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Should James Owens be sanctioned?

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OK, I started the topic knowing it would cause a bit of a stir. If I'm honest it looks like maybe a form of words for the refs report may have been suggested that suited all. Especially the way the news leaked today. CCCC are getting it from all sides but I'd say the dirty work was done before it got to them. They should resign on mass in protest.

The consequences of this is that some unaccountable people in Croke Park decide who gets suspended or not, not based on rule book but on their whim.

Personally couldn't care less if Gleeson plays or not. He knew consequences when he did it, but if he plays good luck to him. But the consequences for the disciplinary system in the gaa are far reaching. You reap what u sow.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1922 - 15/08/2017 22:42:23    2033935

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Replying To Mayonman:  "James Owens says he saw the Austin Gleeson incident. That implies he decided to ignore the rules of the game. I'd say Cork fans are particularly annoyed.

Should a referee face consequences for ignoring rules???

In my opinion yes. That is their sole function. Any ref can make a mistake bit to admit he saw it but did nothing??

Where does this end??"
I would never like to see James Owens referee another game. He either doesn't know the rules or doesn't have any regard for them. Player safety has to be a priority. I think the decision has been made it's time to close this chapter and move on to looking forward to the final.

lowandhard (Galway) - Posts: 33 - 15/08/2017 22:51:22    2033939

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Replying To Canuck:  "Every time a player pulls on the ball around other players heads or legs constitutes a danger. What about the shot in the testicles to Moran who was actually injured rather than speculation to what could have happened to the Cork player ? Your famous Tommy was the expert on helmet interference as he perfected it."
Pure waffle the only man that blamed Tommy for interference with a helmet was loughnane and that was 2009 final were benny dunne got the line even in slow motion nobody else could see interference .

northerncat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 30 - 15/08/2017 23:00:47    2033943

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Can't believe this situation.
Gleeson should have been sent off, there is no doubting that.
How would the game have gone if the ref did his job properly? I think it's reasonable to say it may well have been Cork who were celebrating last Sunday and not Waterford.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 15/08/2017 23:04:04    2033945

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Replying To Canuck:  "Bad rule to begin with. Sets everyone up for a dirty kicking because there is no provision for severity of the foul. Simple a yellow card. However if the player is seriously injured and can not continue a red (that is automatic one game). If you really want to punish no return until the injured player is declared fit.

Gleeson's mule head behaviour as bad as it looked was not worse than other incidents in the game. No one injured like Kevin Moran. The belt in the testicles to Moran, the kicking of Barron and the hurley into Conor Gleeson's kidneys the reason for his tap on the legs to Horgan. However these have no sensational results for the pundits and t.v. replays.

Pundits need to adjust their behaviour because they are becoming annoying. It is fine to state why a player is getting sent off but refrain from adjudicating. These pundit were big names in the game with county bias and it is a lie to say that they have not influenced a hearing.

If Tadgh who never pulls a mean stroke was from Clare he should be very upset to how he was treated for handing off a player who was interfering with him. This compared to the other cases. Upsetting his family until 2 a.m. in the morning 2 days before the game. The GAA got 5 or 6 million on the backs of these amateurs the last two weeks. All infractions should be dealt with with 24 hours. 3 people with 2 ordinates."
Red card if somebody gets injured!! What are you smoking? When thinking of how to protect players, you don't wait for a player to be paralysed with a neck injury. Your argument is pathetic. If they change that rule now, the first child or adult to receive a serious injury would have every right to sue.

Break the rules repeatedly, let's change the rule. Are Waterford actually spending time on the training field targeting helmets, because they have done this three times. Everybody knows the rules and a man who must have rocks in his head considering the prior incidents breaks the same rule, so the rule is stupid? Cop yourself on.

The cccc have just proved what we all know for a long time. The GAA will continue to be deemed Mickey Mouse to other sports if they decide to implement rules to suit themselves.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 313 - 15/08/2017 23:08:49    2033949

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Replying To Canuck:  "O come on Galway man do not leave your great county down with bias. When it was Tadgh the rules were the rules and must be followed. Most posters. The linesman and officials have the call and their report must stand. Now when the rule says if the referee sees it o.k. (as is what occurred exactly with your man) there can be no further action we must ignore the rules. If his decision is correct is another debate.
Philip Mahony heard the ref saying get up, tie you strap, nothing here. He would now have to lie to reverse his decision. He is also not allowed review video but again the media playing its part by slowing down the action and guess what was the picture on rte site. The tail end of the slowed down video. I know of one sport where they look at slowed down video but take in to account actual speed."
There are two points here, 1/ if Galway did win & the two Gleesons were banned after all the media coverage, the win would be tainted, no body wants that, win it fair & square 2/ the banning of players in All Ireland finals is not a nice thing but in other sports it's accepted but in Gaa it's overturned & makes a mockery of the rules. In fairness Tuohy should also have been banned & in my opinion De Burca was harshly treated, it's the fact that there is so much inconsistency, not whether it's about W'ford or Galway & I have been consistent on that on this forum. This mess could have been avoided if Owens & the linesmen implemented the rules. Most people at this stage with Austin cleared would rather see Conor's card rescinded, the rules are already a mess at this point so why deny the lad his place in the final. It might force the Gaa to get off their ar#e & start to get their act together as this sideshow is detracting from the games & players, managers & fans deserve better. Without rules & consistent application of rules debacles such as this will run & run right down to club level & that is my problem with it.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 15/08/2017 23:14:17    2033952

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Reports have emerged this evening that referee James Owens has informed the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) that he is happy with how he officiated Sunday's semi-final at Croke Park, meaning the Mount Sion man will face no retribution for the incident between himself and Cork's Luke Meade.

Excuse me if I'm missing something here. But, if a player, say for example, wallops an opposition player in the face with his hurley. on camera; for the world to see. No action will be taken because the referee "has informed the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) that he is happy with how he officiated" the game?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2793 - 15/08/2017 23:34:07    2033959

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Replying To Mayonman:  "James Owens says he saw the Austin Gleeson incident. That implies he decided to ignore the rules of the game. I'd say Cork fans are particularly annoyed.

Should a referee face consequences for ignoring rules???

In my opinion yes. That is their sole function. Any ref can make a mistake bit to admit he saw it but did nothing??

Where does this end??"
That is the only interpretation of what the ref said - he failed to protect a player doesn't know the rules and shouldn't be a ref, yeah thats more or less what he admitted. It took the GAA three days to come up with this "technicality" they are creative all the same.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4954 - 15/08/2017 23:35:38    2033961

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The cccc have just proved what we all know for a long time. The GAA will continue to be deemed Mickey Mouse to other sports if they decide to implement rules to suit themselves.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts:82 - 15/08/2017 23:08:49 2033949

Sad, but true.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2793 - 15/08/2017 23:40:29    2033963

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I think people are forgetting that James Owens only got to see the incident in real time.
It's easy for us to watch the replay in slow motion and say it was an easy decision. Gleeson pulled the helmet off very quickly whilst getting up and looking the other way. IMO Owens probably saw a certain amount of the incident and because it happened so quickly with Gleeson looking the other way it probably looked accidental at the time.
I think the rule needs to be changed anyway as these incidents aren't black and white. Some interference with helmets can be minimal and others dangerous. Something like this : unintentional interference that's not dangerous = no red or yellow, intentional interference that's not deemed dangerous = yellow card and intentional interference deemed dangerous = red card.
At this time we don't know what the ref saw or didn't see so calling for his suspension is ridiculous

PullHard7 (Waterford) - Posts: 53 - 16/08/2017 01:56:40    2033988

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It's an absolute disgrace that he is cleared to play. This was the clearest instance of not only interfering with a helmet, but completely removing it. This thing about the referee having dealt with it is ridiculous. What's the point in having video evidence if you can't even use the video evidence when the referee is clearly shown to be wrong? The referee knew well that Gleeson interfered with the helmet and went out of his way to say he dealt with it just so the CCCC couldn't adjudicate on it. He should be banned from refereeing any future GAA games. And they wonder why people give out about referees when things like this continue to happen.

HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts: 220 - 16/08/2017 02:29:09    2033991

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Replying To PullHard7:  "I think people are forgetting that James Owens only got to see the incident in real time.
It's easy for us to watch the replay in slow motion and say it was an easy decision. Gleeson pulled the helmet off very quickly whilst getting up and looking the other way. IMO Owens probably saw a certain amount of the incident and because it happened so quickly with Gleeson looking the other way it probably looked accidental at the time.
I think the rule needs to be changed anyway as these incidents aren't black and white. Some interference with helmets can be minimal and others dangerous. Something like this : unintentional interference that's not dangerous = no red or yellow, intentional interference that's not deemed dangerous = yellow card and intentional interference deemed dangerous = red card.
At this time we don't know what the ref saw or didn't see so calling for his suspension is ridiculous"
Accepted that it was easy for him to make a genuine mistake in real time. No issue there.

But when he was presented with the footage to say he was happy with his decision??? That is when he had the opportunity to say he did not see all the detail (fingers gripping the guard and pulling etc). Because if he did see it at the time why was it not dealt with. You cannot have it both ways. He either did or he didn't see it.

This is about more than Austin Gleeson.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1922 - 16/08/2017 08:42:09    2034005

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "The cccc have just proved what we all know for a long time. The GAA will continue to be deemed Mickey Mouse to other sports if they decide to implement rules to suit themselves.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts:82 - 15/08/2017 23:08:49 2033949

Sad, but true."
The GAA for all its good is a disgrace when it comes to discipline and keeping to its own rules on this.

I thought we'd turned a corner when the CCC stuck to its guns on the Diarmuid Connelly issue earlier on in the year when all the might and wealth of Dublin CB were coming down on them and even with the Tadgh De Burca helmet issue, but with the blatant "turning of a blind eye" to the very obvious and straight forward helmet removal by Austin Gleeson for all to see, we get this fudge from Croke Park.

You can blame James Owens all you like, but he has been hung out to dry, (he's an amateur as well after all) by the procedures or lack off in the current mish-mash of committees and so forth. IMO he should have gotten a red during the game, no lose straps nonsense. His grip was well and truly stuck in the faceguard and pull off the lads head. End off.

All the same when you see how "justice" works in Irish society in general it's hardly surprising that the GAA is a mirror image of this laissez faire attitude..

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 16/08/2017 09:19:05    2034017

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Going by the two decisions on toughey and gleeson,the gaa are basically giving the two fingers to both rte and sky and their pundits.Games will be officiated by gaa personnel,no trial by video basically after a match no matter how damning the evidence.

cornetto (Galway) - Posts: 223 - 16/08/2017 09:34:23    2034020

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the decision on whether or not to suspend AG should have been taken out of the referees hands.it was catch 22 for him whether he was suspended or not.
gaa discipline is a mess,there should be 1 retrospective committee,or rugby style citing commissioner,to deal with these incidents,and 1 appeal.end.of.story.
very tough for james owens this week,he was damned if he did damned if he didnt.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 16/08/2017 10:04:06    2034032

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The GAA set the new precedent the minute Tuohy got off. There's no way Gleeson could be suspended for what turned out to be less dangerous than Tuohy's.
The rules will be rewritten over the winter similarly to the Nash rule (albeit that was mid season)

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 16/08/2017 10:05:41    2034033

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Replying To Canuck:  "Bad rule to begin with. Sets everyone up for a dirty kicking because there is no provision for severity of the foul. Simple a yellow card. However if the player is seriously injured and can not continue a red (that is automatic one game). If you really want to punish no return until the injured player is declared fit.

Gleeson's mule head behaviour as bad as it looked was not worse than other incidents in the game. No one injured like Kevin Moran. The belt in the testicles to Moran, the kicking of Barron and the hurley into Conor Gleeson's kidneys the reason for his tap on the legs to Horgan. However these have no sensational results for the pundits and t.v. replays.

Pundits need to adjust their behaviour because they are becoming annoying. It is fine to state why a player is getting sent off but refrain from adjudicating. These pundit were big names in the game with county bias and it is a lie to say that they have not influenced a hearing.

If Tadgh who never pulls a mean stroke was from Clare he should be very upset to how he was treated for handing off a player who was interfering with him. This compared to the other cases. Upsetting his family until 2 a.m. in the morning 2 days before the game. The GAA got 5 or 6 million on the backs of these amateurs the last two weeks. All infractions should be dealt with with 24 hours. 3 people with 2 ordinates."
The severity of injury to a player cannot dictate the colour of the card. Players can be seriously injured for small things and escape injury when seriously fouled. Injury and severity there of to the fouled player has zero to do with anything

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 16/08/2017 10:22:36    2034043

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There was a bit of hurling snobbery at the start of the year stating hurling had no need for a black card like the football.
The helmet rule is as big a farce or even more that the black card in football.
Austin Gleeson helmet grab was as clear cut as any I have seen and James Owens lost a lost of respect for himself not passing this to the CCCC.

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 16/08/2017 10:28:49    2034050

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The GAA will never publically suspend a ref and they are right. You have enough people on RTE etc hanging them out to dry and then hiding behind the 'I am only doing my job'.

If they deem they are issues with the way someone is reffing they simply will not appoint him to games.

And this is the right way to go.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 16/08/2017 10:43:24    2034065

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Replying To bloodyban:  "I think he should be given a medal for standing up for what's right and sensible. The rule is rubbish. No one deserves to be automatically sent off for pulling a helmet."
How is it a stupid rule, it's a highly dangerous action that can cause serious injury to a players neck. However do I agree that there does need to be some form of clarification brought in by the GAA, putting a closed fist onto a players helmet should be a yellow card, while yanking his helmet clean off his head off should be an automatic red, end of story. Don't care if it means that said player misses an All Ireland final, rules are rules, and this Irish rubbish that it would be terrible/awful for said player to miss the biggest game of his life needs to end, Austin Gleeson knew exactly what he was doing, not to mention that he likes to play on the edge, live by the sword, die by the sword.

gilly0512 (Galway) - Posts: 1176 - 16/08/2017 10:59:25    2034074

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