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Should James Owens be sanctioned?

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lot of GAA bashing about today and in some ways they bring it on themselves been so inconsistent with rules just ask Tadgh De Burca so in many regards they could learn somethings from other sports but i believe we have one of the one great product over 130,000.00 people attended both hurling games in a week they money it generates sell out Dublin V Tyrone will be over 70k there next weekend.
No other sport in Ireland comes close.

I think it is wrong to blame James Owens human nature being what it is he was under huge personal pressure id say and perhaps he chose a soft option as did the hirarchy but reading some comments you would think that its a game for savage.
I think this helmet thing will have to be revisited a lot of former players including DJ Carey says a red card is too severe the mandatory introduction of the Helmet has saves a lot of facial cuts and lost teeth but some players have been known to use interference with it as a means of annoyance and there has been some injuries with ripping off helmets Declan Fanning i think it was from Tipp got a number of stitches from one such incident they will have to revisit this now as the last two major matches has produced two huge controversies

I dont believe that any evidence exists that serious results have arisen from interference but it should merit a yellow card or else look at the rugby and introduce a 10 minute off time .

Will be a super day on all ireland final day real nuentars day

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 987 - 16/08/2017 11:31:00    2034095

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Replying To bloodyban:  "I think he should be given a medal for standing up for what's right and sensible. The rule is rubbish. No one deserves to be automatically sent off for pulling a helmet."
That's a fairly novel approach - give the ref a medal for not applying the rules. If your idea catches on, games could become very interesting.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 16/08/2017 11:41:38    2034106

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Replying To PullHard7:  "I think people are forgetting that James Owens only got to see the incident in real time.
It's easy for us to watch the replay in slow motion and say it was an easy decision. Gleeson pulled the helmet off very quickly whilst getting up and looking the other way. IMO Owens probably saw a certain amount of the incident and because it happened so quickly with Gleeson looking the other way it probably looked accidental at the time.
I think the rule needs to be changed anyway as these incidents aren't black and white. Some interference with helmets can be minimal and others dangerous. Something like this : unintentional interference that's not dangerous = no red or yellow, intentional interference that's not deemed dangerous = yellow card and intentional interference deemed dangerous = red card.
At this time we don't know what the ref saw or didn't see so calling for his suspension is ridiculous"
Real time or slow motion he pulled the helmet off .. are visual and IQ tests required for ref's ???

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 16/08/2017 12:10:28    2034133

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he stopped the investigation even after watching the video,,,,,,,he could have told the truth that he didn't see the incident. He must be punished to be fair to Cork.....a replay would be fair in this case.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1740 - 16/08/2017 12:46:33    2034162

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I would say the ref was under massive pressure to make sure Gleeson played the All Ireland final and I am sure the CCCC did not want to make the big decision.At the end of the day this is giving licence for others players to start the same practise tampering with players helmets.The CCCC should take retrospective action regardless.

ifindoubt (Donegal) - Posts: 133 - 16/08/2017 13:23:49    2034190

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Should Gavin be suspended also for getting Tuohy incident wrong. Definitely a straight red for deliberate contact with the helmet. Pulled off a Tipp players helmet when the ball was in front of Galway player with Maher behind him and Tipp players helmet was 6ft in the air.

It should be a Tipp Cork final if both refs did their job and neither willing to admit they were wrong.

dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts: 1017 - 16/08/2017 13:24:35    2034191

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "he stopped the investigation even after watching the video,,,,,,,he could have told the truth that he didn't see the incident. He must be punished to be fair to Cork.....a replay would be fair in this case."
yes he ignored the truth, replay the game, this is a huge disgrace

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1228 - 16/08/2017 13:40:33    2034200

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We can all agree or disagree if it should be a red card to interfere with a helmet, I wont address that.

However we cant disagree on that it is a red card o interfere with a helmet in the rule book.

My big issue with James Owens is that the pressure he has lumped on all other referees now who follow the rule is massive.

We also missed out on the opportunity to wipe out interference with the helmet if Gleeson did miss the final.

However I did think that would be the case after TDB missed the semi final and Ozzie provided me wrong on that front.

bok1 (Westmeath) - Posts: 11 - 16/08/2017 13:44:19    2034203

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Only 1 person should have been suspended and it was not James Owens nor should it be.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 16/08/2017 14:11:28    2034220

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Replying To dubshurling7:  "Should Gavin be suspended also for getting Tuohy incident wrong. Definitely a straight red for deliberate contact with the helmet. Pulled off a Tipp players helmet when the ball was in front of Galway player with Maher behind him and Tipp players helmet was 6ft in the air.

It should be a Tipp Cork final if both refs did their job and neither willing to admit they were wrong."
I think it was Keenan who missed that. Gavin was a linesman on Sunday and it was either him or McGrath who was on the Hogan Stand side when Aussie interfered with the helmet.

Trust I would love to see Tipp in a final against Waterford or Cork but the best two teams are in the final.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 16/08/2017 14:16:11    2034228

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "Red card if somebody gets injured!! What are you smoking? When thinking of how to protect players, you don't wait for a player to be paralysed with a neck injury. Your argument is pathetic. If they change that rule now, the first child or adult to receive a serious injury would have every right to sue.

Break the rules repeatedly, let's change the rule. Are Waterford actually spending time on the training field targeting helmets, because they have done this three times. Everybody knows the rules and a man who must have rocks in his head considering the prior incidents breaks the same rule, so the rule is stupid? Cop yourself on.

The cccc have just proved what we all know for a long time. The GAA will continue to be deemed Mickey Mouse to other sports if they decide to implement rules to suit themselves."
You think Waterford practice helmet interference ? Do you think Cork practice kicking and hitting players after they score ? Barron and Moran in the testicles. It is convenient to say if Gleeson was sent off Cork would be in the All-Ireland. Hold on though a second and back up a little bit. If the player who deliberately hit Moran who was injured, was dismissed ? Gleeson did a stupid thing and got away with it but no one was injured. However been selective who should be sent off is just sour grapes when your team lose. Personally I hate seeing any player from any team sent off but unfortunately it has to happen.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3062 - 16/08/2017 14:39:39    2034245

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Replying To moc.dna:  "There are two points here, 1/ if Galway did win & the two Gleesons were banned after all the media coverage, the win would be tainted, no body wants that, win it fair & square 2/ the banning of players in All Ireland finals is not a nice thing but in other sports it's accepted but in Gaa it's overturned & makes a mockery of the rules. In fairness Tuohy should also have been banned & in my opinion De Burca was harshly treated, it's the fact that there is so much inconsistency, not whether it's about W'ford or Galway & I have been consistent on that on this forum. This mess could have been avoided if Owens & the linesmen implemented the rules. Most people at this stage with Austin cleared would rather see Conor's card rescinded, the rules are already a mess at this point so why deny the lad his place in the final. It might force the Gaa to get off their ar#e & start to get their act together as this sideshow is detracting from the games & players, managers & fans deserve better. Without rules & consistent application of rules debacles such as this will run & run right down to club level & that is my problem with it."
That is a very honest retort and totally agree with all the assessment. I would have no pity on AG if he had been suspended but do for CG. However Austin could not be suspended because of how the previous cases were handled. The rule is wrong and the CCCC is a mess. Everything they touched is influenced by the "noise" around it at the time. No lover of Dublin or Connolly that was ridiculous. Suspended for something the the victim never felt?

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3062 - 16/08/2017 14:49:52    2034250

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Replying To Barnowl94:  "Can't believe this situation.
Gleeson should have been sent off, there is no doubting that.
How would the game have gone if the ref did his job properly? I think it's reasonable to say it may well have been Cork who were celebrating last Sunday and not Waterford."
Cork would be down to 14 men for the strike in the testicles to Moran. Shortly after Waterford would be down to 14 men for the blatant helmet pull. Cork would be at 13 after Cahalane incident. Cork would be at 12 after Barron got kicked. Cork would be at 11 when Horgan buried the hurley in Conor Glesson. Waterford would be at 13 for the retaliation. Is that what you want ? Or just be selective as to what incidents are punished ?

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3062 - 16/08/2017 14:58:37    2034253

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Hang him - sorry, I meant suspend him, definitely.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 16/08/2017 15:32:31    2034285

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i blame the sons of harpy

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 16/08/2017 15:35:28    2034286

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Replying To Canuck:  "Cork would be down to 14 men for the strike in the testicles to Moran. Shortly after Waterford would be down to 14 men for the blatant helmet pull. Cork would be at 13 after Cahalane incident. Cork would be at 12 after Barron got kicked. Cork would be at 11 when Horgan buried the hurley in Conor Glesson. Waterford would be at 13 for the retaliation. Is that what you want ? Or just be selective as to what incidents are punished ?"
Canuck SERIOUSLY. Listen im from cork . Ill lay out the facts based on years of watching hurling rather than this complete BS

Waterford would have won. 15 V 15 WATERFORD WOULD HAVE WON. My guess is by a point maybe two. Fact.. Six week lay off could be clearly be seen in corks first half performance. When cahalane got sent of cork had gone from 1 down to one ahead and looked to be opening up and hurling better. But Waterford would still have won. Their experience at this stage versus corks lack of croke park experience would mean in my opinion waterford would have ground it out in last 10 mins. But we will never know.

Cork have no bitterness towards waterford. Our bitterness is to the inconsistency.

Now no bs spade a spade. If your full back was sent off for what cahalane did you would be below in the pub on sunday giving out about the ref. The first yellow was extremely soft if warranted at all. Second 100% yellow but then when a waterford player completed the round the neck challenge in first half no booking.

Now your next reds
Strike on moran.... Not even a yellow. Accidental contact at best. Felt for the lad but not next to even a yellow.
Kick on Barron... Honestly neither at the game or watching game on tv or sunday game did i see it so cant comment.. But wasnt spoken about during live tv or SG so im thinking its a nothing issue. If someone kicked someone and it warranted a red someone would have spoke about it .
Hogan didnt bury hurley it was kingston. Was at the end of the match match was over Yellow each move on and i hope conor can play in september cause it was nothing and all cork lads iv spoken to say the same.

But now how about the truth. Gleeson (who is clear to play and iv limited issue with that) should have got red. Only people who say he shouldnt are waterford people. It was a simple clear cut no strings attached completely unnecessary ripping off of an opponents helmet. Its simple clear cut there isnt even an argument. And the reality is if waterford were down to 14 men as they should be they couldnt have continued with the sweeper and space would open up for the cork forwards and they would have won. Thats the complete nub of the issue.

I dont mind waterford being happy Gleeson can play. I dont mind gleeson playing. You have 4 cork people sent off in what was a clean game. I havent seen 4 sent off in matches with brawls in them so your point there was mute.

Be happy your in the final but by god be real to yer selves. Ye are 1/2 points better than a new cork team.

Ye have a HUGE challenge in september. Ye need everyone which is why im hoping conor is free and ye need to be at 100% and galway at 80%.. The are the facts and ye need to open yer eyes up o them

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 16/08/2017 15:36:33    2034289

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Gleeson had a case to answer he should have been banned the pure stupidity of his action considering de burca ban. Now Waterford going to appeal the other gleesons ban when it was a red all day long. I hope Galway win now. Owens could be in trouble next year he will struggle to get the big games next year.

jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 944 - 16/08/2017 16:19:38    2034313

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Good man Richie, lets just throw the rule book out the window and play by your rules!!!!!!

Torcaill (Australia) - Posts: 204 - 16/08/2017 16:30:54    2034316

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Replying To ritchie:  "Canuck SERIOUSLY. Listen im from cork . Ill lay out the facts based on years of watching hurling rather than this complete BS

Waterford would have won. 15 V 15 WATERFORD WOULD HAVE WON. My guess is by a point maybe two. Fact.. Six week lay off could be clearly be seen in corks first half performance. When cahalane got sent of cork had gone from 1 down to one ahead and looked to be opening up and hurling better. But Waterford would still have won. Their experience at this stage versus corks lack of croke park experience would mean in my opinion waterford would have ground it out in last 10 mins. But we will never know.

Cork have no bitterness towards waterford. Our bitterness is to the inconsistency.

Now no bs spade a spade. If your full back was sent off for what cahalane did you would be below in the pub on sunday giving out about the ref. The first yellow was extremely soft if warranted at all. Second 100% yellow but then when a waterford player completed the round the neck challenge in first half no booking.

Now your next reds
Strike on moran.... Not even a yellow. Accidental contact at best. Felt for the lad but not next to even a yellow.
Kick on Barron... Honestly neither at the game or watching game on tv or sunday game did i see it so cant comment.. But wasnt spoken about during live tv or SG so im thinking its a nothing issue. If someone kicked someone and it warranted a red someone would have spoke about it .
Hogan didnt bury hurley it was kingston. Was at the end of the match match was over Yellow each move on and i hope conor can play in september cause it was nothing and all cork lads iv spoken to say the same.

But now how about the truth. Gleeson (who is clear to play and iv limited issue with that) should have got red. Only people who say he shouldnt are waterford people. It was a simple clear cut no strings attached completely unnecessary ripping off of an opponents helmet. Its simple clear cut there isnt even an argument. And the reality is if waterford were down to 14 men as they should be they couldnt have continued with the sweeper and space would open up for the cork forwards and they would have won. Thats the complete nub of the issue.

I dont mind waterford being happy Gleeson can play. I dont mind gleeson playing. You have 4 cork people sent off in what was a clean game. I havent seen 4 sent off in matches with brawls in them so your point there was mute.

Be happy your in the final but by god be real to yer selves. Ye are 1/2 points better than a new cork team.

Ye have a HUGE challenge in september. Ye need everyone which is why im hoping conor is free and ye need to be at 100% and galway at 80%.. The are the facts and ye need to open yer eyes up o them"
These are alternative facts seen through your eyes and you are entitled to you opinion. Cahalane's second offence alone merited sending off. People on here like to talk about blatant. If you want to apply severity to neck challenges this was at the top. You conveniently did not see Barron getting kicked and you are judging Moran's hit as an accident. Both after scoring. A pattern may be? I take no pleasure in seeing any player sent off but would not feel sorry for AG if he had. Cork supporters are among the best if not the best. However when posters are claiming that Cork would be in the All-Ireland if Gleeson was sent off while ignoring the fact that on another day the NON accidental hit on Moran would be a red card.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3062 - 16/08/2017 16:58:46    2034330

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The CCCC claim that they are very upset with Owens but I don't believe it - I bet they are mightily relieved that he let them off the hook. He was placed in a horrible position. He knew that if he admitted that he did not see the incident or that he was not satisfied with how he handled it, then Gleeson would miss out on the all-Ireland final and that is an unfair burden to place on a ref. It is absolutely ridiculous that the ref gets to decide whether or not he was "happy with his performance". It should be entirely up to the committee to adjudicate on video evidence.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 1034 - 16/08/2017 17:12:20    2034341

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