National Forum

Successful Teams In The Future

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Replying To neverright:  "John Horan will manage London to the Tier 4 title and will be made a 'Freeman' of London."
After all his staunch defence of the GAA........ Dublin GAA, must be in with a good shot of freeman of Dublin.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 03/09/2019 00:16:18    2232168

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Kerry obviously. You would think Cork too have the potential.

A less obvious shout for me would be Meath in 5 years. Ironically the Dubs are helping! Those who moved to Meath are getting their kids involved in local clubs. The club young age groups scene is beginning to thrive again. Plus the current Meath team already has some very decent young players.

Dinosbar&grill (Dublin) - Posts: 23 - 03/09/2019 08:07:00    2232194

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Cork- new structures in place and serious work being done at underage. Will be very strong in the next few years

Kerry- underage talent etc but also Mark O'Connor and Stefan Okunbar could return to make appearances as well. O'Connor probably the more likely as he said his ambition is to play for kerry before his career is over.

Donegal- an amount of talented footballers coming through there at the moment. Too good not to be challenging.

Galway- too much talent there not to do something. Need a different manager or a different tactical approach.

Kildare- if Jack gets the likes of Hurley and Flynn back on board to add to the likes of Hyland, Feely etc they could be a serious unit.

macruiskeen (UK) - Posts: 37 - 03/09/2019 08:51:00    2232206

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Government policy involves sucking young people towards high density areas wheather they like it or not.
This is having a major effect on the GAA and if trend continues using existing counties as a structure will become unsustainable.
It will go beyond the splitting Dublin in 2 argument

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 518 - 03/09/2019 09:51:56    2232236

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Replying To Ashrules:  "Government policy involves sucking young people towards high density areas wheather they like it or not.
This is having a major effect on the GAA and if trend continues using existing counties as a structure will become unsustainable.
It will go beyond the splitting Dublin in 2 argument"
Wouldn't be a big problem if we had good public transport and more investment in regional cities/towns.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 03/09/2019 10:49:39    2232272

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Replying To Ashrules:  "Government policy involves sucking young people towards high density areas wheather they like it or not.
This is having a major effect on the GAA and if trend continues using existing counties as a structure will become unsustainable.
It will go beyond the splitting Dublin in 2 argument"
Spot on.

This is the elephant in the room for the GAA. There is a deliberate, but covert policy, to de-populate rural Ireland and move swathes of people into urban centres.

The truth is virtually all economic activity is geared eastwards in Ireland, whether that be in Belfast, or Dublin, and this will have obvious knock-on effects for rural clubs.

Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 03/09/2019 11:04:59    2232281

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "Spot on.

This is the elephant in the room for the GAA. There is a deliberate, but covert policy, to de-populate rural Ireland and move swathes of people into urban centres.

The truth is virtually all economic activity is geared eastwards in Ireland, whether that be in Belfast, or Dublin, and this will have obvious knock-on effects for rural clubs."
It isnt a deliberate policy to depopulate rural ireland.
Just laziness and poor decisions in other areas.
Overwhelming majority of major economic activity has always been geared eastwards in Ireland anyway

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3495 - 03/09/2019 11:14:35    2232286

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Replying To macruiskeen:  "Cork- new structures in place and serious work being done at underage. Will be very strong in the next few years

Kerry- underage talent etc but also Mark O'Connor and Stefan Okunbar could return to make appearances as well. O'Connor probably the more likely as he said his ambition is to play for kerry before his career is over.

Donegal- an amount of talented footballers coming through there at the moment. Too good not to be challenging.

Galway- too much talent there not to do something. Need a different manager or a different tactical approach.

Kildare- if Jack gets the likes of Hurley and Flynn back on board to add to the likes of Hyland, Feely etc they could be a serious unit."
Surely Tyrone and Mayo have the capacity to challenge as well?

On Mark O'Connor he has signed a big new contract with Geelong and effectively closed the door on a return to Kerry earlier in the year saying he has made his choice etc. Good luck to him. Jury is out on Okunbar as a player he is probably more suited to the AFL. Our big concern now is young midfielder Paul O'Shea who is being courted by the Aussie scouts, he is a first cousin of David Cliffords as it happens.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 03/09/2019 11:27:42    2232297

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Replying To macruiskeen:  "Cork- new structures in place and serious work being done at underage. Will be very strong in the next few years

Kerry- underage talent etc but also Mark O'Connor and Stefan Okunbar could return to make appearances as well. O'Connor probably the more likely as he said his ambition is to play for kerry before his career is over.

Donegal- an amount of talented footballers coming through there at the moment. Too good not to be challenging.

Galway- too much talent there not to do something. Need a different manager or a different tactical approach.

Kildare- if Jack gets the likes of Hurley and Flynn back on board to add to the likes of Hyland, Feely etc they could be a serious unit."
Absolutely 0 chance Mark O'Connor ever comes back. One of the most improved players in the AFL this year and has new contract now. Way too important to the team to leave.

galway19 (Galway) - Posts: 672 - 03/09/2019 11:51:55    2232314

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The trend of the last few years has been that the biggest spenders have been the successful teams. This is not a dig at Dublin. It's no coincidence that the teams spending the most on preparation (eg Kerry, Mayo, Dublin, Tyrone) have been the teams competing for the big prizes.

Instead of looking at who has potential at underage you need to look at who can potentially attract the kind of money to allow them to compete (like Jim McG did with Donegal).

The bad news for the future of the game is that this really limits your list of contenders to a small number.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 03/09/2019 12:27:53    2232339

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Replying To Greenfield:  "The trend of the last few years has been that the biggest spenders have been the successful teams. This is not a dig at Dublin. It's no coincidence that the teams spending the most on preparation (eg Kerry, Mayo, Dublin, Tyrone) have been the teams competing for the big prizes.

Instead of looking at who has potential at underage you need to look at who can potentially attract the kind of money to allow them to compete (like Jim McG did with Donegal).

The bad news for the future of the game is that this really limits your list of contenders to a small number."
Is that not a chicken and egg scenario tho?

Did those teams spend more on preparation BECAUSE they were successful, played more games, kept their panel training into late August/September, etc.?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 03/09/2019 12:59:03    2232361

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Is that not a chicken and egg scenario tho?

Did those teams spend more on preparation BECAUSE they were successful, played more games, kept their panel training into late August/September, etc.?"
I agree with you that this is the quandary we now find ourselves in.

I don't see a way for the majority of counties to ever break in to the top bracket anymore.

Counties like Cavan and Meath would be well placed to attract the finances needed if they can make the initial progress, but I think there are many many counties who wouldn't.

Tier 2 is not going to be a solution for these counties either as the hurling competitions suggest it will treated with contempt so won't be very useful in attracting money.

It's sad that the amateur games have come to this. Every discussion that you have has money at the very heart of it and it's killing the association.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 03/09/2019 13:49:06    2232384

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Replying To Greenfield:  "The trend of the last few years has been that the biggest spenders have been the successful teams. This is not a dig at Dublin. It's no coincidence that the teams spending the most on preparation (eg Kerry, Mayo, Dublin, Tyrone) have been the teams competing for the big prizes.

Instead of looking at who has potential at underage you need to look at who can potentially attract the kind of money to allow them to compete (like Jim McG did with Donegal).

The bad news for the future of the game is that this really limits your list of contenders to a small number."
But the further you get the more you have to spend. So with success comes extra financial strain and therefore more cash needed. I know in Mayo huge sums have been fundraised from fans and wealth ex pats in the US and UK to keep the show on the road.

Bringing a team and all associated backroom etc to Dublin 5/6 times a year ain't cheap.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 03/09/2019 13:58:20    2232386

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Other than the likes of Dublin in football and Tipperary in hurling, what teams will be successful 5 - 10 years from now in both codes? I'll make two wild predictions. Sligo will be in the Joe McDonagh and London will finally be competitive in football."
Dublin cork and kerry in football.

Dublin, cork, Tipp, wexford, galway, Limerick and kilkenny in hurling.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 03/09/2019 14:04:57    2232390

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With the economy not great Kerry Group and the urban nature of Dublin backed by good sponsorship are setting up a shootout similar to the 70's and 80's. Due to it's geography and being close to Belfast and Dublin if an Ulster team can bring together a quality squad at the one time they may be able to make an impact. But for me the economy has an impact on the GAA and as a result it's hard to see a team outside Dublin and Kerry winning an All Ireland in the next decade. It's why I've always smiled when Kerry posters in particular mention the money Dublin generate as it's a county who have always been protected from a recession due to having the backing of one of the largest multi national companies in Ireland.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 03/09/2019 14:22:38    2232400

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Kerry and Dublin will dominate, Donegal Galway Tyrone and maybe Cork will get chance at an All Ireland but the traditional big 2 will be the teams to beat.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2739 - 03/09/2019 14:29:38    2232405

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Replying To Greenfield:  "The trend of the last few years has been that the biggest spenders have been the successful teams. This is not a dig at Dublin. It's no coincidence that the teams spending the most on preparation (eg Kerry, Mayo, Dublin, Tyrone) have been the teams competing for the big prizes.

Instead of looking at who has potential at underage you need to look at who can potentially attract the kind of money to allow them to compete (like Jim McG did with Donegal).

The bad news for the future of the game is that this really limits your list of contenders to a small number."
I agree that money has a huge impact but the reality is that it has always been the case that the contenders for the All Ireland has been a small number. As is the same in every senior county championship. Yes teams will come and go with talented generations and challenge and win for period of time but generally it will always be the same small numbers of contenders that keep winning.

Like I said every county championship is the same, almost every other sport is the same, one team wins (usually any given team from a select few of perennial winners) and the rest lose! That would be fine if we were any other sport but in reality we are not, despite what some revisionists would have you think.

Those in charge and some members in general would do well to remind themselves of the main aim of the organisation.

"The Association is a National Organisation which has as
its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity
in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and
promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."

The only way to counteract the dominance of the few and have as many, thriving competing counties as possible (which in turn strengthens the National Identity by getting people involved in gaelic games) is to have a system like the franchised leagues in America where the worst performing teams are guaranteed the best upcoming talent. Obviously that cant be the case for GAA as players can only play for their county.

The only alternative I can think of is that the worst performing counties receive the biggest share of development money and the best receive the smallest amount on a year by year basis. This is something which should already be in place.

Antifa (Donegal) - Posts: 143 - 03/09/2019 15:11:53    2232425

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Surely Tyrone and Mayo have the capacity to challenge as well?

On Mark O'Connor he has signed a big new contract with Geelong and effectively closed the door on a return to Kerry earlier in the year saying he has made his choice etc. Good luck to him. Jury is out on Okunbar as a player he is probably more suited to the AFL. Our big concern now is young midfielder Paul O'Shea who is being courted by the Aussie scouts, he is a first cousin of David Cliffords as it happens."
Paul O'Shea would be a concern alright. Still think Mark O'Connor will come home to play for Kerry at some stage.

macruiskeen (UK) - Posts: 37 - 03/09/2019 15:13:40    2232426

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Replying To yew_tree:  "But the further you get the more you have to spend. So with success comes extra financial strain and therefore more cash needed. I know in Mayo huge sums have been fundraised from fans and wealth ex pats in the US and UK to keep the show on the road.

Bringing a team and all associated backroom etc to Dublin 5/6 times a year ain't cheap."
That would have something to do with it.

The 2018 v 2017 figures for Mayo would back that up.

As far as I can find it was 1,542,647 spend in 2017, against 1,194,510 in 2018 when there was no All Ireland series involvement.

However the Mayo 2018 spend was still way above others. For example, Cavan had a good league campaign in 2018 and exited the qualifiers at the same stage as Mayo, but their spend was only 688,140.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 03/09/2019 15:57:57    2232455

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Dublin's neighbouring counties Louth, Meath, Kildare and Wicklow should have a good chance when the kids in all the new developments in commuter towns come of age.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 03/09/2019 17:13:47    2232475

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