HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

National Forum

Cork Under 20'S

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post

You need to Login to Post

Replying To woops: "Seriously....TheHermit. Filtering away talent? he has coached AI winning teams across 3 decades from underage to senior and back to underage. The 3 year u20 stint didnt go great largely due to being without the star players from those AI winning teams. Mark o Connor, David Clifford and Sean o Se were the 3 outstanding minor players from the winning teams and he had to do without them over the years. Cork and Kerry were around the same level with all players available at minor level , kerry without the star players were not half the team. It was an awful performance last night anyway. To me it looks like some lads, minor were their prime and havent developed in the same way the Cork lads have. They bullied us and kicked some unbelievable scores. Jack and his team deserve to be criticized for the performance last night, it was total crap. But seems like there is going to be a cohort in Kerry happy to see the back of jack , who would be our best senior manager since Micko and has done a lot for kerry underage talent. Cant see Jack and his management staying on ,no harm in other guys getting a go but seems like an "Et tu Brute" moment where Jack's achievements are easily forgotten. See another county's gain after this though." Your point around the teams being close at minor is very true, albeit that Kerry team were a couple of points better. I made that point before that Cork gave that Kerry minor team the toughest test. Taking Clifford especially out of any team, even more so u20 will seriously reduce the capabilities when it comes to attacking options. That being said, I don't think that Kerry team, even without Clifford did themselves justice. I fancied Cork to win last night but it should have been by the odd point of two, given the talent in that Kerry panel. BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 311 - 19/07/2019 09:58:58 2213057 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "Is he?? Remember he's missing some of those minors, like Clifford and O'Shea because they're stars of the senior team." That's 2 players, what about the rest? All of them have 1 or even 2 minor medals! Listen this isn't a kneejerk reaction to last night, its been the same for the past three years. He should have been shown the door since the Galway semi-final in 2017. Nothing has changed, again he has brought a Kerry team into a game which looked tired, lethargic and was simply not up to the fight. They were second to every ball, sloppy and got easily disposed in the tackle. Cork were outstanding and if we lost in a tight game you couldn't complain -- but we got a hiding and no team with the talent and potential that they have, not to mention the pedigree, should be getting a hiding like that. They looked like a team thrown together on the morning of the game. I'm sorry Jack did great stuff for Kerry in the past but he has been 3 years at this and we've been shown up when it counted most in all those years. Plenty of talented coaches down here, time to let another one take the reigns. TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 19/07/2019 09:59:21 2213058 Link
Replying To woops: "Seriously....TheHermit. Filtering away talent? he has coached AI winning teams across 3 decades from underage to senior and back to underage. The 3 year u20 stint didnt go great largely due to being without the star players from those AI winning teams. Mark o Connor, David Clifford and Sean o Se were the 3 outstanding minor players from the winning teams and he had to do without them over the years. Cork and Kerry were around the same level with all players available at minor level , kerry without the star players were not half the team. It was an awful performance last night anyway. To me it looks like some lads, minor were their prime and havent developed in the same way the Cork lads have. They bullied us and kicked some unbelievable scores. Jack and his team deserve to be criticized for the performance last night, it was total crap. But seems like there is going to be a cohort in Kerry happy to see the back of jack , who would be our best senior manager since Micko and has done a lot for kerry underage talent. Cant see Jack and his management staying on ,no harm in other guys getting a go but seems like an "Et tu Brute" moment where Jack's achievements are easily forgotten. See another county's gain after this though." Woops I admire, respect and appreciate greatly what Jack has done for us in the past. I never could understand the antipathy and indeed hostility there was to him in some parts of the county when he was senior manager. However, he's had 3 years at this and no lessons have been learned. The same flaws and lack of gameplan that was there against Galway in 2017 was evident again last night. It just looks like the game has passed him by at this stage and for whatever reason he can't work the oracle at all at this level. No shame in defeat to a great Cork side but there is no way a Kerry team with so much winning talent should be getting a hammering like that. It's time for a change of direction, our record in this grade the last 10 years is pathetic. We got the minor set-up sorted time to do the same now for the next grade up. TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 19/07/2019 10:05:42 2213060 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "How wrong is it that county players like Clifford are not allowed play at this level? Ridiculous stuff, Kerry with Clifford probably win that game but now it's low morale for Kerry football and if their seniors don't win Sam it's a bad year for Kerry football , where as if Clifford plays and they win the all Ireland its a great moral boost for the county. Why is this rule in place? Kerry are being done over big time by this rule more than any other county I can't see how this is a fair rule." It's to protect the players Clon. I've no issue with it really. Imagine if Clifford played last night and got injured for the weekend? There would be war. I preferred the old U21 format that had the competition wrapped up before the senior championship. I don't know why they changed it. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 19/07/2019 10:14:11 2213065 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "How wrong is it that county players like Clifford are not allowed play at this level? Ridiculous stuff, Kerry with Clifford probably win that game but now it's low morale for Kerry football and if their seniors don't win Sam it's a bad year for Kerry football , where as if Clifford plays and they win the all Ireland its a great moral boost for the county. Why is this rule in place? Kerry are being done over big time by this rule more than any other county I can't see how this is a fair rule." It's not just that, it's the decision to make it U-20 in the first place and also moving the competition to the summer months. It's completely downgraded it imo. Tiny crowd in Cork last night and given its sandwiched between the first two rounds of the Super 8s, most of the country probably had no idea this game was on. Profile has hugely suffered. But just because David the Great wasn't available doesn't excuse how poorly coached the team that was sent out last night seemed to be! TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 19/07/2019 10:19:06 2213066 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "How wrong is it that county players like Clifford are not allowed play at this level? Ridiculous stuff, Kerry with Clifford probably win that game but now it's low morale for Kerry football and if their seniors don't win Sam it's a bad year for Kerry football , where as if Clifford plays and they win the all Ireland its a great moral boost for the county. Why is this rule in place? Kerry are being done over big time by this rule more than any other county I can't see how this is a fair rule." Clon Is this rule in place for the hurlers I wonder or is it only football? KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 19/07/2019 10:23:53 2213069 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "How wrong is it that county players like Clifford are not allowed play at this level? Ridiculous stuff, Kerry with Clifford probably win that game but now it's low morale for Kerry football and if their seniors don't win Sam it's a bad year for Kerry football , where as if Clifford plays and they win the all Ireland its a great moral boost for the county. Why is this rule in place? Kerry are being done over big time by this rule more than any other county I can't see how this is a fair rule." I agree, this championship should be seen as just that and not just a stepping stone to senior. Counties should be allowed compete for it with all resources available to them. realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8586 - 19/07/2019 10:25:39 2213070 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Clon Is this rule in place for the hurlers I wonder or is it only football?" I believe it's only football, as Adrian Mullen has played for the Kilkenny seniors and U20s this summer, with both still in their championships. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2037 - 19/07/2019 10:43:13 2213076 Link
Replying To WanPintWin: "I believe it's only football, as Adrian Mullen has played for the Kilkenny seniors and U20s this summer, with both still in their championships." That's a bit of a double standard wanpointwin, how did the GAA get away with that? KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 19/07/2019 11:42:05 2213107 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "It's to protect the players Clon. I've no issue with it really. Imagine if Clifford played last night and got injured for the weekend? There would be war. I preferred the old U21 format that had the competition wrapped up before the senior championship. I don't know why they changed it." Ridiculous, very few of these Kerry players will go on and play senior with Kerry so their only chance of all Ireland glory has been robbed from them cause Of some crazy knew rule. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 19/07/2019 11:54:28 2213111 Link
I actually thought that game was low on quality, apart from a few obvious good scores. It was the same as most U20 ulster games I was at this year. I agree with Hermit that lowering this division to U20 has absolutely destroyed it, the quality has definitely gone down and the fact that the best players aren't allowed to play because they are part of the senior panel is a joke. Typical GAA, nothing else matters except the money making championships. TakeyourPoint. (Tyrone) - Posts: 133 - 19/07/2019 12:09:03 2213120 Link
Looking at the roll of honour in this competition (Munster u-21/u-20), I was amased to see that Kerry have only won it four times in the last 20 years, whereas Cork have won 12 times. Cork were also only beaten by a point in 2015 to a Tipp team that very nearly won the All Ireland against Tyrone. They have pretty much dominated this decade at this level and also won an All Ireland in 2009. What are the main reasons for this talent being lost at senior level or why they are they not fulfilling their potential? Obviously there is an unbelievable amount of talent there. A number of players have opted for hurling I know, but it must be hugely frustrating if you are a Cork supporter, considering the players that are there. HandballRef (Donegal) - Posts: 520 - 19/07/2019 13:00:10 2213139 Link
Replying To TakeyourPoint.: "I actually thought that game was low on quality, apart from a few obvious good scores. It was the same as most U20 ulster games I was at this year. I agree with Hermit that lowering this division to U20 has absolutely destroyed it, the quality has definitely gone down and the fact that the best players aren't allowed to play because they are part of the senior panel is a joke. Typical GAA, nothing else matters except the money making championships." I'd agree to an extent, but in reality, most counties aren't really missing anyone. Fair enough, Kerry have a very obvious example in Clifford (and O'Connor), but I can't think of anyone else. In most of these scenarios, the senior managers have left the players to develop at U20. I believe Sean Mulkerrin would have been on the senior panel this year in Galway, but they let him play U20. The same with Canavan's young lad in Tyrone. Almost all teams are picking from the full compliment, so you can't argue that the quality has plummeted because of that. I do think that the timing has impacted on the level of exposure it's getting though. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2037 - 19/07/2019 13:04:09 2213144 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "Ridiculous, very few of these Kerry players will go on and play senior with Kerry so their only chance of all Ireland glory has been robbed from them cause Of some crazy knew rule." new. Cork senior team will be a serious side soon some class players all over that team last night. clondalkindub (Dublin)* - Posts: 9926 - 19/07/2019 13:07:16 2213145 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "That's a bit of a double standard wanpointwin, how did the GAA get away with that?" It's daft alright. If they have a specific reason for it, then surely it would apply to hurling too. I don't think there should be any restriction. Let the managers decide if they want to or not. The senior manager will have the final say anyway. Since it's straight knockout, there would be very few extra games for the lads. If Kerry had Clifford available, they obviously wouldn't have played him in the Munster semi, and could have decided if he played last night. It would have been one extra game only for him (or a part of game if they brought him on). WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2037 - 19/07/2019 13:13:16 2213147 Link
Replying To WanPintWin: "It's daft alright. If they have a specific reason for it, then surely it would apply to hurling too. I don't think there should be any restriction. Let the managers decide if they want to or not. The senior manager will have the final say anyway. Since it's straight knockout, there would be very few extra games for the lads. If Kerry had Clifford available, they obviously wouldn't have played him in the Munster semi, and could have decided if he played last night. It would have been one extra game only for him (or a part of game if they brought him on)." exactly sure they could train away with the seniors and play half a game for the 20s I don't think the GAA trust football managers. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 19/07/2019 13:47:06 2213159 Link
So if Clifford played last night , what's the punishment to Kerry ? clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 19/07/2019 13:51:37 2213162 Link
Replying To WanPintWin: "I'd agree to an extent, but in reality, most counties aren't really missing anyone. Fair enough, Kerry have a very obvious example in Clifford (and O'Connor), but I can't think of anyone else. In most of these scenarios, the senior managers have left the players to develop at U20. I believe Sean Mulkerrin would have been on the senior panel this year in Galway, but they let him play U20. The same with Canavan's young lad in Tyrone. Almost all teams are picking from the full compliment, so you can't argue that the quality has plummeted because of that. I do think that the timing has impacted on the level of exposure it's getting though." Well the truth is a load of lads all over the country have opted out of u20 the reason is lot of lads doing the leaving cert at 18 and 19 yrs of age in the past lads were 16 and 17 doing the leaving so I think the timing of the competition hasn't helped for a lot of reasons I feel they devalued this grade big time by all the changes the u21 grade was the right age (as thesaying goes if it aint broke don't fix it) rhudson (Galway) - Posts: 1478 - 19/07/2019 13:55:58 2213166 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "So if Clifford played last night , what's the punishment to Kerry ?" I'd say the punishment would have been we would have had to forfeit the game had we won I'd be thinking clon. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 19/07/2019 14:04:59 2213172 Link
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "I'd say the punishment would have been we would have had to forfeit the game had we won I'd be thinking clon." It's absolutely a ridiculous rule , probably the worst one they've ever made up, if Kerry want to play Clifford in an under 20 championship game that's their business and no one else's. Madness clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 19/07/2019 14:57:31 2213193 Link