National Forum

Monaghan And Cavan Amalgamation

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I see we should join forces with the Ulster Champions and our nearest and dearest neighbours Cavan according to Pat Gilroy on the Sunday Game last night - sure we are exactly the same people based on his observations from DCU! I thought it was funny that Pat picked Monaghan V Cavan as an example given that he knows full well the opposition that such a proposal would receive. The Dubs will do absolutely anything to divert attention away from the absolute necessity at this stage to break them up into at least four teams!

While we would all prefer to retain our county boundaries (including Dublin's) if their continued success if not addressed urgently it will lead to the ultimate demise of Gaelic football very quickly. With an average winning margin of 17 points in this year's championship, surely it is clear for all to see that something urgent is required. A Dublin team divided into four would still see each team at the larger end of the population but surely it would lead to a much more competitive championship and even greater participation in gaelic games within the capital.

Maybe Pat Gilroy is correct and in time such a structure would become uncompetitive also and need to be reviewed further due to urbanisation but surely splitting Dublin would result in success been more equally enjoyed among the Dublin teams, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, Galway, Cork, Tyrone, Meath, Kildare while also providing renewed hope to other counties such as Monaghan, Cavan, Tipperary, Roscommon, Armagh and many others over the next 10 years.

While I would have a lot of sympathy for Dublin supporters if their county were to be broken up, I think it is the only way to address their dominance at this stage. Perhaps it would also be a good idea to combine such a move with an open championship draw and to do away with the Provincial Championships. One thing is for sure, change is required and required urgently. (I'm off to think what a Monaghan/Cavan starting 15 might look like - LOL)

OrielPower (Monaghan) - Posts: 107 - 07/12/2020 15:53:15    2319808

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As Kieran Cunningham said on Twitter - if there's any hint of Donegal and Tyrone amalgamating, I'm emigrating ;-)

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 07/12/2020 16:16:01    2319829

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Alternatively Monaghan could join with Louth to save any bickering, and Cavan could join up with Longford

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2518 - 07/12/2020 16:25:10    2319837

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There is no point Gilroy talking about a blank sheet of paper. There are red lines and we all know there are. A Cavan and Monaghan amalgamation is simply unthinkable.

Gilroy did something quite impressive. He spoke utter rubbish but made it sound intelligent with a few buzz words.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 534 - 07/12/2020 16:26:37    2319839

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Replying To OrielPower:  "I see we should join forces with the Ulster Champions and our nearest and dearest neighbours Cavan according to Pat Gilroy on the Sunday Game last night - sure we are exactly the same people based on his observations from DCU! I thought it was funny that Pat picked Monaghan V Cavan as an example given that he knows full well the opposition that such a proposal would receive. The Dubs will do absolutely anything to divert attention away from the absolute necessity at this stage to break them up into at least four teams!

While we would all prefer to retain our county boundaries (including Dublin's) if their continued success if not addressed urgently it will lead to the ultimate demise of Gaelic football very quickly. With an average winning margin of 17 points in this year's championship, surely it is clear for all to see that something urgent is required. A Dublin team divided into four would still see each team at the larger end of the population but surely it would lead to a much more competitive championship and even greater participation in gaelic games within the capital.

Maybe Pat Gilroy is correct and in time such a structure would become uncompetitive also and need to be reviewed further due to urbanisation but surely splitting Dublin would result in success been more equally enjoyed among the Dublin teams, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, Galway, Cork, Tyrone, Meath, Kildare while also providing renewed hope to other counties such as Monaghan, Cavan, Tipperary, Roscommon, Armagh and many others over the next 10 years.

While I would have a lot of sympathy for Dublin supporters if their county were to be broken up, I think it is the only way to address their dominance at this stage. Perhaps it would also be a good idea to combine such a move with an open championship draw and to do away with the Provincial Championships. One thing is for sure, change is required and required urgently. (I'm off to think what a Monaghan/Cavan starting 15 might look like - LOL)"
Change is 100% required and I enjoyed your post. However in the same way you'd be horrified at the thought of Monaghan football with it's local history, pride and generations disappearing, we have to accept Dublin GAA is very important to Dublin people; this love and pride goes back generations. When a council in Ireland tries to bring a community into it's boundary there is uproar; county boundaries are very important to Irish people. We only have to look at the situation in Roscommon/Mayo to see how deep communuty goes especially in a GAA context.

I wouldn't ever agree with spitting Dublin in two unless Dublin GAA and it's people wanted this to happen for whatever reason; it should never be forced on them.

It doesn't mean I think something shouldn't happen if Dublin continue to dominate; that may be funding cuts, funding increases, competition reforms, investment in facilities etc in problem areas - the GAA's biggest strength is it's sense of belonging, it is the main reason GAA games are the national sports and people take great pride in where they're from. Drawing a line and saying you longer belong there in a GAA context is not and should never be the answer.

But yes it's likely another solution needs to be found to save football if we're in the same situation in 5 years.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 943 - 07/12/2020 16:27:58    2319840

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "As Kieran Cunningham said on Twitter - if there's any hint of Donegal and Tyrone amalgamating, I'm emigrating ;-)"
Of course it would be Donegal/Derry and Tyrone/Armagh!!

Rodeo (Mayo) - Posts: 2 - 07/12/2020 16:29:39    2319841

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Is this the fourth or fifth thread dedicated to the same subject? I've lost count.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 566 - 07/12/2020 16:38:35    2319845

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Replying To Rodeo:  "Of course it would be Donegal/Derry and Tyrone/Armagh!!"
Haha dhia whatever about ourselves and Derry, you'd sell tickets for people to see the first meeting suggesting that Tyrone and Armagh join up!

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 07/12/2020 16:49:31    2319853

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "There is no point Gilroy talking about a blank sheet of paper. There are red lines and we all know there are. A Cavan and Monaghan amalgamation is simply unthinkable.

Gilroy did something quite impressive. He spoke utter rubbish but made it sound intelligent with a few buzz words."
Gilroy is a successful businessman but nothing about him last night was impressive

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 07/12/2020 16:52:16    2319855

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "There is no point Gilroy talking about a blank sheet of paper. There are red lines and we all know there are. A Cavan and Monaghan amalgamation is simply unthinkable.

Gilroy did something quite impressive. He spoke utter rubbish but made it sound intelligent with a few buzz words."
Dublin split into 2/4 is simply unthinkable and unacceptable

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2823 - 07/12/2020 16:53:42    2319858

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Replying To Rodeo:  "Of course it would be Donegal/Derry and Tyrone/Armagh!!"
It would definitely be Donegal and Tyrone,Tir Eoghain and Tir Connaill. O'Neill and O'Donnell played together fairly often and often had a few battles between themselves.No connection with Derry,maybe for a soccer team with Derry City and Innishowen.Can't wait,the sky pundits would probably be joint managers.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 834 - 07/12/2020 17:05:51    2319863

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Gilroys contribution was the greatest waste of time and was belittling to many other countries. Instead of looking in at Dublin, he just threw it out to everyone else to sort themselves Monaghan and Cavan was comical. Kerry and cork less so even though he tried to be funny with it.
Derry supporters don't even get behind their own county to imagine them joined up elsewhere.

If that's the best they can do, maybe it's time we all lost interest and let the Dubs play with their own ball.

TheJackel (Monaghan) - Posts: 15 - 07/12/2020 17:09:09    2319865

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Cavonaghan or Monvan?

Morty (Westmeath) - Posts: 209 - 07/12/2020 17:15:05    2319867

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I don't get the whole "Dublin should split" idea.

If people think population advantages need to be addressed, then why stop at Dublin?

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1297 - 07/12/2020 17:16:27    2319869

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Replying To sam1884:  "Change is 100% required and I enjoyed your post. However in the same way you'd be horrified at the thought of Monaghan football with it's local history, pride and generations disappearing, we have to accept Dublin GAA is very important to Dublin people; this love and pride goes back generations. When a council in Ireland tries to bring a community into it's boundary there is uproar; county boundaries are very important to Irish people. We only have to look at the situation in Roscommon/Mayo to see how deep communuty goes especially in a GAA context.

I wouldn't ever agree with spitting Dublin in two unless Dublin GAA and it's people wanted this to happen for whatever reason; it should never be forced on them.

It doesn't mean I think something shouldn't happen if Dublin continue to dominate; that may be funding cuts, funding increases, competition reforms, investment in facilities etc in problem areas - the GAA's biggest strength is it's sense of belonging, it is the main reason GAA games are the national sports and people take great pride in where they're from. Drawing a line and saying you longer belong there in a GAA context is not and should never be the answer.

But yes it's likely another solution needs to be found to save football if we're in the same situation in 5 years."
Totally agree - it would have to be a decision taken after considerable conversation and a vote by the existing 32 counties. Maybe at the next congress - I wonder what way that would go!

On a serious note though it would be a big move for the GAA and I am sure disappoint a lot of Dublin GAA folk leading to even greater Dublin/Anyone But Dublin rivalry. But i think even most Dub supporters agree change is necessary

OrielPower (Monaghan) - Posts: 107 - 07/12/2020 17:18:00    2319870

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "There is no point Gilroy talking about a blank sheet of paper. There are red lines and we all know there are. A Cavan and Monaghan amalgamation is simply unthinkable.

Gilroy did something quite impressive. He spoke utter rubbish but made it sound intelligent with a few buzz words."
I think what he did is suggest that we look to strengthen quality rather than dilute it. He is absolutely right. Pool resources rather than leaving Leitrim, Carlow, Wicklow...in the doldrums where young fellas have no realistic chance of winning trophies. I think it will likely end up there. Do you split up Dublin, Mayo, Kerry to bring the standard down a couple of levels to make it more competitive or do you merge smaller counties to pool resources and make it more competitive. As Gilroy said, money won't fix it and there will be a continual drain of talent to Dublin for higher paying jobs.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4497 - 07/12/2020 17:22:19    2319874

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Replying To wexico15:  "Gilroy is a successful businessman but nothing about him last night was impressive"
Ah I don't know, his ability to constantly talk over everyone (much to Des Cahill's delight it has to be said) and rattle on and on without actually saying anything worthwhile was impressive.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 07/12/2020 17:57:27    2319892

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I wouldn't agree with splitting or amalgamation of any counties. I do think the idea of funding needs to be looked at though.

Every county should receive the exact same amount of funding per head of registered players. Now that causes an issue as you may have have counties getting clubs to register their grannies So they can play ;)

Sponsorship, revenue from jerseys sales could be pooled like in American Football but a lot would need to be ironed out and I'm still not sure how it would work.

For example JP McManus has done wonders for Limerick GAA but would he want his money helping rival teams?

Some counties like my own have massive supporter fundraising machines...that really click into gear in the build up to an all Ireland final...how would that work if counties were not allowed to pull in extra cash for themselves?

The running costs the longer you stay in the championship increase dramatically. Logistics and accommodation being the real money burner.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10999 - 07/12/2020 18:20:04    2319902

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Replying To Joxer:  "I think what he did is suggest that we look to strengthen quality rather than dilute it. He is absolutely right. Pool resources rather than leaving Leitrim, Carlow, Wicklow...in the doldrums where young fellas have no realistic chance of winning trophies. I think it will likely end up there. Do you split up Dublin, Mayo, Kerry to bring the standard down a couple of levels to make it more competitive or do you merge smaller counties to pool resources and make it more competitive. As Gilroy said, money won't fix it and there will be a continual drain of talent to Dublin for higher paying jobs."
The weaker counties would have a better chance with a tiered system. Fermanagh Ladies won a Junior All Ireland at weekend. Armagh won Junior Camogie All Ireland. Both by a goal so it wasn't like they were way too good for that level. Do you think they give a damn that it was Junior?
What is it with men's football that we accept tiers at club level but not at inter county?
Tiered system needs to come in as soon as possible. I hear some players from weaker counties still want to play for Sam. Well tough. If you want to play for the big prize, prove yourself.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 534 - 07/12/2020 18:31:51    2319907

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "There is no point Gilroy talking about a blank sheet of paper. There are red lines and we all know there are. A Cavan and Monaghan amalgamation is simply unthinkable.

Gilroy did something quite impressive. He spoke utter rubbish but made it sound intelligent with a few buzz words."
.
No he didn't, it was the kind of rubbish that exemplifies the output of RTE News & Sport.

However the amalgamation idea brings to mind the possibly apocryphal tale about the first joint meeting of 2 east Galway clubs that had merged. A senior member of one club, a priest no less, made a speech about the need to pull together - let bygones be bygones etc. The former chairman of the 2nd club rose and replied " Well thanks for that Fr but I have to say that's the kind of Sh*** that sickens my h***."

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 290 - 07/12/2020 18:55:21    2319918

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