National Forum

Casement Park

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "An all seated Thomond Park would fall well short of the 30k capacity required.

That bird has now flown.
Time to use the available monies (+ any more that can be got) to get a pitch, stand, some terracing provided and get Casement back in Gaelic Games action."
You're right, pool what money they have and more and get it built. Seated stand on one side and terracing for the rest. No big deal that Ulster isn't getting a Euro match, neither is Munster or Connacht. there are games in the capital which is enough.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2150 - 19/09/2024 16:13:39    2570799

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Replying To Saynothing:  "You're right, pool what money they have and more and get it built. Seated stand on one side and terracing for the rest. No big deal that Ulster isn't getting a Euro match, neither is Munster or Connacht. there are games in the capital which is enough."
Beginning to look that way

eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 274 - 19/09/2024 22:07:06    2570869

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This project was always pie in the sky.

It's capacity always meant the Frances or the Germanys could never play there.

Ulster already has many fine stadiums for its finals.

And Cork hosting Euro 2028 matches ? Come on. The stadium is not suitable, and the infrastructure is not of a level to host such a major event.

It might never be built.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2913 - 21/09/2024 10:42:07    2571115

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Replying To eslinchickenmaryland:  "There aren't enough corporate boxes/suites probably, not enough commentary/media spaces in the stand I'd imagine in PuC

Villa Park was mentioned, it has a capacity of 43,000 all seater purpose built for soccer, has many corporate boxes/suites and has hosted huge European and English competition games in the past. It was the go to place for FA Cup semi finals at one stage.

If any ground in Ireland had potential to be brought up to the level I'd think it would be Thomond Park but you'd need seated stands at either end, where there may not be enough space to build them. Others who know it better can answer that one. But it would still be pretty small capacity I'd say."
Not enough seats in thomond. Not enough space to convert terraces to seats and wouldn't get enough capacity doing that anyway. Wouldn't have media capacity to cater for a euros event anywat

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 21/09/2024 11:47:17    2571125

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I think the GAA is losing the plot, building stadiums with an eye to host big soccer matches and for hosting big concert money spinners.
What are we supposed to be and why was the GAA ever founded? to promote everything Irish and Gaelic.
Let the soccer and rugby westies look after themselves.
The way the split season is now the All Ireland series is no longer the fixture it was in Irish life, it's run off like a blitz at times, I think we have lost something along the way and we need to find it again.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3029 - 21/09/2024 12:07:17    2571130

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I think the GAA is losing the plot, building stadiums with an eye to host big soccer matches and for hosting big concert money spinners.
What are we supposed to be and why was the GAA ever founded? to promote everything Irish and Gaelic.
Let the soccer and rugby westies look after themselves.
The way the split season is now the All Ireland series is no longer the fixture it was in Irish life, it's run off like a blitz at times, I think we have lost something along the way and we need to find it again."
Leave living in the past to Unionists in the 6 Cos.
Rest of us live in the 21st century.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1952 - 21/09/2024 14:21:10    2571162

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Replying To Saynothing:  "You're right, pool what money they have and more and get it built. Seated stand on one side and terracing for the rest. No big deal that Ulster isn't getting a Euro match, neither is Munster or Connacht. there are games in the capital which is enough."
1st sensible post in a while. Spend the available money on a stadium for Gaelic Games thats practical and affordable. Probably will be able to afford seats down both sides if they forget about all that stupid glass frontage.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 21/09/2024 15:36:12    2571169

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Replying To SouthOfTheGap:  "If the Gaa really wanted a 35,000 capacity stadium, the reality is they already have one in Clones. People will say that Clones isn't up to standard. But that is because the Ulster Council, since Casement was discussed, have starved it of investment.

Clones has so much scope for improvement, the Gerry Arthur Stand could be flattened, and a proper stand built in its place. They have the room to build back towards the car park. There is ample space to build a new stand of the proportions of McHale Park, Castlebar. The remainder of the ground is also in similar condition to McHale Park, and with a relatively small investment in toilets and other ancillary services required for health and safety.

But the reality is that the Ulster and Central Councils real wish was to have a new concert venue in Belfast.

Now it's time for the Monaghan County Board to grow a pair, and lobby their politicians to get the investment. If Pairc Ui Chaoimh cost €110 million from scratch, I'd estimate that 25 - 30 million would leave Clones with really good facilities. With an election looming, now is the time."
Just reading this morning that the Irish government have awarded Clones with funding of €344,000 for the provision of floodlights.

The cynic in me wonders if this money could've been provided years ago, but the will of the Ulster Council was to deprive Clones of this funding in favour of Casement Park.

Anyway, great news for Clones, and as I said in my post a couple of weeks ago, with an election looming, now is the time for Clones to get their campaigning done.

SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 704 - 25/09/2024 10:11:05    2571721

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Replying To SouthOfTheGap:  "Just reading this morning that the Irish government have awarded Clones with funding of €344,000 for the provision of floodlights.

The cynic in me wonders if this money could've been provided years ago, but the will of the Ulster Council was to deprive Clones of this funding in favour of Casement Park.

Anyway, great news for Clones, and as I said in my post a couple of weeks ago, with an election looming, now is the time for Clones to get their campaigning done."
Clones is a nice venue but not very handy to most of the population of Ulster, either driving or by public transport. Belfast is by far Ulster's biggest urban area, makes sense having a new stadium in or near there. Although much though I enjoyed going to games in Casement much like Croke Park it's not in an ideal location to drive to. At least Croke Park is better served with public transport for large crowds.
If the main criteria was big championship games somewhere like the end of the M1 around Dungannon would probably make the most sense. But with the cost of new stadia it makes sense to consider other sources of income too.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 25/09/2024 11:28:55    2571752

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Leave living in the past to Unionists in the 6 Cos.
Rest of us live in the 21st century."
I don't think the poster you replied to is wrong. The GAA should be building or renovating stadia suitable to their own requirements. If the government wants a stadium suitable for all sports then they should pony up to build that like in most other countries, municipal stadia. The 21st century has nothing to do with sporting organisations trying to keep their own membership growing in the face of competition.

The reality here is we are talking about developing a ground in order to play 2-4 games of soccer and then the soccer gang go away leaving the GAA to keep the ground maintained and paid for.

There isn't a government in the world who, when seeing a potential price tag of half a billion euro like the Casement project was expected to be, wouldn't scupper that plan.

eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 274 - 25/09/2024 12:07:00    2571765

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Croke park have said every time the prices go up it for the good of the clubs and countys. So it's time to let the money do some work and stop expecting someone else to pay for it

Thejampot (Leitrim) - Posts: 344 - 25/09/2024 12:20:56    2571767

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I think the GAA is losing the plot, building stadiums with an eye to host big soccer matches and for hosting big concert money spinners.
What are we supposed to be and why was the GAA ever founded? to promote everything Irish and Gaelic.
Let the soccer and rugby westies look after themselves.
The way the split season is now the All Ireland series is no longer the fixture it was in Irish life, it's run off like a blitz at times, I think we have lost something along the way and we need to find it again."
Exactly. If Cusack and Hyde had listened to people who were saying "We live in the 20th century, move on," we would be completely lost as a nation.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 26/09/2024 09:31:18    2571894

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I think the GAA is losing the plot, building stadiums with an eye to host big soccer matches and for hosting big concert money spinners.
What are we supposed to be and why was the GAA ever founded? to promote everything Irish and Gaelic.
Let the soccer and rugby westies look after themselves.
The way the split season is now the All Ireland series is no longer the fixture it was in Irish life, it's run off like a blitz at times, I think we have lost something along the way and we need to find it again."
4 months of good to club football from August to December if you are interested. Club football, the very thing the GAA was founded on.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 386 - 26/09/2024 12:07:39    2571918

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "4 months of good to club football from August to December if you are interested. Club football, the very thing the GAA was founded on."
What would you know about it…? You were never at a club game in your life…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 26/09/2024 12:59:48    2571934

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "4 months of good to club football from August to December if you are interested. Club football, the very thing the GAA was founded on."
What would you know about it…? You were never at a club game in your life…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 26/09/2024 13:02:39    2571937

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Replying To Viking66:  "Clones is a nice venue but not very handy to most of the population of Ulster, either driving or by public transport. Belfast is by far Ulster's biggest urban area, makes sense having a new stadium in or near there. Although much though I enjoyed going to games in Casement much like Croke Park it's not in an ideal location to drive to. At least Croke Park is better served with public transport for large crowds.
If the main criteria was big championship games somewhere like the end of the M1 around Dungannon would probably make the most sense. But with the cost of new stadia it makes sense to consider other sources of income too."
It sounds like we need two different things here

1. A Fund raising Stadium venue in West Belfast, for concerts, Soccer, Rugby events and the odd Antrim GAA match if those other more profitable events haven't it already booked. A venue Sinn Fein can claim was their achievement.

2. Ulster GAA Provincial Stadium - A top class stadium to serve the 9 counties of Ulster and address the long awkward journey to Clones for many, somewhere central, where people from all 9 counties can access in 1 hour or less. Such a Stadium would be kept busy all year round with County, Club and school events for all codes.

For once they should focus on the needs of Ulster GAA fan base, and I don't mean the needs of Ulster GAA Council or the IRFU, IFA, Aiken promotions or whoever, I mean all the needs of the good people who contribute most of the GAA's funding every year. Also think of the needs of all the clubs and the schools within the 9 Counties.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1202 - 27/09/2024 13:08:47    2572092

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Replying To Commodore:  "It sounds like we need two different things here

1. A Fund raising Stadium venue in West Belfast, for concerts, Soccer, Rugby events and the odd Antrim GAA match if those other more profitable events haven't it already booked. A venue Sinn Fein can claim was their achievement.

2. Ulster GAA Provincial Stadium - A top class stadium to serve the 9 counties of Ulster and address the long awkward journey to Clones for many, somewhere central, where people from all 9 counties can access in 1 hour or less. Such a Stadium would be kept busy all year round with County, Club and school events for all codes.

For once they should focus on the needs of Ulster GAA fan base, and I don't mean the needs of Ulster GAA Council or the IRFU, IFA, Aiken promotions or whoever, I mean all the needs of the good people who contribute most of the GAA's funding every year. Also think of the needs of all the clubs and the schools within the 9 Counties."
Would do well to find somewhere between Dunloe and downpatrick that is an hour or less.

Thejampot (Leitrim) - Posts: 344 - 27/09/2024 13:54:48    2572103

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Replying To Commodore:  "It sounds like we need two different things here

1. A Fund raising Stadium venue in West Belfast, for concerts, Soccer, Rugby events and the odd Antrim GAA match if those other more profitable events haven't it already booked. A venue Sinn Fein can claim was their achievement.

2. Ulster GAA Provincial Stadium - A top class stadium to serve the 9 counties of Ulster and address the long awkward journey to Clones for many, somewhere central, where people from all 9 counties can access in 1 hour or less. Such a Stadium would be kept busy all year round with County, Club and school events for all codes.

For once they should focus on the needs of Ulster GAA fan base, and I don't mean the needs of Ulster GAA Council or the IRFU, IFA, Aiken promotions or whoever, I mean all the needs of the good people who contribute most of the GAA's funding every year. Also think of the needs of all the clubs and the schools within the 9 Counties."
A venue around the end of the M1 near Dungannon with proper parking and public transport would fulfil both needs, GAA and commercial , for Ulster GAA. But at the same time a proper accessible GAA park in Belfast would be a boost for the profile of the games also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 27/09/2024 15:22:04    2572115

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Replying To Square_B:  "An alternative site might be best but there's no way it should be built anywhere else but Belfast. Belfast badly needs a multipurpose stadium to cater for all sports and events. Nearly a third of the NI population live within the Belfast metropolitan area and that's where it should be. An upgrade of Clones should happen also."
Half of Belfast is British, and have no, or very little, interest in Gaelic games. The other half is Irish, but, of that half, lots of them are S Belfast wine-drinking golfists, with no interest in Gaelic games, and lots more of that half are W Belfast spideys who are mainly into English soccer and boxing (or, as they say in Belfast, "baxin"). So while there is of course a lot of people in the Belfast area, overall, it's not exactly GAA territory. And that's why Antrim men's senior football team underperforms massively - consistently, easily the worst and most beatable team in Ulster. And while the Antrim men's hurling team is good, it's backboned by rural N. Antrim Glensmen, who hail from closer to Scotland than to Belfast.

I hate all these big stadiums anyway. Croke Park, unless it's full to capacity, has no atmosphere. You're too far away from the pitch, with way too much space between seats and pitch. I suppose though that that is mandated by crowd safety considerations nowadays. Older, cheaper grounds (including soccer grounds in Scotland and England), while often not much to write home about, tend to have a brilliant atmosphere, what with e.g., the old low roofs and the seats practically on top of the pitch, and the noise bouncing back down off the tin. Few thousand people in a small old, cramped stadium would generate a bit of atmosphere; whereas 40,000 in Croke Park seems dead.

Also, I cannot believe the prices that are being talked about. I know a bit about current construction projects, and 200, 300, 400 million? Seriously? For a pitch, some seating, and some stands? Get some Spanish / Polish contractors in and they'd do it for half the price and do a much better job too. Irish and British constructors and project managers, who are all either clipboard men, should not be getting near a construction project like it.

Also, the geographical centre of 9-county Ulster is between Carrickmore and Pomeroy, in Tyrone. So the Dungannon / Ballygawley roundabout location makes sense.

points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 275 - 27/09/2024 18:27:23    2572133

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I think the GAA is losing the plot, building stadiums with an eye to host big soccer matches and for hosting big concert money spinners.
What are we supposed to be and why was the GAA ever founded? to promote everything Irish and Gaelic.
Let the soccer and rugby westies look after themselves.
The way the split season is now the All Ireland series is no longer the fixture it was in Irish life, it's run off like a blitz at times, I think we have lost something along the way and we need to find it again."
Gaa needed and needs to update its stadiums. Some inter county grounds are pitiful. They're so bad.
Modern stadiums need to be in use far more than the 10-20 match days thy are in use.
Your reference to soccer and rugby fans as westies is embarrassing. Sad and pathetic.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 28/09/2024 07:49:20    2572161

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