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Replying To updwell:  "Ut wasn't thrown away, it was given to Ukraine to support them against fascists."
And how's that going for them? Its just throwing good money after bad. Imagine what €125 million could have done for our own defense or our Gardai? Remember Zelenski and Co aren't worrying about you and me.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2620 - 07/12/2025 20:20:53    2647384

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Replying To Viking66:  "So Trump deserves credit for caving in to Putins demands? Like Lloyd George did for caving in to Carson and Craig's demands? Or Collins for that matter?"
the 26 counties "caved in" I suppose. Can you name one demand that Trump "caved in" on ?
you may be right but please edify

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1248 - 07/12/2025 20:58:29    2647391

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "the 26 counties "caved in" I suppose. Can you name one demand that Trump "caved in" on ?
you may be right but please edify"
Putin wants the Donbas. Trump agreed to that in his provisional plan.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17718 - 07/12/2025 21:50:59    2647402

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Replying To Bon:  "And how's that going for them? Its just throwing good money after bad. Imagine what €125 million could have done for our own defense or our Gardai? Remember Zelenski and Co aren't worrying about you and me."
Well everyone thought the Russians would overrun Ukraine in a month and 3 years later they've barely moved forward and when they do it's at the expense of thousands of Russians. As regards Zelenski not worrying about us on the contrary if the Russians aren't stopped now they will continue to roll westward and some day all of Europe will have to face up to Putin and we will need the help then.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 922 - 07/12/2025 21:54:45    2647404

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Replying To Viking66:  "Putin wants the Donbas. Trump agreed to that in his provisional plan."
The Donbas corridor is the gateway to the Crimea, hence the annexation. It's a horrible war that needs to end.
Maybe Kamala Harris would have fixed it by now, hardly.
Look, peace to all during this season and best in 2026.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1248 - 08/12/2025 10:31:41    2647436

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "Not a huge Trump fan, but I don't have Trump derangement syndrome like most of the fools on here.
Give credit when it's due."
What does Trump deserve credit for?

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11831 - 08/12/2025 11:10:27    2647446

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Replying To updwell:  "Well everyone thought the Russians would overrun Ukraine in a month and 3 years later they've barely moved forward and when they do it's at the expense of thousands of Russians. As regards Zelenski not worrying about us on the contrary if the Russians aren't stopped now they will continue to roll westward and some day all of Europe will have to face up to Putin and we will need the help then."
I'm always amazed when I see people repeat this line, much peddled by NATO hawks and others who have a vested interest in unending war, without seeing the contradictions in it.

So at the outbreak of war Russia had roughly 5 times the population of Ukraine and let's say 5 times greater military might, hardware and personnel. But 3.5 years later, "they've barely moved forward" as you rightly claim. In linear warfare terms (which is the standard by which all commentators in the West including NATO judge how it is going) that is clearly failure and a sign of Russian weakness. Yet as the hawks will say, "if they (Russia) are not stopped now they will continue to roll westward". Ukraine is a non-nuclear power without an Article 5 guarantee. So where will Russia roll westward? The Baltic states have an Article 5 guarantee so they are safe even if psychologically they think they aren't. Moldova? To go there they would have to conquer and pacify the whole of Ukraine which is more than they are capable of doing and Putin is aware of that. The 4 oblasts Russia is claiming have a majority Russian speaking population and could be incorporated into the Russian state without too much trouble but if they conquered the rest of Ukraine it would be a thorn in Russia's side for decades to come.
Russia may have a more battle-hardened army but whatever settlement is reached and whatever "victory" they will achieve will come at an enormous price. They had a population imbalance pre-war which will be greatly exascerbated now with their military casualty figures, and because of being overstretched military they have lost their sphere of influence in Syria and the Middle East. They have been forced into a situation where they have had to become best friends with India and China in particular and basically become subservient to the latter rather than an equal partner. While they'd be satisfied if achieving their war aims, they'll have enough wound-licking to do for at least another generation before they could even be in a position to think about "rolling further westward."

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2109 - 08/12/2025 12:58:51    2647470

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "Not a huge Trump fan, but I don't have Trump derangement syndrome like most of the fools on here.
Give credit when it's due."
What did Trump do? He is bending over backwords to keep Russia on side.

Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 810 - 08/12/2025 13:23:44    2647476

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "I'm always amazed when I see people repeat this line, much peddled by NATO hawks and others who have a vested interest in unending war, without seeing the contradictions in it.

So at the outbreak of war Russia had roughly 5 times the population of Ukraine and let's say 5 times greater military might, hardware and personnel. But 3.5 years later, "they've barely moved forward" as you rightly claim. In linear warfare terms (which is the standard by which all commentators in the West including NATO judge how it is going) that is clearly failure and a sign of Russian weakness. Yet as the hawks will say, "if they (Russia) are not stopped now they will continue to roll westward". Ukraine is a non-nuclear power without an Article 5 guarantee. So where will Russia roll westward? The Baltic states have an Article 5 guarantee so they are safe even if psychologically they think they aren't. Moldova? To go there they would have to conquer and pacify the whole of Ukraine which is more than they are capable of doing and Putin is aware of that. The 4 oblasts Russia is claiming have a majority Russian speaking population and could be incorporated into the Russian state without too much trouble but if they conquered the rest of Ukraine it would be a thorn in Russia's side for decades to come.
Russia may have a more battle-hardened army but whatever settlement is reached and whatever "victory" they will achieve will come at an enormous price. They had a population imbalance pre-war which will be greatly exascerbated now with their military casualty figures, and because of being overstretched military they have lost their sphere of influence in Syria and the Middle East. They have been forced into a situation where they have had to become best friends with India and China in particular and basically become subservient to the latter rather than an equal partner. While they'd be satisfied if achieving their war aims, they'll have enough wound-licking to do for at least another generation before they could even be in a position to think about "rolling further westward.""
Well said

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1950 - 08/12/2025 13:55:56    2647488

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