National Forum

Monaghan And Cavan Amalgamation

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Doesn't that apply to all major cities in Ireland now though? Here in Galway there is little community unity,, the city is as divided as it has ever been in my lifetime."
No because geographically Dublin is almost entirely urban as a county, whereas other counties may have large towns or cities, but they only cover a small area of the whole county.

Dublin has always had a north south cultural divide, it makes no sense for them to consider themselves as one county. There isn't anything comparable to it in the rest of the country.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 07/12/2020 20:46:05    2319983

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While I wouldn't be in favor of forcing Dublin in spilting r in counties joining I sure there are players in Dublin who wouldn't mind.
With the population Dublin has there has to be top players who are not playing County football. Spilting Dublin would give more players a chance to play county but only if it could be done fair.
This talk about Dublin being too big and too dominant is only a smoke screen for football just being at a poor quality with Dublin being the only good team around at the moment.
We were spoilt in the 90s and 00s with great teams like Dublin down meath Galway armagh tyrone and kerry.
We also had good teams like mayo derry wexford kildare offaly cork donegal and all able to beat anyone on a given day the problem now is Dublin are very good very one else is poor. until other counties get their act together this will continue.

Cavan/monaghan never.

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 307 - 07/12/2020 20:46:51    2319984

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Replying To tom84:  "While I wouldn't be in favor of forcing Dublin in spilting r in counties joining I sure there are players in Dublin who wouldn't mind.
With the population Dublin has there has to be top players who are not playing County football. Spilting Dublin would give more players a chance to play county but only if it could be done fair.
This talk about Dublin being too big and too dominant is only a smoke screen for football just being at a poor quality with Dublin being the only good team around at the moment.
We were spoilt in the 90s and 00s with great teams like Dublin down meath Galway armagh tyrone and kerry.
We also had good teams like mayo derry wexford kildare offaly cork donegal and all able to beat anyone on a given day the problem now is Dublin are very good very one else is poor. until other counties get their act together this will continue.

Cavan/monaghan never."
Your argument doesn't have any merit.

Every inter county team today would trounce their counterparts from 10-20 years ago.
Westmeath today would hammer the westmeath team that last won Leinster.
Similarly the Cavan of today would hammer the team of 1997.

The fact is football has never been at a higher standard. The setup in many counties has become so professional with the input of nutrition and sports science that teams from the past just would not be able physically live with modern teams.

So no, football hasn't declined in standard at all, in fact it has vastly improved. What has happened is that one team has been financially turbo charged to take advantage of the rest.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 07/12/2020 21:02:19    2319993

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "Please show us a map of how would split Dublin into 6. I think some you lads just want to wear a blindfold and drawn random lines on a map."
North south east and west then have fingal and tallagh separate teams. After all tallagh has a bigger population than a lot of counties in the country and fingal with a population off 300 000 it dosent take a genius to work it out. Try it yourself there I'm sure ya can get 6 inter county teams out of 1.3 million.

Irishcelt (Wicklow) - Posts: 149 - 07/12/2020 21:08:11    2319997

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "No because geographically Dublin is almost entirely urban as a county, whereas other counties may have large towns or cities, but they only cover a small area of the whole county.

Dublin has always had a north south cultural divide, it makes no sense for them to consider themselves as one county. There isn't anything comparable to it in the rest of the country."
Define cultural divide though. What are the specific parameters. There must be at least 10 if not 20 languages spoken in galway,, thousands of people from varying nationalities, origins.
I see your point regarding Dublin being a completely urban county but I don't think galway being largely rural means we're all the one.
Evrn in sporting terms there's a big divide, North galway football,, South galway hurling etc.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1279 - 07/12/2020 21:17:21    2320001

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MonaCav, Ireland's own tax haven

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2323 - 07/12/2020 21:26:53    2320009

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I agree, junior intermediate and senior All Irelands, look at the joy clubs get from winning a junior title, they know they will never be able to compete with the senior clubs, it also gives the junior and intermediate players a better chance of being called up to the county team if they are good enough.
Maybe Dublin could be divided in 2 but that would take a lot of figuring out, I'm not sure it's a great idea anyway, Kerry Tyrone Mayo Donegal Galway Cork etc have the potential to beat Dublin in the next few years, Mayo might even do it in 2 weeks time and the rest of us will be chomping at the bit to get going again in 2021 to give a better account of ourselves.
Spread the money around better and apply a few rule changes to make the game better, get rid of the mark, I hate it, it's turning us into Aussie rules."
Agree with you there, maybe open draw between top 2 divisions and another for bottom 2. This idea of amalgamation only leaves less football for our best players. Can't handicap Dublin because they're winning so much. Barcelona, Phil Taylor, Steve Davis, O Sullivan , all winners . You'd rather play Dublin not half of Dublin.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1274 - 07/12/2020 21:56:36    2320024

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "Your argument doesn't have any merit.

Every inter county team today would trounce their counterparts from 10-20 years ago.
Westmeath today would hammer the westmeath team that last won Leinster.
Similarly the Cavan of today would hammer the team of 1997.

The fact is football has never been at a higher standard. The setup in many counties has become so professional with the input of nutrition and sports science that teams from the past just would not be able physically live with modern teams.

So no, football hasn't declined in standard at all, in fact it has vastly improved. What has happened is that one team has been financially turbo charged to take advantage of the rest."
The cavan of today would not happen cavan of 97 that is just nonsense. They are fitted and hve better training techniques but the 97 team were better footballers.

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 307 - 07/12/2020 22:21:48    2320030

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "No it isn't.

Dublin has no community spirit by virtue of the fact that it's a city. Many people in Dublin have never met nor spoken to their next door neighbours. There is also a massive cultural divide between north and south, that is further reflected in education with a public/private school divide.

There are several good reasons to split Dublin, the main one being the lack of a unified Dublin identity."
Your talking rubbish

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2823 - 07/12/2020 23:35:56    2320061

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Replying To Irishcelt:  "North south east and west then have fingal and tallagh separate teams. After all tallagh has a bigger population than a lot of counties in the country and fingal with a population off 300 000 it dosent take a genius to work it out. Try it yourself there I'm sure ya can get 6 inter county teams out of 1.3 million."
Tallaght only has 3 clubs and is a soccer stronghold. Spliitting Dublin in 6 is stupid.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 595 - 08/12/2020 02:28:28    2320079

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "MonaCav, Ireland's own tax haven"
They can handle the 'imports'. We'll look after the money end.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4698 - 08/12/2020 08:19:11    2320092

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Replying To cavanman47:  "They can handle the 'imports'. We'll look after the money end."
Harry Redknapp for CEO ;-)

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2323 - 08/12/2020 09:47:07    2320109

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Harry Redknapp for CEO ;-)"
No need. .The Banty would buy and sell 'Arry!

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4698 - 08/12/2020 09:54:50    2320115

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Whats the bigger issue here is , if some sort of parity and fairness isn't reached the game of football will collapse and whats happening in Leinster will spread to the rest of the country.
to put it into context Swords alone has a population greater than 100,000 alone.
It would be naive of anyone to think Avonmore in Kilkenny or Kerry group in Kerry werent giving those great teams the resources they needed to succeed.
as highlighted on the Sunday Gave per registered player Dublin is getting 4 to 6 times more funding that other counties.
Pat Gilroy's argument was it needed more funding between the canals to develop the game, and many hundreds of thousands in dublin weren't playing the game, this may be the case but many of the same people hes talking about unfortunately need human basic needs first sport second, he knows this too.
If the GAA were to take that approach based on population we should be channeling millions into London and New York as millions of people there arent playing the game either, and both teams doing poorly.


Look if youd like to reply please keep it to the topic, please dont make it personal, turf muncher nonsense etc.
And before I get nailed no offence intended to the disadvantaged areas of Dublin needing basic needs first, sadly this is a fact in our society today, not just Dublin but countrywide.

club51 (Mayo) - Posts: 395 - 08/12/2020 09:55:51    2320116

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Replying To cavanman47:  "No need. .The Banty would buy and sell 'Arry!"
Whit who's money

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 969 - 08/12/2020 10:25:55    2320123

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Replying To club51:  "Whats the bigger issue here is , if some sort of parity and fairness isn't reached the game of football will collapse and whats happening in Leinster will spread to the rest of the country.
to put it into context Swords alone has a population greater than 100,000 alone.
It would be naive of anyone to think Avonmore in Kilkenny or Kerry group in Kerry werent giving those great teams the resources they needed to succeed.
as highlighted on the Sunday Gave per registered player Dublin is getting 4 to 6 times more funding that other counties.
Pat Gilroy's argument was it needed more funding between the canals to develop the game, and many hundreds of thousands in dublin weren't playing the game, this may be the case but many of the same people hes talking about unfortunately need human basic needs first sport second, he knows this too.
If the GAA were to take that approach based on population we should be channeling millions into London and New York as millions of people there arent playing the game either, and both teams doing poorly.


Look if youd like to reply please keep it to the topic, please dont make it personal, turf muncher nonsense etc.
And before I get nailed no offence intended to the disadvantaged areas of Dublin needing basic needs first, sadly this is a fact in our society today, not just Dublin but countrywide."
His ascertion that there's no football for those between the canals is utter nonsense.

There are very few clubs and pitches between the canals (as land is either built on or incredible expensive, or earmarked for more essential needs) but there is nothing to stop a young guy or girl from Dorset St heading up to Whitehall, Glasnevin or out the Navan Road to join any of 5 senior clubs. Each would represent a shorter distance than I covered when I played for my local team in Cavan and all are served by public transport.

There are junior clubs even closer than this too.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4698 - 08/12/2020 10:32:15    2320129

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I think these 'pundits' are all looking in the wrong direction.

We don't need to look at reducing the top level but improving the lower levels. The GAA has lost it's way a bit in trying to get as much out of the top few as possible (Super Eights etc) in the short term instead of having a long-term plan that would benefit all.

All counties have the right to compete for Sam every year and all counties need more Championship matches every year to improve the standards.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 492 - 08/12/2020 10:34:28    2320131

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Replying To cavanman47:  "His ascertion that there's no football for those between the canals is utter nonsense.

There are very few clubs and pitches between the canals (as land is either built on or incredible expensive, or earmarked for more essential needs) but there is nothing to stop a young guy or girl from Dorset St heading up to Whitehall, Glasnevin or out the Navan Road to join any of 5 senior clubs. Each would represent a shorter distance than I covered when I played for my local team in Cavan and all are served by public transport.

There are junior clubs even closer than this too."
fantastic point, Mcantee offered very little in the way of a response

club51 (Mayo) - Posts: 395 - 08/12/2020 10:54:06    2320140

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "Your argument doesn't have any merit.

Every inter county team today would trounce their counterparts from 10-20 years ago.
Westmeath today would hammer the westmeath team that last won Leinster.
Similarly the Cavan of today would hammer the team of 1997.

The fact is football has never been at a higher standard. The setup in many counties has become so professional with the input of nutrition and sports science that teams from the past just would not be able physically live with modern teams.

So no, football hasn't declined in standard at all, in fact it has vastly improved. What has happened is that one team has been financially turbo charged to take advantage of the rest."
I agree that today's teams would beat their counterparts from yesteryear but I've been following gaelic football since 1997 and I don't think it's as enjoyable as it used to be.
Footballers have been replaced by athletes. I think the Gooch himself once said if he was starting out today its unlikely he'd be get a call up to Inter County due to his slight build.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1279 - 08/12/2020 11:19:12    2320155

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The solution for the Dublin question for me is simple. I would like to see Dublin's underage teams officially split into North and South Dublin (they already do this at under 14 level) and both teams ply in Leinster competitions al the way to under 20s. Dublin have two panels all the way up to minor level anyway, this makes things official. If the seniors have go on to dominate the next decade like this then you have the next crop of players who have played for North/South Dublin the whole time and it is a smoother transition. This benefits Dublin underage and also levels the playing field in Leinster and All Ireland underage competitions. I can't see many negatives to it?

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 562 - 08/12/2020 11:51:43    2320170

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