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I know it's a broken record but just please read and see what you think
To fix inter county football
Leave leagues the way they are
Championships:
3 tiers of 12 teams. Make Kilkenny play, and/or get 2/3 more teams from UK/Europe/America so you've 36. I'm sure Liverpool or Manchester, Edinburgh, Boston have clubs, pick a squad from their best.
4 groups of 3 in each tier. Each team in group plays each other, top 2 into quarters and bottom team in group into relegation play offs, 2 semi and final. Play the tier 1 games on weekends alternate to the tier 2/3 games so there not forgotten.
Promoted to next tier if you win your grade.
Call tier 2/3 after past legends (Paudie Ose, Kevin Heffernan) even Jim Gavin, he is the cause of it
5 games to win your championship, Kerry/ Galway have won Sam in past with less games.
Have festival of football weekend bank holiday in August. Tier 2/3 finals on Saturday( double header in croker) and tier 1 on Sunday. Plenty of time for club to be completed and everyone enjoys Christmas.
If your worried about attendances in tier 2/3, each team gets a home and away, tier 1 all neutral venues.
Play provincials as the pre season to keep your local rivalries/tradition or whatever ya call it.
Sunday game must also change to match if the day style format
Potential for promotion of games abroad also.
Feel free to pick the holes in this or pass it on if you think it's a good idea.
It's on the back of the weekend where you had tier 1 teams (Meath Dublin Tyrone ) destroy tier 2/3 teams and tier 1 mayo vRoscommon, tier 2 teams Kildare v Longford and Laois Westmeath produce good games.
Fairplayer (Louth) - Posts: 10 - 26/05/2019 23:33:58
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coming from our county pov, I think this would make a great championship. Great excitement round the draws, what a finals weekend their would be. More games for everyone, and they've a realistic chance. All round winner, wont be implemented as its too obvious
Frederick (Louth) - Posts: 479 - 27/05/2019 12:35:15
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Replying To Fairplayer: "I know it's a broken record but just please read and see what you think
To fix inter county football
Leave leagues the way they are
Championships:
3 tiers of 12 teams. Make Kilkenny play, and/or get 2/3 more teams from UK/Europe/America so you've 36. I'm sure Liverpool or Manchester, Edinburgh, Boston have clubs, pick a squad from their best.
4 groups of 3 in each tier. Each team in group plays each other, top 2 into quarters and bottom team in group into relegation play offs, 2 semi and final. Play the tier 1 games on weekends alternate to the tier 2/3 games so there not forgotten.
Promoted to next tier if you win your grade.
Call tier 2/3 after past legends (Paudie Ose, Kevin Heffernan) even Jim Gavin, he is the cause of it
5 games to win your championship, Kerry/ Galway have won Sam in past with less games.
Have festival of football weekend bank holiday in August. Tier 2/3 finals on Saturday( double header in croker) and tier 1 on Sunday. Plenty of time for club to be completed and everyone enjoys Christmas.
If your worried about attendances in tier 2/3, each team gets a home and away, tier 1 all neutral venues.
Play provincials as the pre season to keep your local rivalries/tradition or whatever ya call it.
Sunday game must also change to match if the day style format
Potential for promotion of games abroad also.
Feel free to pick the holes in this or pass it on if you think it's a good idea.
It's on the back of the weekend where you had tier 1 teams (Meath Dublin Tyrone ) destroy tier 2/3 teams and tier 1 mayo vRoscommon, tier 2 teams Kildare v Longford and Laois Westmeath produce good games." I think it'd be a very good competition.
Tweaks here or there could work.
I personally don't like 3 team groups but I like the idea of the 12, 12 and 8 team tiers.
Something along the lines of the following could work.
12 teams 3 groups of 4, top 2 from each group into quarterfinals with best 2 group winners receiving byes.
Tier 3 top 2 in each group to quarterfinals.
Qualification for the tiers could be based on league and Provincial championship performance.
Previous season's tier 1 and tier 2 champions qualify.
Current season's Provincial champions qualify.
6 others based on league rankings then qualify.
For tier 2 qualification.
Previous season's tier 3 champions
Current season's division 4 champion
10 others based on league performance.
Final 8 places to lowest rated 8 teams from the league.
I think it'd be a good competition.
I think the league and Provincial championships should be played in parallel from March to June. July and August are then for the All Ireland series.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4211 - 27/05/2019 14:03:34
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Championships:
3 tiers of 12 teams. Make Kilkenny play...
Fairplayer (Louth) - Posts: 2 - 26/05/2019 23:33:58 218789
Make Kilkenny play? Do you think it's right to force a person to do something (play football) when they don't want to? We're talking about an amateur sport. How do you propose to make people do something they don't want to?
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2448 - 27/05/2019 14:27:18
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Ulster Championship
Round robin format
Top 2 Group A progress to Ulster final
Bottom of group A relegated
Top of group B promoted and progress to playoffs
Group A
Armagh
Tyrone
Monaghan
Donegal
Cavan
Group B
Down
Derry
Antrim
Fermanagh
Leinster Championship
Group A
Dublin
Meath
Kildare
Laois
Westmeath
Longford
Group B
Carlow
Louth
Wexford
Offaly
Wicklow
Round Robin format
Top 2 Group A progress to Leinster final
Bottom of group A relegated
Top of group B promoted and progress to playoffs
Connacht and Munster Championship
Open draw from group B for playoff with New York for entry into group B
Group A
Galway
Kerry
Mayo
Roscommon
Cork
Clare
Group B
Leitrim
Waterford
Sligo
London
Tipp
Round robin format
Top 2 of group A progress to final
Top of group B promoted and progress to playoffs
Bottom of group A relegated
All Ireland Playoffs (B)
1st group B Ulster Vs 1st Group B Leinster
1st group B Connacht/Munster vs Highest ranking national league team div 3/4 out of competition
(B) finalist vs highest ranked div 1/2 team out of competition for place in quarter final
Ulster provincial winner Vs Leinster beaten provincial finalist
Leinster provincial winner vs Ulster beaten finalist
Connacht/Munster winner vs (B) finalist/league team
(B) playoff winner vs Connacht/Munster finalist
armagh2k2 (Armagh) - Posts: 14 - 27/05/2019 15:00:20
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Replying To armagh2k2: "Ulster Championship
Round robin format
Top 2 Group A progress to Ulster final
Bottom of group A relegated
Top of group B promoted and progress to playoffs
Group A
Armagh
Tyrone
Monaghan
Donegal
Cavan
Group B
Down
Derry
Antrim
Fermanagh
Leinster Championship
Group A
Dublin
Meath
Kildare
Laois
Westmeath
Longford
Group B
Carlow
Louth
Wexford
Offaly
Wicklow
Round Robin format
Top 2 Group A progress to Leinster final
Bottom of group A relegated
Top of group B promoted and progress to playoffs
Connacht and Munster Championship
Open draw from group B for playoff with New York for entry into group B
Group A
Galway
Kerry
Mayo
Roscommon
Cork
Clare
Group B
Leitrim
Waterford
Sligo
London
Tipp
Round robin format
Top 2 of group A progress to final
Top of group B promoted and progress to playoffs
Bottom of group A relegated
All Ireland Playoffs (B)
1st group B Ulster Vs 1st Group B Leinster
1st group B Connacht/Munster vs Highest ranking national league team div 3/4 out of competition
(B) finalist vs highest ranked div 1/2 team out of competition for place in quarter final
Ulster provincial winner Vs Leinster beaten provincial finalist
Leinster provincial winner vs Ulster beaten finalist
Connacht/Munster winner vs (B) finalist/league team
(B) playoff winner vs Connacht/Munster finalist" I think there's going to be a lot of rubbish games in that format.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4211 - 27/05/2019 16:36:16
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Replying To Whammo86: "I think it'd be a very good competition.
Tweaks here or there could work.
I personally don't like 3 team groups but I like the idea of the 12, 12 and 8 team tiers.
Something along the lines of the following could work.
12 teams 3 groups of 4, top 2 from each group into quarterfinals with best 2 group winners receiving byes.
Tier 3 top 2 in each group to quarterfinals.
Qualification for the tiers could be based on league and Provincial championship performance.
Previous season's tier 1 and tier 2 champions qualify.
Current season's Provincial champions qualify.
6 others based on league rankings then qualify.
For tier 2 qualification.
Previous season's tier 3 champions
Current season's division 4 champion
10 others based on league performance.
Final 8 places to lowest rated 8 teams from the league.
I think it'd be a good competition.
I think the league and Provincial championships should be played in parallel from March to June. July and August are then for the All Ireland series." Your complicating it. 3 team groups work perfect. Team 1 and team 2 play and winners play team 3, then remaining two play. It means all games will have a meaning, and if team 1 beats 2 and 3, the game between team 2 and 3 is a knock out already. Also means give to lose 4 to relegated which Means you deserve it.
Fairplayer (Louth) - Posts: 10 - 27/05/2019 16:41:53
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Championships:
3 tiers of 12 teams. Make Kilkenny play...
Fairplayer (Louth) - Posts: 2 - 26/05/2019 23:33:58 218789
Make Kilkenny play? Do you think it's right to force a person to do something (play football) when they don't want to? We're talking about an amateur sport. How do you propose to make people do something they don't want to?" Taking my comments out of context. If they dint want to play I'm sure we can get 2/3 teams form areas I've suggested. This would help promote the game abroad also.
Fairplayer (Louth) - Posts: 10 - 27/05/2019 16:43:07
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Replying To armagh2k2: "Ulster Championship
Round robin format
Top 2 Group A progress to Ulster final
Bottom of group A relegated
Top of group B promoted and progress to playoffs
Group A
Armagh
Tyrone
Monaghan
Donegal
Cavan
Group B
Down
Derry
Antrim
Fermanagh
Leinster Championship
Group A
Dublin
Meath
Kildare
Laois
Westmeath
Longford
Group B
Carlow
Louth
Wexford
Offaly
Wicklow
Round Robin format
Top 2 Group A progress to Leinster final
Bottom of group A relegated
Top of group B promoted and progress to playoffs
Connacht and Munster Championship
Open draw from group B for playoff with New York for entry into group B
Group A
Galway
Kerry
Mayo
Roscommon
Cork
Clare
Group B
Leitrim
Waterford
Sligo
London
Tipp
Round robin format
Top 2 of group A progress to final
Top of group B promoted and progress to playoffs
Bottom of group A relegated
All Ireland Playoffs (B)
1st group B Ulster Vs 1st Group B Leinster
1st group B Connacht/Munster vs Highest ranking national league team div 3/4 out of competition
(B) finalist vs highest ranked div 1/2 team out of competition for place in quarter final
Ulster provincial winner Vs Leinster beaten provincial finalist
Leinster provincial winner vs Ulster beaten finalist
Connacht/Munster winner vs (B) finalist/league team
(B) playoff winner vs Connacht/Munster finalist" The provincials are dead. This simply won't work. Dublin still walk Leinster, Kerry Munster. A tier 3 team simply shouldn't be in same competition as a tier 1.
Fairplayer (Louth) - Posts: 10 - 27/05/2019 16:44:57
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Replying To Whammo86: "I think there's going to be a lot of rubbish games in that format." Surely gives a chance to teams competing at a similar level while giving them a chance to progress to the latter stages of championship
armagh2k2 (Armagh) - Posts: 14 - 27/05/2019 16:53:28
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Replying To Fairplayer: "Your complicating it. 3 team groups work perfect. Team 1 and team 2 play and winners play team 3, then remaining two play. It means all games will have a meaning, and if team 1 beats 2 and 3, the game between team 2 and 3 is a knock out already. Also means give to lose 4 to relegated which Means you deserve it." Yeah fair enough.
I've a personal dislike for competitions with an odd number of teams in each group. If it takes 3 weekends to runoff a group competition, everyone might as well play every weekend where possible.
I do like your proposal though. It could definitely work. It works for the Louth championship well.
I do think that there should be a place for Provincial champions in a top tier.
There also does seem to appetite to link the league to championship.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4211 - 27/05/2019 18:41:15
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To be fair I can't remember a provincial champion not being top tier(div 1 or top 4 div 2). Yea I think it seems simple enough too but sure who knows what they will come up with at croke park.
Thanks for your reply
Fairplayer (Louth) - Posts: 10 - 27/05/2019 21:40:20
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Replying To Fairplayer: "To be fair I can't remember a provincial champion not being top tier(div 1 or top 4 div 2). Yea I think it seems simple enough too but sure who knows what they will come up with at croke park.
Thanks for your reply" Monaghan 2013, Sligo 2007, Armagh All Ireland champions from the old division 2 in 2002.
It doesn't happen often but it does happen.
Yours could definitely work. I would prefer the Association to go a different route to yours though and to have a league based championship in the summer, rather than it being tournament style.
Provincials in March to mid April
12 team Championship 1 in a single round robin with top 4 to semifinals. May-August for league games.
12 teams made up of 4 Provincial champions, Previous season's championship finalists and 6 other best ranked from the Previous season's championship 1.
Championship 2 of 10 teams, championship 3 of 10 teams.
Pretty much move the league to summer but with a slight tweak to accommodate Provincial champions to keep them linked to the All Ireland series.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4211 - 28/05/2019 05:30:15
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The solution to the new Championship format could be fairly simple and has been mentioned before. Using this system it could also make the leagues structure even more competitive.
Using the finishing league positions of each team
Top seeds are 6 teams that stay in Division 1 plus 2 promoted
Second seeds are the 2 relegated from Div 1, 4 that stay in Div 2 plus 2 that get promoted from 3
Seed 3 would be 2 relegated from Div 2, 4 that stay in Div 3 plus 2 that get promoted form Div 4.
FInally 4th Seeds are the 2 teams relegated from Div 3 plus the 6 that remain in Div 4.
8 groups drawn with 4 teams. Each group has a Top seed, 2nd Seed, 3rd Seed and 4th seed. Each team plays each other once therefore everyone gets a crack at the All Ireland. Top 2 in each group goes to play for All Ireland. Bottom 2 in each group plays for second tier competition.
Play each series side by side as double headers etc.
farneyman1 (Monaghan) - Posts: 52 - 28/05/2019 10:49:13
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Replying To farneyman1: "The solution to the new Championship format could be fairly simple and has been mentioned before. Using this system it could also make the leagues structure even more competitive.
Using the finishing league positions of each team
Top seeds are 6 teams that stay in Division 1 plus 2 promoted
Second seeds are the 2 relegated from Div 1, 4 that stay in Div 2 plus 2 that get promoted from 3
Seed 3 would be 2 relegated from Div 2, 4 that stay in Div 3 plus 2 that get promoted form Div 4.
FInally 4th Seeds are the 2 teams relegated from Div 3 plus the 6 that remain in Div 4.
8 groups drawn with 4 teams. Each group has a Top seed, 2nd Seed, 3rd Seed and 4th seed. Each team plays each other once therefore everyone gets a crack at the All Ireland. Top 2 in each group goes to play for All Ireland. Bottom 2 in each group plays for second tier competition.
Play each series side by side as double headers etc." That's more or less exactly the system I would like to see in the championship, it guarantees everybody at least 4 games and it keeps everybody in the main championship. Also it presents the opportunity for a master fixture list (there should be no replays), which would be helpful for club championships.
I think the winners of the B championship should be guaranteed top seed the following year aswell regardless of League position, which should help incentivise the competition.
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 28/05/2019 12:51:16
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That's essentially the GPA group idea with seeding based on the following year NFL division composition. I'd rather not have Div 1 v 4 mismatches - to eliminate these and have 'more Div 1 v 1 head to heads' - I'd go with the following -
1) Seed teams 1 to 4 based on the NFL division teams will play in 'next year' (like you have it).
2) Draw a 2nd and 3rd seed to each group, along with a 'PAIR of 1st seeds (groups A1-A4)' and a 'PAIR of 4th seeds (groups B1-B4'.
3) For greater Div 1 v 1 and 4 v 4 pairings, teams play 4 group matches (group A1vA2, A3vA4, B1vB2 and B3vB4.
4) Best 5 of 8 from each paired section (e.g. A1vA2) advance to 20-team AI KO (each top 3 of 8 get byes to the Rd of 16).
5) Other 12 to Tier 2 KO.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2573 - 28/05/2019 12:52:22
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Replying To farneyman1: "The solution to the new Championship format could be fairly simple and has been mentioned before. Using this system it could also make the leagues structure even more competitive.
Using the finishing league positions of each team
Top seeds are 6 teams that stay in Division 1 plus 2 promoted
Second seeds are the 2 relegated from Div 1, 4 that stay in Div 2 plus 2 that get promoted from 3
Seed 3 would be 2 relegated from Div 2, 4 that stay in Div 3 plus 2 that get promoted form Div 4.
FInally 4th Seeds are the 2 teams relegated from Div 3 plus the 6 that remain in Div 4.
8 groups drawn with 4 teams. Each group has a Top seed, 2nd Seed, 3rd Seed and 4th seed. Each team plays each other once therefore everyone gets a crack at the All Ireland. Top 2 in each group goes to play for All Ireland. Bottom 2 in each group plays for second tier competition.
Play each series side by side as double headers etc." It doesn't solve the problem of trying to get more games in between serious challengers.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4211 - 28/05/2019 13:13:11
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Replying To Whammo86: "It doesn't solve the problem of trying to get more games in between serious challengers." Does mine ?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2573 - 28/05/2019 18:25:28
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Replying To omahant: "Does mine ?" You penalise division 1 teams with harder schedules.
I don't love how you come up with formats that have groups where teams don't play each other.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4211 - 28/05/2019 19:03:28
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Replying To Fairplayer: " Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Championships:
3 tiers of 12 teams. Make Kilkenny play...
Fairplayer (Louth) - Posts: 2 - 26/05/2019 23:33:58 218789
Make Kilkenny play? Do you think it's right to force a person to do something (play football) when they don't want to? We're talking about an amateur sport. How do you propose to make people do something they don't want to?" Taking my comments out of context. If they dint want to play I'm sure we can get 2/3 teams form areas I've suggested. This would help promote the game abroad also."
For eg. would Limk/Clare/Tipp/Wford players be eager to sign up for a rest of Munster team if it meant a real shot at Sam or would there be no love for these teams.
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 28/05/2019 20:24:38
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