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MONEY

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Replying To galwayford:  "Tá Moc.dna ag cáint ráiméis."
Little bit of self reflection needed on your part as to who is talking rubbish. Not worth even replying to someone with obvious issues.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 31/10/2019 21:43:48    2246901

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Replying To keithlemon:  "https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/further-twist-in-mayo-funding-row-as-supporters-foundation-chief-eyes-big-sponsorship-deal-38580231.html

As a part time poster, I'm surprised its me that needs to highlight this latest twist in the Money thread!!!
Could Mayo have their ground renamed by their sponsor? How would Mayo supporters feel about that?"
It's been re named for some time now by its current sponsor

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 01/11/2019 00:41:54    2246922

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Mayo GAA have, however, said that "as a matter of urgency that all commercial and sponsorship deals are confidential between the parties. What we can confirm is that the current main sponsorship represents a significant investment annually for Elverys when the baseline figure and performance bonuses are included. It is one of the largest sponsorships in the GAA."

It's time for all counties to publish their financial accounts and profit & losses.

Dublin financial details have been speculated in for years, with many of our deals known to the public. It's time all counties are equally transparent. Many skeletons in many counties to be uncovered."
Good point. Dubs accounts online for all to see, but sure why would the uninformed look at them?

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 03/11/2019 15:39:07    2247406

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Replying To arock:  "Good point. Dubs accounts online for all to see, but sure why would the uninformed look at them?"
Where are the Dublin accounts available? I haven't seen them.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 414 - 03/11/2019 17:55:06    2247451

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Replying To mayotyroneman:  "It's been re named for some time now by its current sponsor"
Is McHale Park known by another name?
Is it officially Elverys McHale Park?

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 04/11/2019 13:11:44    2247649

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Replying To keithlemon:  "Is McHale Park known by another name?
Is it officially Elverys McHale Park?"
Choke Park.... ;-)

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 04/11/2019 13:45:38    2247658

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The see our county board refused TG4's offer to broadcast the Kerry county final on Sunday as they are afraid it will have a knock on to the gate receipts. They are quoted as saying that showing the doubleheader quarter final in Tralee resulted in a 35% decrease in patrons.

Serious own goal by county board, putting the euro before the Gaa punter. I've often praised and defended our county committee but can't defend this stance. Quite the opposite I'm afraid

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 05/11/2019 21:52:28    2248008

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Replying To Horsebox77:  "The see our county board refused TG4's offer to broadcast the Kerry county final on Sunday as they are afraid it will have a knock on to the gate receipts. They are quoted as saying that showing the doubleheader quarter final in Tralee resulted in a 35% decrease in patrons.

Serious own goal by county board, putting the euro before the Gaa punter. I've often praised and defended our county committee but can't defend this stance. Quite the opposite I'm afraid"
Unfortunately it is just a sad indictment of where the GAA in general has gone this last couple of decades. It's sad that money now controls the amateur organisation of the GAA at multiple levels but when you see it impacting at club level then you begin to think that the writing is on the wall as to where this is all going to end.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 06/11/2019 08:31:18    2248044

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https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/fresh-twist-in-mayo-funding-row-as-county-board-calls-emergency-meeting-for-tomorrow-night-38665905.html

This issue rumbles on and again. An EGM called now after the mishandling of the county board meeting previously which had the complete mis-management of a vote of no confidence in the county board. Mayo clubs are still up in arms, and rightly so, about how the money that was donate to Mayo GAA has been handled.

You wonder where this is going to end at this stage?

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 06/11/2019 14:00:47    2248117

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Replying To keithlemon:  "https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/fresh-twist-in-mayo-funding-row-as-county-board-calls-emergency-meeting-for-tomorrow-night-38665905.html

This issue rumbles on and again. An EGM called now after the mishandling of the county board meeting previously which had the complete mis-management of a vote of no confidence in the county board. Mayo clubs are still up in arms, and rightly so, about how the money that was donate to Mayo GAA has been handled.

You wonder where this is going to end at this stage?"
The amazing thing was a county officer said a vote of confidence in the county board was resoundingly supported by the clubs. Then most clubs in Mayo releasing statements saying at no point was vote held, or vote of confidence passed.

The clubs as well expressed concern of a lack of transparency and media at the meetings and based on above they are right to be concerned, there is something not right going on in Mayo.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/11/2019 14:08:52    2248119

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Look I think that the minutes of County board meetings should be available on line. As should aspects of the accounts. But regarding financial irregularity this goes on in all sports. Even Pro "rugby" which likes to portray itself as being the gold standard- has it's problems. The English club Saracens are being docked points and have a 5 million pound fine too. I want to see better accounts and transparency in the GAA, but please keep a bit of perspective. Also closer to home John Delaney of the FAI had to resign.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2517 - 06/11/2019 17:43:06    2248156

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Replying To TheUsername:  "The amazing thing was a county officer said a vote of confidence in the county board was resoundingly supported by the clubs. Then most clubs in Mayo releasing statements saying at no point was vote held, or vote of confidence passed.

The clubs as well expressed concern of a lack of transparency and media at the meetings and based on above they are right to be concerned, there is something not right going on in Mayo."
It's amazing how nobody seems to have the guts to ask the hard questions of the two counties who have had major financial issues in the last few years, Galway & Mayo, so much so that Croke Park had to get involved in their governance. Who from Croke Park has being involved & what have they being advising these counties as there seems to be no end to the mess in either county & ZERO transparency. Is it too much to ask Croke Park to clarify their role & involvement. It would appear to many that somebody was hoping it would be all swept under the carpet. Questions being asked in both counties on corporate governance & no answers, the GAA need to act on their own slogans & RESPECT the supporters, clubs, sponsors & answer the hard questions. Fraudulent activities, financial irregularities & poor corporate governance are not acceptable at any level, in any sport or in any facet of life, regardless of the situation.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 07/11/2019 00:29:46    2248203

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Replying To moc.dna:  "It's amazing how nobody seems to have the guts to ask the hard questions of the two counties who have had major financial issues in the last few years, Galway & Mayo, so much so that Croke Park had to get involved in their governance. Who from Croke Park has being involved & what have they being advising these counties as there seems to be no end to the mess in either county & ZERO transparency. Is it too much to ask Croke Park to clarify their role & involvement. It would appear to many that somebody was hoping it would be all swept under the carpet. Questions being asked in both counties on corporate governance & no answers, the GAA need to act on their own slogans & RESPECT the supporters, clubs, sponsors & answer the hard questions. Fraudulent activities, financial irregularities & poor corporate governance are not acceptable at any level, in any sport or in any facet of life, regardless of the situation."
Personally i think while the stories about Galway and Mayo are the most current and visible in terms of alleged mismanagement, corporate governance and transparency, i suspect they are the tip of the ice book and its a national problem. You can imagine practices of this type, that have may have given edges to Mayo or Galway will be mimicked elsewhere and its bad luck that Mayo and Galway are under scrutiny. Not condoning what going on in either of those counties but i do think if looked into a lot of similar stuff would be found elsewhere now or historically.

I think what is evident in the two examples in the west, is arrogance and a really poor skill set of the people in charge, you can see that is decisions and managing the individual processes. This was also evident in Cork during the whole PUC episode and while i would be advocate for the ground, the management and governance of what terrible locally.

We have entered an era now, where we have a hybrid model of funding, a centralized communal pot provided by the GAA and a private commercialized revenue stream counties can raise funds through - " corporate fundraising", sponsorship, commercial deals, levying clubs etc. we have reached the advent where millions are passing through county coffers a year and that given the current decentralized corporate structure in place by the GAA will inevitably lead to either alleged purposeful or accidental misuse of these funds by people who may not have the competency or spirit to use those funds in the correct way.

Regardless of Galway, Mayo or Cork, i would suspect much like Irish water there is use waste all over the system and leaking from all pipes. The GAA needs to get their arms around this and in this day and age when multi national companies, high profile donars and the general public are contributing to a voluntary organisation their has to be a charter of good governance, similar structures, transparency and accountability. Currently none of those things exist.

Nuts and bolts, all counties need to publish their annual audited accounts, income and outgoing. The public need to have confidence in what they care contributing to. The also need to publish what each county boards structure in and have a policy around complaint and how those complaints are investigated and how accountability and sanction worked if complaints or alleged misappropriation is judged apt.

Ridiculous scenes this week of Donkey songs, civil war and clubs turning on their county board do nothing for GAA and or its profile nationally. regardless of the county if you were donar or sponsor would recent events and the above make you likely or not to invest in GAA, i would suggest the latter.

Obviously things arent right out west and that needs looking into, but i suspect its the tip of the ice berg nationally.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 07/11/2019 11:02:10    2248244

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Its ok to call someone a donkey, play donkey songs at a county final, release a statements seemingly lying about a vote of confidence, ban media from providing transparency around alleged financial management concerns - but clubs using twitter is "beggars belief" - the Mayo County Board are really detached from reality, the Gaa really need to intervene here, to save Mayo from themselves:



Mayo GAA has asked clubs not to use social media to add fuel to the fire in relation to the ongoing funding row between the County Board and the International Supporters Foundation.

The Irish Independent reports that secretary Dermot Butler issued a communication to clubs last night after a number of them used social media to query claims made by the executive in the wake of a meeting on Monday night.

Doubt has been cast over a County Board statement saying that a vote of confidence in the County Board and the Executive was 'resoundingly passed by all delegates' following social media posts from Charlestown, Louisburgh, Ballycastle, Ardnaree Sarsfields, Lahardane MacHales, Burrishoole and Castlebar Mitchels.

The media was excluded from the meeting at which members of the top table were expected to respond to allegations made by the International Supporters Foundation and its chairman Tim O'Leary.

As it turned out, Mayo's officers revealed that they were advised not to comment on the matter after legal correspondence was received from Mr O'Leary.

"If delegates have or had an issue with last night's meeting the proper forum is to go through their respective Club Secretaries," Butler wrote to clubs.

"The use of social media by Clubs to release their statements is beggars belief. The sentiment from last night's meeting was that clubs should not use social media in such a format as a minority of clubs have chosen to do in this instance."

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 07/11/2019 13:30:10    2248293

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You need to be careful opening a thread on money on this forum, Paulie Dessie and the GPA will soon be knocking for their 30%

WunderBar (Galway) - Posts: 290 - 07/11/2019 17:11:53    2248370

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Personally i think while the stories about Galway and Mayo are the most current and visible in terms of alleged mismanagement, corporate governance and transparency, i suspect they are the tip of the ice book and its a national problem. You can imagine practices of this type, that have may have given edges to Mayo or Galway will be mimicked elsewhere and its bad luck that Mayo and Galway are under scrutiny. Not condoning what going on in either of those counties but i do think if looked into a lot of similar stuff would be found elsewhere now or historically.

I think what is evident in the two examples in the west, is arrogance and a really poor skill set of the people in charge, you can see that is decisions and managing the individual processes. This was also evident in Cork during the whole PUC episode and while i would be advocate for the ground, the management and governance of what terrible locally.

We have entered an era now, where we have a hybrid model of funding, a centralized communal pot provided by the GAA and a private commercialized revenue stream counties can raise funds through - " corporate fundraising", sponsorship, commercial deals, levying clubs etc. we have reached the advent where millions are passing through county coffers a year and that given the current decentralized corporate structure in place by the GAA will inevitably lead to either alleged purposeful or accidental misuse of these funds by people who may not have the competency or spirit to use those funds in the correct way.

Regardless of Galway, Mayo or Cork, i would suspect much like Irish water there is use waste all over the system and leaking from all pipes. The GAA needs to get their arms around this and in this day and age when multi national companies, high profile donars and the general public are contributing to a voluntary organisation their has to be a charter of good governance, similar structures, transparency and accountability. Currently none of those things exist.

Nuts and bolts, all counties need to publish their annual audited accounts, income and outgoing. The public need to have confidence in what they care contributing to. The also need to publish what each county boards structure in and have a policy around complaint and how those complaints are investigated and how accountability and sanction worked if complaints or alleged misappropriation is judged apt.

Ridiculous scenes this week of Donkey songs, civil war and clubs turning on their county board do nothing for GAA and or its profile nationally. regardless of the county if you were donar or sponsor would recent events and the above make you likely or not to invest in GAA, i would suggest the latter.

Obviously things arent right out west and that needs looking into, but i suspect its the tip of the ice berg nationally."
Every point you make is spot on & your correct if you were a potential sponsor with a large six figure sum of your hard earned money to donate, would you give it to these guys, who not only don't appreciate it but take it for granted & openly mock people ?
You are right in saying that it is only the tip of the iceberg as it is endemic across the country.
So how has it mushroomed, well we had an ex DG do a famous investigation into alleged under the counter payments to managers at club & county level & yet he claimed he couldn't find one instance, when it's happening right across the board. Thousands of managers doing the rounds with clubs around the country earning large five figure sums of cash & not declaring it to Revenue. This has lead to serious disharmony in many clubs & led to people walking away & leaving the skull duggery go unchecked, it has also led to many clubs verging on financial collapse. So many people within the GAA saw themselves as untouchable & things mushroom. The GAA don't want this to come out as many high profile figures at Inter County level would be exposed. This goes all the way to inside the highest level of national governance. The fact is that Croke Park have being involved with Galway & Mayo for some time now & yet the mess is getting bigger & the lack of transparency & clarity from Croke Park on the issues is unbelievable. They need to start issuing statements as to their roles & advice given. This will not happen as they hope once the initial furore dies down they will be able to sweep it all under the carpet. The figures involved in Galway & Mayo & fraudulent activity & non existent corporate governance is no different than the FAI, but to date the State have turned a blind eye, the very reason that these things have mushroomed in the first place. The arms of the State & in particular Revenue now need to step in, there are multiples of undeclared income out there that needs to be followed. The GAA are reaping what they sowed & huge exposures are yet to come. Dishonesty breeds dishonesty.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 08/11/2019 00:21:38    2248474

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Every point you make is spot on & your correct if you were a potential sponsor with a large six figure sum of your hard earned money to donate, would you give it to these guys, who not only don't appreciate it but take it for granted & openly mock people ?
You are right in saying that it is only the tip of the iceberg as it is endemic across the country.
So how has it mushroomed, well we had an ex DG do a famous investigation into alleged under the counter payments to managers at club & county level & yet he claimed he couldn't find one instance, when it's happening right across the board. Thousands of managers doing the rounds with clubs around the country earning large five figure sums of cash & not declaring it to Revenue. This has lead to serious disharmony in many clubs & led to people walking away & leaving the skull duggery go unchecked, it has also led to many clubs verging on financial collapse. So many people within the GAA saw themselves as untouchable & things mushroom. The GAA don't want this to come out as many high profile figures at Inter County level would be exposed. This goes all the way to inside the highest level of national governance. The fact is that Croke Park have being involved with Galway & Mayo for some time now & yet the mess is getting bigger & the lack of transparency & clarity from Croke Park on the issues is unbelievable. They need to start issuing statements as to their roles & advice given. This will not happen as they hope once the initial furore dies down they will be able to sweep it all under the carpet. The figures involved in Galway & Mayo & fraudulent activity & non existent corporate governance is no different than the FAI, but to date the State have turned a blind eye, the very reason that these things have mushroomed in the first place. The arms of the State & in particular Revenue now need to step in, there are multiples of undeclared income out there that needs to be followed. The GAA are reaping what they sowed & huge exposures are yet to come. Dishonesty breeds dishonesty."
Agree wholly and excellent post.

What is really surprising in this instance is that there seems to be zero recognition of the significance of the issues and stories and broader meaning for the game nationally in journalism or the broader media, all i have heard is just the comical and slagging stuff about Donkeys and jokes about Supermacs, journalism content to have a veiled arrogant laugh at the backward GAA, sure its only ammeter. In many ways it suits the GAA


When really and i agree agree totally what is going in every structure of the game from club up to inter county is self serving, the GAA itself has a turnover of nearly 70 million euro, away from that Counties through sponsorship donations, commercial deals and central funding are not multi million euro organisations. In many ways its actually the most financially benefited sport in country, enjoying all the benefits of funding Sport can raise, with less liability given its participants are ammeter. Huge sums of money come into the GAA and to County Boards.

One thing we have seen in sports who have similar scandals is that their is an inbuilt culture of arrogance and inappropriate norms and an "my empire mentality". Like politics there are career administrators who benefit hugely from partaking in the running of the game, with zero competency or skillsets to be part of a multi million euro organisation be it at a rational level or a county level.

You are correct when you say its top the bottom, its visual at club level, county board level, congress level, committee level on to the executive. Its why bizarre decisions are made against the will of the majority like a two tier championship or advanced marks or Dublin playing two quarter final games outside Corke Park.

Ive long held the belief that most things are swept under the carpet by the GAA, financial irregularity liek we've seen recently, overspends, payments even alleged doping. Where the career ladder is there from to to bottom and everyone is culpable, by association at present or in the past there is no culture for change and little empires are created in both the micro or macro across the country.

In no other multi million euro organisation, is there no charter of governance, is there no requirement to publish audited accounts (county level), or an accountable procedure for mal practice or misappropriation. Its a kin to what the FAI was and also the scandals at Rehab and Goal in recent years as voluntary organisations. like their the culture supports dishonesty. It can be seen in how Galway and particularly Mayo are handling things in the west, also how the GAA are allowing them to handle it and support the culture of entitlement, secrecy and arrogance on view.

Its a house of cards though, it will all fall eventually and their is a scandal brewing just a matter of when as i have no doubt this runs deep nationally in many counties.

I am very disappointed in the media though, this is a story waiting to be investigated, yet not one wants to unravel it, its al part of the cozy cartel and despite your opinion they are content enough just to write woe is me articles about Dublin and their GDF and AIG sponsorship, that about the limit of their analysis and interest.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 08/11/2019 10:20:48    2248514

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Every point you make is spot on & your correct if you were a potential sponsor with a large six figure sum of your hard earned money to donate, would you give it to these guys, who not only don't appreciate it but take it for granted & openly mock people ?
You are right in saying that it is only the tip of the iceberg as it is endemic across the country.
So how has it mushroomed, well we had an ex DG do a famous investigation into alleged under the counter payments to managers at club & county level & yet he claimed he couldn't find one instance, when it's happening right across the board. Thousands of managers doing the rounds with clubs around the country earning large five figure sums of cash & not declaring it to Revenue. This has lead to serious disharmony in many clubs & led to people walking away & leaving the skull duggery go unchecked, it has also led to many clubs verging on financial collapse. So many people within the GAA saw themselves as untouchable & things mushroom. The GAA don't want this to come out as many high profile figures at Inter County level would be exposed. This goes all the way to inside the highest level of national governance. The fact is that Croke Park have being involved with Galway & Mayo for some time now & yet the mess is getting bigger & the lack of transparency & clarity from Croke Park on the issues is unbelievable. They need to start issuing statements as to their roles & advice given. This will not happen as they hope once the initial furore dies down they will be able to sweep it all under the carpet. The figures involved in Galway & Mayo & fraudulent activity & non existent corporate governance is no different than the FAI, but to date the State have turned a blind eye, the very reason that these things have mushroomed in the first place. The arms of the State & in particular Revenue now need to step in, there are multiples of undeclared income out there that needs to be followed. The GAA are reaping what they sowed & huge exposures are yet to come. Dishonesty breeds dishonesty."
Maybe the Government should bail out Galway and Mayo GAA. Like the 20 million euros they have given to Connacht Rugby and the 16 million to the Greyhound board.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2517 - 08/11/2019 14:43:20    2248585

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In the midst of all of this "frenzy" about GAA matters financial. Bear in mind that mostly the County boards are run by amateur volunteers. Part time people who freely give up their time and energy. It is not a conspiracy. Other sports have problems- Irish Greyhound board, FAI and even the might IRFU. The IRFU needed 191 million to rebuild the Aviva, from the Irish taxpayer where was the good practice there. What is to be done with the GAA? Well having full time financial officers might help. Hiring good accountants also. Maybe even having county board meetings on line too. A lot of charities publish accounts. GAA counties should publish annual accounts. Maybe they do. Galway GAA probably need a marketing ploy now to stop the negative publicity.
Finally Moc.dna- if Connacht Rugby is so great, why do they need 20 million euros from Irish government?

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2517 - 08/11/2019 14:50:38    2248586

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Every point you make is spot on & your correct if you were a potential sponsor with a large six figure sum of your hard earned money to donate, would you give it to these guys, who not only don't appreciate it but take it for granted & openly mock people ?
You are right in saying that it is only the tip of the iceberg as it is endemic across the country.
So how has it mushroomed, well we had an ex DG do a famous investigation into alleged under the counter payments to managers at club & county level & yet he claimed he couldn't find one instance, when it's happening right across the board. Thousands of managers doing the rounds with clubs around the country earning large five figure sums of cash & not declaring it to Revenue. This has lead to serious disharmony in many clubs & led to people walking away & leaving the skull duggery go unchecked, it has also led to many clubs verging on financial collapse. So many people within the GAA saw themselves as untouchable & things mushroom. The GAA don't want this to come out as many high profile figures at Inter County level would be exposed. This goes all the way to inside the highest level of national governance. The fact is that Croke Park have being involved with Galway & Mayo for some time now & yet the mess is getting bigger & the lack of transparency & clarity from Croke Park on the issues is unbelievable. They need to start issuing statements as to their roles & advice given. This will not happen as they hope once the initial furore dies down they will be able to sweep it all under the carpet. The figures involved in Galway & Mayo & fraudulent activity & non existent corporate governance is no different than the FAI, but to date the State have turned a blind eye, the very reason that these things have mushroomed in the first place. The arms of the State & in particular Revenue now need to step in, there are multiples of undeclared income out there that needs to be followed. The GAA are reaping what they sowed & huge exposures are yet to come. Dishonesty breeds dishonesty."
If Connacht Rugby is so great why do they need a 20 million euro donation from central government?

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2517 - 08/11/2019 14:51:45    2248588

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