at college could end up with 7/8 different teams wanting their services. College, club, county, underage, amalgamated county.. how are they supposed to fit more in.
Yes a tiered championship would work best for all. Amalgamation If brought in would be for a short space of time won't solve any of the issues that exist in the current game.
Here's a question on it, Dublin play however many games a year, say 10. How many games do these amalgamated teams play together? Is it a one and done thing? Are there amalgamated team leagues and then county leagues? How are lads supposed to come together with little to no games together to try and beat a team like Dublin who'd be playing together all the time....
If this was for hurling would Limerick amalgamate with Clare, Cork, Tipp or Kerry. Would they hell. So why should it be done for football.
I understand the point you're trying to make but there's a lot of holes in the way your approaching it. Until there's some kind of thinking and structure behind it it's a fart in the wind.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 16/03/2021 00:01:51
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