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Replying To seanie_boy: "Yeh we all see your previous post and sure would expect no less from somebody like you who clearly has no love for Tyrone. The amount of around the throat/neck challenges you got away with today was a disgrace. Young Darcy should've seen black for hauling down Mattie Donnelly too.Plus the lad bending Colm Cavs arm up his back when he was on ground. If the commentators are questioning the officiating then we know we have a point. Just cos you can't admit it doesn't mean it isn't true." It's true, I don't have any love for Tyrone. Is everyone supposed to love Tyrone? But I don't have anything against them either. If Roscommon had won I'd be enjoying that victory and not be on here griping about something. It must be awful for you with that chip on your shoulder that you can't just celebrate your win and be gracious about it.
Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 14/07/2019 10:12:06
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Replying To BeJasus: "but they haven't transformed themselves, your only codding yourself thinking that.
After the Donegal beating , tyrone reverted back to the old system , saftey 1st with little or no kicking game with blanket in place.
This system may work against the lower ranked teams , but Tyrone will be found out at the semi final stage using that system against any of Mayo/Donegal/ or Kerry." 100% right.
We have not transformed our game at all. We have reverted back to what has failed on the big stage against the big teams time and time again.
What I would say is that when we did play a more traditional style throughout the league it did have some devastating results.
The only hope is that Mickey is using the current system to navigate through the super 8's but has prepped his team to change to a plan B system (I.e. a long kicking, man on man style) when they face Dublin.
I am not that hopeful that this is the case though. I think the Donegal result has put fear back into our management team and they have regressed due to this.
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 14/07/2019 11:26:11
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Replying To BeJasus: "but they haven't transformed themselves, your only codding yourself thinking that.
After the Donegal beating , tyrone reverted back to the old system , saftey 1st with little or no kicking game with blanket in place.
This system may work against the lower ranked teams , but Tyrone will be found out at the semi final stage using that system against any of Mayo/Donegal/ or Kerry." tyrone have transformed themselves in terms of personnell..that was my point...i did not make any comment on their style of play..i'm afraid you are listening to the perceived wisdom of too many experts. Since the donegal game, Richie Donnelly, hampsey, rafferty, mccann, and mcdonnell have all been dropped from the starting 15. They have been replaced by brennan, sludden mccurry, cassidy and hugh pat mcgeary. The team has been transformed in that more effective players have replaced those who were simply going through the motions in the donegal game..the secret of tyrone's transformation from poor early season championship form to their current form is the change in personnell. but then i wouldn't expect the lazy journalism and commentary to pick up on this.
mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 14/07/2019 12:08:32
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I think Mickey will know that things would have to be different against Dublin if they meet. But this team are just not suited to man to man all out game. Cork tried this against Dublin and despite the plaudits lost. The Dubs are well able to take Cork on in a shoot out but Tyrone may not fare as well against Corks stronger running game and it will suit them better to set the trap and hit them on the break.
Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 14/07/2019 12:13:39
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I'm a long term established poster on here and back in the day trolls at least use to put a bit of effort into posts they made but nowadays they aren't even making an effort. (yes I'm looking at you sam1884 (UK) and kingdomfan (Kerry)
Now moving on from the childish behavior from so called adults.
Congrats to Tyrone on a deserved and hard earned win. For us another eye opener to how tough at the top it is, Tyrone might not win the All Ireland but they are well capable of reaching another final and they showed yesterday why in this form they are very difficult to beat.
1st half we really showed how far we have come in one year, a very competitive half of football which we deserved to leading. On 45 minutes when we cut the margin to one point we had the opportunity to hit for home for a famous win but instead it was Tyrone who used all their experience to put a vice grip on the game to push the margin out to 6 points. Credit to our lads they didn't drop the heads as the game ended up in a 4 point loss which was probably was about right on the balance of play and chances created.
Apart from Brian Stack who performed well when introduced we didn't get the desired impact from our bench and the loss of Conor Devaney,Ultan Harney was keenly felt yesterday, Fintan Cregg only getting 10 minutes would suggest he wasn't fully fit yet as i can imagine he would be one of the first subs we would bring on.
Players that stood out the most for us yesterday was was David Murray and Ronan Daly who held in form forwards to 0-1 each. Niall Daly arguably our best player in the championship had another good game yesterday and once he moved onto Sludden his influence on the game was no more. A special mention to Niall Kilroy who worked himself into the ground for the team once more.
Our midfield pairing battled bravely throughout the game and Enda Smith,Cathal Cregg had some good moments both should have scored 1-1 Murtagh was lively throughout but lets not forget we were up against a Tyrone defence with 14 men back at all times who give you zero room to create or score. Conor Cox unfortunately had his worst game in a Roscommon jersey but he scored one beauty of a point 1st half.
The reality of the situation now is we are facing another last 8 exit our best hope is for Cork to beat Tyrone but i can't see that happening as Cork much like us last summer are woeful in defence. Regardless of what happens in our remaining two group games we have had a summer of progress which included a provincial title beating both Galway and Mayo away for the first time since the 70s. The one black spot on the year was relegation and we were very unlucky to fall through the trap door. One of our main objectives for 2020 should be to gain promotion back to Div 1 and then become a established Div 1 team like Monaghan have done so these last 5 years.
The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3744 - 14/07/2019 13:37:58
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Replying To Wally: "100% right.
We have not transformed our game at all. We have reverted back to what has failed on the big stage against the big teams time and time again.
What I would say is that when we did play a more traditional style throughout the league it did have some devastating results.
The only hope is that Mickey is using the current system to navigate through the super 8's but has prepped his team to change to a plan B system (I.e. a long kicking, man on man style) when they face Dublin.
I am not that hopeful that this is the case though. I think the Donegal result has put fear back into our management team and they have regressed due to this." They don't even need to go man to man against Dublin. Just keep a couple more forwards up front. No one seems to be commenting on it but Dublin aren't going man for man. They play a very good blanket and then push a lot of men forward when they get the ball. Very similar to Donegal.
HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 14/07/2019 13:52:59
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Replying To The_analyser: "I'm a long term established poster on here and back in the day trolls at least use to put a bit of effort into posts they made but nowadays they aren't even making an effort. (yes I'm looking at you sam1884 (UK) and kingdomfan (Kerry)
Now moving on from the childish behavior from so called adults.
Congrats to Tyrone on a deserved and hard earned win. For us another eye opener to how tough at the top it is, Tyrone might not win the All Ireland but they are well capable of reaching another final and they showed yesterday why in this form they are very difficult to beat.
1st half we really showed how far we have come in one year, a very competitive half of football which we deserved to leading. On 45 minutes when we cut the margin to one point we had the opportunity to hit for home for a famous win but instead it was Tyrone who used all their experience to put a vice grip on the game to push the margin out to 6 points. Credit to our lads they didn't drop the heads as the game ended up in a 4 point loss which was probably was about right on the balance of play and chances created.
Apart from Brian Stack who performed well when introduced we didn't get the desired impact from our bench and the loss of Conor Devaney,Ultan Harney was keenly felt yesterday, Fintan Cregg only getting 10 minutes would suggest he wasn't fully fit yet as i can imagine he would be one of the first subs we would bring on.
Players that stood out the most for us yesterday was was David Murray and Ronan Daly who held in form forwards to 0-1 each. Niall Daly arguably our best player in the championship had another good game yesterday and once he moved onto Sludden his influence on the game was no more. A special mention to Niall Kilroy who worked himself into the ground for the team once more.
Our midfield pairing battled bravely throughout the game and Enda Smith,Cathal Cregg had some good moments both should have scored 1-1 Murtagh was lively throughout but lets not forget we were up against a Tyrone defence with 14 men back at all times who give you zero room to create or score. Conor Cox unfortunately had his worst game in a Roscommon jersey but he scored one beauty of a point 1st half.
The reality of the situation now is we are facing another last 8 exit our best hope is for Cork to beat Tyrone but i can't see that happening as Cork much like us last summer are woeful in defence. Regardless of what happens in our remaining two group games we have had a summer of progress which included a provincial title beating both Galway and Mayo away for the first time since the 70s. The one black spot on the year was relegation and we were very unlucky to fall through the trap door. One of our main objectives for 2020 should be to gain promotion back to Div 1 and then become a established Div 1 team like Monaghan have done so these last 5 years." I felt our heads did drop in the last quarter. We seemed to accept our fate. A goal would have been huge and was the only hope but apart from the late effort of a high ball in that hit the crossbar we didn't even seem to be trying for one. We also kicked a point late on which seemed to suggest the margin of the loss was one to be controlled but I can't possibly think that was for the purpose of qualifying if score difference became a factor.
We're better than last year so hopefully these lads will stick with it. Still two games to go and good performances will be important
Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 14/07/2019 13:53:07
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Replying To Sindar: "I felt our heads did drop in the last quarter. We seemed to accept our fate. A goal would have been huge and was the only hope but apart from the late effort of a high ball in that hit the crossbar we didn't even seem to be trying for one. We also kicked a point late on which seemed to suggest the margin of the loss was one to be controlled but I can't possibly think that was for the purpose of qualifying if score difference became a factor.
We're better than last year so hopefully these lads will stick with it. Still two games to go and good performances will be important" You felt wrong then as the last quarter was 0-3 each and as you said one of our points could have been a goal. Dropping heads would have resulted in 8 to 10 point defeat which would be very harsh on the effort we put in.
The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3744 - 14/07/2019 14:07:23
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Replying To The_analyser: "You felt wrong then as the last quarter was 0-3 each and as you said one of our points could have been a goal. Dropping heads would have resulted in 8 to 10 point defeat which would be very harsh on the effort we put in." How I felt is not for you to judge!
You're looking at the score as an indicator. Tyrone were in total control of that last quarter. Roscommon couldn't get their hands on the ball and Tyrone were not looking to rack up scores if they didn't need to so would be happy with score parity when already ahead
Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 14/07/2019 14:37:58
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Replying To Sindar: "How I felt is not for you to judge!
You're looking at the score as an indicator. Tyrone were in total control of that last quarter. Roscommon couldn't get their hands on the ball and Tyrone were not looking to rack up scores if they didn't need to so would be happy with score parity when already ahead" The score is as good of indicator than anything. If we had dropped that heads as you "felt" then our defending would have been loose for Tyrone to get in for easy scores and they would then push out the margin of victory out much further then. At no stage in that game did Tyrone drop their excellent defensive system and like any top team they had good control of the game on and off the ball.
The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 3744 - 14/07/2019 15:02:50
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Replying To Sindar: "It's true, I don't have any love for Tyrone. Is everyone supposed to love Tyrone? But I don't have anything against them either. If Roscommon had won I'd be enjoying that victory and not be on here griping about something. It must be awful for you with that chip on your shoulder that you can't just celebrate your win and be gracious about it." Let's just leave it at that. I've never,until yesterday, posted a critical comment on here about your county team and I'm on here for years. I only done it yesterday to point out the inconsistency in officiating. I'm not the only one saying it either so it's hardly a surprise. When our friends from Kerry are saying the same thing then we can't be far off. Good luck to Roscommon.
seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 14/07/2019 15:05:27
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Replying To HighKings: "They don't even need to go man to man against Dublin. Just keep a couple more forwards up front. No one seems to be commenting on it but Dublin aren't going man for man. They play a very good blanket and then push a lot of men forward when they get the ball. Very similar to Donegal." Spot on. No team plays man for man these days.
Tyrone have changed and are kicking more when it's on. People shout about kicking it in, but why kick it when it's 1 vs 2/3. McShane has been a serious addition inside. Arguably he's been the most impressive player in that position / role for any team this year. We just haven't had that for a long time. Peter Harte and Mattie Donnelly also play inside at times and win their ball.
HokeyPokey (Tyrone) - Posts: 1744 - 14/07/2019 15:49:48
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Replying To Wally: "100% right.
We have not transformed our game at all. We have reverted back to what has failed on the big stage against the big teams time and time again.
What I would say is that when we did play a more traditional style throughout the league it did have some devastating results.
The only hope is that Mickey is using the current system to navigate through the super 8's but has prepped his team to change to a plan B system (I.e. a long kicking, man on man style) when they face Dublin.
I am not that hopeful that this is the case though. I think the Donegal result has put fear back into our management team and they have regressed due to this." Wally
My old friend.
I don't want this to descend into the chaos of our previous conversations.
I understand where you are coming from. I know your argument inside out.
But if we played a long ball tactic into the all star elect McShane against Donegal and it failed so horribly it was embarrassing how are we going to do it against the greatest football team in the history of GAA??
It would be embarrassing.
It has to be a hybrid.....a few balls into McShane but keep the counter attacking system
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 14/07/2019 20:17:20
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Replying To The_Fridge: "Wally
My old friend.
I don't want this to descend into the chaos of our previous conversations.
I understand where you are coming from. I know your argument inside out.
But if we played a long ball tactic into the all star elect McShane against Donegal and it failed so horribly it was embarrassing how are we going to do it against the greatest football team in the history of GAA??
It would be embarrassing.
It has to be a hybrid.....a few balls into McShane but keep the counter attacking system" So our new game plan failed against one team one time and therefore we should totally abandon it?
But we should persist with a gameplan that has failed against the big teams more times than I can remember?
Also your point about playing it against Dublin is neither here nor there as the one time we did deploy it against them we actually beat them. Every time we played our usual game against them we have been soundly beaten.
This is what I just don't get about people like you. It's like you just want to accept that we are second best.
If we play our same game against Dublin we will be beaten.
If we try to play a more positive and traditional style of football we might get beaten out the gate...but we might not. It might be the key to unlocking what we have not been able to unlock for the past number of years.
Surely it is worth a shot. Or is a 3-6 point defeat still enough of a moral victory for you??
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 14/07/2019 21:15:10
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Replying To Wally: "So our new game plan failed against one team one time and therefore we should totally abandon it?
But we should persist with a gameplan that has failed against the big teams more times than I can remember?
Also your point about playing it against Dublin is neither here nor there as the one time we did deploy it against them we actually beat them. Every time we played our usual game against them we have been soundly beaten.
This is what I just don't get about people like you. It's like you just want to accept that we are second best.
If we play our same game against Dublin we will be beaten.
If we try to play a more positive and traditional style of football we might get beaten out the gate...but we might not. It might be the key to unlocking what we have not been able to unlock for the past number of years.
Surely it is worth a shot. Or is a 3-6 point defeat still enough of a moral victory for you??" We would get bloody annihilated!!! If we can't do it against Donegal how would we do it against Dublin. Pie in the sky and you well know it. Donegal should have won by ten easy. What did we concede against Donegal? How many goals did they miss?
You seem to live in this world that Tyrone have a forward line of 05 and a defence of 03. Or we have close to the players we had back in the once in a life time generation off the 00's.
If we have a full forward line Mulligan, O'Neill and Canavan and a centre forward of McGuigan by all means fire balls into them all day.
But we don't have that quality of forward. So we have to adapt. Consistently get to semi and finals and find something that wins.
Were you at the games this year? I know you are an armchair supporter and I know you have a hectic professional life, with all the trips to Florida, but I think you should attend games to see how Tyrone play.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 14/07/2019 21:50:50
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Replying To The_Fridge: " Replying To Wally: "So our new game plan failed against one team one time and therefore we should totally abandon it?
But we should persist with a gameplan that has failed against the big teams more times than I can remember?
Also your point about playing it against Dublin is neither here nor there as the one time we did deploy it against them we actually beat them. Every time we played our usual game against them we have been soundly beaten.
This is what I just don't get about people like you. It's like you just want to accept that we are second best.
If we play our same game against Dublin we will be beaten.
If we try to play a more positive and traditional style of football we might get beaten out the gate...but we might not. It might be the key to unlocking what we have not been able to unlock for the past number of years.
Surely it is worth a shot. Or is a 3-6 point defeat still enough of a moral victory for you??" We would get bloody annihilated!!! If we can't do it against Donegal how would we do it against Dublin. Pie in the sky and you well know it. Donegal should have won by ten easy. What did we concede against Donegal? How many goals did they miss? You seem to live in this world that Tyrone have a forward line of 05 and a defence of 03. Or we have close to the players we had back in the once in a life time generation off the 00's. If we have a full forward line Mulligan, O'Neill and Canavan and a centre forward of McGuigan by all means fire balls into them all day. But we don't have that quality of forward. So we have to adapt. Consistently get to semi and finals and find something that wins. Were you at the games this year? I know you are an armchair supporter and I know you have a hectic professional life, with all the trips to Florida, but I think you should attend games to see how Tyrone play."
Tyrone dont have the same calibre of player as the 00s but should they keep doing the same system that has failed them many times before against the top teams? That is literally the definition of insanity. Even colm cavanagh has said recently that tyrone need to change it up and have a plan b.
Tyrone need to run at the top teams and mix it up with direct ling ball. Not just a few long kicks in the entire game. In the final last year when they played colm cavanagh in the forward line they got 1-1 in a short time frame. I have no idea why they didn't keep him up for short spells at a time throughout the game
kevin03 (Tyrone) - Posts: 276 - 14/07/2019 23:26:32
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Replying To The_Fridge: " Replying To Wally: "So our new game plan failed against one team one time and therefore we should totally abandon it?
But we should persist with a gameplan that has failed against the big teams more times than I can remember?
Also your point about playing it against Dublin is neither here nor there as the one time we did deploy it against them we actually beat them. Every time we played our usual game against them we have been soundly beaten.
This is what I just don't get about people like you. It's like you just want to accept that we are second best.
If we play our same game against Dublin we will be beaten.
If we try to play a more positive and traditional style of football we might get beaten out the gate...but we might not. It might be the key to unlocking what we have not been able to unlock for the past number of years.
Surely it is worth a shot. Or is a 3-6 point defeat still enough of a moral victory for you??" We would get bloody annihilated!!! If we can't do it against Donegal how would we do it against Dublin. Pie in the sky and you well know it. Donegal should have won by ten easy. What did we concede against Donegal? How many goals did they miss? You seem to live in this world that Tyrone have a forward line of 05 and a defence of 03. Or we have close to the players we had back in the once in a life time generation off the 00's. If we have a full forward line Mulligan, O'Neill and Canavan and a centre forward of McGuigan by all means fire balls into them all day. But we don't have that quality of forward. So we have to adapt. Consistently get to semi and finals and find something that wins. Were you at the games this year? I know you are an armchair supporter and I know you have a hectic professional life, with all the trips to Florida, but I think you should attend games to see how Tyrone play."
You really do have a problem with going off on a rant and failing to address any of the very valid points which I make in my posts.
It always comes back to claiming that we don't have the players or how I don't attend live games.
Tell me this. We played Dublin in the league and played an offensive long kicking traditional game. We won that match. Probably should have won by more than we did. How did we manage that without getting annihilated?
We have played your tried and trusted way against them regularly from 2011 and have got beaten and fairly comprehensively beaten at that every time.
But look I am not going to have these same arguments with you every year cause let's be honest it gets rather tedious and I always win.
You can keep on insulating our players ability and ignoring the problems with our management and I will keep on fighting the good fight.
Enjoy all those moral victories kid.
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 14/07/2019 23:39:32
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Replying To Wally: " Replying To The_Fridge: "[quote=Wally: "So our new game plan failed against one team one time and therefore we should totally abandon it?
But we should persist with a gameplan that has failed against the big teams more times than I can remember?
Also your point about playing it against Dublin is neither here nor there as the one time we did deploy it against them we actually beat them. Every time we played our usual game against them we have been soundly beaten.
This is what I just don't get about people like you. It's like you just want to accept that we are second best.
If we play our same game against Dublin we will be beaten.
If we try to play a more positive and traditional style of football we might get beaten out the gate...but we might not. It might be the key to unlocking what we have not been able to unlock for the past number of years.
Surely it is worth a shot. Or is a 3-6 point defeat still enough of a moral victory for you??" We would get bloody annihilated!!! If we can't do it against Donegal how would we do it against Dublin. Pie in the sky and you well know it. Donegal should have won by ten easy. What did we concede against Donegal? How many goals did they miss? You seem to live in this world that Tyrone have a forward line of 05 and a defence of 03. Or we have close to the players we had back in the once in a life time generation off the 00's. If we have a full forward line Mulligan, O'Neill and Canavan and a centre forward of McGuigan by all means fire balls into them all day. But we don't have that quality of forward. So we have to adapt. Consistently get to semi and finals and find something that wins. Were you at the games this year? I know you are an armchair supporter and I know you have a hectic professional life, with all the trips to Florida, but I think you should attend games to see how Tyrone play."
You really do have a problem with going off on a rant and failing to address any of the very valid points which I make in my posts.
It always comes back to claiming that we don't have the players or how I don't attend live games.
Tell me this. We played Dublin in the league and played an offensive long kicking traditional game. We won that match. Probably should have won by more than we did. How did we manage that without getting annihilated?
We have played your tried and trusted way against them regularly from 2011 and have got beaten and fairly comprehensively beaten at that every time.
But look I am not going to have these same arguments with you every year cause let's be honest it gets rather tedious and I always win.
You can keep on insulating our players ability and ignoring the problems with our management and I will keep on fighting the good fight.
Enjoy all those moral victories kid."]So your basing Tyrone's long ball effectiveness on one league game against a weakened Dublin team who didn't really care about the league? How did we do against Mayo and Roscommon in the league?
Also we drew with Dublin the year before and had them beat until Dublin Joe gave a very dubious free with the last kick of the game to draw it. We were defensive that day.
Championship and league are completely different. We played the way you wanted against Donegal and they hammered us, simple as. We don't have the players to play the long ball in. Evidence shows this.
If we were playing Kerry next week and play long ball in and left our defence exposed like we did against Donegal we would be hammered. Clifford and Geaney would have a field day and we would be beat out the gate.
I'm not saying we play defensive/counter attacking all the time. We have unearthed an excellent full forward so we now have the option to play some long ball in but our main game plan in counter attacking. We have options now.
I only bought up about you attending games because you turn up for semis and finals which I think is wrong. I have no problem if you don't attend games, just don't take a ticket off someone who have travelled the length of the country thought out the year. Simple
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 15/07/2019 11:55:43
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I think Tyrone go for it when it's on. There's no point playing the ball in long when a team has sweepers. Most teams will do that.
Tyrone have put up some serious scores over the last two/three years.
I expect Tyrone to mix things up when it comes to a potential Semi/Final. Tyrone got caught cold by Dublin 2017 and the occasion seemed to get to a few last year. The main thing is winning at the moment and with a bit of luck...
HokeyPokey (Tyrone) - Posts: 1744 - 15/07/2019 18:44:02
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Replying To HokeyPokey: "I think Tyrone go for it when it's on. There's no point playing the ball in long when a team has sweepers. Most teams will do that.
Tyrone have put up some serious scores over the last two/three years.
I expect Tyrone to mix things up when it comes to a potential Semi/Final. Tyrone got caught cold by Dublin 2017 and the occasion seemed to get to a few last year. The main thing is winning at the moment and with a bit of luck..." Yeah I agree. When it's on by all means play an accurate long ball to McShane.
No point driving 25 balls down the throat of 2 sweepers and 3 full backs, with a midfielder probably dropping back as well a la Donegal.
Recipe for disaster.
As proved by Donegal
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 15/07/2019 20:49:48
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