|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Ya I'd agree with most of that mes, you know it's great to see the more we discuss the splitting of dublin the more dubs like yourself and few others are starting to come around to the idea.
The 5 stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.
Well we've had the denial and anger from some dublin posters and now we're on to the bargaining, next ye will have a bit of depression and then the acceptance so it's great to see we're all moving forward.
Change is hard but it's something we all have to contend with in our lives at some stage." So which Kerry will you shout for? :D
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 11/02/2021 20:07:05
2331108
Link
9
|
|
Replying To lilylanger: "Who would Kerry merge with?" You need to look beyond 'counties' amalgamating, although in some instances that'll work well, to the idea of parts of counties joining together or joining with another smaller county.
South and East Kerry could join up with West Cork for example. That's just an example, I don't know if that particular one is feasible or not but you get the point in making.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13709 - 11/02/2021 20:24:57
2331113
Link
7
|
|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Ya I'd agree with most of that mes, you know it's great to see the more we discuss the splitting of dublin the more dubs like yourself and few others are starting to come around to the idea.
The 5 stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.
Well we've had the denial and anger from some dublin posters and now we're on to the bargaining, next ye will have a bit of depression and then the acceptance so it's great to see we're all moving forward.
Change is hard but it's something we all have to contend with in our lives at some stage." And it's good to see you recognising that it is more than just splitting Dublin that needs to be done to make everything completly fair.
Change is hard indeed but there may need to be sacrifices, like splitting Dublin, amalgamating parts of Kerry with parts of neighbouring counties etc but it may need to be done in the future.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13709 - 11/02/2021 20:31:07
2331115
Link
6
|
|
Replying To Dubh_linn: "Funny you should mention population not being a guarantee of success.
Kilkenny and Kerry have the most All Ireland's.
They obviously are more oriented towards one code , particularly Kilkenny, but they obviously have great backing and excellent structures in place otherwise they would not have managed to compete at the highest level on such a regular basis and have some of the smaller populations.
Both managed to produce great teams and while Dublin have been blessed with the great talent that has prevailed over the last decade I don't think there is any concrete evidence to suggest that these players will be as easily replaced as many calling for the split seem to want to believe.
Last year I think was an odd year when you look at the championship as a whole and the way a couple of the provinces unfolded so I don't think you could use that as a real barometer of where all the teams are now.
That is not to say those teams didn't deserve their victories, of course they did and it was great to see them have their day but I think most people would not have bet on those outcomes at the start of the championship." Think we have both agreed here before that population won't guarantee success Dubhlinn ...and last year may indeed have been an unusual championship but Dublins name is still in the history books as winning it.
Kilkenny (pop 99,000) have done remarkably well in winning titles, even if not a sinner kicked a football there... as have Kerry (pop 147,000) in football even though they are improving in hurling all the time ( especially last 10 years. ).
I still feel a lot of Kerry's success in last 50 years was built around 1 or 2 exceptional teams. ( 1 team in the 1980s and 1 in the 2000s.... after 86 they only won 2 titles in next 17 years ).
Galway also had 2 exceptional teams in 64/66 winning 3 finals and in 98/2001 winning 2 finals....but we have very little done between or after those 2 great teams...
My point is, population is hugely relevant because if you bring everything outside the pitch to a similar very high standard in 2 different places like Kerry and Dublin obviously have in last 10 years,...then you will have a good advantage of finding more raw talent to develop if your population is 10 times greater than the other ?? Is that logical ?....
Again without trying to be smart I would suggest there is in plenty of concrete evidence that those great Dublin players that started the run of 8 wins out of last 10 finals have been replaced... and possibly by as goid if not better players like Fenton, O Callaghan, Howard, Kilkenny, Murchan etc ....unlike those great Galway and Kerry teams mentioned above.
Black+Blue (Galway) - Posts: 122 - 11/02/2021 20:40:57
2331116
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Dubh_linn: "Funny you should mention population not being a guarantee of success.
Kilkenny and Kerry have the most All Ireland's.
They obviously are more oriented towards one code , particularly Kilkenny, but they obviously have great backing and excellent structures in place otherwise they would not have managed to compete at the highest level on such a regular basis and have some of the smaller populations.
Both managed to produce great teams and while Dublin have been blessed with the great talent that has prevailed over the last decade I don't think there is any concrete evidence to suggest that these players will be as easily replaced as many calling for the split seem to want to believe.
Last year I think was an odd year when you look at the championship as a whole and the way a couple of the provinces unfolded so I don't think you could use that as a real barometer of where all the teams are now.
That is not to say those teams didn't deserve their victories, of course they did and it was great to see them have their day but I think most people would not have bet on those outcomes at the start of the championship." Well said Dubh linn.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 11/02/2021 20:44:27
2331117
Link
3
|
|
Replying To realdub: "So which Kerry will you shout for? :D" West kerry real dub, you see we already have divisional teams down here in the Kingdom with years and years, our Pobailscoil Chorca Dhuibhn won 2 Hogan cups in 2014 and 2015 we have serious tradition, we've all bought into our divisional systems so it'll probably be easier for us.
What will you change your poster name to when yer split?
I'm going to change mine to WestKingdomboy1
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 11/02/2021 21:11:39
2331119
Link
3
|
|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "West kerry real dub, you see we already have divisional teams down here in the Kingdom with years and years, our Pobailscoil Chorca Dhuibhn won 2 Hogan cups in 2014 and 2015 we have serious tradition, we've all bought into our divisional systems so it'll probably be easier for us.
What will you change your poster name to when yer split?
I'm going to change mine to WestKingdomboy1" I hope if South North or East or Mid Kerry beat the west you won't give out about money or home advantage. The big games between Kerry teams would be played in Killarney or Tralee so West won't have home advantage lol
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 11/02/2021 22:04:08
2331129
Link
3
|
|
Replying To Black+Blue: "Think we have both agreed here before that population won't guarantee success Dubhlinn ...and last year may indeed have been an unusual championship but Dublins name is still in the history books as winning it.
Kilkenny (pop 99,000) have done remarkably well in winning titles, even if not a sinner kicked a football there... as have Kerry (pop 147,000) in football even though they are improving in hurling all the time ( especially last 10 years. ).
I still feel a lot of Kerry's success in last 50 years was built around 1 or 2 exceptional teams. ( 1 team in the 1980s and 1 in the 2000s.... after 86 they only won 2 titles in next 17 years ).
Galway also had 2 exceptional teams in 64/66 winning 3 finals and in 98/2001 winning 2 finals....but we have very little done between or after those 2 great teams...
My point is, population is hugely relevant because if you bring everything outside the pitch to a similar very high standard in 2 different places like Kerry and Dublin obviously have in last 10 years,...then you will have a good advantage of finding more raw talent to develop if your population is 10 times greater than the other ?? Is that logical ?....
Again without trying to be smart I would suggest there is in plenty of concrete evidence that those great Dublin players that started the run of 8 wins out of last 10 finals have been replaced... and possibly by as goid if not better players like Fenton, O Callaghan, Howard, Kilkenny, Murchan etc ....unlike those great Galway and Kerry teams mentioned above." Not sure that's a very fair argument, like most things with these debates the big headline figure aren't really representative. Total population doesn't tell the whole story at Senior level. It's more about participation rates.
According to Shame Mangan
Dublin have 39k registered players from a population of 1.3mill.
Galway have 21.5k registered players from a population of 258k
Dublin still have more, but not ridiculously so, Cork for example come in at 33k, if the participation rates increased, I think we'd have a case to answer, but total population isn't reflective really of nuts and bolts of competitiveness.
The participation to total population figures are really interesting, Dublin would kill for participation of about 10% of total population like Galway. Kerry come in at about 10% today. It's brilliant stuff.
Dublin are about 2.6% of its total population. That's actually problem with GDF per registered player, the funding is for the total population, put people calculate on registered player to push an agenda, which as above is a very low ratio.
With the above ratios in mind, why do other counties want to follow the Dublin model? Other counties are doing participation and development better then us and have much better cultivated their population resources.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 11/02/2021 23:19:59
2331136
Link
5
|
|
Replying To CiarraiMick: "I hope if South North or East or Mid Kerry beat the west you won't give out about money or home advantage. The big games between Kerry teams would be played in Killarney or Tralee so West won't have home advantage lol" No Mick I won't give out about money when playing the other divisional teams sure haven't we all loads of it :-)
I can't wait till Tim Murphy gives us our share we'll party like it's 2099.
And of course il give out if we have to play say East kerry in killarney when it should be on in Tralee but we'll have our share of games back here as well, I don't think the boys from the East of the county will enjoy a cold wet windy day out in Gallarus, that'll quitend the hoors.
The worst thing though is the rural depopulation of North and south kerry but that will probably lead to an amalgamation of the county again at some point.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 12/02/2021 07:55:49
2331147
Link
2
|
|
I see we've all been suitably lectured from the pulpit about the stages of grief ;)
Someone who's been in the anger stage of it for years probably shouldn't talk about being fully through it.... or have they even got to the anger stage or are they still at the throwing their toys out of the pram like a baby stage.
Anyways its good to see points being reasonably discussed.
Just addressing one of the points a poster made to me in terms of contradicting myself. Yes i understand where you're coming from on it. Forgive me if i made the point badly I'll try and expand. For years the Dublin GAA did nothing to bring people into the game across all codes and levels so given their population they should've always been close to winning all Ireland's. Until they put proper structures in place in they weren't maximising the return they were capable of. It still doesn't exclude the fact that this current mens team is a once on a generation team. But on the flip side look at their hurlers, one Leinster title in the same time. So they're not taking over everything.
I take the point you are making about their ladies team, but ladies runs in cycles Kerry won 8 or 9 in a row in the 80's and 90's, Cork won 10 of 11 in the 00 and 10's and their camogie players won 8 or something similar but there ewas no talk of them being split. Again why should they. Those teams were recognised for being great etams at their times and lets allow that be celebrated.
We mentioned Cuala and their all irelands. Club success guarantees nothing. Galway clubs won multiple hurling and football club all irelands and haven't capitalised at county level, Crossmaglen have won 5 or 6 i believe but Armagh only 1 all ireland and 2 all ireland final appearances.
As i say money going into Dublin yes is an issue but its not the whole problem. Splitting Dublin solves nothing. Can we not accept that there's an exceptional bunch of players at present playing for them, some of the best to ever do it and move on.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 12/02/2021 09:42:02
2331150
Link
12
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "Not sure that's a very fair argument, like most things with these debates the big headline figure aren't really representative. Total population doesn't tell the whole story at Senior level. It's more about participation rates.
According to Shame Mangan
Dublin have 39k registered players from a population of 1.3mill.
Galway have 21.5k registered players from a population of 258k
Dublin still have more, but not ridiculously so, Cork for example come in at 33k, if the participation rates increased, I think we'd have a case to answer, but total population isn't reflective really of nuts and bolts of competitiveness.
The participation to total population figures are really interesting, Dublin would kill for participation of about 10% of total population like Galway. Kerry come in at about 10% today. It's brilliant stuff.
Dublin are about 2.6% of its total population. That's actually problem with GDF per registered player, the funding is for the total population, put people calculate on registered player to push an agenda, which as above is a very low ratio.
With the above ratios in mind, why do other counties want to follow the Dublin model? Other counties are doing participation and development better then us and have much better cultivated their population resources." I'm not sure which part of that post was unfair Username ?.... or strayed towards big headline figures ?...I never stated that having a large population was the only factor...but it is certainlty a factor and I was trying to be reasonable with the argument... I know the participation figures in Dublin are shockingly low and if they ever reached the 10% rate of Galway it would be fantastic for the health of game in the Capital ( not so much for the Inter County game )
My point was that if every County in Ireland raised their "off the field" standards ( admin, coaching, branding, sponsorship etc ) to a similar high level as Dublin or Kerry, then population numbers will surely be an advantage.... regardless of participation rates ?... surely you have more chances to find a Con O Callaghan ( or two !) if you are searching through 1.3 million people than if you are searching through 260,000 ?
If you agree with that then maybe you understand it's harder for smaller populated Counties to replace the "once in a lifetime" teams I was talking about ?
I think we have both agreed on here before about the Dublin funding/participation rates... it is mad to think the participation numbers are still so very low when so many millions have been spent in trying to improve that total....you are correct in pointing out why would other Counties want to follow that model.
Black+Blue (Galway) - Posts: 122 - 12/02/2021 09:57:38
2331152
Link
1
|
|
Replying To brian: "I see we've all been suitably lectured from the pulpit about the stages of grief ;)
Someone who's been in the anger stage of it for years probably shouldn't talk about being fully through it.... or have they even got to the anger stage or are they still at the throwing their toys out of the pram like a baby stage.
Anyways its good to see points being reasonably discussed.
Just addressing one of the points a poster made to me in terms of contradicting myself. Yes i understand where you're coming from on it. Forgive me if i made the point badly I'll try and expand. For years the Dublin GAA did nothing to bring people into the game across all codes and levels so given their population they should've always been close to winning all Ireland's. Until they put proper structures in place in they weren't maximising the return they were capable of. It still doesn't exclude the fact that this current mens team is a once on a generation team. But on the flip side look at their hurlers, one Leinster title in the same time. So they're not taking over everything.
I take the point you are making about their ladies team, but ladies runs in cycles Kerry won 8 or 9 in a row in the 80's and 90's, Cork won 10 of 11 in the 00 and 10's and their camogie players won 8 or something similar but there ewas no talk of them being split. Again why should they. Those teams were recognised for being great etams at their times and lets allow that be celebrated.
We mentioned Cuala and their all irelands. Club success guarantees nothing. Galway clubs won multiple hurling and football club all irelands and haven't capitalised at county level, Crossmaglen have won 5 or 6 i believe but Armagh only 1 all ireland and 2 all ireland final appearances.
As i say money going into Dublin yes is an issue but its not the whole problem. Splitting Dublin solves nothing. Can we not accept that there's an exceptional bunch of players at present playing for them, some of the best to ever do it and move on." Some1 give brian a big shovel for that hole he's digging :-)
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 12/02/2021 10:22:10
2331156
Link
2
|
|
Replying To brian: "I see we've all been suitably lectured from the pulpit about the stages of grief ;)
Someone who's been in the anger stage of it for years probably shouldn't talk about being fully through it.... or have they even got to the anger stage or are they still at the throwing their toys out of the pram like a baby stage.
Anyways its good to see points being reasonably discussed.
Just addressing one of the points a poster made to me in terms of contradicting myself. Yes i understand where you're coming from on it. Forgive me if i made the point badly I'll try and expand. For years the Dublin GAA did nothing to bring people into the game across all codes and levels so given their population they should've always been close to winning all Ireland's. Until they put proper structures in place in they weren't maximising the return they were capable of. It still doesn't exclude the fact that this current mens team is a once on a generation team. But on the flip side look at their hurlers, one Leinster title in the same time. So they're not taking over everything.
I take the point you are making about their ladies team, but ladies runs in cycles Kerry won 8 or 9 in a row in the 80's and 90's, Cork won 10 of 11 in the 00 and 10's and their camogie players won 8 or something similar but there ewas no talk of them being split. Again why should they. Those teams were recognised for being great etams at their times and lets allow that be celebrated.
We mentioned Cuala and their all irelands. Club success guarantees nothing. Galway clubs won multiple hurling and football club all irelands and haven't capitalised at county level, Crossmaglen have won 5 or 6 i believe but Armagh only 1 all ireland and 2 all ireland final appearances.
As i say money going into Dublin yes is an issue but its not the whole problem. Splitting Dublin solves nothing. Can we not accept that there's an exceptional bunch of players at present playing for them, some of the best to ever do it and move on." Well said Brian. While I would nt agree totally with you on Dublin hurling(I do believe they have improved big time in last 15 years winning a league and leinster and are a top tier team now) but you make a very good point on ladies football. Kerry did win 9 in a row and won one more after in 1993 but have nt won one since. Cork ladies also had great success but it seems to have gone back a little now and yes Crossmaglen Corofin etc. All good things come to an end. I do see the original point of splitting Dublin to give more players a chance to play intercounty (although I would nt be for it).but the calls now to split are for the wrong reasons as success never lasts. Kerry Kilkenny Liverpool Man U. A split Dublin would still be top contenders and as you stated before Brian its hard enough to beat one.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 12/02/2021 10:27:33
2331157
Link
1
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "Not sure that's a very fair argument, like most things with these debates the big headline figure aren't really representative. Total population doesn't tell the whole story at Senior level. It's more about participation rates.
According to Shame Mangan
Dublin have 39k registered players from a population of 1.3mill.
Galway have 21.5k registered players from a population of 258k
Dublin still have more, but not ridiculously so, Cork for example come in at 33k, if the participation rates increased, I think we'd have a case to answer, but total population isn't reflective really of nuts and bolts of competitiveness.
The participation to total population figures are really interesting, Dublin would kill for participation of about 10% of total population like Galway. Kerry come in at about 10% today. It's brilliant stuff.
Dublin are about 2.6% of its total population. That's actually problem with GDF per registered player, the funding is for the total population, put people calculate on registered player to push an agenda, which as above is a very low ratio.
With the above ratios in mind, why do other counties want to follow the Dublin model? Other counties are doing participation and development better then us and have much better cultivated their population resources." Agree Username. Of course the bigger the population the bigger the pick but it is playing population that matters most. Not much point havering 2 million people if they are all over 40 years of age. On the funding yes Dublin got more than everyone but yes if it was divided by population it would look as bad as registered player. Now although we don't agree fully on the gaa s money thing as I do think it was unfair and figures show that. However I believe since 2918 the figures are being done more fairly.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 12/02/2021 10:35:17
2331159
Link
1
|
|
Replying To brian: "I see we've all been suitably lectured from the pulpit about the stages of grief ;)
Someone who's been in the anger stage of it for years probably shouldn't talk about being fully through it.... or have they even got to the anger stage or are they still at the throwing their toys out of the pram like a baby stage.
Anyways its good to see points being reasonably discussed.
Just addressing one of the points a poster made to me in terms of contradicting myself. Yes i understand where you're coming from on it. Forgive me if i made the point badly I'll try and expand. For years the Dublin GAA did nothing to bring people into the game across all codes and levels so given their population they should've always been close to winning all Ireland's. Until they put proper structures in place in they weren't maximising the return they were capable of. It still doesn't exclude the fact that this current mens team is a once on a generation team. But on the flip side look at their hurlers, one Leinster title in the same time. So they're not taking over everything.
I take the point you are making about their ladies team, but ladies runs in cycles Kerry won 8 or 9 in a row in the 80's and 90's, Cork won 10 of 11 in the 00 and 10's and their camogie players won 8 or something similar but there ewas no talk of them being split. Again why should they. Those teams were recognised for being great etams at their times and lets allow that be celebrated.
We mentioned Cuala and their all irelands. Club success guarantees nothing. Galway clubs won multiple hurling and football club all irelands and haven't capitalised at county level, Crossmaglen have won 5 or 6 i believe but Armagh only 1 all ireland and 2 all ireland final appearances.
As i say money going into Dublin yes is an issue but its not the whole problem. Splitting Dublin solves nothing. Can we not accept that there's an exceptional bunch of players at present playing for them, some of the best to ever do it and move on." Good to have a bit of reasonable debate Brian, even if it's hard to not be always concerned about our own Counties.
Your reply about the Ladies football and Club Hurling is certainly true...
As Username mentioned above, maybe the Dublin funding/participation model is not the right model to follow and certainly needs to be discussed by our Headquarters to see if the many millions of investment have seen a required participation rate... I can't see it has myself on those figures available.
I'm not all about promoting a split of Dublin as I've also said maybe we should all be concentrating on the lowest 10/12 Counties instead of the top few all the time BUT I think like a lot of people I am very concerned about Dublins current and future dominance of Inter County Mens football ( our flagship competition )
The team that started winning the titles in 2011 was indeed a fantastic team... and the team that won this year's competition is also a fantastic team...but they are very different teams... I always felt that if you took Alan Brogan, Bernard Brogan, Paul Flynn, Jack McCaffery,Rory O Carroll, Denis Bastic etc etc out of that team then they would be goosed.... but they kept on wining.....then this year and last year we have seen very little or none of Kevin McMenamim, Michael Dara McCauley, Philly McMahon, Peadar Andrews, Paul Mannion, Cian O Sullivan, Brian Howard etc and yet they are winning by greater margins.... that's a whole team of players gone/finished/absent and it makes no apparent difference !!... thats the concern for all others and with Dublin having won 4 and lost 2 more u20/21 titkes in last 10 years the Conveyor belt looks very healthy..... traditionally most Counties have struggled to replace great teams but Dublin appear to have found a way around this problem and that's a worry for all.... and that's not Dublin bashing
Black+Blue (Galway) - Posts: 122 - 12/02/2021 10:47:13
2331161
Link
1
|
|
Replying To brian: "I see we've all been suitably lectured from the pulpit about the stages of grief ;)
Someone who's been in the anger stage of it for years probably shouldn't talk about being fully through it.... or have they even got to the anger stage or are they still at the throwing their toys out of the pram like a baby stage.
Anyways its good to see points being reasonably discussed.
Just addressing one of the points a poster made to me in terms of contradicting myself. Yes i understand where you're coming from on it. Forgive me if i made the point badly I'll try and expand. For years the Dublin GAA did nothing to bring people into the game across all codes and levels so given their population they should've always been close to winning all Ireland's. Until they put proper structures in place in they weren't maximising the return they were capable of. It still doesn't exclude the fact that this current mens team is a once on a generation team. But on the flip side look at their hurlers, one Leinster title in the same time. So they're not taking over everything.
I take the point you are making about their ladies team, but ladies runs in cycles Kerry won 8 or 9 in a row in the 80's and 90's, Cork won 10 of 11 in the 00 and 10's and their camogie players won 8 or something similar but there ewas no talk of them being split. Again why should they. Those teams were recognised for being great etams at their times and lets allow that be celebrated.
We mentioned Cuala and their all irelands. Club success guarantees nothing. Galway clubs won multiple hurling and football club all irelands and haven't capitalised at county level, Crossmaglen have won 5 or 6 i believe but Armagh only 1 all ireland and 2 all ireland final appearances.
As i say money going into Dublin yes is an issue but its not the whole problem. Splitting Dublin solves nothing. Can we not accept that there's an exceptional bunch of players at present playing for them, some of the best to ever do it and move on." Good to have a bit of reasonable debate Brian, even if it's hard to not be always concerned about our own Counties.
Your reply about the Ladies football and Club Hurling is certainly true...
As Username mentioned above, maybe the Dublin funding/participation model is not the right model to follow and certainly needs to be discussed by our Headquarters to see if the many millions of investment have seen a required participation rate... I can't see it has myself on those figures available.
I'm not all about promoting a split of Dublin as I've also said maybe we should all be concentrating on the lowest 10/12 Counties instead of the top few all the time BUT I think like a lot of people I am very concerned about Dublins current and future dominance of Inter County Mens football ( our flagship competition )
The team that started winning the titles in 2011 was indeed a fantastic team... and the team that won this year's competition is also a fantastic team...but they are very different teams... I always felt that if you took Alan Brogan, Bernard Brogan, Paul Flynn, Jack McCaffery,Rory O Carroll, Denis Bastic etc etc out of that team then they would be goosed.... but they kept on wining.....then this year and last year we have seen very little or none of Kevin McMenamim, Michael Dara McCauley, Philly McMahon, Peadar Andrews, Paul Mannion, Cian O Sullivan, Brian Howard etc and yet they are winning by greater margins.... that's a whole team of players gone/finished/absent and it makes no apparent difference !!... thats the concern for all others and with Dublin having won 4 and lost 2 more u20/21 titkes in last 10 years the Conveyor belt looks very healthy..... traditionally most Counties have struggled to replace great teams but Dublin appear to have found a way around this problem and that's a worry for all.... and that's not Dublin bashing
Black+Blue (Galway) - Posts: 122 - 12/02/2021 10:47:13
2331162
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Black+Blue: "I'm not sure which part of that post was unfair Username ?.... or strayed towards big headline figures ?...I never stated that having a large population was the only factor...but it is certainlty a factor and I was trying to be reasonable with the argument... I know the participation figures in Dublin are shockingly low and if they ever reached the 10% rate of Galway it would be fantastic for the health of game in the Capital ( not so much for the Inter County game )
My point was that if every County in Ireland raised their "off the field" standards ( admin, coaching, branding, sponsorship etc ) to a similar high level as Dublin or Kerry, then population numbers will surely be an advantage.... regardless of participation rates ?... surely you have more chances to find a Con O Callaghan ( or two !) if you are searching through 1.3 million people than if you are searching through 260,000 ?
If you agree with that then maybe you understand it's harder for smaller populated Counties to replace the "once in a lifetime" teams I was talking about ?
I think we have both agreed on here before about the Dublin funding/participation rates... it is mad to think the participation numbers are still so very low when so many millions have been spent in trying to improve that total....you are correct in pointing out why would other Counties want to follow that model." I dont think you say that population is an advantage regardless then participation rates. Its not like we're picking the best and telling the rest to go home and not participate. We can only pick form players playing the game. 97.3% of people don't play any for of GAA. Perhaps that figure may help to understand why GDF is required in Dublin as a priority for the GAA. I agree i think their is fair argument their to revue the cost benefit of the model as its been on the go for a while, if i wasnt from Dublin, im not so sure id want my county to follow the Dublin model to be honest.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/02/2021 10:53:27
2331165
Link
4
|
|
Replying To CiarraiMick: "Agree Username. Of course the bigger the population the bigger the pick but it is playing population that matters most. Not much point havering 2 million people if they are all over 40 years of age. On the funding yes Dublin got more than everyone but yes if it was divided by population it would look as bad as registered player. Now although we don't agree fully on the gaa s money thing as I do think it was unfair and figures show that. However I believe since 2918 the figures are being done more fairly." I think its a contradictory argument Mick, not by you but broadly - if you say Dublin has a big population and needs to be split, you cant have a problem with the funding of it. If you have a problem with funding by registered player, then you have to acknowledge Dublind have a pick of a small number of registered players to funding.
We wont agree on the funding, but i would query the effectiveness of the Dublin model, there just hasnt been the surge in participation number for the outlay. I would be open to a review of it because no one inside or outside the County wants to see that money not being effective. Especially if the rest of the country are looking for the GAA to roll the model out in their county's which seems the case.
As ive said before if participation rates surge to a level, i can see the logic and arguments of splits etc - i think everyone knows thats not the case at the moment though and likely decades away at which point id expect Dublin to have fallen on their backside a good few times. Culturally id always protest a split and do all in my personal power to protest and object, but id logically accept if we had 100k participating and Galway 20k, then that would be unfair.
The essential irony really is that all the funding for games development, might just kill us in the end if it really bit.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/02/2021 11:03:13
2331168
Link
5
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "I think its a contradictory argument Mick, not by you but broadly - if you say Dublin has a big population and needs to be split, you cant have a problem with the funding of it. If you have a problem with funding by registered player, then you have to acknowledge Dublind have a pick of a small number of registered players to funding.
We wont agree on the funding, but i would query the effectiveness of the Dublin model, there just hasnt been the surge in participation number for the outlay. I would be open to a review of it because no one inside or outside the County wants to see that money not being effective. Especially if the rest of the country are looking for the GAA to roll the model out in their county's which seems the case.
As ive said before if participation rates surge to a level, i can see the logic and arguments of splits etc - i think everyone knows thats not the case at the moment though and likely decades away at which point id expect Dublin to have fallen on their backside a good few times. Culturally id always protest a split and do all in my personal power to protest and object, but id logically accept if we had 100k participating and Galway 20k, then that would be unfair.
The essential irony really is that all the funding for games development, might just kill us in the end if it really bit." I agree with you on the participation figures 100% Username. Dublin have only 5000 more registered players than Cork. Now while I know that's alot for some counties but if Kilmacud were out of the map (5000 members) then Dublin's numbers the same as Cork. Yes I also agree people use the figures to suit their argument.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3676 - 12/02/2021 11:26:04
2331171
Link
2
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "I dont think you say that population is an advantage regardless then participation rates. Its not like we're picking the best and telling the rest to go home and not participate. We can only pick form players playing the game. 97.3% of people don't play any for of GAA. Perhaps that figure may help to understand why GDF is required in Dublin as a priority for the GAA. I agree i think their is fair argument their to revue the cost benefit of the model as its been on the go for a while, if i wasnt from Dublin, im not so sure id want my county to follow the Dublin model to be honest." Sure to return your quote back Username ... we can only pick from players playing the game as well... 90% of people in Galway dont play any GAA...surely that figure may understand why GDF is required in Galway as a priority of the GAA !
Is there a reasonable case to freeze all development funding into Dublin immediately untill a full and thorough review is completed ?...AND to find out where and how the €18-€20 million has actually been spent over last few years ? With registration figures in Dublin hovering around 40k it would appear to have been a shockingly wasted use of money ?....surely its no different than the money wasted here in Galway over last decade but we have been castigated Nationally about it rather than applauded.
Black+Blue (Galway) - Posts: 122 - 12/02/2021 12:11:51
2331177
Link
1
|