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Replying To Goreylad1985:  "Donegal was one of those pro-Treaty voting counties though..
Majority of TD's in Donegal sided with the Treaty.
The IRA in the county at the time of the Truce/Civil War went overwhelmingly majority pro-Treaty.
Even the Sinn Fein in Donegal was pro-Treaty."
It was, but that doesn't make them right and for the record, my family were (and still are) anti-treaty and viewed those pro-Treaty TDs as traitors provided the British with the electoral vindication they needed to partition the Island and back for over a Century, isolating our fellow Countrymen.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1918 - 21/07/2026 15:42:40    2686505

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Replying To Commodore:  "It was, but that doesn't make them right and for the record, my family were (and still are) anti-treaty and viewed those pro-Treaty TDs as traitors provided the British with the electoral vindication they needed to partition the Island and back for over a Century, isolating our fellow Countrymen."
All history over 100 years ago.

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 784 - 21/07/2026 19:10:36    2686530

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Replying To Seanfan:  "All history over 100 years ago."
It doesn't matter how long ago it was, we are still dealing with the repercussions of their actions today, its a live issue.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1918 - 22/07/2026 13:05:08    2686597

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Replying To Seanfan:  "All history over 100 years ago."
It's a case of " I'm all right Jack" for some.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2898 - 22/07/2026 14:09:25    2686605

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Replying To Seanfan:  "All history over 100 years ago."
It is not all history. The fact that the country is almost and increasingly completely dependent on overseas companies and workers and is no closer to reviving our language than 100 years ago is directly due to not securing full independence in 1921.

Of course there was no M50 and iPhones in 1921 so we should should up and be grateful :-)

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4503 - 22/07/2026 15:52:35    2686628

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "It is not all history. The fact that the country is almost and increasingly completely dependent on overseas companies and workers and is no closer to reviving our language than 100 years ago is directly due to not securing full independence in 1921.

Of course there was no M50 and iPhones in 1921 so we should should up and be grateful :-)"
Ah stop!!

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 784 - 22/07/2026 20:29:02    2686658

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Replying To Commodore:  "It doesn't matter how long ago it was, we are still dealing with the repercussions of their actions today, its a live issue."
And of the democratic treaty was not passed the war would have got much worse and it's likely many of us wouldn't be alive today as events and history changed.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 12218 - 23/07/2026 08:01:51    2686688

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Replying To yew_tree:  "And of the democratic treaty was not passed the war would have got much worse and it's likely many of us wouldn't be alive today as events and history changed."
No it wouldn't, Ireland (32 Counties) in 1918 General Election had already produced a clear 73/105 democratic majority that wanted independence by that stage. How could Britain conduct a terrible war on a Country that had just democratically showed its vast wish for independence?

1922 Treaty was really to give legitimacy to partition, to justify splitting the Country.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1918 - 23/07/2026 15:13:14    2686787

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Replying To Commodore:  "No it wouldn't, Ireland (32 Counties) in 1918 General Election had already produced a clear 73/105 democratic majority that wanted independence by that stage. How could Britain conduct a terrible war on a Country that had just democratically showed its vast wish for independence?

1922 Treaty was really to give legitimacy to partition, to justify splitting the Country."
They may have well been voting on the moon for it because no matter what happened the Unionists were never going to be forced into a united Ireland and anyone who thinks otherwise has no understand of what happed over those years. No treaty or war was going to change that (it was a war that would never have been won, in the same way the IRA waged a war that could never be won). If that was not bad enough the free state went about proving everything the unionists had said - home rule - Rome rule - watching Testimony should remind anyone of the reality of what was created in the Free State and why that just further reinforced the attitudes of those who the majority would seek to have rule over.
Arguments about what happened or should have happened over 100 years ago will not change anything. If you want a united Ireland you need to forget all of that and focus on what will convince the people of NI that being united is the best way forward.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2224 - 23/07/2026 19:41:58    2686842

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Replying To zinny:  "They may have well been voting on the moon for it because no matter what happened the Unionists were never going to be forced into a united Ireland and anyone who thinks otherwise has no understand of what happed over those years. No treaty or war was going to change that (it was a war that would never have been won, in the same way the IRA waged a war that could never be won). If that was not bad enough the free state went about proving everything the unionists had said - home rule - Rome rule - watching Testimony should remind anyone of the reality of what was created in the Free State and why that just further reinforced the attitudes of those who the majority would seek to have rule over.
Arguments about what happened or should have happened over 100 years ago will not change anything. If you want a united Ireland you need to forget all of that and focus on what will convince the people of NI that being united is the best way forward."
That is what Fine Gael members have been telling themselves for over 100 years, to cope with the fact that they betrayed a group of their fellow Countrymen for their selfish partial freedom. Also the fact that most ROI Unionists and their descendants tend to be FG members or voters (block vote) probably contributes to that pro-British historical narrative.

The truth is more simplistic, Ireland as a single state democratically voted by a clear 70% majority for independence in 1918. Regardless of how much a Unionist minority huffed, puffed and burned stuff, the Country had voted by a landslide. Voting in January 1922 for that Treaty provided the British Government and Unionists with the legal framework to formally partition six Counties, as Irish TDs had now voted in favour of it.

The influence of the RC church in the decades that followed on ROI policy and institutions was terrible, but that is a different debate. I will say though that its similar to Protestant ideology influence on British and Unionist governance, and all of them perpetrated horrendous abuse in a wide variety of ways and most escaped conviction.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1918 - 24/07/2026 12:09:33    2686899

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Replying To Commodore:  "That is what Fine Gael members have been telling themselves for over 100 years, to cope with the fact that they betrayed a group of their fellow Countrymen for their selfish partial freedom. Also the fact that most ROI Unionists and their descendants tend to be FG members or voters (block vote) probably contributes to that pro-British historical narrative.

The truth is more simplistic, Ireland as a single state democratically voted by a clear 70% majority for independence in 1918. Regardless of how much a Unionist minority huffed, puffed and burned stuff, the Country had voted by a landslide. Voting in January 1922 for that Treaty provided the British Government and Unionists with the legal framework to formally partition six Counties, as Irish TDs had now voted in favour of it.

The influence of the RC church in the decades that followed on ROI policy and institutions was terrible, but that is a different debate. I will say though that its similar to Protestant ideology influence on British and Unionist governance, and all of them perpetrated horrendous abuse in a wide variety of ways and most escaped conviction."
All in the past.
Future starts now.
Get on with it.

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 784 - 24/07/2026 12:33:16    2686908

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Replying To Seanfan:  "All in the past.
Future starts now.
Get on with it."
That sounds like something Government TDs say if asked about the Children's hospital spending or the Leinster House bicycle shed spending. That mindset is why they never learn from past mistakes.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1918 - 24/07/2026 14:34:05    2686929

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