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Football Is Finished

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "The thing Brogan and his buddies can't even fathom is the amount of travelling players from other counties have to do for training. His analysis is so lazy it's not even funny."
Brogan talking silly alright Flaker

No doubting the commitment of Dublin to be as good as they are and remain as focused and driven given their success is unparalleled and does put them in a unique position

But the Socioeconomic make up of the island of Ireland makes it harder for plenty of players to even arrive at training

Just the lay of the land unfortunately and it's always been that way

Kerry teams of the 1970's had Dublin based players training in Dublin, it's something that will always impact teams

Unless the entire economic makeup of the country changes

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20341 - 06/12/2020 18:45:18    2319394

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Sponsorship money has to be redistributed.
The biggest money spinners need to have some of their money taxed.
Say you've an average of €1m in sponsorship for each team and Dublin are bringing in €2.5m. I don't know how realistic those figures are but it's just illustrative. Dublin should be allowed to keep half of the excess over the average. So they'd keep 1.75m and the other 750k should be redistributed to teams with less funding.
Say Carlow bring in 300k, they are 700k below the average, they'd be topped up by 350k to have 650k.
The details would need to be ironed out to account for dual teams and there'd need to be incredibly strict penalties for non disclosure of monies (ejection from the Championship harsh) but it'd be a step towards some competitive balance.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3135 - 06/12/2020 11:59:55
Why would sponsors agree with that?
Sponsors of bigger counties far less likely to be involved if their money is going to other counties. AIG and others sponsor Dublin for prestige of that and they wont put in as much if it isnt going towards Dublin. Why would they be happy about that.

There is a serious disrespect being shown to the Dublin players recently. To dismiss their dedication, skill and drive and amazing achievements because they are 'professionals' is really low for any so-called GAA person. they are amateurs balancing work, families and life just like all other players. Dublin players ambition, focus, (incredible) skills and in particular their example set to young people off the pitch should not be dismissed whatever your views on funding or playing home games in CP are.
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4451 - 06/12/2020 12:08:02
Nobody is saying that. Nobody has dismissed their skill or drive. They are amatuers balancing work etc like all other players in other counties but its very clear they have big advantages over other counties and if not addressed they will get 6/7 out of every 10 all irelands for the forseeable future and tht isnt good for the game.

Agree. Some (not all) Dublin fans are deluded into thinking this stuff is because just hard work not the financial stuff. It is literally like an alcoholic that will not admit they have an issue. GAA will die a slow death and it is dying. I live in Galway these days with work, went for a meal with the wife and kids. Wanted to watch the game, they had horse racing on for an all ireland semi final and debated with me that other people were watching the racing. They could put it on in a half hour and could "could see what they could do "...An AI semi was second best to a few horses running about. If that is not the slow death of GAA I don't know what is and Galway is a strong football county. I walked straight out , had the food and a pint ordered. To me that is the death of the game . Horse racing , jesus christ.

GAA need to get themselves together if horse racing is put ahead of an all ireland semi in locals
GameofTyronesIsBackhere (Tyrone) - Posts: 35 - 06/12/2020 12:28:19
The GAA is not dying a slow death. Where did you go in Galway to watch the game?
That they had the racing on is far from an implication that the sport is in trouble.

It will last until the GAA money runs out and that might not be too far into the future with plummeting attendances for football.
Cork with a population bigger than Connacht should asked to be considered as a province like Dublin are in terms of funding. They have twice the clubs Dublin does after all.
republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 145 - 06/12/2020 14:03:31
are attendances really that bad.
while cork does have a lot of clubs how many are football or hurling only which affects total number of clubs to a significant effect.

Good idea but it would need to be organised by the GAA centrally rather than individual counties as why would Dublin (or Kerry) bother spending time and money negotiating for a sponsorship deal which exceeds the 1m as it would only benefit other counties. Perhaps if sponsorship was sold as package it could better spread. So to sponsor Dublin you also need to sponsor Leitrim, Derry and Carlow for example. Same for other larger value counties.. Kerry, Cork, Galway..
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4451 - 06/12/2020 14:27:43
would sponsors want that? Better having like the all ireland championship itself. main sponsors of all teams that go on the jersey but counties can than have their own deals on the side??

Dublin have natural advantages and have sorted out their structures so I would be surprised if we ever see them go very long without an All-Ireland again. But football is not dead, there are teams that can and will beat them coming soon.
This is not to say GAA don't need to seriously think about the games outside the capital. Rural clubs are dying and in all honesty it's all linked to a laissez faire attitude in Irish government that let's Dublin run wild. Everything is centred on Dublin and so there's no infrastructure around the country and very little opportunity for people to stay closer to home if they want that option. Every county in Ireland has players capable of being very competitive at intercounty level in my opinion but the vast majority of these players don't stay home because they can't for lack of opportunities, and then the commitment on training and all of that you have to add 4-6-8 hour round trips on to that two or three times a week.
This isn't a slight on Dublin like I said above they always had natural advantages and it's coming to the fore now because they got funding and have sorted themselves out massively. I am also a big fan of this Dublin side and the players, they are great representatives of the GAA. However Bernard Brogan (a player I greatly admired) coming out with that nonsense about Dublin players working harder than everyone else. It's an insult to players from other counties in all honesty. I hate that nonsense.
The GAA need to have a massive think about a) helping clubs around the country and b) giving counties and provincial councils the money and a plan for competing. I've not got much issue with money in Dublin going towards getting kids playing our games to be honest, it all comes down to that. But the kid in Belfast or Leitrim or Portlaoise is as deserving of the same funding, structures and support right through to senior.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1143 - 06/12/2020 14:48:19
A blanket statement that rural clubs are dying is far from the truth and cant really be said. in some areas due to demographic changes etc yes but its not the case in many other rural areas.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2546 - 06/12/2020 19:23:05    2319422

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Brogan talking silly alright Flaker

No doubting the commitment of Dublin to be as good as they are and remain as focused and driven given their success is unparalleled and does put them in a unique position

But the Socioeconomic make up of the island of Ireland makes it harder for plenty of players to even arrive at training

Just the lay of the land unfortunately and it's always been that way

Kerry teams of the 1970's had Dublin based players training in Dublin, it's something that will always impact teams

Unless the entire economic makeup of the country changes"
I agree it's just harder for modern players with the amount of training they do. Mayo have collective training twice a week for the summer months. That's a 6 hour round trip twice a week plus 2 gym sessions all in 5 days. Harder for the body to recover when doing that type of travelling and brutal training.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7297 - 06/12/2020 19:51:00    2319441

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Brogan talking silly alright Flaker

No doubting the commitment of Dublin to be as good as they are and remain as focused and driven given their success is unparalleled and does put them in a unique position

But the Socioeconomic make up of the island of Ireland makes it harder for plenty of players to even arrive at training

Just the lay of the land unfortunately and it's always been that way

Kerry teams of the 1970's had Dublin based players training in Dublin, it's something that will always impact teams

Unless the entire economic makeup of the country changes"
You know what brogan didnt mention, the board that was specifically set up to help dublin GAA. You dont mention it either. You know the one that no other county has been deemed worthy of . That apparently isn't special treatment . You can dissect the funding all you want but no other team in ireland has gotten a board with the sole purpose of improving them. saving them from the horrors of the all ireland semis and an occasional provincial . Nightmarish stuff altogether , how did you get through it

Apparently that board just sat around drinking tea and twiddling its thumbs and in no way shape or form helped Dublin

galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1459 - 06/12/2020 20:25:38    2319464

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Replying To Crinigan:  "And he came back almost immediately, didn't he?"
Yep and he came back to a nice cosy job doing tours of Croke park...wonder how that was engineered.

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 06/12/2020 20:42:19    2319479

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I believe we will give Dublin a game and Dublin are beatable. Problem is every other county moans and gives out about Dublin advantages, Croke Park, money, AIG...blah blah which seeps into the mentality of your players...ye are beat before ye even cross the white lines.

Mayo don't fear Dublin and never have. Give it socks..if we are beaten then [email protected]&k it that life. If we win then oh my what a day it will be on the 19th...Up Mayo.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10813 - 06/12/2020 20:58:43    2319489

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Sponsorship money has to be redistributed.
The biggest money spinners need to have some of their money taxed.
Say you've an average of €1m in sponsorship for each team and Dublin are bringing in €2.5m. I don't know how realistic those figures are but it's just illustrative. Dublin should be allowed to keep half of the excess over the average. So they'd keep 1.75m and the other 750k should be redistributed to teams with less funding.
Say Carlow bring in 300k, they are 700k below the average, they'd be topped up by 350k to have 650k.
The details would need to be ironed out to account for dual teams and there'd need to be incredibly strict penalties for non disclosure of monies (ejection from the Championship harsh) but it'd be a step towards some competitive balance.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3135 - 06/12/2020 11:59:55
Why would sponsors agree with that?
Sponsors of bigger counties far less likely to be involved if their money is going to other counties. AIG and others sponsor Dublin for prestige of that and they wont put in as much if it isnt going towards Dublin. Why would they be happy about that.

There is a serious disrespect being shown to the Dublin players recently. To dismiss their dedication, skill and drive and amazing achievements because they are 'professionals' is really low for any so-called GAA person. they are amateurs balancing work, families and life just like all other players. Dublin players ambition, focus, (incredible) skills and in particular their example set to young people off the pitch should not be dismissed whatever your views on funding or playing home games in CP are.
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4451 - 06/12/2020 12:08:02
Nobody is saying that. Nobody has dismissed their skill or drive. They are amatuers balancing work etc like all other players in other counties but its very clear they have big advantages over other counties and if not addressed they will get 6/7 out of every 10 all irelands for the forseeable future and tht isnt good for the game.

Agree. Some (not all) Dublin fans are deluded into thinking this stuff is because just hard work not the financial stuff. It is literally like an alcoholic that will not admit they have an issue. GAA will die a slow death and it is dying. I live in Galway these days with work, went for a meal with the wife and kids. Wanted to watch the game, they had horse racing on for an all ireland semi final and debated with me that other people were watching the racing. They could put it on in a half hour and could "could see what they could do "...An AI semi was second best to a few horses running about. If that is not the slow death of GAA I don't know what is and Galway is a strong football county. I walked straight out , had the food and a pint ordered. To me that is the death of the game . Horse racing , jesus christ.

GAA need to get themselves together if horse racing is put ahead of an all ireland semi in locals
GameofTyronesIsBackhere (Tyrone) - Posts: 35 - 06/12/2020 12:28:19
The GAA is not dying a slow death. Where did you go in Galway to watch the game?
That they had the racing on is far from an implication that the sport is in trouble.

It will last until the GAA money runs out and that might not be too far into the future with plummeting attendances for football.
Cork with a population bigger than Connacht should asked to be considered as a province like Dublin are in terms of funding. They have twice the clubs Dublin does after all.
republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 145 - 06/12/2020 14:03:31
are attendances really that bad.
while cork does have a lot of clubs how many are football or hurling only which affects total number of clubs to a significant effect.

Good idea but it would need to be organised by the GAA centrally rather than individual counties as why would Dublin (or Kerry) bother spending time and money negotiating for a sponsorship deal which exceeds the 1m as it would only benefit other counties. Perhaps if sponsorship was sold as package it could better spread. So to sponsor Dublin you also need to sponsor Leitrim, Derry and Carlow for example. Same for other larger value counties.. Kerry, Cork, Galway..
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4451 - 06/12/2020 14:27:43
would sponsors want that? Better having like the all ireland championship itself. main sponsors of all teams that go on the jersey but counties can than have their own deals on the side??

Dublin have natural advantages and have sorted out their structures so I would be surprised if we ever see them go very long without an All-Ireland again. But football is not dead, there are teams that can and will beat them coming soon.
This is not to say GAA don't need to seriously think about the games outside the capital. Rural clubs are dying and in all honesty it's all linked to a laissez faire attitude in Irish government that let's Dublin run wild. Everything is centred on Dublin and so there's no infrastructure around the country and very little opportunity for people to stay closer to home if they want that option. Every county in Ireland has players capable of being very competitive at intercounty level in my opinion but the vast majority of these players don't stay home because they can't for lack of opportunities, and then the commitment on training and all of that you have to add 4-6-8 hour round trips on to that two or three times a week.
This isn't a slight on Dublin like I said above they always had natural advantages and it's coming to the fore now because they got funding and have sorted themselves out massively. I am also a big fan of this Dublin side and the players, they are great representatives of the GAA. However Bernard Brogan (a player I greatly admired) coming out with that nonsense about Dublin players working harder than everyone else. It's an insult to players from other counties in all honesty. I hate that nonsense.
The GAA need to have a massive think about a) helping clubs around the country and b) giving counties and provincial councils the money and a plan for competing. I've not got much issue with money in Dublin going towards getting kids playing our games to be honest, it all comes down to that. But the kid in Belfast or Leitrim or Portlaoise is as deserving of the same funding, structures and support right through to senior.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1143 - 06/12/2020 14:48:19
A blanket statement that rural clubs are dying is far from the truth and cant really be said. in some areas due to demographic changes etc yes but its not the case in many other rural areas."
The sponsors still get their profile, their name on the jersey, their promotional opportunities.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3582 - 06/12/2020 21:10:01    2319497

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Replying To Llaw_Gyffes:  "Just wondering how many players from other counties would get on the Dublin team as it stands. In a normal year there would be standout players from other counties but this year not so much. If you look at young Galligan, who was arguably the stand out player in Ulster, a shoe in for an all star and in the running for player of the year. Against the Dubs he touched the ball eight times. They don't seem to have a weak link. Look at young Howard, built like a s***house wall and the first name on any midfield in the country and he can't get on. Michael Murphy, Conor McManus, Lee Keegan would all have been good enough a few years back, but would they now. Paddy Durkin, but he wouldn't be allowed to shoot, Aido wouldn't have the necessary pace, young McHugh from Donegal if he bulked up. Cillian and young O Shea are good free takers but not as good as Rock. Clifford, but if he missed a 21 yard free he wouldn't get the chance to miss the second. A lot of counties have so called marquee players who are indulged a little. Hard luck Tommy when an outrageous attempt from the corner just drifts wide. Sure didn't he score one like that last year. The Dubs don't do indulgent. There were several occasions last night when the shot was on at a maybe seventy, thirty chance of success but was turned down until the percentage was higher. It gets to the stage where if the Dubs kick a wide you are saying wtf. Quinleven and Sweeney for Tipp are very good players but are they any better than Costello and Mannion who are only on the Dubs bench. If the Allstars were picked on form at the minute Dublin would probably get as many as twelve. The only barometer to judge a player now is how he played against the Dubs. Going on this year so far the answer would be, not very well."
It's not about how many players from other counties would get in the Dublin team. They don't need them cos they have a brilliant team. But the word is Team. They have nt the best individual footballers in the country for every position. If one was asked to pick the best team in Ireland (not all stars as they only for the championship) Would Dublin have 15 on it?Hell no! The thing about Dublin is yes they have a few superstars but they have great workers and team players too. Would Niall Scully or Mick Fitz get on the best team in Ireland. I doubt it but they suit Dublin. Even Cluxton who imo is the greatest Goalie ever might not be a certainty now with Niall Morgan or Rory Beggan near him. Imo the only certainties would be James Mccarthy Fenton and Ó Callaghan. I mean in the backs would Neil McGee and Ryan McHugh not be on it. Paddy Durcan of Mayo. For me Fenton certainty midfield but altho many might not have seen him Gary Brennan Clare is 2nd best midfielder in Ireland. Would Tom Ó Sullivan Kerry make it. Would David Clifford Cathal McShane Shane Walsh Michael Murphy Conor McManus make it. Would Mattie Donnolly Cillian Ó Connor Seán Ó Shea be in with a shout. Aidan Ó Shea Damian Comer Danel Flynn? You see that's the beauty of it.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2745 - 06/12/2020 21:10:04    2319498

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I did not read Brogans comments but if true it a good example of ignorance. If he was playing for Leitrim, or indeed many other counties and worked twice as hard as he has claimed to have done he would still never have won an AI. Dublin are well organized with very good players being well financed. Some of their clubs have a bigger pick than most of the counties in the country. With their pick, finance, organisation and numbers they could put out two out of the top 3 teams in the country at any given time. Now many counties incl. Meath have totally neglected underage with guys coaching/in charge who were many levels below the standard required.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2277 - 06/12/2020 21:36:26    2319519

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Replying To yew_tree:  "I believe we will give Dublin a game and Dublin are beatable. Problem is every other county moans and gives out about Dublin advantages, Croke Park, money, AIG...blah blah which seeps into the mentality of your players...ye are beat before ye even cross the white lines.

Mayo don't fear Dublin and never have. Give it socks..if we are beaten then [email protected]&k it that life. If we win then oh my what a day it will be on the 19th...Up Mayo."
I just don't think this mayo team is as good as they have been in previous finals and dublin look better then they ever have been, but your right mayo are one of the counties along with kerry that have gone toe to toe with dublin and certainly aren't afraid of them unlike sadly counties like my own, I wish mayo luck and it be great for football and it will give other counties belief aswell if dublin are beaten in two weeks, but I'm expecting a big dublin win unfortunately but like I said I really hope im wrong which I am often.

Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 521 - 06/12/2020 21:40:24    2319525

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thanks all for getting this post up to such high numbers, I thought it would be left and a few Dubs would berate me for criticizing their style of play, the majority agree with my views...how anyone thinks thats good to look at is beyond belief...I was watching Mayo and Tipp today...something glaringly obvious struck me watching Mayo play a similar but a wee bit more attractive brand of Dublin football (not much but they dont pocket the ball for as long)..take Dublin out of Croke Park for these big games, no that will not happen and we all know why, but Dublin are getting nearly (if not all) their championship games in Croker Park, sure that cannot be fair for one thing, and another, how can a team like Cavan, having played in much smaller venues upto now be expected to come into a pitch the size of Croke Park, and beat a team whom are used to the size of Croke Park, sure kick passing etc. cannot be executed accurately on a constistent basis during a game if its your first time playing there...yes, Mayo and Tyrone have played there a good few times, but its nearly always against Dublin whom are able to beat them, so playing one match there a season and getting beaten, is not the same as "Mayo and Tyrone are used to playing in Croke park" ...they are not...I was looking back over the early rounds of the championship from this year and other years, and for any mediocre team to be picked up, and lobbed into Croke Park to play Dublin, sure its totally unfair and must really be overwhelming to be honest...Let Dublin play their games away from HQ, see will they have all the space and time to play keep ball in Navan, Portaoise, or Newbridge or other, yes they are good enough to win away from home, but I am convinced the games would be alot closer and Dublin wouldnt have it all their own way...whats going on now is a farce...with no crowds this championship was an excuse for getting Dublin out of Croke Park with no supporters, but all the games are pencilled in for HQ as if we are all supposed to be thrilled with that or something (if you support Dublin fine)...Dublin V Cavan with no supporters should have been played in Navan or Mullingar or somewhere...these big stadiums been built and used for the home team to justify their existence is not to used to disadvantage teams from outside the capital...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 866 - 06/12/2020 22:18:37    2319541

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Football as we knew it is finished and we have a different product now that has evolved over several years,its still called football but the ball is not kicked with the foot very much any more.Dublin cleared a ball off their own endline yesterday and I don't believe a foot touched it until the kickout after they scored a goal..palmed to the net.
Is this the football product we want?I don't think so.The game needs to be radically looked at and rules changed to make a more footballing spectacle.
That was an interesting chat on The Sunday Game about dividing up Dublin to match the administration boroughs.
The money given to Dublin was to get more involvement by the population in playing GAA,it seems going by Pat Gilroy that it has failed completely between the two Canals.It seems where the GAA was strong in Dublin it has become stronger.
Only three clubs in the Tallaght area with a population of 100k.So has the Dublin project failed...it seems the intention wasn't to make the Co team stronger but to get the GAA rooted in areas where it never had a stronghold....what areas in Dublin has this happened?Has most of the money been spent on the elite clubs and their hinterlands and the County team?I would love to know.If the money was spent as intended the game would be flourishing in all parts of Dublin and teams representing each admisitrative borough would have lots of clubs/players at their disposal!

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 863 - 06/12/2020 23:45:40    2319573

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "thanks all for getting this post up to such high numbers, I thought it would be left and a few Dubs would berate me for criticizing their style of play, the majority agree with my views...how anyone thinks thats good to look at is beyond belief...I was watching Mayo and Tipp today...something glaringly obvious struck me watching Mayo play a similar but a wee bit more attractive brand of Dublin football (not much but they dont pocket the ball for as long)..take Dublin out of Croke Park for these big games, no that will not happen and we all know why, but Dublin are getting nearly (if not all) their championship games in Croker Park, sure that cannot be fair for one thing, and another, how can a team like Cavan, having played in much smaller venues upto now be expected to come into a pitch the size of Croke Park, and beat a team whom are used to the size of Croke Park, sure kick passing etc. cannot be executed accurately on a constistent basis during a game if its your first time playing there...yes, Mayo and Tyrone have played there a good few times, but its nearly always against Dublin whom are able to beat them, so playing one match there a season and getting beaten, is not the same as "Mayo and Tyrone are used to playing in Croke park" ...they are not...I was looking back over the early rounds of the championship from this year and other years, and for any mediocre team to be picked up, and lobbed into Croke Park to play Dublin, sure its totally unfair and must really be overwhelming to be honest...Let Dublin play their games away from HQ, see will they have all the space and time to play keep ball in Navan, Portaoise, or Newbridge or other, yes they are good enough to win away from home, but I am convinced the games would be alot closer and Dublin wouldnt have it all their own way...whats going on now is a farce...with no crowds this championship was an excuse for getting Dublin out of Croke Park with no supporters, but all the games are pencilled in for HQ as if we are all supposed to be thrilled with that or something (if you support Dublin fine)...Dublin V Cavan with no supporters should have been played in Navan or Mullingar or somewhere...these big stadiums been built and used for the home team to justify their existence is not to used to disadvantage teams from outside the capital..."
Croke Park is no bigger than most pitches from what I've read, ok the Athletic grounds may be a bit narrower, I think it's the stands etc that makes it look so different and the surface is obviously better than most pitches.
No reason mayo can't win this year if things go well for them, as good as Dublin are they are not unbeatable,
the lack of supporters might help Mayo they might feel less pressure, really looking forward to this one now.
It will pass the time till Christmas.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1775 - 06/12/2020 23:58:04    2319576

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To simplify...A good football championship is when a good spread of counties win it and good number of teams in it have a chance of winning. The hurling championship is good.

downtothecore (Down) - Posts: 338 - 07/12/2020 07:00:37    2319600

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It can be denied repeatedly but the facts are clear, and they show that Dublin have a number of huge advantages over every other county, not just in funding. They are sponsored officially by AIG who previously sponsored Man Utd. Their near neighbours, from a very wealthy county, are sponsored by a sliced ham company. The funding generated by the huge support base within the capital allows them to be a professional team by any measure. Players who have work commitments that will not allow them to be available on a more or less full time basis have to drop out, no matter how talented they may be. Dr Jack for example. Contrast that with county boards who are warning their players not to swap jerseys at the end of games because they cannot afford to replace them. Then you have Croke Park, the home ground of Dublin. A unique surface to any other pitch which on which Dublin play the vast majority of their games. Was it 1 or 2 championship games that Bernard Brogan played outside of Croke Park during his long stint with the team? This is an advantage that cannot be denied. Then there is the maxim "the big teams get the big calls" when it comes to officiating. Nowhere is this more clearly visibly than in the great RTE documentary "All Ireland Day" from 2017. Link here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhNzf31pgc0
It shows, starting in the 9th minute, the match officials for the final being prepped in Croke Park 4 days before the final V Kerry. The Dublin presenters of the event proceed to show the ref videos of a number of incidents from earlier games and ask him for his opinion on them. The incidents shown involve fouls on Kerry players, 1 a very late challenge, the other a trip. The presenter is very keen to downplay the seriousness of the challenges. What could the officials take away from that presentation? Do not be giving frees to Kerry unless you are very sure and be very reluctant to give cards. Surely in the interests of fairness clips shown to give examples of incidents should not have included either of the teams playing the final a few days later. In the subsequent game the ref claimed not to have seen what Kerry claimed was a red card offence. Then move on to match day itself, the ref, on arrival is greeted by the great and the good legends of Dublin football from the past. I am not in any way questioning the integrity of the ref, but we are all human and it would be very hard for him not to feel pressurised. I wonder, with covid and all, will the ref for this year's final be summoned to a presentation before this year's final? I will not bother going into the overturning of punishments on the back of the odd red card that is issued, was there another one last week?

martinjoe (Mayo) - Posts: 450 - 07/12/2020 07:40:06    2319604

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Sponsorship money has to be redistributed.
The biggest money spinners need to have some of their money taxed.
Say you've an average of €1m in sponsorship for each team and Dublin are bringing in €2.5m. I don't know how realistic those figures are but it's just illustrative. Dublin should be allowed to keep half of the excess over the average. So they'd keep 1.75m and the other 750k should be redistributed to teams with less funding.
Say Carlow bring in 300k, they are 700k below the average, they'd be topped up by 350k to have 650k.
The details would need to be ironed out to account for dual teams and there'd need to be incredibly strict penalties for non disclosure of monies (ejection from the Championship harsh) but it'd be a step towards some competitive balance.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3135 - 06/12/2020 11:59:55
Why would sponsors agree with that?
Sponsors of bigger counties far less likely to be involved if their money is going to other counties. AIG and others sponsor Dublin for prestige of that and they wont put in as much if it isnt going towards Dublin. Why would they be happy about that.

There is a serious disrespect being shown to the Dublin players recently. To dismiss their dedication, skill and drive and amazing achievements because they are 'professionals' is really low for any so-called GAA person. they are amateurs balancing work, families and life just like all other players. Dublin players ambition, focus, (incredible) skills and in particular their example set to young people off the pitch should not be dismissed whatever your views on funding or playing home games in CP are.
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4451 - 06/12/2020 12:08:02
Nobody is saying that. Nobody has dismissed their skill or drive. They are amatuers balancing work etc like all other players in other counties but its very clear they have big advantages over other counties and if not addressed they will get 6/7 out of every 10 all irelands for the forseeable future and tht isnt good for the game.

Agree. Some (not all) Dublin fans are deluded into thinking this stuff is because just hard work not the financial stuff. It is literally like an alcoholic that will not admit they have an issue. GAA will die a slow death and it is dying. I live in Galway these days with work, went for a meal with the wife and kids. Wanted to watch the game, they had horse racing on for an all ireland semi final and debated with me that other people were watching the racing. They could put it on in a half hour and could "could see what they could do "...An AI semi was second best to a few horses running about. If that is not the slow death of GAA I don't know what is and Galway is a strong football county. I walked straight out , had the food and a pint ordered. To me that is the death of the game . Horse racing , jesus christ.

GAA need to get themselves together if horse racing is put ahead of an all ireland semi in locals
GameofTyronesIsBackhere (Tyrone) - Posts: 35 - 06/12/2020 12:28:19
The GAA is not dying a slow death. Where did you go in Galway to watch the game?
That they had the racing on is far from an implication that the sport is in trouble.

It will last until the GAA money runs out and that might not be too far into the future with plummeting attendances for football.
Cork with a population bigger than Connacht should asked to be considered as a province like Dublin are in terms of funding. They have twice the clubs Dublin does after all.
republicofcloone (Leitrim) - Posts: 145 - 06/12/2020 14:03:31
are attendances really that bad.
while cork does have a lot of clubs how many are football or hurling only which affects total number of clubs to a significant effect.

Good idea but it would need to be organised by the GAA centrally rather than individual counties as why would Dublin (or Kerry) bother spending time and money negotiating for a sponsorship deal which exceeds the 1m as it would only benefit other counties. Perhaps if sponsorship was sold as package it could better spread. So to sponsor Dublin you also need to sponsor Leitrim, Derry and Carlow for example. Same for other larger value counties.. Kerry, Cork, Galway..
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4451 - 06/12/2020 14:27:43
would sponsors want that? Better having like the all ireland championship itself. main sponsors of all teams that go on the jersey but counties can than have their own deals on the side??

Dublin have natural advantages and have sorted out their structures so I would be surprised if we ever see them go very long without an All-Ireland again. But football is not dead, there are teams that can and will beat them coming soon.
This is not to say GAA don't need to seriously think about the games outside the capital. Rural clubs are dying and in all honesty it's all linked to a laissez faire attitude in Irish government that let's Dublin run wild. Everything is centred on Dublin and so there's no infrastructure around the country and very little opportunity for people to stay closer to home if they want that option. Every county in Ireland has players capable of being very competitive at intercounty level in my opinion but the vast majority of these players don't stay home because they can't for lack of opportunities, and then the commitment on training and all of that you have to add 4-6-8 hour round trips on to that two or three times a week.
This isn't a slight on Dublin like I said above they always had natural advantages and it's coming to the fore now because they got funding and have sorted themselves out massively. I am also a big fan of this Dublin side and the players, they are great representatives of the GAA. However Bernard Brogan (a player I greatly admired) coming out with that nonsense about Dublin players working harder than everyone else. It's an insult to players from other counties in all honesty. I hate that nonsense.
The GAA need to have a massive think about a) helping clubs around the country and b) giving counties and provincial councils the money and a plan for competing. I've not got much issue with money in Dublin going towards getting kids playing our games to be honest, it all comes down to that. But the kid in Belfast or Leitrim or Portlaoise is as deserving of the same funding, structures and support right through to senior.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1143 - 06/12/2020 14:48:19
A blanket statement that rural clubs are dying is far from the truth and cant really be said. in some areas due to demographic changes etc yes but its not the case in many other rural areas."
I know we've lost Valentia young islanders this year the great Mick O'Connells club through lack of numbers, lots of clubs now having to amalgamate in South and North kerry and I'm sure that's the case up and down the western sea board.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13621 - 07/12/2020 08:29:25    2319612

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Replying To Royal.Legend:  "I just don't think this mayo team is as good as they have been in previous finals and dublin look better then they ever have been, but your right mayo are one of the counties along with kerry that have gone toe to toe with dublin and certainly aren't afraid of them unlike sadly counties like my own, I wish mayo luck and it be great for football and it will give other counties belief aswell if dublin are beaten in two weeks, but I'm expecting a big dublin win unfortunately but like I said I really hope im wrong which I am often."
Every Christmas my Dad and myself discuss the Mayo team, the year past and the year ahead. I told him 5 or 6 years ago that if we ever do win The All Ireland we'll witness a mentally strong team that can go to the well and do what it takes when needed. We'll look back on previous Mayo teams and say that they had better footballers but in some big games they beat themselves. Not saying it'll never happen mind you but a lot of my neighbours here in Meath have a lot of green and red decorations out! And President Joe Biden from Knockmore, the county champions. Surely someone will trace Santa Claus's ancestry back to Swinford. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

It's Christmas and you got to have a dream,
If you don't have a dream,
How you gonna have a dream come true?
Maigh Eo Abú!

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 6284 - 07/12/2020 09:03:37    2319622

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "thanks all for getting this post up to such high numbers, I thought it would be left and a few Dubs would berate me for criticizing their style of play, the majority agree with my views...how anyone thinks thats good to look at is beyond belief...I was watching Mayo and Tipp today...something glaringly obvious struck me watching Mayo play a similar but a wee bit more attractive brand of Dublin football (not much but they dont pocket the ball for as long)..take Dublin out of Croke Park for these big games, no that will not happen and we all know why, but Dublin are getting nearly (if not all) their championship games in Croker Park, sure that cannot be fair for one thing, and another, how can a team like Cavan, having played in much smaller venues upto now be expected to come into a pitch the size of Croke Park, and beat a team whom are used to the size of Croke Park, sure kick passing etc. cannot be executed accurately on a constistent basis during a game if its your first time playing there...yes, Mayo and Tyrone have played there a good few times, but its nearly always against Dublin whom are able to beat them, so playing one match there a season and getting beaten, is not the same as "Mayo and Tyrone are used to playing in Croke park" ...they are not...I was looking back over the early rounds of the championship from this year and other years, and for any mediocre team to be picked up, and lobbed into Croke Park to play Dublin, sure its totally unfair and must really be overwhelming to be honest...Let Dublin play their games away from HQ, see will they have all the space and time to play keep ball in Navan, Portaoise, or Newbridge or other, yes they are good enough to win away from home, but I am convinced the games would be alot closer and Dublin wouldnt have it all their own way...whats going on now is a farce...with no crowds this championship was an excuse for getting Dublin out of Croke Park with no supporters, but all the games are pencilled in for HQ as if we are all supposed to be thrilled with that or something (if you support Dublin fine)...Dublin V Cavan with no supporters should have been played in Navan or Mullingar or somewhere...these big stadiums been built and used for the home team to justify their existence is not to used to disadvantage teams from outside the capital..."
Not many Dubs would disagree with taking the Dubs out of Croke Park. Dublin can't control that. What we do know is that when they are out of Croke Park, the result doesn't alter. As you said yourself, Dublin don't play the long ball into open space game. They used to in the early days of Gavin but with all teams now deploying blanket defences it would be suicide and would yield cheap turnovers. On shorter pitches, again Harte narrowed the pitch in Omagh and it didn't impact the outcome. I personally don't have a problem with any team hand passing around the 45 probing for openings but it all stems from the blanket. Unless a rule is introduced where you have to retain x players in the opposition half then this ball retention at all costs approach will continue and the size of the pitch will make little difference. A team has to play in Croke Park some day if they want to win Sam. If Cavan didn't play there on Sat then they would have been playing there in 2 weeks time had they advanced.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4442 - 07/12/2020 09:31:36    2319632

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I think that the future of any competition looks ominous when the winners are pretty much pre-ordained. Dublin have reached a level of preparation, conditioning, game management and winning mentality that makes it extremely difficult for any of the rest to mount a credible challenge. They have gotten themselves into a position where the players are empowered to just go out and deal comfortably with whatever scenario they are presented with, with little input required from management. Quite simply, they are an outfit operating at optimum levels. The Amazon of the GAA world.

As jimbo has already said, the issue is a socio-economic one, and expecting the GAA to come up with some sort of magic bullet to even things up is unrealistic. For generations now, people have flocked to the capital in search of work from rural Ireland. Successive governments haven't done enough to address this. There is hope that as technology advances, better broadband, better infrastructure etc, may mean that we do not see the same exodus of our youth as before. But it's not something that will improve over night either.

I think Mayo are one of the few teams who can match Dublin for pace and physicality. Up to a point. Dublin simply have more options from the bench. I mean, taking the other day as an example. Brian Howard and Paul Mannion from the bench? Two of the best footballers in the country. Mayo will give it their all as they always do, but ultimately Dublin's superior resources will see them comfortably win by about 7 or 8 points.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7419 - 07/12/2020 10:10:12    2319644

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Replying To martinjoe:  "It can be denied repeatedly but the facts are clear, and they show that Dublin have a number of huge advantages over every other county, not just in funding. They are sponsored officially by AIG who previously sponsored Man Utd. Their near neighbours, from a very wealthy county, are sponsored by a sliced ham company. The funding generated by the huge support base within the capital allows them to be a professional team by any measure. Players who have work commitments that will not allow them to be available on a more or less full time basis have to drop out, no matter how talented they may be. Dr Jack for example. Contrast that with county boards who are warning their players not to swap jerseys at the end of games because they cannot afford to replace them. Then you have Croke Park, the home ground of Dublin. A unique surface to any other pitch which on which Dublin play the vast majority of their games. Was it 1 or 2 championship games that Bernard Brogan played outside of Croke Park during his long stint with the team? This is an advantage that cannot be denied. Then there is the maxim "the big teams get the big calls" when it comes to officiating. Nowhere is this more clearly visibly than in the great RTE documentary "All Ireland Day" from 2017. Link here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhNzf31pgc0
It shows, starting in the 9th minute, the match officials for the final being prepped in Croke Park 4 days before the final V Kerry. The Dublin presenters of the event proceed to show the ref videos of a number of incidents from earlier games and ask him for his opinion on them. The incidents shown involve fouls on Kerry players, 1 a very late challenge, the other a trip. The presenter is very keen to downplay the seriousness of the challenges. What could the officials take away from that presentation? Do not be giving frees to Kerry unless you are very sure and be very reluctant to give cards. Surely in the interests of fairness clips shown to give examples of incidents should not have included either of the teams playing the final a few days later. In the subsequent game the ref claimed not to have seen what Kerry claimed was a red card offence. Then move on to match day itself, the ref, on arrival is greeted by the great and the good legends of Dublin football from the past. I am not in any way questioning the integrity of the ref, but we are all human and it would be very hard for him not to feel pressurised. I wonder, with covid and all, will the ref for this year's final be summoned to a presentation before this year's final? I will not bother going into the overturning of punishments on the back of the odd red card that is issued, was there another one last week?"
100% Martin Joe I remember that, it was 2015 though not 2017, although I remember in the 2017 league final between ourselves and dublin cluxtin got booked before the ball was thrown in for the second half and it wasn't till I got home and watchrd the game back on TG4 that the commentator said he was booked for going to the reffs room at half time, he had no business doing that but it got me wondering how long has he been going on.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13621 - 07/12/2020 11:39:31    2319692

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