National Forum

Football Is Finished

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I genuinely think the simplest solution is make the league the championship with no finals, just the top team is the winner.Each county then has meaningful games against teams of a similar level and a chance at silverware and a chance to be promoted. I think Dublin s dominance would be greatly reduced ( without resorting to splitting or defunding) by them playing 7 games with 3/4 away. If for example Dublin were away to Donegal,Tyrone and Donegal in the league then it would be a very open competition. Dublin would still win 4/5 per decade but that happens in most sports. No problem.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 691 - 07/12/2020 19:31:55    2319938

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Just want to say that I dont want dublin split and I dont want amalgamations of any counties.

You play for your county not part of your county. Not so long ago galway were really struggling but no player would have ever wanted to amalgamated with any of the other counties and if we ever were dominating I'd hate to see us split in a north v west situation the rivalry there very much exists and its horrible and detrimental to the county splitting the county would make it even nastier. I wouldnt like to see a north v south Dublin

The GAA needs to help the weaker counties. The ones with decent size population (eg meath) surely can be helped but why is the GAA ignoring this

The GAA hours interview with tom ryan was actually disturbing . The fact he was surprised that someone said the leinster championship is a waste of time. It is and the fact that the director general is unaware of this is baffling. And when asked what was in place to help the struggling counties there wasnt one . Apparently it's already in place - scary stuff

galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1453 - 07/12/2020 20:47:21    2319986

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "I genuinely think the simplest solution is make the league the championship with no finals, just the top team is the winner.Each county then has meaningful games against teams of a similar level and a chance at silverware and a chance to be promoted. I think Dublin s dominance would be greatly reduced ( without resorting to splitting or defunding) by them playing 7 games with 3/4 away. If for example Dublin were away to Donegal,Tyrone and Donegal in the league then it would be a very open competition. Dublin would still win 4/5 per decade but that happens in most sports. No problem."
Best idea I've heard. Fair play.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1098 - 07/12/2020 20:57:58    2319988

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Replying To kevin03:  "If Dublin win this year they will have won 8 AI this decade. Crickey Tyone and Kerry were fighting for team of the decade when they had only won 3/4 AIs."
So they do use the expression "crikey" in Tyrone afterall!

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1098 - 07/12/2020 20:58:58    2319989

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "There was no outcry because they were youngsters and a different team came every year. May I remind you I did nt hear any outcry either when Dublin won 5 in a row. I hear rumblings now alright I admit. People know minors won't last as. Srniorsvare different. For what's it's worth I think this is a storm in a tea cup. Things change quickly. We all know that."
What would you call the programme done by Prime Time a week or so after the win in 2019. You should also have a read of some of the posts by some your fellow county men

Liffeylad (Dublin) - Posts: 38 - 07/12/2020 21:01:44    2319992

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Get rid of the mark and black card are the first things that need to happen they are ruining the game.

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 292 - 07/12/2020 21:04:09    2319995

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I did not read Brogans comments but if true it a good example of ignorance. If he was playing for Leitrim, or indeed many other counties and worked twice as hard as he has claimed to have done he would still never have won an AI. Dublin are well organized with very good players being well financed. Some of their clubs have a bigger pick than most of the counties in the country. With their pick, finance, organisation and numbers they could put out two out of the top 3 teams in the country at any given time. Now many counties incl. Meath have totally neglected underage with guys coaching/in charge who were many levels below the standard required.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2201 - 06/12/2020 21:36:26
Saying some clubs in Dublin have bigger pick than most counties is completely false and lies

It can be denied repeatedly but the facts are clear, and they show that Dublin have a number of huge advantages over every other county, not just in funding. They are sponsored officially by AIG who previously sponsored Man Utd. Their near neighbours, from a very wealthy county, are sponsored by a sliced ham company. The funding generated by the huge support base within the capital allows them to be a professional team by any measure. Players who have work commitments that will not allow them to be available on a more or less full time basis have to drop out, no matter how talented they may be. Dr Jack for example. Contrast that with county boards who are warning their players not to swap jerseys at the end of games because they cannot afford to replace them. Then you have Croke Park, the home ground of Dublin. A unique surface to any other pitch which on which Dublin play the vast majority of their games. Was it 1 or 2 championship games that Bernard Brogan played outside of Croke Park during his long stint with the team?
This is an advantage that cannot be denied. martinjoe (Mayo) - Posts: 433 - 07/12/2020 07:40:06
Dublin are sponsored by a large company AIG. And? Kerry are sponsored by Kerry Group a very large company, Mayo by Elverys who are a big company etc.
The sliced ham company that sponsors that neighbour gives that county plenty of sponsorship. they certainly cant play a poor mouth around that deal.
There is plenty of other counties who's players are in jobs that allow them to train extensively and are essentially semi professional players.

Then there is the maxim "the big teams get the big calls" when it comes to officiating. Nowhere is this more clearly visibly than in the great RTE documentary "All Ireland Day" from 2017. Link here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhNzf31pgc0
It shows, starting in the 9th minute, the match officials for the final being prepped in Croke Park 4 days before the final V Kerry. The Dublin presenters of the event proceed to show the ref videos of a number of incidents from earlier games and ask him for his opinion on them. The incidents shown involve fouls on Kerry players, 1 a very late challenge, the other a trip. The presenter is very keen to downplay the seriousness of the challenges. What could the officials take away from that presentation? Do not be giving frees to Kerry unless you are very sure and be very reluctant to give cards. Surely in the interests of fairness clips shown to give examples of incidents should not have included either of the teams playing the final a few days later. In the subsequent game the ref claimed not to have seen what Kerry claimed was a red card offence. Then move on to match day itself, the ref, on arrival is greeted by the great and the good legends of Dublin football from the past. I am not in any way questioning the integrity of the ref, but we are all human and it would be very hard for him not to feel pressurised. I wonder, with covid and all, will the ref for this year's final be summoned to a presentation before this year's final? I will not bother going into the overturning of punishments on the back of the odd red card that is issued, was there another one last week?
martinjoe (Mayo) - Posts: 433 - 07/12/2020 07:40:06
And Mayo dont get benefit from officials in other games?
Thats extreme paranoia about the officials and that presentation.

Football is finished because Dublin is now dominant and have done 5 in a row and going for a possible 6. How was this issue not raised when the Kerry minors did 5 in a row. How did county managers motivate their teams to turn up for training and go out to play against this Kerry team they had no chance of beating. How did the small counties encourage their teams to keep playing against a team with a bigger population and more money at their disposal. The fact is they did and teams did keep trying and eventually Kerry were beaten. The problem here is that Kerry thought that this hugely successful minor team would progress to senior level and topple the Dubs and the Kerry dominance begin again. How many Kerry people on here would have an issue if it was Kerry going for 6 in a row??
Winning is a bit like respect, it has to be earned not demanded.
Liffeylad (Dublin) - Posts: 15 - 07/12/2020 12:58:18
Minor is completely different to senior though. At least half the players from a previous year will be overage every single year. Its completely different to senior level. Its a completely different point to success at senior level.

I genuinely think the simplest solution is make the league the championship with no finals, just the top team is the winner.Each county then has meaningful games against teams of a similar level and a chance at silverware and a chance to be promoted. I think Dublin s dominance would be greatly reduced ( without resorting to splitting or defunding) by them playing 7 games with 3/4 away. If for example Dublin were away to Donegal,Tyrone and Donegal in the league then it would be a very open competition. Dublin would still win 4/5 per decade but that happens in most sports. No problem.
Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 677 - 07/12/2020 19:31:55
I wouldnt say make the league the championship but the league should be removed and championship become league based with playoffs and have a provincial and all ireland straight knock out cups on top of it.

Just want to say that I dont want dublin split and I dont want amalgamations of any counties.
You play for your county not part of your county. Not so long ago galway were really struggling but no player would have ever wanted to amalgamated with any of the other counties and if we ever were dominating I'd hate to see us split in a north v west situation the rivalry there very much exists and its horrible and detrimental to the county splitting the county would make it even nastier. I wouldnt like to see a north v south Dublin
The GAA needs to help the weaker counties. The ones with decent size population (eg meath) surely can be helped but why is the GAA ignoring this
The GAA hours interview with tom ryan was actually disturbing . The fact he was surprised that someone said the leinster championship is a waste of time. It is and the fact that the director general is unaware of this is baffling. And when asked what was in place to help the struggling counties there wasnt one . Apparently it's already in place - scary stuff
galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1233 - 07/12/2020 20:47:21
except the county v county isnt working as well as it should. You say GAA needs to help weaker counties. But how would you help them.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2542 - 07/12/2020 21:17:44    2320002

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Replying To Liffeylad:  "What would you call the programme done by Prime Time a week or so after the win in 2019. You should also have a read of some of the posts by some your fellow county men"
I saw that programme but I would nt call it an outcry. I read alot of posts after Dubs won all ireland and many of my county men congratulated Dublin. I also saw many Kerry people after the final shaking hands with their Dublin counterparts. Yes a few posters from Kerry were nt so gracious but you will never please everyone. Most of the posts giving out are not from Kerry at all but you seem to just mention Kerry people. I drank with Dublin friends after many finals and I don't make excuses. Win with dignity and lose with dignity.A few Dublin friends actually said to me Kerry fans were brill in 2011 in particular and said maybe if the shoe was on the other foot we might not be as forgiving. Also there is something worse than a bad loser and that is a bad winner. I have always stated my respect and admiration for this Dublin team. I have never said they only win because of this and that. They won because they are a fantastic team. I look forward to the day Kerry can beat them again but that's not out of hate that's out of hope and respect. Finally Kerry will be back. Mark my words as will Galway Donegal Tyrone Cork and Mayo. Football is far from finished.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2732 - 07/12/2020 22:14:25    2320028

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Replying To Crinigan:  "So they do use the expression "crikey" in Tyrone afterall!"
Lol I was trying to keep my language clean.

kevin03 (Tyrone) - Posts: 260 - 07/12/2020 22:22:32    2320031

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Football is finished. Until the Dublin slush fund is redirected around the country. 3 great teams in a decade isnt just a coincidence.

HighStoolBandit (Tyrone) - Posts: 126 - 07/12/2020 23:32:27    2320060

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Replying To Liffeylad:  "Again I will ask the question. When Kerry minors won 5 in a row (a) where was the competition and (b) where was the outcry"
Apples and bicycles. Minors win largely on talent. V little conditioning or tactics, compared to seniors. Team changes every year. Most don't do much at senior level. Kerry minors won because of Kerry minors, not because of central intervention.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1053 - 08/12/2020 00:07:15    2320067

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Roll out a score handicap across all counties, otherwise its untouchable.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2463 - 08/12/2020 09:35:40    2320105

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Funnily enough, nobody was saying "football is dead" on the evening that Cork dumped Kerry out of the championship, or when Cavan came from 10 points down to beat Down, or on the night of the Munster and Ulster finals, or throughout the summer when there were great club championships going on. We're two weeks from Christmas, after an awful tough year, and we still have the football championship to talk about - that's brilliant, just enjoy it.

football first (None) - Posts: 1239 - 08/12/2020 09:53:43    2320114

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Hoganstand these days:

"New" poster lobs a grenade of a thread then disappears. More "new" posters keep the thread going. I long for the old days when you had your odd "new" poster stirring but in the main people knew they could enjoy debate without things becoming personal and if they did cross the line, they were pulled up.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4093 - 08/12/2020 10:46:24    2320134

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to put it into context Swords alone has a population greater than 100,000.
It would be naive of anyone to think Avonmore in Kilkenny or Kerry group in Kerry werent giving those great teams the resources they needed to succeed.
as highlighted on the Sunday Gave per registered player Dublin is getting 4 to 6 times more funding that other counties.
Pat Gilroy's argument was it needed more funding between the canals to develop the game, and many hundreds of thousands in dublin weren't playing the game, this may be the case but many of the same people hes talking about unfortunately need human basic needs first sport second, he knows this too.
If the GAA were to take that approach based on population we should be channeling millions into London and New York as millions of people there arent playing the game either, and both teams doing poorly.


Look if youd like to reply please keep it to the topic, please dont make it personal, turf muncher nonsense etc.
And before I get nailed no offence intended to the disadvantaged areas of Dublin needing basic needs first, sadly this is a fact in our society today, not just Dublin but countrywide.

club51 (Mayo) - Posts: 395 - 08/12/2020 10:55:56    2320142

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Replying To essmac:  "Apples and bicycles. Minors win largely on talent. V little conditioning or tactics, compared to seniors. Team changes every year. Most don't do much at senior level. Kerry minors won because of Kerry minors, not because of central intervention."
Course they did bless their "natural ability", hoofing it outta the womb with a size 5 in their Lámh haha!

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 757 - 08/12/2020 10:57:20    2320143

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The argument for maintaining the level of funding that is being provided to Dublin is that participation levels in Dublin are still below that of the rest of the country. So essentially we are being told that Dublin has not reached its full potential as of yet. If this is the case then football truly is finished.

11jm11 (Kildare) - Posts: 346 - 08/12/2020 11:08:58    2320151

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Replying To 11jm11:  "The argument for maintaining the level of funding that is being provided to Dublin is that participation levels in Dublin are still below that of the rest of the country. So essentially we are being told that Dublin has not reached its full potential as of yet. If this is the case then football truly is finished."
It's not only that. You know that every year about 25k-30k kids are being born to families in the Dublin county area. 40% or so I believe of the country's total, I haven't checked the precise figures.

The Dublin development funding is an ongoing project as it's just the cost of providing the GDOs that are needed in Dublin.

There should be more spent across the country though.

A shift away from capital projects towards coaching is essential.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3534 - 08/12/2020 11:22:20    2320157

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I don't know how anyone could not find what Dublin do attractive to watch, their skill levels are off the charts, look at how comfortable they are left or right hand or foot, people seem to think it's witchcraft or bought in it's not though it's down to the method, my son trains with two footballs so he does both sides at the same time when he is working on his skills, the improvement in his skills since we started doing that have been huge, most clubs don't do anything like that, so many players arrive on the inter county scene as 50% players that's already a huge gap and didn't cost a cent.

Funding will only go so far and throwing money around without a plan will be money wasted. I know of one county who spent 50k on a week's training camp 20 miles down the road, that money could have been spent more wisely than that. look at the money counties and clubs waste on journeymen coaches every year, there is literally millions wasted and usually for minimal gain if any as only one team can win, clubs paying out thousands for senior managers whilst their juvenile section doesn't have enough footballs.

Long-term planning with realistic goals and accountability for not reaching them would be a good starting point in most counties

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1334 - 08/12/2020 12:14:09    2320180

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Ceapaim go mbeidh bua ag Maigh Eo ins an cluiche mór. And all this talk of football being finished will sound like rubbish.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2267 - 08/12/2020 12:33:14    2320191

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