|
Replying To Pikeman96: "Yes, as Tadhg2020 says above - if the Garda report is "clean", then you should have no problem in becoming a citizen so long as you satisfy the other requirements too.
However, if it discloses one or more convictions of the type likely to lead to a committal to prison, then it becomes highly unlikely you'll be granted citizenship.
Barney seems to believe that many prisoners are people who originally come from other countries and who committed crime after first taking out citizenship here.
So my question remains: what does he think it is that makes these people who have been law-abiding for a minimum five years turn to crime and commit prison-worthy offences after they've been granted citizenship?" Whatever about Citizenship, there are a lot of serious crimes committed by non-citizens in recent years.
Now to be fair, the vast majority of immigrants are likely law abiding citizens, looking for a better life, but it would be foolish to ignore that serious criminals from other Countries are operating here too, so vetting must only apply in certain cases. Some could be Citizens of other EU Countries also.
Obviously the murder of Ashling Murphy in Tullamore shocked the Nation, and I know of several rape/assault cases in Letterkenny in the last 3 years involving foreign nationals, which shocked people locally.
I think recent resentment stems from those kind of horrifying cases, like a young woman walking home via Lower Main Street in Letterkenny who was dragged into an alleyway and brutally assaulted and raped, the perpetrator was caught nearby by Gardai with his clothes still covered in blood.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1782 - 22/04/2026 13:26:33
2667890
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Commodore: " Replying To Pikeman96: "Yes, as <b>Tadhg2020</b> says above - if the Garda report is "clean", then you should have no problem in becoming a citizen so long as you satisfy the other requirements too.
However, if it discloses one or more convictions of the type likely to lead to a committal to prison, then it becomes highly unlikely you'll be granted citizenship.
Barney seems to believe that many prisoners are people who originally come from other countries and who committed crime after first taking out citizenship here.
So my question remains: what does he think it is that makes these people who have been law-abiding for a minimum five years turn to crime and commit prison-worthy offences after they've been granted citizenship?"</div>Whatever about Citizenship, there are a lot of serious crimes committed by non-citizens in recent years.
Now to be fair, the vast majority of immigrants are likely law abiding citizens, looking for a better life, but it would be foolish to ignore that serious criminals from other Countries are operating here too, so vetting must only apply in certain cases. Some could be Citizens of other EU Countries also.
Obviously the murder of Ashling Murphy in Tullamore shocked the Nation, and I know of several rape/assault cases in Letterkenny in the last 3 years involving foreign nationals, which shocked people locally.
I think recent resentment stems from those kind of horrifying cases, like a young woman walking home via Lower Main Street in Letterkenny who was dragged into an alleyway and brutally assaulted and raped, the perpetrator was caught nearby by Gardai with his clothes still covered in blood." Wouldn't dispute any of that. I'm just tackling a particular assertion from Barney that files in the face of both statistics and logic. He's been quiet about it today. Maybe we'll hear from him tomorrow. But for what it's worth - you don't actually have to be vetted to be granted Irish residency. Some are, depending on particular circumstances, but more are not. And of course, many people in IPAS centres etc. haven't even been granted permanent residency yet. But commit a crime and be committed to prison at a time before or during when you've just got residency rather than citizenship, and you'll still be counted as a non-national in the prison population. However, you do have to be vetted to obtain citizenship. Minor offences may not disbar you from citizenship, but vetting is still a mandatory part of the process. No vetting = no citizenship. Barney's assertion remains that a significant portion of the prison population comprises people who were born elsewhere but who were granted citizenship before committing the crime that saw them sent to prison (and so they wouldn't be regarded as non-nationals in prison). In other words, people who were either completely law-abiding for at least five years, or who committed only a minor offence but who were judged unlikely to ever commit a more serious one, ended up committing more serious offences afterwards anyway. Of a sufficiently serious nature to see them jailed. My question to him remains what is it he thinks makes a good person turn bad after they've been granted Irish citizenship? Again - maybe we'll hear from him tomorrow.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3529 - 22/04/2026 23:36:20
2668005
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Commodore: "To become a citizen, you have to have lived here for a minimum of five years, and have a Garda report to say you were of good behaviour and character for all that time.
So, if these people have been perfectly law-abiding for at least five years, what do you think it is that makes them turn into criminals after they've been granted citizenship?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3501 - 21/04/2026 16:51:36
So if a immigrant or refugee is convicted of a crime during their initial 5 year period here, they cannot become an Irish Citizen?" Quite obviously not true from even from the court reports and what we know of one high profile offender who mainstream media claimed was 'Irish national.'
He had previous convictions both BEFORE and AFTER becoming a citizen. He also requires an interpreter in court despite living here for over 20 years!
Irish citizenship is ridiculously easy to obtain by international standards. Even Google will tell you that!
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4227 - 23/04/2026 07:59:10
2668012
Link
1
|
|
Replying To BarneyGrant: "UK born is a surprisingly small %. Look up the Census 2022 tables yourself. You can find almost what people have for their dinner.
People born to Irish parents in UK are obviously Irish by the way. Just as people born here to non Irish parents are culturally and in other ways not Irish." Asking again Barney, what was the percentage of UK born in 2022?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19302 - 23/04/2026 11:58:04
2668080
Link
0
|
|
Good man Barney. Take one case out of the more than 20,000 that are granted citizenship each year, and try use that to demolish all the facts and stats that are stacked up against you.
I don't know what case you're referring to. Maybe you'd let me know, or put up a link? If it really was so high-profile and widely-reported, am sure the mods here would have no issue with that.
By the way, when I type "is Irish citizenship easy to obtain?" into Google, here's what I get:
"Irish citizenship is relatively straightforward if you have Irish ancestry (descent), but it can be a long, strict process through naturalization, typically requiring five years of legal residency."
So yeah, it's relatively easy if e.g. you're the child or grandchild of somebody who emigrated from here, you were born wherever they emigrated to, and then you moved back to Ireland yourself.
Are you now suggesting that it's these "easy to get citizenship" people who are committing the crimes and being sent to prison? i.e. somebody born in England and who has an Irish granny is more likely to commit crime and be jailed after moving here, than somebody who has citizenship by actually being born here? Seems a strange one too. Would love to hear your theories.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3529 - 23/04/2026 12:37:48
2668098
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "Good man Barney. Take one case out of the more than 20,000 that are granted citizenship each year, and try use that to demolish all the facts and stats that are stacked up against you.
I don't know what case you're referring to. Maybe you'd let me know, or put up a link? If it really was so high-profile and widely-reported, am sure the mods here would have no issue with that.
By the way, when I type "is Irish citizenship easy to obtain?" into Google, here's what I get:
"Irish citizenship is relatively straightforward if you have Irish ancestry (descent), but it can be a long, strict process through naturalization, typically requiring five years of legal residency."
So yeah, it's relatively easy if e.g. you're the child or grandchild of somebody who emigrated from here, you were born wherever they emigrated to, and then you moved back to Ireland yourself.
Are you now suggesting that it's these "easy to get citizenship" people who are committing the crimes and being sent to prison? i.e. somebody born in England and who has an Irish granny is more likely to commit crime and be jailed after moving here, than somebody who has citizenship by actually being born here? Seems a strange one too. Would love to hear your theories." Facts are not stacked against me. One third from annual report of Prison Service is closer to the daily snapshot for one day chosen by you.
As were my stats on % of population born overseas and proportion of population growth - 90%! - down to immigration.
You obviously think this is a good thing? Why?
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4227 - 23/04/2026 13:42:54
2668118
Link
2
|
|
Barney - you say "One third from annual report of Prison Service is closer to the daily snapshot for one day chosen by you."
Please show where that report says that.
What it actually says is that 75.3% of committals to prison were Irish nationals. Simple maths shows that means 24.7% were non-nationals. Not one third.
Only mention of one third anywhere (other than by yourself) is in the self-proclaimed "good" estimate on Gript.
And even that refers to the number of committals, whereas your original claim here was that one third of the prison population were non-nationals.
I gave you the most up-to-date correct figures available for the actual prison population, from the same source (Irish Prison Service), and you now dismiss them as just "a daily snapshot" because of how they give such a lie to your own wildly erroneous claim.
Let's leave aside all talk of citizenship, how you seem to believe good people turn bad after getting it, and so on, and concentrate instead on how you're both confusing and conflating a number of different things. Do you still not see?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3529 - 23/04/2026 15:43:25
2668157
Link
2
|
|
https://www.rte.ie/news/crime/2026/0423/1569692-security-threats/
Watching the Six One news this evening, seen this report, couldn't help but wonder why ISIS members would be carrying out attacks in Ireland.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1782 - 23/04/2026 21:07:33
2668222
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "Barney - you say "One third from annual report of Prison Service is closer to the daily snapshot for one day chosen by you."
Please show where that report says that.
What it actually says is that 75.3% of committals to prison were Irish nationals. Simple maths shows that means 24.7% were non-nationals. Not one third.
Only mention of one third anywhere (other than by yourself) is in the self-proclaimed "good" estimate on Gript.
And even that refers to the number of committals, whereas your original claim here was that one third of the prison population were non-nationals.
I gave you the most up-to-date correct figures available for the actual prison population, from the same source (Irish Prison Service), and you now dismiss them as just "a daily snapshot" because of how they give such a lie to your own wildly erroneous claim.
Let's leave aside all talk of citizenship, how you seem to believe good people turn bad after getting it, and so on, and concentrate instead on how you're both confusing and conflating a number of different things. Do you still not see?" Whether its 33.33% or or 24.7% of prisoners who are non-nationals, you must admit that both percentages are very high.
However I understand that a high proportion of those could be EU citizens, who are free to travel and live here.
Personally I would be more concerned with a high number of Irish people with over 100 previous convictions who are constantly committing crimes, such as a man in court in Donegal this week with 179 previous convictions. If that guy got 3 months in jail for every conviction, he would spend just over 44 years in Jail.
He basically goes around the Countryside robbing other people, only gets caught every now and again, gets a fine, maybe 6 months in jail, with 3-4 months suspended, and is back in business. Fianna Fail and Fine Gael seem incapable of dealing with these types of characters, I am aware of at least 5 cases since October in Donegal, where the court defendant had over 100 previous convictions, got off light.
RTE news last night was on about how Ireland is at risk of Lone Wolf ISIS attacks, I was confused as to how or why they would attack Ireland?
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1782 - 24/04/2026 09:43:56
2668278
Link
0
|
|
25% of prisoners in Ireland are not from Ireland? Dear me, I used to dream of moving back to Ireland one day, but it's now just another globalist industrial estate that exits to squeeze the life out of the people trying to live a life in peace.
dolfos (Longford) - Posts: 151 - 24/04/2026 10:04:52
2668285
Link
1
|
|
@Commodore - the actual figure of 24.7% might seem high all right, but when you consider how the latest Eurostat data says 23.3% of the general population are non-nationals, it's actually in line with what you'd expect.
Just as if 10% of the population is from Cork, you'd expect roughly 10% of prison committals to be people from Cork. Or if 10% of the population is left-handed, you'd expect roughly 10% of prison committals to involve left-handed people.
The issue is Barney taking that 24.7% figure, turning it into a significantly larger 33% based on nothing more than a self-proclaimed "good" estimate by Gript, and then using it for a different thing where the real figure according to the most recent official data is just 18.6%
FWIW, fully share your concerns with how so many repeat offenders continue to be dealt with so leniently, but that's a whole other issue.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3529 - 24/04/2026 11:13:53
2668311
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "@Commodore - the actual figure of 24.7% might seem high all right, but when you consider how the latest Eurostat data says 23.3% of the general population are non-nationals, it's actually in line with what you'd expect.
Just as if 10% of the population is from Cork, you'd expect roughly 10% of prison committals to be people from Cork. Or if 10% of the population is left-handed, you'd expect roughly 10% of prison committals to involve left-handed people.
The issue is Barney taking that 24.7% figure, turning it into a significantly larger 33% based on nothing more than a self-proclaimed "good" estimate by Gript, and then using it for a different thing where the real figure according to the most recent official data is just 18.6%
FWIW, fully share your concerns with how so many repeat offenders continue to be dealt with so leniently, but that's a whole other issue." Actually, since most non-nationals traveling here generally do so for jobs, a better life or to escape persecution, I would expect that percentage of prisoners that are non-nationals to be significantly lower than the national average.
I would assume the vast majority of that percentage have to be EU nationals who moved here, as by the sounds of it, Immigrant vetting wouldn't allow serious criminals in.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1782 - 24/04/2026 14:18:29
2668360
Link
0
|
|
Replying To dolfos: "25% of prisoners in Ireland are not from Ireland? Dear me, I used to dream of moving back to Ireland one day, but it's now just another globalist industrial estate that exits to squeeze the life out of the people trying to live a life in peace." The biggest concern is those Irish nationals running around the Countryside committing endless crimes, whether its theft, assault, traffic violations, fraud or even worst. Curiously the Government doesn't seem to be willing to tackle this crime.
How can somebody with over 179 previous convictions be allowed to roam the streets within weeks of their most recent conviction.
Anyone with over previous 100 convictions, should be automatically getting 20 years in prison, no early parole for their next serious conviction. By serious, I don't mean forgetting to pay TV License or parking fine, I'm talking theft, assault or things of that nature. And they should fully owe the state for the cost of their incarceration, which can be taken out of their personal property.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1782 - 24/04/2026 14:21:13
2668363
Link
0
|