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El Clasico 2020 Monaghan Vs Cavan

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For the life of me i cannot figure out how Banty has somehow carved out a reputation as a top manager.
Lets look back on his cv. It reminds me a bit of Mick McCarthy, he gives good press and soundbites so media love him.

Managed Monaghan for few years in the late noughties where he admittedly made them a bit more competitive and harder to beat, they won nothing though. That same group under Malachy O'Rourke would win 2 ulsters, get to an all ireland semi final and stay in division 1 for 7+ years

Somehow landed the Meath job where he was an unmitigated disaster, the only notable feature of his time there was bringing a 40 year old Geraghty out of retirement. Not much of a long term view there. Left behind a big ball

Wexford job next where he was relatively mediocre but undoubtedly left a huge bill and expenses tab

..which leads to Saturday, a 7 point commanding lead at halftime against a cavan side whose confidence was on the floor, All his forwards scoring well (O'Hanlon, McManus, Bannigan). Thus follows one of the most cowardly negative 2nd half performances i have seen, parking the bus and attempting to keep ball for an entire half. The tactics pretty much nullified all the attackers who had been going well and 2 fisted points from defenders the sum total of efforts. Cavan suddenly realised around the 60th minute that Monaghan had no intent on leaving their half so went for it. Monaghan and banty got what they deserved.

All this followed a week when he talked about how monaghan were 'embarassed' by Cavan last year, ridiculously OTT statement and insulting to O'Rourke and cavan

HuddHastings (Longford) - Posts: 78 - 02/11/2020 11:50:12    2304332

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He was in the frame for the Cavan job a few years ago, went down to him and McGleenan. He was also in for the Donegal job when Gallagher left.
I remember reading Kevin Cassidy in Gaelic life, saying Donegal should give him the job over Declan Bonner. Which was bizarre.
One of these managers that likes the limelight. All bluster. Really poor tactics In second half.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2221 - 02/11/2020 12:01:31    2304348

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "He was in the frame for the Cavan job a few years ago, went down to him and McGleenan. He was also in for the Donegal job when Gallagher left.
I remember reading Kevin Cassidy in Gaelic life, saying Donegal should give him the job over Declan Bonner. Which was bizarre.
One of these managers that likes the limelight. All bluster. Really poor tactics In second half."
i cant understand how he is so highly regarded, has he managed many clubs to county titles?

McGleenan wasnt a pile better, Mickey Graham isnt perfect but at least he has the best interests of cavan football at heart, would have him over those mercenaries any day.

My god, imagine if banty had got the donegal gig, now that would be a travesty given the talent at their disposal

HuddHastings (Longford) - Posts: 78 - 02/11/2020 12:18:47    2304360

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Don't think he has managed much at Club. He managed the Monaghan u17s a few years ago to Ulster. Then took over the Monaghan U20s. Cavan beat them in Breffni.

You'd still think the older Monaghan players like the Highes brothers would have been more direct
.because it was 35 minutes of defensive football

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2221 - 02/11/2020 13:38:38    2304407

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Replying To blueman1903:  "If Cavan are so poor of a team how did we beat your great Monaghan team 2 years in a row in the Ulster championship, you are blaming banty for this years loss who do you blame for last years loss ? Maybe we aren't a great team but definitely ye are not any better than us , more than likely if you didn't bust yourselves early on in the league you wouldn't be in div 1 either flogging the same old players year in year out just to try staying there."
Right....I never said Monaghan are or were great in my post. Calm yourself. Ye were 7 points down at half time and probably should have been a lot more.

Banty sent the team out to sit back off Cavan. Which they did and allowed Cavan back in. There was a clear tactic shift. Anyone could see that. Possibly not Banty's idea but he is in charge. Appointment of that fella was a serious step back. Failed in Meath, Failed in Wexford....not one division 1 or 2 team would have touched him but of course our CB did.

Last year...Ye were a far better team on the day and that was fatigue and MOR staleness. On Saturday Cavan were missing key players and are weaker for it. Ye have the much better manager and will make another Ulster final I expect....and where that's much better showing than Monaghan I expect the drought for Cavan to continue.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 189 - 02/11/2020 14:34:43    2304432

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Replying To HuddHastings:  "For the life of me i cannot figure out how Banty has somehow carved out a reputation as a top manager.
Lets look back on his cv. It reminds me a bit of Mick McCarthy, he gives good press and soundbites so media love him.

Managed Monaghan for few years in the late noughties where he admittedly made them a bit more competitive and harder to beat, they won nothing though. That same group under Malachy O'Rourke would win 2 ulsters, get to an all ireland semi final and stay in division 1 for 7+ years

Somehow landed the Meath job where he was an unmitigated disaster, the only notable feature of his time there was bringing a 40 year old Geraghty out of retirement. Not much of a long term view there. Left behind a big ball

Wexford job next where he was relatively mediocre but undoubtedly left a huge bill and expenses tab

..which leads to Saturday, a 7 point commanding lead at halftime against a cavan side whose confidence was on the floor, All his forwards scoring well (O'Hanlon, McManus, Bannigan). Thus follows one of the most cowardly negative 2nd half performances i have seen, parking the bus and attempting to keep ball for an entire half. The tactics pretty much nullified all the attackers who had been going well and 2 fisted points from defenders the sum total of efforts. Cavan suddenly realised around the 60th minute that Monaghan had no intent on leaving their half so went for it. Monaghan and banty got what they deserved.

All this followed a week when he talked about how monaghan were 'embarassed' by Cavan last year, ridiculously OTT statement and insulting to O'Rourke and cavan"
Does he have a reputation as a top manager? It was amazing to me that he got that job. There were far better candidates out there.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 189 - 02/11/2020 14:36:36    2304434

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Had time for a think on this since Saturday afternoon happened. Bit of an odd one no doubt. No one seemingly gave Cavan a chance, purely on league form, even though the bulk of both teams were the same as last year when Cavan won convincingly enough. Some had Monaghan to win this pulling up and the bookies were against Cavan covering a 6 point loss. Very silly imo, any look into the history of the 2 in the last 30 odd years would show you this is a tight derby no matter where each team are at that time and rarely a kick of a ball between them. Cavan always had a chance here.

Monaghan seem obsessed with the league. It's now over 5 years since they've been in the Ulster final, all the time they've been in Division 1. They had better Ulster success when down in Div 2 and 3. Are they killing themselves surviving in Div 1, and not fit to play championship by the time it comes around? This obsession with the league also lends to the way they view the opposition. All the talk before was Monaghan were Div 1, while Cavan were Div 3. Notwithstanding the point that a kick of a ball last year or this year could have Cavan still in Div 1, or even promoted back there this year if the pandemic hadn't halted Spring momentum. Slight score change last weekend and the 2 teams could both be in Div 2 together next year either. But the obsession that Monaghan were somehow miles ahead of Cavan based on the league has not told true for many years now. This was always tight.

More talk seems to be on how good Graham was, and how bad Banty was. You'll probably find its a bit of both, and not a bit of both either. Monaghan did seem to stop playing in the 2nd half, but there was definitely a bit about Cavan holding their cards close. Do you go out all guns blazing in the 3rd quarter and bring it back close, only for it to be too early and Monaghan to get a kick and finish the job, or do you finish at the right time near the end. Cavan have finished all their last games strongly, even the losses. They are a younger, fitter team, and this showed through with the way they drew back in the last 10/15 minutes. And for all the talk of Monaghan throwing the game away, can some credit please be given to the way that Cavan managed the game and some of the superb long range scoring from Fortune, Galligan, Smith, and McKiernan when we came from 6 down. Monaghan may cry that they lost the game on the line, but Cavan had to go out and win it in order for Monaghan to lose it.

Cavan even judged extra time better imo. Play first one against the breeze, but get the second period with the wind which always has a few minutes extra tacked on too. Things fell the right way and we got enough chances converted to make sure we took the win. So maybe it wasn't just the sidelines who won and lost it. They can only do so much, the players still had to be the ones who go out and kick the ball. Monaghan over the 90 odd minutes were simply not good enough, and Cavan were at the right time. There's not a lot between the sides, and more credit where it's due that we won the game with as good a squad and not that ye threw it away. And forget about the league, it's not everything as we just saw. Well done Cavan. On to Antrim next weekend now.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 986 - 02/11/2020 14:46:23    2304439

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Had time for a think on this since Saturday afternoon happened. Bit of an odd one no doubt. No one seemingly gave Cavan a chance, purely on league form, even though the bulk of both teams were the same as last year when Cavan won convincingly enough. Some had Monaghan to win this pulling up and the bookies were against Cavan covering a 6 point loss. Very silly imo, any look into the history of the 2 in the last 30 odd years would show you this is a tight derby no matter where each team are at that time and rarely a kick of a ball between them. Cavan always had a chance here.

Monaghan seem obsessed with the league. It's now over 5 years since they've been in the Ulster final, all the time they've been in Division 1. They had better Ulster success when down in Div 2 and 3. Are they killing themselves surviving in Div 1, and not fit to play championship by the time it comes around? This obsession with the league also lends to the way they view the opposition. All the talk before was Monaghan were Div 1, while Cavan were Div 3. Notwithstanding the point that a kick of a ball last year or this year could have Cavan still in Div 1, or even promoted back there this year if the pandemic hadn't halted Spring momentum. Slight score change last weekend and the 2 teams could both be in Div 2 together next year either. But the obsession that Monaghan were somehow miles ahead of Cavan based on the league has not told true for many years now. This was always tight.

More talk seems to be on how good Graham was, and how bad Banty was. You'll probably find its a bit of both, and not a bit of both either. Monaghan did seem to stop playing in the 2nd half, but there was definitely a bit about Cavan holding their cards close. Do you go out all guns blazing in the 3rd quarter and bring it back close, only for it to be too early and Monaghan to get a kick and finish the job, or do you finish at the right time near the end. Cavan have finished all their last games strongly, even the losses. They are a younger, fitter team, and this showed through with the way they drew back in the last 10/15 minutes. And for all the talk of Monaghan throwing the game away, can some credit please be given to the way that Cavan managed the game and some of the superb long range scoring from Fortune, Galligan, Smith, and McKiernan when we came from 6 down. Monaghan may cry that they lost the game on the line, but Cavan had to go out and win it in order for Monaghan to lose it.

Cavan even judged extra time better imo. Play first one against the breeze, but get the second period with the wind which always has a few minutes extra tacked on too. Things fell the right way and we got enough chances converted to make sure we took the win. So maybe it wasn't just the sidelines who won and lost it. They can only do so much, the players still had to be the ones who go out and kick the ball. Monaghan over the 90 odd minutes were simply not good enough, and Cavan were at the right time. There's not a lot between the sides, and more credit where it's due that we won the game with as good a squad and not that ye threw it away. And forget about the league, it's not everything as we just saw. Well done Cavan. On to Antrim next weekend now."
I think thats mostly a fair summary. Cavan did have to go and take advantages that Monaghan gave them. FWIW I would have had us a slight favourites going in and expecting a tight game. I didnt expect Banty/mgmt team to do what they did in the second half either. Ah well.

The only issue I would say is around Division 1... I think Monaghan are doing the right thing there. They may not have been in a final since 2015 but they won it :) While in Division 1 (we lost league SF by a point to Dublin the same year). Since then we were in an all Ireland QF in 2017 and SF in 2018. I don't think keeping yourself at the top costs you in the way you outline.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 189 - 02/11/2020 15:05:46    2304444

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Replying To Gator:  "I think thats mostly a fair summary. Cavan did have to go and take advantages that Monaghan gave them. FWIW I would have had us a slight favourites going in and expecting a tight game. I didnt expect Banty/mgmt team to do what they did in the second half either. Ah well.

The only issue I would say is around Division 1... I think Monaghan are doing the right thing there. They may not have been in a final since 2015 but they won it :) While in Division 1 (we lost league SF by a point to Dublin the same year). Since then we were in an all Ireland QF in 2017 and SF in 2018. I don't think keeping yourself at the top costs you in the way you outline."
Fair on that point about what ye did in 17 and 18. I still think that a lot bought into the difference in divisions though, even though there isn't a lot between the sides, even the media who acted like there was chasm between them. Absolutely I'd like to still be in Div 1 myself, but maybe there is something about going down a level, refreshing, bringing new players in, that hanging on by your fingernails every year, and thinking being there is better than not being there. I do think it affected a lot of your thinking, and in that you should be walking over Cavan which is never the case. A little bit less in the league and more on championship. Despite what happened last weekend on the last round of the league, I know where I'd rather be today - still in championship.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 986 - 02/11/2020 15:27:09    2304458

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Monaghan - 1 McManus retirement away from Div 4

Jimjo (Cavan) - Posts: 63 - 02/11/2020 16:58:47    2304511

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Fair on that point about what ye did in 17 and 18. I still think that a lot bought into the difference in divisions though, even though there isn't a lot between the sides, even the media who acted like there was chasm between them. Absolutely I'd like to still be in Div 1 myself, but maybe there is something about going down a level, refreshing, bringing new players in, that hanging on by your fingernails every year, and thinking being there is better than not being there. I do think it affected a lot of your thinking, and in that you should be walking over Cavan which is never the case. A little bit less in the league and more on championship. Despite what happened last weekend on the last round of the league, I know where I'd rather be today - still in championship."
Personally, I would never underestimate Cavan as an opposition. Even when we were winning during the better years....we found it tough to get results against Cavan. Always a tight affair.

You might be right regarding the drop down....but It would make no difference with the current manager at the helm. It needs someone more astute. Banty is passionate etc but he has no head for tactics and development.

Cavan have another great shout at an Ulster Final....I think It would be tough to win it and end that drought but stranger things have happened (especially this year!)

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 189 - 02/11/2020 17:04:42    2304515

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Replying To Jimjo:  "Monaghan - 1 McManus retirement away from Div 4"
Cavan - 1 Division away from Div 4.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 189 - 02/11/2020 17:21:02    2304521

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Monaghan went from having their greatest manager of all time to well. . Banty

He greatly underachieved with easily one of the most gifted Monaghan sides the first time out, some excellent ballers in that side

Had a disaster at Meath off the back of that

I just don't rate him and at the time I was scratching my head when he got the Monaghan job again

Monaghan won't be winning much under him imo

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20040 - 02/11/2020 17:48:10    2304531

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