National Forum

Divisional Sides

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Just wondering how often the divisional teams train and how it impacts there clubs. The model seems to work very well in some counties but does it create issues with Junior club championship and finishing leagues ect.

boomerang (Mayo) - Posts: 30 - 11/11/2019 08:58:58    2248983

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Replying To boomerang:  "Just wondering how often the divisional teams train and how it impacts there clubs. The model seems to work very well in some counties but does it create issues with Junior club championship and finishing leagues ect."
The likes of Kerry and Cork have the right idea. Club comes first but it's a great honour for a junior/ intermediate club player to represent his division. Think Cork gave about 9 or 10 divisions..Kerry about 8. They train about once a week until the Championship gets serious and up it then..Clare could do with divisions and Limerick are reviving theirs..its the way to go without this amalgamation rubbish. Clubs just fold with amalgamation whereas divisions keep clubs alive

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1361 - 11/11/2019 13:30:02    2249073

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Anyone know, what club are the Clifford's with and how did they fare in the club championship?

catchturnscore (Longford) - Posts: 116 - 11/11/2019 15:30:16    2249103

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Replying To catchturnscore:  "Anyone know, what club are the Clifford's with and how did they fare in the club championship?"
They are from Fossa. This is where my knowledge ends.

OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 224 - 11/11/2019 15:54:33    2249109

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Replying To catchturnscore:  "Anyone know, what club are the Clifford's with and how did they fare in the club championship?"
Google East Kerry.

Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 177 - 11/11/2019 18:32:15    2249125

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Replying To catchturnscore:  "Anyone know, what club are the Clifford's with and how did they fare in the club championship?"
The Clifford's play for fossa a small club just outside Killarney .

Fossa play premier junior , they weren't in the shake up for silverware this year but they weren't in risk of relegation either so they'll be premier junior club again in 2020.

Fossa were relegated from div 3 of the county league this year as far as I know.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12218 - 11/11/2019 20:50:08    2249145

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Imagine a situation where players like Clifford, or many others past do not play county football because they are playing Junior club football and do not get either picked or the chance to develop as quickly, without the divisional system. Same in Cork where many footballers come from smaller clubs, many in the unfashionable areas in terms of football. In Hirling also, captain Seamus Harnedy plays for a tiny club St Ita's, however he is the star of the show for Imokily his division.

I'd be interested to know if lads from other counties feel that players have not got the chance with county teams due to playing for a small club?

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 199 - 12/11/2019 10:06:48    2249198

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I think it could work in Donegal but there would have to be a serious buy-in from all involved to make it work. The Kerry championship has always been an interesting one for me. It might be a simplistic way of looking at it, but who are the most successful footballing county of all time? Kerry - therefore it would make sense to have a look at the way they go about their business and try to emulate it surely?

OK obviously someone as talented as David Clifford was always going to be on the radar no matter what level he played at club level. But there are definitely great footballers operating at junior club level who maybe do not stand out as much as they would if they were playing with better players.

With ourselves, the Inishowen peninsula was traditionally seen a soccer area. The clubs there definitely made strides in the early part of this decade but have maybe slipped back a wee bit again. I think they did operate a divisional team at one stage in the past? Wonder would it be an idea to get something similar again or would the clubs up there not be in favour?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7113 - 12/11/2019 11:34:09    2249218

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Divisional structure is a great way of picking from junior clubs and seeing who can make the step up. Its basically a way of taking a collection of junior clubs and making a senior club out of them. This "club" then take part in the Senior County Championship, not to be mistaken with the senior club championship :-)

A good example of how it works would be to take a look at St Brendan's, who lost to East Kerry in the semi final. They pick from 5 clubs - Churchill, John Mitchells, Na Gaeil, St. Patrick's Blennerville and Ardfert.

Of that 6, Ardfert and John Mitchells play in the intermediate club championship and neither of them made it to the semi-finals of that competition. The remaining teams in that division - Churchill, Na Gael, Blennerville - are all junior and didn't make semi finals either.

While Na Gael have some country players - Jack Barry, Diarmaid O'Connor - a lot of good minor players come from small junior clubs like Churchill, and what better way for a late bloomer, someone who didn't grow quickly enough or bulk up till their early or mid 20s, to make a name for themselves than by playing at the top table in the county?

It works well in Kerry because we have, relatively speaking, a lot of clubs. There are a lot fewer clubs in Donegal so the divisional system might not be as beneficial.

kingdom_come (Kerry) - Posts: 62 - 12/11/2019 12:25:25    2249227

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Couple of questions for the Kerry contingent, as their system is held up as a model of a structure working well(a fair consensus I think)

1. How many games would a club player get, what is the league/championship model?

2. What timeframe do matches occur in. When do competitive matches start and finish?

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 12/11/2019 12:56:24    2249236

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Replying To m_the_d:  "Couple of questions for the Kerry contingent, as their system is held up as a model of a structure working well(a fair consensus I think)

1. How many games would a club player get, what is the league/championship model?

2. What timeframe do matches occur in. When do competitive matches start and finish?"
This could take a while so bare with me.

Basically we have 63 football teams in Kerry we have 4 divisions of 12 teams and division 5 having 15 teams.

Then we have our junior championship junior premier championship intermediate championship and senior county championship which includes 8 senior clubs plus 8 divisional sides , also a senior club championship where it's just the 8 senior clubs involved.

We then have divisional championship so we' Basically playing football all year round.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12218 - 12/11/2019 14:34:57    2249259

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Replying To kingdom_come:  "Divisional structure is a great way of picking from junior clubs and seeing who can make the step up. Its basically a way of taking a collection of junior clubs and making a senior club out of them. This "club" then take part in the Senior County Championship, not to be mistaken with the senior club championship :-)

A good example of how it works would be to take a look at St Brendan's, who lost to East Kerry in the semi final. They pick from 5 clubs - Churchill, John Mitchells, Na Gaeil, St. Patrick's Blennerville and Ardfert.

Of that 6, Ardfert and John Mitchells play in the intermediate club championship and neither of them made it to the semi-finals of that competition. The remaining teams in that division - Churchill, Na Gael, Blennerville - are all junior and didn't make semi finals either.

While Na Gael have some country players - Jack Barry, Diarmaid O'Connor - a lot of good minor players come from small junior clubs like Churchill, and what better way for a late bloomer, someone who didn't grow quickly enough or bulk up till their early or mid 20s, to make a name for themselves than by playing at the top table in the county?

It works well in Kerry because we have, relatively speaking, a lot of clubs. There are a lot fewer clubs in Donegal so the divisional system might not be as beneficial."
I've thought about this sort of thing a bit.

I think the future of the GAA could be in growing the divisional side model across the country.

I'd be thinking that the competitions should be organised on a Provincial basis rather than county basis.

The Provincial league would be every players bread and butter and the divisional side would be the team every player is with from March to August.

Club league could be played mid week during this time.

The Club championship could be played in September and October.

There's a lot of reasons why this could be an improvement.

One of the rules of having entry into the Provincial league is that divisional sides would have to field sides at u17, u19 and u21 levels in addition to their senior team.

Players can only play on 1 team a weekend.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3216 - 12/11/2019 15:16:09    2249270

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "This could take a while so bare with me.

Basically we have 63 football teams in Kerry we have 4 divisions of 12 teams and division 5 having 15 teams.

Then we have our junior championship junior premier championship intermediate championship and senior county championship which includes 8 senior clubs plus 8 divisional sides , also a senior club championship where it's just the 8 senior clubs involved.

We then have divisional championship so we' Basically playing football all year round."
And that's it really. By playing football regularly players get better. Who would have thunk it?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7113 - 12/11/2019 16:14:40    2249280

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"Club championship could be played September and October" - what, the entire club championship?

Might possibly have some hope of working in a single-code county with a straight knock-out championship. But what about a dual county that has a round-robin element to their championship too?

For instance, here in Wexford, it takes a minimum of 16 weeks to run our championships (eight hurling, eight football). Two groups of six at each level, so there are five round-robin games, followed by quarter-finals, semi-finals, and finals. How would something like that fit into your grand plan?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 410 - 12/11/2019 16:19:09    2249281

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Depends on the situation in each county, 46 of the 49 clubs in wexford are dual so would be a non-runner, for example bunclody who got to both the intermediate hurling and football finals played 8 championship games in hurling and 9 in football due to a replay in the semi final, they would have strong representation on both enniscorthy district teams on top of 17 games already listed.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 2780 - 12/11/2019 16:21:13    2249283

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Replying To kingdom_come:  "Divisional structure is a great way of picking from junior clubs and seeing who can make the step up. Its basically a way of taking a collection of junior clubs and making a senior club out of them. This "club" then take part in the Senior County Championship, not to be mistaken with the senior club championship :-)

A good example of how it works would be to take a look at St Brendan's, who lost to East Kerry in the semi final. They pick from 5 clubs - Churchill, John Mitchells, Na Gaeil, St. Patrick's Blennerville and Ardfert.

Of that 6, Ardfert and John Mitchells play in the intermediate club championship and neither of them made it to the semi-finals of that competition. The remaining teams in that division - Churchill, Na Gael, Blennerville - are all junior and didn't make semi finals either.

While Na Gael have some country players - Jack Barry, Diarmaid O'Connor - a lot of good minor players come from small junior clubs like Churchill, and what better way for a late bloomer, someone who didn't grow quickly enough or bulk up till their early or mid 20s, to make a name for themselves than by playing at the top table in the county?

It works well in Kerry because we have, relatively speaking, a lot of clubs. There are a lot fewer clubs in Donegal so the divisional system might not be as beneficial."
I was looking at potential divisional sides in Donegal. I've divided the clubs into several divisions based on their barony but there will need to be more amalgamation for it to be realistic.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 12/11/2019 18:17:47    2249303

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Replying To Pikeman96:  ""Club championship could be played September and October" - what, the entire club championship?

Might possibly have some hope of working in a single-code county with a straight knock-out championship. But what about a dual county that has a round-robin element to their championship too?

For instance, here in Wexford, it takes a minimum of 16 weeks to run our championships (eight hurling, eight football). Two groups of six at each level, so there are five round-robin games, followed by quarter-finals, semi-finals, and finals. How would something like that fit into your grand plan?"
Group stages for championship mid week in some counties with knockout rounds in September and October.

Players would be accommodated to play club championship in both codes.

Players could only be accommodated for a divisional side in one code in any given weekend.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3216 - 12/11/2019 18:23:06    2249306

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Replying To bloodyban:  "The likes of Kerry and Cork have the right idea. Club comes first but it's a great honour for a junior/ intermediate club player to represent his division. Think Cork gave about 9 or 10 divisions..Kerry about 8. They train about once a week until the Championship gets serious and up it then..Clare could do with divisions and Limerick are reviving theirs..its the way to go without this amalgamation rubbish. Clubs just fold with amalgamation whereas divisions keep clubs alive"
What's that about Limerick reviving Divisional teams?
I didn't hear this before

Westfester (Limerick) - Posts: 914 - 12/11/2019 22:29:41    2249341

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "I was looking at potential divisional sides in Donegal. I've divided the clubs into several divisions based on their barony but there will need to be more amalgamation for it to be realistic."
Hypothetical Divisions for Donegal:

Teams in bold play senior.

Banagh

Ardara, Glencolmcille, Kilcar, Killybegs, Naomh Ultan, and St Nauls.

Finn Rovers

Convoy, Glenfin, Red Hughs, Robert Emmett's, Sean McCools, Setanta, and St Patrick's Lifford.

Inishowen

Buncrana, Burt, Carndonagh, Malin, Moville, St Patrick's Muff, and Urris.

Division Based in Letterkenny

Downings, Fanad Gaels, Glenswilly, Milford, Naomh Colmcille, Letterkenny Gaels, St Eunans, and Termon.

Tirhugh

Ballintra, Ballyshannon, Bundoran, Four Masters, and Pettigo.

West Donegal

Cloughaneely, Dungloe, Glenties, Gweedore, Naomh Mhuire, Na Rossa, and St Michaels.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 13/11/2019 11:28:29    2249395

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Hypothetical Divisions for Donegal:

Teams in bold play senior.

Banagh

Ardara, Glencolmcille, Kilcar, Killybegs, Naomh Ultan, and St Nauls.

Finn Rovers

Convoy, Glenfin, Red Hughs, Robert Emmett's, Sean McCools, Setanta, and St Patrick's Lifford.

Inishowen

Buncrana, Burt, Carndonagh, Malin, Moville, St Patrick's Muff, and Urris.

Division Based in Letterkenny

Downings, Fanad Gaels, Glenswilly, Milford, Naomh Colmcille, Letterkenny Gaels, St Eunans, and Termon.

Tirhugh

Ballintra, Ballyshannon, Bundoran, Four Masters, and Pettigo.

West Donegal

Cloughaneely, Dungloe, Glenties, Gweedore, Naomh Mhuire, Na Rossa, and St Michaels."
For it to work in Donegal you would need to drastically reduce the number of Senior teams (currently 16) and/or use the old divisions i.e. South, South-west, Northwest, Inishowen, East.

mhaith_fear (Donegal) - Posts: 75 - 13/11/2019 12:46:38    2249422

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