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GAA Fixtures Review Comittee

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Why is taking the GAA so long to publish this? Club players lives are put on hold until county finish up and club championship is blitzed off in the mud? No county plays club championship in June/July anymore.

hamsterdean (Limerick) - Posts: 223 - 22/10/2019 13:37:13    2244952

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Because the group set up had to the end of the year to do it. Anyway, hardly seems any point now as tier 2 is coming in. The FRC was to find solutions to the current calendar, not a new one.

fergie (Carlow) - Posts: 1105 - 22/10/2019 14:46:04    2244969

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http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2019/10/19/news/gaa-task-force-plans-include-splitting-season-and-rebalancing-provinces-1742913/

Article about the proposals which may be put forward by the Fixtures Review.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 22/10/2019 15:53:51    2244986

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because they need to get their ducks in a row,i.e. get it to the inter county managers so they can take to the national airwaves to complain about it first.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3907 - 24/10/2019 10:57:18    2245401

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The CPA have pulled out of the consultation which gives an indication into the findings. The club is the integral part of the GAA and without it there wouldn't be an association. However whilst local fund raising is impressive the real money, the finance that provides the facilities etc come from the inter county scene. The GAA need the inter county scene no matter how controversial that is to the CPA. The April "club" month and playing of All Ireland finals hasn't worked.

Without a successful, well marketed inter county scene it's hard to see the GAA providing what they currently do in local areas - it's clear the money filters down.

Lets see what the findings are but if the CPA are not happy then to me it gives an indication the GAA are not prepared to dilute inter county scenes further which I think is the right decision.

It's getting to the stage where counties need to consider playing club league competitions without inter county players and using the window provided by the GAA to have everyone available for the club championships in most cases towards the end of July.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 740 - 19/11/2019 17:39:51    2250361

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Replying To sam1884:  "The CPA have pulled out of the consultation which gives an indication into the findings. The club is the integral part of the GAA and without it there wouldn't be an association. However whilst local fund raising is impressive the real money, the finance that provides the facilities etc come from the inter county scene. The GAA need the inter county scene no matter how controversial that is to the CPA. The April "club" month and playing of All Ireland finals hasn't worked.

Without a successful, well marketed inter county scene it's hard to see the GAA providing what they currently do in local areas - it's clear the money filters down.

Lets see what the findings are but if the CPA are not happy then to me it gives an indication the GAA are not prepared to dilute inter county scenes further which I think is the right decision.

It's getting to the stage where counties need to consider playing club league competitions without inter county players and using the window provided by the GAA to have everyone available for the club championships in most cases towards the end of July."
The inter county season could do with drastic improvement itself.

It's failing all but the top few counties.

The statements put out by the COA read very well. They engaged with the process in good faith and found it ultimately was just used to accommodate Horan's tier 2 competition.

The GAA leadership is failing all levels of the association with this development.

I'm very disappointed that a chance for meaningful change was missed.

I've recently given up on playing and the uncertainty over fixtures definitely played a part in my decision. I'm genuinely worried for the future of the association.

The intercounty scene is important for the whole association but the club scene is also important for inter county level. The snake is going to eat it's own tail.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 19/11/2019 18:53:04    2250379

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I put up a post on this topic earlier, but admin don't seem to tolerate any criticism of Dublin John.

Can't be bothered now.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 419 - 19/11/2019 20:42:45    2250397

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The inter county season could do with drastic improvement itself.

It's failing all but the top few counties.

The statements put out by the COA read very well. They engaged with the process in good faith and found it ultimately was just used to accommodate Horan's tier 2 competition.

The GAA leadership is failing all levels of the association with this development.

I'm very disappointed that a chance for meaningful change was missed.

I've recently given up on playing and the uncertainty over fixtures definitely played a part in my decision. I'm genuinely worried for the future of the association.

The intercounty scene is important for the whole association but the club scene is also important for inter county level. The snake is going to eat it's own tail."
I don't disagree with you in that the inter county competitions could do with drastic change. I'm suspicious of what the CPA want though - to me their real aim is to drastically reduce the inter county season in favour of opening up more time for the clubs.

The April month and playing All Ireland finals early didn't help the clubs but did damage to the marketing of the GAA in the national media and over time could have a negative affect on revenues.

The tier 2 championship is a mistake but it's a completly different argument and imo the CPA used it as a smokescreen to why they effectively threw their dummy out and left the process. Where they completly honest! or used an issue they know the GAA world have a problem with to try and put pressure on the GAA?

I think what really happened is the GAA were not prepared to drastically reduce the inter county season further maybe even to the beginning of August and at that stage the CPA walked - this is an opinion we'll need to await the findings.

The club and inter county scene need to work together - the only solution which may be in this report is for clubs to set non county players fixtures and the GAA ensuring all players are available for the club championships. The GAA is also a business and they need to protect their revenue streams whilst allowing players the opportunity to win a Championship with their parish/club.

To me the CPA were not happy with this thought process.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 740 - 19/11/2019 21:58:17    2250415

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Replying To sam1884:  "The CPA have pulled out of the consultation which gives an indication into the findings. The club is the integral part of the GAA and without it there wouldn't be an association. However whilst local fund raising is impressive the real money, the finance that provides the facilities etc come from the inter county scene. The GAA need the inter county scene no matter how controversial that is to the CPA. The April "club" month and playing of All Ireland finals hasn't worked.

Without a successful, well marketed inter county scene it's hard to see the GAA providing what they currently do in local areas - it's clear the money filters down.

Lets see what the findings are but if the CPA are not happy then to me it gives an indication the GAA are not prepared to dilute inter county scenes further which I think is the right decision.

It's getting to the stage where counties need to consider playing club league competitions without inter county players and using the window provided by the GAA to have everyone available for the club championships in most cases towards the end of July."
Perhaps you can show us how the money filters down. This nonsense that every club is benefiting from the money filtering down from Inter County level is rubbish. Most clubs are not vested in the GAA & as a result cannot get capital infrastructural monies from the GAA. Most clubs are hard pressed paying the registration & affiliation, referee fees & insurance to the GAA & get nothing in return. That is the direct experience of the majority of clubs. Yes there is money invested in coaching but that is not directly benefiting clubs financially & the level of coaching as many know in the education sector is of a really poor standard. In fact at post primary school level it is nearly non existent now as the GAA are happy that County Development squads have replaced colleges football, despite that colleges football had greater inclusivity, whereas County Development squads are elitism for a few. At primary school level the quality & consistency of coaching is very poor & being exposed by the professional approach of other codes. Many coaches are too busy involved with county level teams rather than carrying out the roles they are supposed to. I cannot decipher your confusion on playing club championships so won't even try to, obviously you have come on here to defend all matters GAA & dismiss the CPA. The statement by the CPA which is quite detailed & informative paints a number of individuals within the GAA as autocratic & hell bent on control. Their dismissal of all comment on the whole Tier 2 saga & pushing through of it shows how far they feel they can flex their power & with nobody having the balls stand up & question them especially within the media they are riding roughshod over everything. It's interesting the number of parallels with the FAI & we have yet to hear about Croke Park's role in Mayo & esp in Galway in relation to what they knew & what they advised in relation to the financial irregularities. There were those in the FAI who thought they could ride rough shod over everybody with a complicit media but eventually the truth always outs.
The truth within the current GAA is that the hierarchy don't care about clubs or club players or the CPA, it's all about the power & money within the Inter County set up.
If the CPA had any balls know they would call a strike or else just disband, do as many others are doing in their droves, opting out & moving on. Leave it to the armchair brigade.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1072 - 20/11/2019 00:48:07    2250434

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Perhaps you can show us how the money filters down. This nonsense that every club is benefiting from the money filtering down from Inter County level is rubbish. Most clubs are not vested in the GAA & as a result cannot get capital infrastructural monies from the GAA. Most clubs are hard pressed paying the registration & affiliation, referee fees & insurance to the GAA & get nothing in return. That is the direct experience of the majority of clubs. Yes there is money invested in coaching but that is not directly benefiting clubs financially & the level of coaching as many know in the education sector is of a really poor standard. In fact at post primary school level it is nearly non existent now as the GAA are happy that County Development squads have replaced colleges football, despite that colleges football had greater inclusivity, whereas County Development squads are elitism for a few. At primary school level the quality & consistency of coaching is very poor & being exposed by the professional approach of other codes. Many coaches are too busy involved with county level teams rather than carrying out the roles they are supposed to. I cannot decipher your confusion on playing club championships so won't even try to, obviously you have come on here to defend all matters GAA & dismiss the CPA. The statement by the CPA which is quite detailed & informative paints a number of individuals within the GAA as autocratic & hell bent on control. Their dismissal of all comment on the whole Tier 2 saga & pushing through of it shows how far they feel they can flex their power & with nobody having the balls stand up & question them especially within the media they are riding roughshod over everything. It's interesting the number of parallels with the FAI & we have yet to hear about Croke Park's role in Mayo & esp in Galway in relation to what they knew & what they advised in relation to the financial irregularities. There were those in the FAI who thought they could ride rough shod over everybody with a complicit media but eventually the truth always outs.
The truth within the current GAA is that the hierarchy don't care about clubs or club players or the CPA, it's all about the power & money within the Inter County set up.
If the CPA had any balls know they would call a strike or else just disband, do as many others are doing in their droves, opting out & moving on. Leave it to the armchair brigade."
We've argued a lot over the Dublin finances topic.

I do think you're spot on here.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 20/11/2019 10:27:36    2250459

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The CPA have managed this strategically in my opinion, there is currency in a lobby always being the dissenting voice. They stayed as part of the process for the majority of the process, influencing and then cut and ran just as it was published. Clearly strategic.

The only impact might mean they may not be invited to future parties, but who knows.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3852 - 20/11/2019 10:50:13    2250462

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Perhaps you can show us how the money filters down. This nonsense that every club is benefiting from the money filtering down from Inter County level is rubbish. Most clubs are not vested in the GAA & as a result cannot get capital infrastructural monies from the GAA. Most clubs are hard pressed paying the registration & affiliation, referee fees & insurance to the GAA & get nothing in return. That is the direct experience of the majority of clubs. Yes there is money invested in coaching but that is not directly benefiting clubs financially & the level of coaching as many know in the education sector is of a really poor standard. In fact at post primary school level it is nearly non existent now as the GAA are happy that County Development squads have replaced colleges football, despite that colleges football had greater inclusivity, whereas County Development squads are elitism for a few. At primary school level the quality & consistency of coaching is very poor & being exposed by the professional approach of other codes. Many coaches are too busy involved with county level teams rather than carrying out the roles they are supposed to. I cannot decipher your confusion on playing club championships so won't even try to, obviously you have come on here to defend all matters GAA & dismiss the CPA. The statement by the CPA which is quite detailed & informative paints a number of individuals within the GAA as autocratic & hell bent on control. Their dismissal of all comment on the whole Tier 2 saga & pushing through of it shows how far they feel they can flex their power & with nobody having the balls stand up & question them especially within the media they are riding roughshod over everything. It's interesting the number of parallels with the FAI & we have yet to hear about Croke Park's role in Mayo & esp in Galway in relation to what they knew & what they advised in relation to the financial irregularities. There were those in the FAI who thought they could ride rough shod over everybody with a complicit media but eventually the truth always outs.
The truth within the current GAA is that the hierarchy don't care about clubs or club players or the CPA, it's all about the power & money within the Inter County set up.
If the CPA had any balls know they would call a strike or else just disband, do as many others are doing in their droves, opting out & moving on. Leave it to the armchair brigade."
I'd say the GAA care more about the CPA than the CPA care about the GAA hierarchy to be honest but that's just an observation on my part. I'm very confident the GAA task force will provide suitable windows for the playing of club championships that will include compromise - it won't include near abandonment of the inter county scene though which I suspect is an agenda.

If Croke Park closed tomorrow and all revenue from the inter county structures stopped as well as advice on grant applications etc you'd find a high percentage of clubs would cease to exist. The club is integral of course and it's where the real GAA is at however we need to be honest where revenues, sponsorships, grants etc stem from. The inter county scene is not some kind of destroyer, it's where our elite athletes compete with each other in front of thousands of people followed by the national media.

The second tier championship is the wrong decision but it won't be played through to October, it will be incorporated into the inter county season so I find it dishonest the CPA are using it as their excuse - they're meant to be about club players as they state. Like I mentioned before I suspect they want all inter county competitions finished by the start of August, not having a tier 2 championship would maybe help with that and they'd then ask for senior championship to be ran off mainly in July so all counties are finished by their window.

What the CPA seem to not mention is how they'd keep inter county players at home if the championships did finish so early - the answer is they wouldn't in a majority of cases as the Amercian and London money would be too good to turn down - how would this help clubs!?

The GAA is not the FAI as it's an amateur organisation not reliant on public money and associated goverance in the same way as the FAI were. They also did not seek millions in public money to part build a new stadium and then waste that money so your comparsion is unfair. Yes organisations within the GAA (Cork, Mayo and Galway) have issues on how they govern themselves and I'm sure the hierarchy will step in as required.

The GAA hierarchy need to look at the bigger picture and just individual protest groups, they can listen of course but they can't just walk away if they don't have everything their own way. Imo they're protecting and allowing an inter county scene but finding room for compromise to help the clubs.

I'm not sure other stakeholders wanted any kind of compromise.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 740 - 20/11/2019 11:05:39    2250466

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Replying To TheUsername:  "The CPA have managed this strategically in my opinion, there is currency in a lobby always being the dissenting voice. They stayed as part of the process for the majority of the process, influencing and then cut and ran just as it was published. Clearly strategic.

The only impact might mean they may not be invited to future parties, but who knows."
I think you make good points, either way I don't think the CPA are as honest and transparant as they're trying to come across. They're very strategic in wanting to significantly dilute the inter county competitions. I also think the GAA have been very strategic though in having them part of the process; a process that will result in a number of compromises to help the clubs/fixtures.

I suspect the CPA know clubs will be able to live with the recommendations but are well short of what the CPA wanted - which puts them in a difficult situation. Hence why they're making the first move and planting seeds on how disasterious this report is and how the GAA don't want to listen.

My theory is this will be a good report which the CPA know and will probably mean they don't really have a role anymore.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 740 - 20/11/2019 11:51:54    2250482

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Did you boys look at the CPA proposals.

They involved broadly more matches for the intercounty scene but organised in a better schedule.

1 of the proposals evened up the Provinces into 4 regions of 8.

Every team was to play each other once with top 4 in each moving to AI tier 1 of 4 groups of 4. There'd be a tier 2 of 4 groups of 4 also.

10 meaningful games guaranteed for all.

I don't particularly like that proposal truth be told but it throws cold water over this CPA scaling back the county scene narrative.

There's letters telling CPA and GPA leadership to not discuss Horan's tier 2 proposals negatively in advance of the vote.

There shouldn't have been new proposals being created separately to a fixtures review committee.

I struggle to see how someone can blame the CPA for acting in bad faith here. The evidence shows it to be from the GAA side.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 20/11/2019 12:32:56    2250490

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There is nothing to suggest these recommendations won't form part of the final report but the mood music appears to be counties such as Donegal want to remain part of the Ulster Championship and other counties are not keen to move out of their province -there are also goverance issues which individual councils have to decide.

What you don't mention is the CPA propose pretty much disbanding pre season competitions and significantly reducing the national league to make room for these "extra" championship games.

They market the championship proposal but fail to talk as loudly about reducing everything else to accommodate them - in essence reducing the inter county season.

The GAA may look at changes but they have an overall responsibility to consider all the stakeholders views - they obviously don't want to significantly reduce the inter county season even if this includes a better championship structure from April to June for the majority of counties and July/start of August for the knock out games.

To me the CPA had proposals, they weren't totally accepted, the task force has come up with compromises which clubs can live with so the CPA have basically turned against the GAA for not getting their own way.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 740 - 20/11/2019 13:16:08    2250501

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Replying To sam1884:  "I think you make good points, either way I don't think the CPA are as honest and transparant as they're trying to come across. They're very strategic in wanting to significantly dilute the inter county competitions. I also think the GAA have been very strategic though in having them part of the process; a process that will result in a number of compromises to help the clubs/fixtures.

I suspect the CPA know clubs will be able to live with the recommendations but are well short of what the CPA wanted - which puts them in a difficult situation. Hence why they're making the first move and planting seeds on how disasterious this report is and how the GAA don't want to listen.

My theory is this will be a good report which the CPA know and will probably mean they don't really have a role anymore."
Excellent posts, my thoughts exactly.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3852 - 20/11/2019 14:03:51    2250511

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Replying To sam1884:  "I'd say the GAA care more about the CPA than the CPA care about the GAA hierarchy to be honest but that's just an observation on my part. I'm very confident the GAA task force will provide suitable windows for the playing of club championships that will include compromise - it won't include near abandonment of the inter county scene though which I suspect is an agenda.

If Croke Park closed tomorrow and all revenue from the inter county structures stopped as well as advice on grant applications etc you'd find a high percentage of clubs would cease to exist. The club is integral of course and it's where the real GAA is at however we need to be honest where revenues, sponsorships, grants etc stem from. The inter county scene is not some kind of destroyer, it's where our elite athletes compete with each other in front of thousands of people followed by the national media.

The second tier championship is the wrong decision but it won't be played through to October, it will be incorporated into the inter county season so I find it dishonest the CPA are using it as their excuse - they're meant to be about club players as they state. Like I mentioned before I suspect they want all inter county competitions finished by the start of August, not having a tier 2 championship would maybe help with that and they'd then ask for senior championship to be ran off mainly in July so all counties are finished by their window.

What the CPA seem to not mention is how they'd keep inter county players at home if the championships did finish so early - the answer is they wouldn't in a majority of cases as the Amercian and London money would be too good to turn down - how would this help clubs!?

The GAA is not the FAI as it's an amateur organisation not reliant on public money and associated goverance in the same way as the FAI were. They also did not seek millions in public money to part build a new stadium and then waste that money so your comparsion is unfair. Yes organisations within the GAA (Cork, Mayo and Galway) have issues on how they govern themselves and I'm sure the hierarchy will step in as required.

The GAA hierarchy need to look at the bigger picture and just individual protest groups, they can listen of course but they can't just walk away if they don't have everything their own way. Imo they're protecting and allowing an inter county scene but finding room for compromise to help the clubs.

I'm not sure other stakeholders wanted any kind of compromise."
Your a man with his head buried in the sand, you will go far in the GAA.
Let's take a couple of lines from your post, firstly "I'd say they care more about the CPA than the CPA care about the GAA", well if that's the case how come they don't even officially recognise them as a group, how come they dismissed the motion at Congress on transparency & openly mocked motions from the CPA, seems pretty clear to all that the GAA have a hostile view of the CPA. Secondly, " if all revenue from the inter county structures stopped as well as advice on grant applications etc you'd find a high percentage of clubs would cease to exist " the majority of GAA clubs continue to exist without any funding from the GAA despite them paying over thousands in registration & affiliation fees. You were asked to back your other post that clubs are funded from the inter county scene, as of yet you have put nothing up to back that statement. As for the CPA coming up with proposals on how to stop inter county players heading to the American & London money, perhaps you should pose that to the GPA who are their representative body & who are funded with millions of GAA money to administrate.
You also state that "they also did not seek millions in public money to part build a new stadium & then waste that money" obviously pure denial on your part, how do you think Croke Park was built, remember the Bertie vote. Many millions of public money went into Croke Park & let's not forget the PUC mess, did you forget the €30 Million of public money there.
Lastly, you say "yes organisations within the GAA(Cork, Mayo,Galway) have issues on how they govern themselves & I'm sure the hierarchy will step in as required" well they are already in there & yet there continues to be controversy, yet no transparency from the GAA or answers to what they knew, when they knew, did they withhold information or advise to do so. So continue on with your deflection & defence of all matters such as GAA hierarchy & inter county scene. Demonise the CPA as the big bad wolf, yes they are responsible for destroying the GAA. If people of the calibre of Micheál Briody, Aaron Kiernan, Liam Griffin etc cannot get any traction from the GAA then you realise how bad it is. If I were them, for their own sanity they should disband the CPA & walk away & leave it to the autocratic dictatorship. They clearly have no interest or understand the level of discontent & apathy.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1072 - 20/11/2019 14:28:56    2250515

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Replying To sam1884:  "There is nothing to suggest these recommendations won't form part of the final report but the mood music appears to be counties such as Donegal want to remain part of the Ulster Championship and other counties are not keen to move out of their province -there are also goverance issues which individual councils have to decide.

What you don't mention is the CPA propose pretty much disbanding pre season competitions and significantly reducing the national league to make room for these "extra" championship games.

They market the championship proposal but fail to talk as loudly about reducing everything else to accommodate them - in essence reducing the inter county season.

The GAA may look at changes but they have an overall responsibility to consider all the stakeholders views - they obviously don't want to significantly reduce the inter county season even if this includes a better championship structure from April to June for the majority of counties and July/start of August for the knock out games.

To me the CPA had proposals, they weren't totally accepted, the task force has come up with compromises which clubs can live with so the CPA have basically turned against the GAA for not getting their own way."
Are you worried about reducing the length of the inter county season with regards time it takes up?

I don't understand why the duration of the county season is so important.

Pat Spillane talks about giving up September to soccer and rugby.

What does that even mean?

I can't see how this all round GAA football season where the bulk of games get played in February to April and September to November is benefiting anyone.

Surely having a good playing calendar is more important for the promotion of games than having a few games every weekend for 4 months.

You ask what's to keep county players around if the inter county season is shorter, the club championship should.

There are only a certain age group that can go off to America by the way. Students. I don't see why the whole association goes on standstill to accommodate them. If they go off to America so what. Their club has a worse team for a season. It's actually no big deal. Play some games for crying out loud so that others can stick around longer.

I definitely retired prematurely because the fixtures are bloody impossible at times for a married man. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 20/11/2019 14:34:24    2250517

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Excellent posts, my thoughts exactly."
Lol, obviously out fishing. Agreeing with a guy who can't back up his statements & both experts on a report that isn't even published yet, pure geniuses.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1072 - 20/11/2019 14:34:24    2250518

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Lol, obviously out fishing. Agreeing with a guy who can't back up his statements & both experts on a report that isn't even published yet, pure geniuses."
You'd be a big backer of the CPA then, im open minded about it, my comments are opinions on the political process and how i see it as opposed to the report (despite it being well leaked/kited) you are correct to say it hasn't been officially published. Im open to my analysis of agenda being wrong, its just an opinion.

I dont really have a alliance or agenda with one particular group involved in this, what i would say is that there are an increasingly number of noses at the trough of these things, yet nothing seems to be getting better, in terms of player welfare, fixtures and all the relevant issues of the day, in fact i think the opposite ids done in an effort to compromise and become inclusive of all said noses, just power plays really with no meaningful change.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3852 - 20/11/2019 16:41:59    2250542

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