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Meath U20 2020

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Very disappointing showing today. Beaten in every position on the field. The main question is how did a team that showed such promise 3 years ago and backed up by an even better team 12 months later fall behind so badly. For me it's the attention and commitment that Dublin give their teams between 17-20 that bring big rewards and develop players into top class seniors. We don't do that. Coach appointed in December and expected to turn it around in no time. The in and out of the senior players doesn't help to develop playing patterns that work like Dublin did in the second half today. IMHO the players that are eligible for next year should be taken aside now and be given programmes to develop whatever they are lacking instead of packing them back to the club where most of them will be expected to lead the line and deliver in the league week in week out without any attention to long term development. We can continue to hope that something happens out of the blue but it hasn't worked too well for us so far. Great credit to every young fella who goes out and gives it his all and tries to bring credit to their county. I think they deserve better. ABK67 (Meath) - Posts: 62 - 22/02/2020 19:12:26 2269054 Link
Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: "Our embarrassing record at this age continues. Since 2001, 1 Leinster final appearance at 21's/20's, 0 titles. Bare in mind we won Leinster minor in 06 and 08 and won the 17's in 17 and 18. That's the number 1 reason for me why we have fallen off at senior. Dublin have 8 of the last 10 Leinster and are about to make it 9/11. 3 years ago the Meath 17's beat Dublin by 5 in Navan and again by 5 in Drogheda. They looked so far off it today. I know Shane Walsh, Sean Ryan and Cian McBride weren't playing but they don't make that much of a difference. It was extremely poor and has honestly made me question my faith in Meath football. These were the lads we were hoping on to bring Meath football back. Last year destroyed by Laois and this year by Dublin. Fair enough if it was close but completely hammered. A long drive to Killarney now" Turns out the management weren't quite as good as you were insisting earlier on in the thread. Seems there's a certain clique running things in the county and they perhaps aren't as talented or smart as they think they are. Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1316 - 22/02/2020 19:24:50 2269058 Link
I agree with a lot of your assessments lads. It wasn't an easy watch, particularly considering these guys are a proven team, it was a pleasure following them in 2017 and 2018 as minors and I think I speak for many when I say I felt they could push on in this grade, they're much better than a 14 point defeat against any team. I have to say that the overarching issue with this defeat is what a previous poster said; we have a systemic issue in rearing players from the age of 16/17 up to U20 and young adulthood. These are pivotal years in a person's life. They have exams, leave school, start studying, start working, start driving, introduce girls (or lads) into their lives, and discover the world of alcohol on their weekends. They are introduced into senior club set-ups with 25 and 30 year olds who aren't their friends, which does not harness their potential as young players and subsequently football becomes 4/5th in their list of priorities very fast or they even call it a day altogether. Life comes knocking. Its a difficult task to maintain youth and it is one we are failing in very notably, and for a long time. 16/17 year old schoolboys with the raw goods are always going to be ripe for the picking, its the intervening years into their early 20s where they either make it or not. Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 22/02/2020 19:51:06 2269061 Link
Replying To Crinigan: "Turns out the management weren't quite as good as you were insisting earlier on in the thread. Seems there's a certain clique running things in the county and they perhaps aren't as talented or smart as they think they are." I said the manager had the credentials to be the 20's manager. Didn't guarantee success. Also Brian Farrell done nothing with the 20's, Barry Callaghan did nothing. No manager has. Much more an overall structure issue than any management issue LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1454 - 22/02/2020 20:35:28 2269068 Link
Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: "I said the manager had the credentials to be the 20's manager. Didn't guarantee success. Also Brian Farrell done nothing with the 20's, Barry Callaghan did nothing. No manager has. Much more an overall structure issue than any management issue" What is the clique? This management team were from a diverse range of clubs and backgrounds. Disappointing result for the management and players - I am sure they are gutted! I really thought this was a good squad - still think it was and is! I am sure these lads will bounce back! But maybe there is a bigger issue at play in terms of basic structures - I don't know! Tom grey the Dublin manager has been involved with development squads since this group was under 13 or 14 - I am sure that must help! ASaminthehand (Meath) - Posts: 422 - 22/02/2020 21:02:40 2269087 Link
Replying To Talking_Sense: "The U20's destroyed . I watched them a few weeks back against Monahan . Monaghan won by a point I think but for long periods Monagahan played Meath of the park. The Farney has away more polished footballers and were really well setup. For our part we have serious issue with Schools football. Look at these successful counties there primary and secondary schools competitions are incredible and the schools in Ulster for example are prepped to the gils tactically and skills wise and train perhaps up to 3 times a week. Asides St Pats sure three quarters of Meath schools are knocking about Div 3 and 4 in North Leinster, the schools teams hardly train and tactically well there are no tactics. It's joke stuff . Monaghan turned a huge corner when they got McCartans and Carrickmacross schools back in the MacRory Cup. Meath have shocking schools setup and I also believe we are away behind on the coaching and tactically neus when managing and setting up teams. I mean that was a trouncing today, embarrassing stuff." This is a good point. Besides Pats no secondary school consistently operates at a high level. Ashbourne have been good lately and Dunshaughlin had 1 good year at Campions age. The Sigerson cup point for me is massive. Ronan Ryan playing does Carlow brought him on huge amounts. But apart from him and James McEntee who else has been part of successful Sigerson teams. B Conlon never played it, T O'Reilly didn't. Devine played a bit with Maynooth. Jones was in America so didnt. Can't remember Cillian O'Sullivan playing it. Did Bryan McMahon play it? Joey Wallace a bit in Maynooth. It's a big gap. Compared to the Dubs, Donegal, Monaghan, Tyrone and Kerry who always seems to have solid representation LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1454 - 22/02/2020 21:26:56 2269104 Link
Is the college argument not kinda putting the cart before the horse ? If the players are good enough they'll play big roles in college teams. If they're not good enough they won't. Or are ye saying lads are going to college and not playing? CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1642 - 22/02/2020 22:40:34 2269143 Link
Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: "This is a good point. Besides Pats no secondary school consistently operates at a high level. Ashbourne have been good lately and Dunshaughlin had 1 good year at Campions age. The Sigerson cup point for me is massive. Ronan Ryan playing does Carlow brought him on huge amounts. But apart from him and James McEntee who else has been part of successful Sigerson teams. B Conlon never played it, T O'Reilly didn't. Devine played a bit with Maynooth. Jones was in America so didnt. Can't remember Cillian O'Sullivan playing it. Did Bryan McMahon play it? Joey Wallace a bit in Maynooth. It's a big gap. Compared to the Dubs, Donegal, Monaghan, Tyrone and Kerry who always seems to have solid representation" Hopefully a change coming as Lynch, Mitchell and O Connor playing Freshers 1 for DCU. Flynn, Hickey, Ryan also playing Freshers 1 for TUD. Walsh with UCD this year too at the same level. But agree entirely that Sigerson should be part of the learning curve as it's second only to inter county senior in standard. ABK67 (Meath) - Posts: 62 - 22/02/2020 22:49:00 2269147 Link
Replying To CastleBravo: "Is the college argument not kinda putting the cart before the horse ? If the players are good enough they'll play big roles in college teams. If they're not good enough they won't. Or are ye saying lads are going to college and not playing?" Agree. Absolute nonsense talking about college teams as if that's our issue. Players don't improve that much playing Sigerson Cup (it's a few matches played over a couple of weekends on rubbish pitches) and whether you've a lot of players or none at all playing, it doesn't mean much. Secondary school football though is a big issue and it seems that Meath schools haven't been doing well. Pats could do with having a bit of humility about themselves, they are nothing special in grand scheme of things - lads get big ideas about themselves when they make the Pats team and seem to carry it with them for a few years. Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1316 - 22/02/2020 23:07:51 2269153 Link
Replying To ASaminthehand: "What is the clique? This management team were from a diverse range of clubs and backgrounds. Disappointing result for the management and players - I am sure they are gutted! I really thought this was a good squad - still think it was and is! I am sure these lads will bounce back! But maybe there is a bigger issue at play in terms of basic structures - I don't know! Tom grey the Dublin manager has been involved with development squads since this group was under 13 or 14 - I am sure that must help!" Let me tell ye something. Our schools football is sub standard compared to a lot of other counties that is the first problem . Some schools not even trying to improve the schools teams. They just turn out to participate .Kids are not exposed to the same standards as they are in Ulster or Connacht or Munster - period The Development model in Meath coaching wise is completely off the charts. In Meath if your an ex County player be it U21 or Senior you will get a job coaching the business end of these Development teams. - Period I am not naming names but let's look at a few examples. Let's look at today's Management Team. How many of them have actually coached at Senior Level or extensively at underage level. Take the Minor Managament Team. How many of them have coached extensively at underage level or coached extensively at Senior Level. In just these two examples it is put out there by the Meath County Board we have a rolls Royce management team with "big" names. But peel it all back and most of not all have no coaching experience And look at the new Ratoath manager. Landed Meath U20 job with absolute no experience and now in with Ratoath. Absolutely crazy stuff in Meath. And then your all wondering why we are in the shite we are in with our Seniors, U20's and Minors every year. Shte Schools standards and terrible coaching standards Talking_Sense (Meath)* - Posts: 209 - 22/02/2020 23:29:09 2269161 Link
Replying To CastleBravo: "Is the college argument not kinda putting the cart before the horse ? If the players are good enough they'll play big roles in college teams. If they're not good enough they won't. Or are ye saying lads are going to college and not playing?" Little bit of both is what I see happening LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1454 - 23/02/2020 00:40:16 2269177 Link
Replying To Talking_Sense: "Let me tell ye something. Our schools football is sub standard compared to a lot of other counties that is the first problem . Some schools not even trying to improve the schools teams. They just turn out to participate .Kids are not exposed to the same standards as they are in Ulster or Connacht or Munster - period The Development model in Meath coaching wise is completely off the charts. In Meath if your an ex County player be it U21 or Senior you will get a job coaching the business end of these Development teams. - Period I am not naming names but let's look at a few examples. Let's look at today's Management Team. How many of them have actually coached at Senior Level or extensively at underage level. Take the Minor Managament Team. How many of them have coached extensively at underage level or coached extensively at Senior Level. In just these two examples it is put out there by the Meath County Board we have a rolls Royce management team with "big" names. But peel it all back and most of not all have no coaching experience And look at the new Ratoath manager. Landed Meath U20 job with absolute no experience and now in with Ratoath. Absolutely crazy stuff in Meath. And then your all wondering why we are in the shite we are in with our Seniors, U20's and Minors every year. Shte Schools standards and terrible coaching standards" This is my point about the clique. It's jobs for the lads - Brian Farrell, Kevin Reilly, Joe Sheridan, Ger Robinson etc how did they get roles with Meath despite only having little or no managing experience. Do they have coaching badges? What are their philosophies? Why them and not say some of the underage coaches at Ratoath or Colmcilles etc? How many twitter followers do you need to become a Meath underage manager? Coaching a Meath team shouldn't be given out lightly yet current administration giving out roles to inexperienced former players like confetti. It gives the vibe of a GPA clique and it's not in the county's interests. And people wonder why we are getting hammered at u20 level? Crinigan (Meath)* - Posts: 1316 - 23/02/2020 08:37:15 2269194 Link
Replying To Talking_Sense: "Let me tell ye something. Our schools football is sub standard compared to a lot of other counties that is the first problem . Some schools not even trying to improve the schools teams. They just turn out to participate .Kids are not exposed to the same standards as they are in Ulster or Connacht or Munster - period The Development model in Meath coaching wise is completely off the charts. In Meath if your an ex County player be it U21 or Senior you will get a job coaching the business end of these Development teams. - Period I am not naming names but let's look at a few examples. Let's look at today's Management Team. How many of them have actually coached at Senior Level or extensively at underage level. Take the Minor Managament Team. How many of them have coached extensively at underage level or coached extensively at Senior Level. In just these two examples it is put out there by the Meath County Board we have a rolls Royce management team with "big" names. But peel it all back and most of not all have no coaching experience And look at the new Ratoath manager. Landed Meath U20 job with absolute no experience and now in with Ratoath. Absolutely crazy stuff in Meath. And then your all wondering why we are in the shite we are in with our Seniors, U20's and Minors every year. Shte Schools standards and terrible coaching standards" I have to agree. at least one of the u20 management team has no coaching experience of any kind not even at club level yet is give a role coaching our county u20 team. madness bobjaffacake (Meath)* - Posts: 1400 - 23/02/2020 09:14:55 2269201 Link
Forget about the college argument. Dublin attacked as a team at pace with men off the shoulder and pumped numbers along their own 45 to stem any Meath attack. By comparison - Our attacks were laboured and at pedestrian pace and they walked through our exposed defence. Too many players let the game pass them by. The cardinal sin of any player is not to leave all their efforts out on the pitch. Our players could play another game this morning such was the lack of energy disposed! They don't need to learn that at college football... I can give them a tutorial this morning! Also the management never left the technical area and started the same 15 in the same position at the start of the 2nd half as they did the first!!! No doubting the talent on that pitch yesterday and no doubting the great footballing pedigree of the men on the line but unfortunately it didn't happen! Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard! Meath gaa need to learn that. GenderNeutral (Meath) - Posts: 112 - 23/02/2020 09:28:32 2269204 Link
Disapointing result again for Meath underage, the lack of progress from minor to U-21 has been poor of years and even if you only look at the last couple of years alone it is alarming. In 2016 our minor team with the likes of Campion, Devine and Conlon beat Dublin by 10 points, two years later they beat us by 10 points at U-20, thats a 20 point swing. Last year Dublin cantered to the Leinster U-20 title, hammering Laois (who had hammered Meath) in the final, two years earlier at minor level we were 10 points ahead of the same Dublin team at half time in Paranell Park but a few crazy managment decisions cost us dearly that day. This year its the same old story, but i do think its important to put it in the context with the absence of Walsh, Mc Bride and Ryan since we played them at minor level, this cant be underestimated. We would have struggled to get over Wexford without Walsh so yesterday is no surprise. The late apointment of the mangement team was a shambles and left them with up hill battle, next years under 20 management team needs to be apointed almost immediately so players who havent been in the spot light before can be identified and I am quite sure there would be a few late deveopers out there who havent played county before and need to commence S&C programmes straight away. I cant stress enough the importance of apointing a managment team for next year as soon as possilbe. U-20 players should solely focus on that level and not join up with the senior squad until the U-20 campaign is over, if we are depending on U-20 players to keep us in Div 1 we have no hope and realistically this years U-20 didnt play together until the Wexford game and yesterday they came up against a Dublin team who have been together all during the training and the difference was obvious to see. I wonder too about strength and conditioning in general within the county as we always seem to have a list of injuries when it comes to important games, our chances in Divsion 1 were poor before the campaign started becuase our squad was depleted with injuries, we just cant afford this. Is there enough going on in terms of player development between the ages of 17 and 20 (Dublin seem to be expceptional at this) is S&C just ceased as soon as the U-17 campaign finishes and a young player goes back to his club which mightnt even have a warm shower after training never mind S&C. We need to be looking at the bigger picture in terms of player development and not just isolated successes in the Gerry Reilly tournament or Leinster U-17. Our coaching needs to be more about quality than quantity, last years U-17's and 20's trained like slaves but tactically struggled and we have struggled in this department for years, always getting hit with early goals in big games and struggling to get into the game afterwards. We need to improve our coaching of goalkeepers, as we are going no where in this department, in other counties goalkeeping camps are set up for every U-14 goalkeeper in the county, it needs to begin at this age group or else we will always end up picking for a few decent shot stoppers who can belt the ball out long. As the point has been made on here before we are really struggling as schools levels, Pats are no longer the consistent force they were and in other areas of the county schools football is almost non-exsistent. If you go North of Navan there is almost nothing, the secondry school in Kells has produced many county footballers over the years but has rarely had a successful school team. Should the county board be trying to target a few schools in the county and put coaches in place to ensure there fortunes improve, the school in Kells picks from Gaeil Colmcille, Kilmainham, Drumbaragh, Carnaross and also has some of the players from St. Michaels, Cortown, Ballinlough, St. Ultans, Wolfe Tones. They should have a good team most years as should the likes of Dunshaughlin and Ashbourne. Thunderstruck (Meath) - Posts: 467 - 23/02/2020 09:38:11 2269206 Link
Replying To GenderNeutral: "Forget about the college argument. Dublin attacked as a team at pace with men off the shoulder and pumped numbers along their own 45 to stem any Meath attack. By comparison - Our attacks were laboured and at pedestrian pace and they walked through our exposed defence. Too many players let the game pass them by. The cardinal sin of any player is not to leave all their efforts out on the pitch. Our players could play another game this morning such was the lack of energy disposed! They don't need to learn that at college football... I can give them a tutorial this morning! Also the management never left the technical area and started the same 15 in the same position at the start of the 2nd half as they did the first!!! No doubting the talent on that pitch yesterday and no doubting the great footballing pedigree of the men on the line but unfortunately it didn't happen! Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard! Meath gaa need to learn that." This is the product of shocking coaching end of story. If you take a spin over any night to Development Squads it's death by drills and death by gym. No analysis of opposition teams or players it would seem to me and no practicing systems and setups to play certain teams it is non existent from what I see. Development players will warmup up for minimum 30 mins and then do drills and or gym for the rest. It's a joke. Coaches (most) in my few simply don't understand what is required to drive a Development team. Managers rolling out teams to go man on man every game is just madness. They Development Managars won't play the Kerry's, Dublin, Tyrones or the top counties often enough to drive higher standards and have coaches educate themselves on who the top players are to look out for it these teams for when it matters down the line , instead they run about tanking the Louths, the Wexford's, Sligo's and local Leinster teams etc and driving a narrative around the Gerry Reilly when the really top teams are not in it( why don't they ask Kerry, Tyrone, Down , Mayo all into a Gerry Reilly). So Meath Development needs a root and branch clear out and needs in my view a new man at the helm. They need money too because Development teams need to be sent to the top teams across all the age groups on a regular basis and proper coaches installed. If they are going to also keeping driving this Gerry Reilly they need to up the standard of it wholesale and only ask the top 8 big counties to it. Then we see how good we are and where we have to improve both on the line and the pitch. We are a coaching back water . Talking_Sense (Meath) - Posts: 209 - 23/02/2020 10:41:10 2269215 Link
Very disappointing result from a team that seemed promising up until this game! We're there any positives or good performances? Meathfootball1 (Meath) - Posts: 5 - 23/02/2020 14:54:13 2269281 Link
Replying To Irish_downunder: "being kept for senior" Some people just spread nonsense on this forum LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1454 - 23/02/2020 15:45:28 2269289 Link
Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: "I said the manager had the credentials to be the 20's manager. Didn't guarantee success. Also Brian Farrell done nothing with the 20's, Barry Callaghan did nothing. No manager has. Much more an overall structure issue than any management issue" I think there in lies the problem. Jumping from manager to manager with little to no preparation time given for this age. I know it isn't easy with the GAA chopping and changing the age groups around and the timing of the competition but why can't we appoint a group of coaches at U14 level and allow them take that group all the way up to u20/u21 instead of what we are doing now, which is one management group one year and another a next. Players are getting lost in between u17 and u20 as well. This Dublin u20 team began preperation for this competition in early October 2019, Meath didn't even have a management team in place until December 2019. Meath had little to no S&C, players coming and going between the Meath Senior footballers and hurlers, our four Meath seniors on the 20's squad only trained with this group for the first time the week of the first championship game against Wexford, and they trained with the seniors on Monday just gone (where Shane Walsh suffered his injury) and back in again with 20's yesterday. How can anyone expect success with this sort of carry on going on. BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 932 - 23/02/2020 16:38:11 2269318 Link
Replying To BigJoe14: "I think there in lies the problem. Jumping from manager to manager with little to no preparation time given for this age. I know it isn't easy with the GAA chopping and changing the age groups around and the timing of the competition but why can't we appoint a group of coaches at U14 level and allow them take that group all the way up to u20/u21 instead of what we are doing now, which is one management group one year and another a next. Players are getting lost in between u17 and u20 as well. This Dublin u20 team began preperation for this competition in early October 2019, Meath didn't even have a management team in place until December 2019. Meath had little to no S&C, players coming and going between the Meath Senior footballers and hurlers, our four Meath seniors on the 20's squad only trained with this group for the first time the week of the first championship game against Wexford, and they trained with the seniors on Monday just gone (where Shane Walsh suffered his injury) and back in again with 20's yesterday. How can anyone expect success with this sort of carry on going on." Spot on! ASaminthehand (Meath) - Posts: 422 - 23/02/2020 17:26:07 2269343 Link