National Forum

Super 8 General Discussion

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Replying To Thelonesomegoose:  "Donegal with Derry? Be known as Donder"
Sure join us there boss and we can be Donderrim, like some Lord of the Rings placename!

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 31/07/2019 15:25:16    2219131

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Super 8's were the brainchild of the outgoing Ard Stiurothoir, surely somebody could ask him what preparation & planning was entailed around the dead rubber games or was it all just done as a departing vanity project or bending to the pressure exerted by TV Rights & the money they invested. One thing for sure is that every eventuality wasn't thought out & the planning & execution of it was sub standard.
Super 8's are actually killing Gaelic football & attendances are falling dramatically. As for the BS story that was spun about TV rights at the time & the Diaspora by the last President & DG, the sad recent figures where at one stage no one was tuned in to one of our games on SKY, yet viewing figures for a televised game on RTE were massive showed that we were sold a pup."
We've had our disagreements on the Dublin funding threads but I do think you're spot on here.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4518 - 01/08/2019 12:41:13    2219402

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "There's a lot of people pushing a tiered championship agenda. I don't think Sky Sports are calling any shots here but do think some accountants with no feel for the games would prefer to back the elite counties and ignore the rest."
Every county could benefit from a tiered championship done properly.

There'd be promotion and relegation, teams in the second championship would have something meaningful to aspire to, competing in the top competition.

I think the latter stages of a tiered championship would draw public attention to it, but the latter stages have to be played at the same time as the latter stages of the All Ireland when the number of the top competition's matches have thinned out.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4518 - 01/08/2019 12:47:57    2219404

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Replying To Antifa:  "So it's come to this. Despite all the flaws we've seen with the super 8's so far, and the flak the GAA has taken over it surely this is how the idea was envisioned. A Saturday night game against two heavyweights to decide who reaches the All Ireland semi-finals. A capacity (albeit reduced) crowd in a buzzing provincial town. After two tough games each in the group it all comes down to this, it's do or die and the country eagerly awaits a titanic tussle set to the dazzling backdrop of colour noise and passion from the crowd!

Except they won't get to see it. The game is behind a Sky Sports pay wall. The viewing audience will be a fraction of what it would have been if it was on the national broadcaster. Fans of both teams will be at the game, or find a way to watch it, granted. But what about the hundreds of thousands of casual fans throughout the country who now won't see it. Not forgetting the casual fans within the competing counties. There's no shortage of families out there with no affiliation to the GAA and its watching games like this which often makes a child to want to play our games, who otherwise wouldn't have wanted to. Then the parent gets involved in helping out, and soon the whole family are active members of their club and the thing grows and grows…

What price does the GAA put on having our games exposed to a maximum audience and to give our games maximum exposure? Does the money received by sky offset an audience drop of hundreds of thousands that otherwise would have been watching. I don't think it does. Without the national exposure that free to air live games give, the games really loose something special.

Oh, and on the Sunday there will be two dead rubbers in the "business end" of the championship. "Super" 8's indeed."
If it wasn't for sky, most counties wouldn't see games, as rte has always put Dublin and Kerry's as top priority.

Paddy1967 (Australia) - Posts: 2 - 01/08/2019 14:51:01    2219465

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Every county could benefit from a tiered championship done properly.

There'd be promotion and relegation, teams in the second championship would have something meaningful to aspire to, competing in the top competition.

I think the latter stages of a tiered championship would draw public attention to it, but the latter stages have to be played at the same time as the latter stages of the All Ireland when the number of the top competition's matches have thinned out."
If there's no plans put in place to improve the standards of tier two counties their standards will regress if they've no chance of playing counties of a decent standard. The attraction of 'Having something to aspire to' will only go so far when players can see the widening gulf in class and people staying away from poor standard games. Eventually some weaker county players will go and work in Tier One counties or use their skills to play other sports. The GAA aren't setting up a tiered championship for anyone's benefit but their own. Milking the media benefits from the elite counties. Ultimately though it's up to players and coaches from so-called weaker counties what they will do.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7959 - 01/08/2019 15:22:43    2219489

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Every county could benefit from a tiered championship done properly.

There'd be promotion and relegation, teams in the second championship would have something meaningful to aspire to, competing in the top competition.

I think the latter stages of a tiered championship would draw public attention to it, but the latter stages have to be played at the same time as the latter stages of the All Ireland when the number of the top competition's matches have thinned out."
But there is a tiered structure in place and in my opinion its a fantastic one. Its the league.
Each team plays teams of there slandered providing each team with 7 great games.
Then they get their chance to play the big boys in the championship a chance to build up
to making a big upset by beating a contender . A chance to go on a mad run beating teams
they dont usually beat. or maybe they will be beat on their first game . But thats the luck of the draw.
I prefer if we would look to put more emphasis on our league because its a fantastic set up.
Putting a second tier championship in will benefit very little teams in the long run in my opinion.

farneygael (Monaghan) - Posts: 300 - 01/08/2019 17:49:54    2219534

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Every county could benefit from a tiered championship done properly.

There'd be promotion and relegation, teams in the second championship would have something meaningful to aspire to, competing in the top competition.

I think the latter stages of a tiered championship would draw public attention to it, but the latter stages have to be played at the same time as the latter stages of the All Ireland when the number of the top competition's matches have thinned out."
I'd agree if run properly it could be a great competition. We might see some effort the first year but I do fear it will get the same coverage/attention as the Joe McDonagh, Christy Ring Cups etc from year two! I think counties should be very careful about these proposals and ensure guarantees will be honoured because I'm not convinced money people have any interest in weaker counties - to me it's all about money and making room for big plans down the road when they have pushed 12 - 16 counties off the table.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 01/08/2019 18:37:53    2219538

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The Super 8's were always about making money, nothing else, which is what those leading the Association seem to be all about these days.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 01/08/2019 19:36:40    2219547

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "If there's no plans put in place to improve the standards of tier two counties their standards will regress if they've no chance of playing counties of a decent standard. The attraction of 'Having something to aspire to' will only go so far when players can see the widening gulf in class and people staying away from poor standard games. Eventually some weaker county players will go and work in Tier One counties or use their skills to play other sports. The GAA aren't setting up a tiered championship for anyone's benefit but their own. Milking the media benefits from the elite counties. Ultimately though it's up to players and coaches from so-called weaker counties what they will do."
Couldn't agree more. I think the number of promotion places is key to finding that balance. If it's 3 up 3 down there's good movement between tiers, any less and I think players could become disillusioned with their chances of playing top tier.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4518 - 01/08/2019 20:01:58    2219554

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Replying To farneygael:  "But there is a tiered structure in place and in my opinion its a fantastic one. Its the league.
Each team plays teams of there slandered providing each team with 7 great games.
Then they get their chance to play the big boys in the championship a chance to build up
to making a big upset by beating a contender . A chance to go on a mad run beating teams
they dont usually beat. or maybe they will be beat on their first game . But thats the luck of the draw.
I prefer if we would look to put more emphasis on our league because its a fantastic set up.
Putting a second tier championship in will benefit very little teams in the long run in my opinion."
I agree with this hugely.

A way I'd improve the game in football is to create a regular season that combines league and Provincial championships.

The All Ireland series would have 3 rounds before the qt.

Round 1 of 16 teams, 16 lowest ranked teams from the league not making their Provincial final.

In effect that would be division 3 and 4 teams with those teams that reach Provincial finals (Cork this year would be replaced by Clare) playing round 1.

Round 2 would see round 1 winners play against the 8th lowest ranked non Provincial champions. It's the division 2 teams minus Clare plus Cork, minus Roscommon plus Meath.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4518 - 01/08/2019 20:08:10    2219556

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Killarney, Dr Hyde Park and Ballybofey were a great opening for the Super 8s.

Cork v Tyrone, Meath v Mayo and Donegal v Kerry were good for the Super 8s.

The neutral round in Croke and Dublin's double home advantage are damaging the GAA brand. Former Dublin players admit the advantage of home advantage. The dogs on the street know it. There's all that provincial funding then as well.

As a former Dublin player admitted, any split cannot come about until it's shown that the current situation isn't just a cyclical phase.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8772 - 01/08/2019 20:48:54    2219567

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Killarney, Dr Hyde Park and Ballybofey were a great opening for the Super 8s.

Cork v Tyrone, Meath v Mayo and Donegal v Kerry were good for the Super 8s.

The neutral round in Croke and Dublin's double home advantage are damaging the GAA brand. Former Dublin players admit the advantage of home advantage. The dogs on the street know it. There's all that provincial funding then as well.

As a former Dublin player admitted, any split cannot come about until it's shown that the current situation isn't just a cyclical phase."
Any split cannot come about until everything about the current county structure is put on the table for consideration. That means possible amalgamations and realignments of the current set up. Inter county as we know it could be radically overhauled.

CornAghais91 (Dublin) - Posts: 126 - 01/08/2019 22:25:09    2219594

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Replying To CornAghais91:  "Any split cannot come about until everything about the current county structure is put on the table for consideration. That means possible amalgamations and realignments of the current set up. Inter county as we know it could be radically overhauled."
I agree that amalgamations might be required as well:

MUNSTER:
Cork
North Munster (Limerick & Clare)
East Munster (Tipperary & Waterford)
Kerry

CONNAUGHT:
Galway
Mayo
North Connaught (Roscommon, Sligo & Leitrim)
London

ULSTER:
North Ulster (Derry & Antrim)
East Ulster (Down & Armagh)
South Ulster (Cavan, Monaghan & Fermanagh)
West Ulster (Donegal & Tyrone)

LEINSTER:
North Dublin
South Dublin
North Leinster (Meath, Westmeath, Longford & Louth)
South Leinster (Kildare, Laois, Wicklow, Carlow, Wexford & Kilkenny)

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8772 - 02/08/2019 08:21:57    2219639

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Killarney, Dr Hyde Park and Ballybofey were a great opening for the Super 8s.

Cork v Tyrone, Meath v Mayo and Donegal v Kerry were good for the Super 8s.

The neutral round in Croke and Dublin's double home advantage are damaging the GAA brand. Former Dublin players admit the advantage of home advantage. The dogs on the street know it. There's all that provincial funding then as well.

As a former Dublin player admitted, any split cannot come about until it's shown that the current situation isn't just a cyclical phase."
Are you referring to Alan Brogan's views here? I think he said if Dublin were to win 7/8 of the next All-Irelands then there might be a case for considering splitting Dublin. Then normal service could be continued and Kerry would go on and bag 4/5 All-Irelands each decade. That's what everybody wants isn't it?

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1990 - 02/08/2019 09:36:27    2219652

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I agree that amalgamations might be required as well:

MUNSTER:
Cork
North Munster (Limerick & Clare)
East Munster (Tipperary & Waterford)
Kerry

CONNAUGHT:
Galway
Mayo
North Connaught (Roscommon, Sligo & Leitrim)
London

ULSTER:
North Ulster (Derry & Antrim)
East Ulster (Down & Armagh)
South Ulster (Cavan, Monaghan & Fermanagh)
West Ulster (Donegal & Tyrone)

LEINSTER:
North Dublin
South Dublin
North Leinster (Meath, Westmeath, Longford & Louth)
South Leinster (Kildare, Laois, Wicklow, Carlow, Wexford & Kilkenny)"
That's just lazy trolling

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 02/08/2019 09:44:41    2219655

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I agree that amalgamations might be required as well:

MUNSTER:
Cork
North Munster (Limerick & Clare)
East Munster (Tipperary & Waterford)
Kerry

CONNAUGHT:
Galway
Mayo
North Connaught (Roscommon, Sligo & Leitrim)
London

ULSTER:
North Ulster (Derry & Antrim)
East Ulster (Down & Armagh)
South Ulster (Cavan, Monaghan & Fermanagh)
West Ulster (Donegal & Tyrone)

LEINSTER:
North Dublin
South Dublin
North Leinster (Meath, Westmeath, Longford & Louth)
South Leinster (Kildare, Laois, Wicklow, Carlow, Wexford & Kilkenny)"
Surely with 81 provincial titles and Munster being a hurling region Kerry would have to be split into East and West Kerry? The remaining teams are just amalgamated hurling counties.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4742 - 02/08/2019 09:50:26    2219657

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I agree that amalgamations might be required as well:

MUNSTER:
Cork
North Munster (Limerick & Clare)
East Munster (Tipperary & Waterford)
Kerry

CONNAUGHT:
Galway
Mayo
North Connaught (Roscommon, Sligo & Leitrim)
London

ULSTER:
North Ulster (Derry & Antrim)
East Ulster (Down & Armagh)
South Ulster (Cavan, Monaghan & Fermanagh)
West Ulster (Donegal & Tyrone)

LEINSTER:
North Dublin
South Dublin
North Leinster (Meath, Westmeath, Longford & Louth)
South Leinster (Kildare, Laois, Wicklow, Carlow, Wexford & Kilkenny)"
To think someone actually sat down and typed that all out. The mind boggles.

OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 248 - 02/08/2019 09:53:57    2219659

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Replying To OGarmaile:  "To think someone actually sat down and typed that all out. The mind boggles."
A Leitrim newspaper was seeking fairness. This is an option. Discuss or move on and enjoy the long weekend.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8772 - 02/08/2019 10:31:36    2219677

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Replying To Paddy1967:  "If it wasn't for sky, most counties wouldn't see games, as rte has always put Dublin and Kerry's as top priority."
That's a fairly sweeping statement and may or may not hold water. From a quick look, RTE have featured 15 counties in their coverage so far, which is approximately half so not exactly "most counties". Also, Dublin have, to date, played 10 championship games this year with just one (Leinster Football Final) being shown on RTE which, again, doesn't appear to show them as "top priority". (For balance, they've also been shown four times on Sky).

From a personal perspective, this doesn't bother me hugely as I go to nearly all the games so it doesn't matter for me whether they're being shown by RTE or not. From a broadcast point of view (RTE in this case, but also Sky and, to a lesser extent, TG4), you'd imagine they'd tend to try and show the games that would maximise the tv audience both from the point of being a public broadcaster who would try and reach the highest audience and from a commercial perspective, where advertising revenue is a significant consideration. Is this ideal? You could argue not as the public broadcaster remit should extend to all demographics, with individual counties being one such line. However, RTE committed to showing 31 games at the offset and there are 97 games in the Championship (not counting Joe McDonagh etc.) so, given that they are guaranteed to show the semis and finals of both competitions, it is impossible to feature every county. Someone has to lose out even if they tried to commit to showing every county at least once.

I'm not a huge fan of RTE but I really don't see how they can be chastised in this regard. Maybe you have a more equitable solution?

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 02/08/2019 11:59:39    2219713

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This weekend I will go with wins for Donegal, Kerry, Cork and Dublin.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 02/08/2019 17:38:38    2219840

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