National Forum

Pre Season Winter Tournaments, Time To Go?

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Would a player really be going on in years to come talking how they played in a January tournament game as opposed to a normal run of mill friendly. Oh because they may get a piece of tin for playing in some of January games. Yeah right!"
Yes it's considered more of an honour to play a competitive game for your county than a challenge match, the difference in crowds that attend both should help you understand why. All there is at the end of any tournament is a piece of tin as you put it, maybe they should all be cancelled and just play challenge matches throughout the year?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 06/01/2020 17:03:17    2257811

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Replying To Soma:  "Yes it's considered more of an honour to play a competitive game for your county than a challenge match, the difference in crowds that attend both should help you understand why. All there is at the end of any tournament is a piece of tin as you put it, maybe they should all be cancelled and just play challenge matches throughout the year?"
A competitive game in a pre season tournament which is basically a friendly? You as usual miss the point!
I dont think any player would care more about playing in an o Byrne cup game than an other friendly. It would be the same and only national league and championship game s would be higher

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3746 - 06/01/2020 18:17:17    2257828

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I can't understand why people are coming at these harmless games with such venom at an unclogged time of the year in terms of games. If you want to argue it diminishes the sigerson/fitzgibbon cups, fair enough, they're great competitions. Otherwise, I really don't know what leg you're standing on.

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 341 - 06/01/2020 19:54:16    2257842

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Replying To KillingFields:  "A competitive game in a pre season tournament which is basically a friendly? You as usual miss the point!
I dont think any player would care more about playing in an o Byrne cup game than an other friendly. It would be the same and only national league and championship game s would be higher"
If it would be the same when what's the problem?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1564 - 06/01/2020 20:36:17    2257852

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This thread is coming down to why have them versus why not have them.

Normally you need a good reason to change the status quo. I don't think there is one.

Other reasons to have them.

There's more interest in a preseason cup than a friendly.
It's not only GAA where these games happen. If you look at soccer you have charity shields and super cups. Preseason mini tournaments. The series of club friendlies now in preseason that take place across the world are now part of the International Champions Cup.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4504 - 06/01/2020 20:50:44    2257855

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Pre season tournaments in my opinion has its pros and cons.
Pros:
1. Will show who is more committed and will fight for their place on their team.
2. Gets teams more prepared for the league and the rest of the season.
3. Gives fans who are less fortunate than others something to look forward to during the festive season.
4. In certain cases it is good for some clubs across the country who will have the opportunity to host a match.
5. Could find special talent from experimenting.
6. A trophy is a trophy and medal in the back pocket is something to be proud of no matter the competition.
Cons:
1. It's Christmas time, players deserve a break.
2. Worst time for a player to seriously injure themselves.
3. Not enough broadcasting on tv or through the media.
4. Not the best weather to play in or stand in.

Missing any?

oakleafersir (Derry) - Posts: 808 - 07/01/2020 02:27:05    2257887

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I don't think they should go but I definitely think they should be put on hold on for an extra month or so and the league should be started later. This wont happen but with the league starting so early there isn't much of an off season, if there even is one at all (depending on club football), which will eventually take its toal on players. Not all of them, but with such a hectic schedule and particularly over Christmas you can bet that in years to come more and more intercounty players will continue to opt out of county football and we will see more players head off like Cathal McShane (AFL) or Matt Fitzpatrick (soccer) to try something else. Something should be done.

boman11 (Antrim) - Posts: 237 - 07/01/2020 07:44:38    2257891

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Replying To boman11:  "I don't think they should go but I definitely think they should be put on hold on for an extra month or so and the league should be started later. This wont happen but with the league starting so early there isn't much of an off season, if there even is one at all (depending on club football), which will eventually take its toal on players. Not all of them, but with such a hectic schedule and particularly over Christmas you can bet that in years to come more and more intercounty players will continue to opt out of county football and we will see more players head off like Cathal McShane (AFL) or Matt Fitzpatrick (soccer) to try something else. Something should be done."
I'd agree with this. The main issue is the start of the National Leagues.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4504 - 07/01/2020 09:39:55    2257905

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The Inter County juggernaut is out of control, a lot of counties started guys back in November, now they have taken control of Third Level GAA & squeezed their competitions, next up will be the abolishment of them or just ignore them & let them die slowly as they have done with Post Primary GAA competitions. Starting games in December & January & many Inter County mangers insisting their boards don't set C'ship games in April & then 12 weeks closure in the Summer months, why would you bother your arse playing club football or hurling. By far the most dysfunctional organisation when it comes to scheduling games for club players. The current leadership are a joke & totally incompetent, but still drawing the big bucks.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 07/01/2020 14:18:18    2257983

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Replying To boman11:  "I don't think they should go but I definitely think they should be put on hold on for an extra month or so and the league should be started later. This wont happen but with the league starting so early there isn't much of an off season, if there even is one at all (depending on club football), which will eventually take its toal on players. Not all of them, but with such a hectic schedule and particularly over Christmas you can bet that in years to come more and more intercounty players will continue to opt out of county football and we will see more players head off like Cathal McShane (AFL) or Matt Fitzpatrick (soccer) to try something else. Something should be done."
How many senior club football games, league and championship, have been played in Antrim since the end of September?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 07/01/2020 22:12:37    2258080

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Replying To Soma:  "How many senior club football games, league and championship, have been played in Antrim since the end of September?"
Not exactly sure what dates the leagues wrapped up but it was around end of summer/start of September, followed by championship which didn't end until mid November (for my club anyway), some later than others, with refixed league games somewhere in there too

This is all followed by u21 championships and schools and colleges football championships, which all take place in the "off season" and before you know it you're straight back into the county scene and then some clubs pre season will start earlier than others aswell, most probably having started already or next week. It's scandalous, players well being and fitness need to be taken in to account

boman11 (Antrim) - Posts: 237 - 08/01/2020 07:25:51    2258118

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Replying To boman11:  "Not exactly sure what dates the leagues wrapped up but it was around end of summer/start of September, followed by championship which didn't end until mid November (for my club anyway), some later than others, with refixed league games somewhere in there too

This is all followed by u21 championships and schools and colleges football championships, which all take place in the "off season" and before you know it you're straight back into the county scene and then some clubs pre season will start earlier than others aswell, most probably having started already or next week. It's scandalous, players well being and fitness need to be taken in to account"
I had a look there to see. According to their website, Antrim junior football championship was finished in September, intermediate on the 1st weekend of October, and the only 2 senior clubs to play in October were the 2 who reached the county final which went to a replay. The vast majority of adult footballers in Antrim had no games in October, November or December, and only 2 or 3 games in September. The league in Antrim starts at the end of March, if clubs are back training already its because lads want to be doing it and not because the fixtures are forcing them.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 08/01/2020 10:11:06    2258137

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Replying To Soma:  "I had a look there to see. According to their website, Antrim junior football championship was finished in September, intermediate on the 1st weekend of October, and the only 2 senior clubs to play in October were the 2 who reached the county final which went to a replay. The vast majority of adult footballers in Antrim had no games in October, November or December, and only 2 or 3 games in September. The league in Antrim starts at the end of March, if clubs are back training already its because lads want to be doing it and not because the fixtures are forcing them."
originally I was talking about the intercounty scene and the leagues starting back very early, with the likes of McKenna cup etc even on before that and most county panels training schedules, if not all, would be well underway before Christmas.

As for the ending of championships in Antrim, there are over 10 county footballers in the Antrim panel who played in Club championship finals between Senior and Intermediate. As an intercounty footballer there is very little of an off season if there is one at all and for amateurs this is far too much of an ask, players will continue to walk away from county set ups in years to come and it will become more and more. For an amateur player training almost all year round you have to ask yourself are the rewards worth it? And for smaller counties such as Antrim I would have to say no they aren't.

Most county players will be the same, training and playing flat out all year with club and county only for the club season to end and to be followed straight up with the beginning of another county season. Its a serious ask for lads who are working full time jobs and have families and have to make the journey a few times every week to attend sessions in the middle of December. I think its becoming more unrealistic for the average county player and no doubt we will see that sooner rather than later

boman11 (Antrim) - Posts: 237 - 08/01/2020 10:31:08    2258141

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Replying To Soma:  "I had a look there to see. According to their website, Antrim junior football championship was finished in September, intermediate on the 1st weekend of October, and the only 2 senior clubs to play in October were the 2 who reached the county final which went to a replay. The vast majority of adult footballers in Antrim had no games in October, November or December, and only 2 or 3 games in September. The league in Antrim starts at the end of March, if clubs are back training already its because lads want to be doing it and not because the fixtures are forcing them."
We have cup competitions usually starting at the beginning of March. These would be our traditional divisional championships and would still carry prestige.

The calendar in Antrim is definitely better than the one I used to play to in Meath and to my knowledge club competitions are run pretty well throughout Ulster.

The April club window made the calendar worse for me as a club player in Meath when it came in, with the start of competitions pushed forward in the year.

When you look at the calendar then for those playing Colleges and inter county, the schedule around this time of the year is a bit farcical and the fixtures review committee didn't really get much of a grip on trying to improve things here.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4504 - 08/01/2020 10:35:13    2258142

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Replying To Whammo86:  "We have cup competitions usually starting at the beginning of March. These would be our traditional divisional championships and would still carry prestige.

The calendar in Antrim is definitely better than the one I used to play to in Meath and to my knowledge club competitions are run pretty well throughout Ulster.

The April club window made the calendar worse for me as a club player in Meath when it came in, with the start of competitions pushed forward in the year.

When you look at the calendar then for those playing Colleges and inter county, the schedule around this time of the year is a bit farcical and the fixtures review committee didn't really get much of a grip on trying to improve things here."
Antrim look to me to have a very good fixtures calendar, and the actions of the chairman last year in the semi-final showed that the top table are prepared to make sensible decisions that are to the benefit of the players. I don't think burnout is an issue at all for most adult GAA players, lots of lads spend the winter playing soccer just to keep fit.
Yes there is still an issue with college and intercounty overlapping but the % of players that affects is tiny, most clubs don't even have a player playing colleges. At some stage players themselves have to make a choice, the whole fixture calendar can't be organised around the very small % of lads who are caught up in deciding between playing colleges and intercounty.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 08/01/2020 11:50:09    2258167

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Replying To Soma:  "Antrim look to me to have a very good fixtures calendar, and the actions of the chairman last year in the semi-final showed that the top table are prepared to make sensible decisions that are to the benefit of the players. I don't think burnout is an issue at all for most adult GAA players, lots of lads spend the winter playing soccer just to keep fit.
Yes there is still an issue with college and intercounty overlapping but the % of players that affects is tiny, most clubs don't even have a player playing colleges. At some stage players themselves have to make a choice, the whole fixture calendar can't be organised around the very small % of lads who are caught up in deciding between playing colleges and intercounty."
Yeah the Antrim schedule is good.

They just play matches.

Teams care enough about the league when they're playing those games.

Knockout championship in August/September is hard to beat.

I think what's good in Antrim is that the don't cater for every unique circumstance.

You're a dual player you could play football 1 night and hurling 2 nights later. County players just don't play really once championship starts until we're out, games never get held up.

Reserve games are played alongside the senior games.

I do think other counties could just be doing more of the same.

The inter county/college clash is a real problem.

There's not much of an overlap between club and college but there's a decent county college overlap, that could be avoided by moving National Leagues 4 weeks later.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4504 - 08/01/2020 14:57:43    2258212

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An absolute cracker of a game in Armagh tonight but this won't make any news...would be a different story if they were knocking lumps out of each other..

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 08/01/2020 21:09:31    2258283

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A crowd of 5,100 watched an absolute cracker in Armagh tonight. Tyrone 3-18 Armagh 3-15...yes that's a total of 40 scores in a pulsating end to end encounter..and we want to put an end to it??? Crazy!

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 08/01/2020 21:37:27    2258287

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Replying To mayotyroneman:  "An absolute cracker of a game in Armagh tonight but this won't make any news...would be a different story if they were knocking lumps out of each other.."
Yes, fantastic game with over 5000 in attendance - a fair, hard hitting game with some wonderful scores - a credit to both teams. Tyrone operating a level above ourselves in terms of speed but I think it's a level we can get close to this year. Have to say I love the McKenna Cup competition!

ardmhacha (Armagh) - Posts: 172 - 08/01/2020 22:18:19    2258297

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Declan Bonner coming out to say that Donegal simply wont have the numbers to play against Monaghan in McKenna cup, absolutely shambolic to think that the Ulster champions would be unable to field a team. He has put this down to having 13 players unavailable as they are preparing for Sigerson cup, I am not having a go at Donegal at all here, this is down to a ludicrous schedule for intercounty players over the winter break, surely the ulster champions being unable to field a team should be a huge wake up call that something needs to be done about this. I don't suggest getting rid of these competitions but there should definitely be a rethink in the schedule and the dates these competitions begin.

boman11 (Antrim) - Posts: 237 - 09/01/2020 15:17:24    2258434

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